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Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Mets – Willets Point Jun 16 2015 09:43 AM

Which for the Cardinals may involve hacking into the player personnel databases of the Astros, according to an investigation by the FBI

seawolf17 Jun 16 2015 09:55 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Edgy MD Jun 16 2015 09:56 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I like how the photo implicates John Jay and Daniel Descalso. John Jay's totally a hacker.

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 09:59 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

It amuses me that the way they 'hacked' them was that Luhnow used the same passwords he used with the Cardinals. I'm not even sure that counts as hacking. It's almost like permissible access. If we live together, and you move out to a new place and put a lock on the door so that you don't have to use a different key to get in, if I enter that house with my key, is it really trespassing?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 16 2015 10:11 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Yes, and let's not destroy another thread arguing about sketchy interpretations of what's legal, ethical or sportsmanlike. Sounds like the Cardinals are caught "red' handed.

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 10:19 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yes, and let's not destroy another thread arguing about sketchy interpretations of what's legal, ethical or sportsmanlike. Sounds like the Cardinals are caught "red' handed. clearly, that's for a jury of their peers to decide. Anyway, it's still not hacking. That word is overused and doesn't really mean "Grab an advantage, often by illegal means"

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 10:19 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yes, and let's not destroy another thread arguing about sketchy interpretations of what's legal, ethical or sportsmanlike. Wan't this one your idea? [fimg=555]http://nicolelorenz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Simpsons-walk-in-walk-out-whistling.gif[/fimg]

Frayed Knot Jun 16 2015 10:23 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Anyway, it's still not hacking. That word is overused and doesn't really mean "Grab an advantage, often by illegal means" You're kidding, right? Yes of course it needs to be proven first, but the investigation is looking at: "front-office personnel for the Cardinals ... hacked into internal networks of a rival team to steal closely guarded information about player personnel. Investigators have uncovered evidence that Cardinals officials broke into a network of the Houston Astros that housed special databases the team had built, according to law enforcement officials. Internal discussions about trades, proprietary statistics and scouting reports were compromised, the officials said." Let's not pretend that, **IF TRUE**, this isn't hacking, it wasn't to grab an advantage, and it wasn't illegal.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 10:36 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: If we live together, and you move out to a new place and put a lock on the door so that you don't have to use a different key to get in, if I enter that house with my key, is it really trespassing?

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 10:37 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in?

SteveJRogers Jun 16 2015 10:40 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: It amuses me that the way they 'hacked' them was that Luhnow used the same passwords he used with the Cardinals. I'm not even sure that counts as hacking. It's almost like permissible access. If we live together, and you move out to a new place and put a lock on the door so that you don't have to use a different key to get in, if I enter that house with my key, is it really trespassing? If there is no discernible reason for you to be there, or lack of viable consent (even a nebulous open invitation and/or letting your ex-roomie know you are there when he/she isn't there at the time), then yeah, that is pretty much trespassing and very shady behavior.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 10:41 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in? You're welcome here, you're not welcome to stroll around the Astros network willy nilly because you may happen to know a password or two.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 10:42 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yes, and let's not destroy another thread arguing about sketchy interpretations of what's legal, ethical or sportsmanlike. Ooops

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 10:43 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I"m not arguing legality anyway, I'm arguing the meaning of the word 'hack'.

SteveJRogers Jun 16 2015 10:44 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in? If you are logging into an account you didn't create without their consent (or even using it when someone leaves the account open on a computer), then yes, that is hacking. If you created an OptimisticMetFan account or your handle as your real name, that isn't hacking.

SteveJRogers Jun 16 2015 10:48 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: I"m not arguing legality anyway, I'm arguing the meaning of the word 'hack'. So we're into the semantics of the word hack? Then what would you call it then? I've seen people use that word to describe it when a co-worker, or family member uses their account on an open computer to embarrass and even troll them in some fashion on whatever board or social network site, etc that happens to be open.

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 10:49 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

SteveJRogers wrote: it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in? If you are logging into an account you didn't create without their consent (or even using it when someone leaves the account open on a computer), then yes, that is hacking. If you created an OptimisticMetFan account or your handle as your real name, that isn't hacking. bah, diluting the word. If I sit down at your computer and type into your open CPF window that's "hacking"? really? The Plague: Our recent unknown intruder penetrated using the superuser account, giving him access to our whole system. Margo: Precisely what you're paid to prevent. The Plague: Someone didn't bother reading my carefully prepared memo on commonly-used passwords. Now, then, as I so meticulously pointed out, the four most-used passwords are: love, sex, secret, and... Margo: [glares at The Plague] The Plague: god. So, would your holiness care to change her password?

Edgy MD Jun 16 2015 10:52 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in? Sometimes I wonder.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 10:52 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Well the FBI used both the word hacked and the phrase broke into... sounds pretty criminal to me. Jeez Alou.

SteveJRogers Jun 16 2015 10:53 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

What would you'd like to call it then? And this isn't THAT particular situation, but it has been used to describe such a situation.

Frayed Knot Jun 16 2015 10:57 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: it's not hacking. using passwords to access data on databases is not hacking. Do I hack the CPF every time I log in? The CPF is not part of "special databases the team had built [to house] internal discussions about trades, proprietary statistics and scouting reports" Even if I'm dumb enough to leave my keys on the front seat of my car with the windows open that doesn't mean you're free to go around joy-riding in it simply because it wasn't properly protected.

SteveJRogers Jun 16 2015 10:57 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Someone finds the Ceetar account password, and then trolls the forum with porn spam, insulting posts about other posters, etc. Then gets your account shut down by the admins are you going to say "that wasn't a hack job" just because you don't like the definition of the word?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 10:58 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

[fimg=444]https://copywriterscrucible.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/common-thread.jpg[/fimg] [fimg=444]http://primitivemommy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/jump.jpg[/fimg]

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 11:12 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

SteveJRogers wrote: Someone finds the Ceetar account password, and then trolls the forum with porn spam, insulting posts about other posters, etc. Then gets your account shut down by the admins are you going to say "that wasn't a hack job" just because you don't like the definition of the word? 'hack job' is a different definition of the word. anyway, imo (And a lot of other peoples) if the process doesn't involve manipulating code or data configurations, it's not a hack. If you run a brute force algorithm (or even a shoddy guesswork one in your head) to guess my password, that's a hack. If you just pick up my already logged in phone, you're doing something else. I don't know what the best word for it is. If I connect wires to hotwire your car to steal it, that's one thing. If you leave it running in the parking lot and I drive off, I still stole it, but I didn't hotwire it.

Gwreck Jun 16 2015 11:20 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

We are all dumber for having read this. 23 posts later, the Cardinals are still douchebags. Sidenote: Jeff Luhnow is apparently an idiot as well.

Mets – Willets Point Jun 16 2015 11:45 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Gwreck wrote: We are all dumber for having read this. 23 posts later, the Cardinals are still douchebags. Sidenote: Jeff Luhnow is apparently an idiot as well. Excellent executive summary for this thread.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2015 11:56 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Gwreck wrote: We are all dumber for having read this. I only skimmed it and I feel like I've lost about a dozen IQ points.

Ceetar Jun 16 2015 12:21 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I apologize for daring to make people think and questioning things. poor hack by me. I just happen to find hacking, and the idea of intellectual property as it pertains to programming particularly interesting. I'm wondering to myself if the use of the same passwords suggests the use of other things as well. Config files, database design, etc. The Cardinal employees illegally obtaining information is clearly a crime, but it certainly seems possible that the Astros are guilty of stealing intellectual property as well. Even if you rewrite a design exactly the same as something else, it's still going to be stealing. And if he copied code onto, and then off of, a personal laptop it's even more clear cut. Depending, on course, on his contract with the Cardinals, which almost assuredly didn't say "Anything Ludnow creates while here is his property alone."

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 12:24 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I wish it was the Yankees that got caught hackin'... but the high and mighty Cardinals are a close enough second on a slow news day.

seawolf17 Jun 16 2015 02:26 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Can we get back to the matter at hand? I propose that they strip the Cardinals of everything going back to the end of the eighth inning, Game 7 NCLS 2006 and force them to replay it from there.

Lefty Specialist Jun 16 2015 02:32 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

If only we could have hacked into Adam Wainwright's arm.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 16 2015 02:37 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

This is a big deal, sorta. I mean, the feds are involved. I'm not sure how they will be dealt with by MLB but ought to be harsher than whatever the NFL did to show how tough they are on serious crimes like [crossout:saocao54]murder[/crossout:saocao54][crossout:saocao54]wife beating[/crossout:saocao54] ball inflation.

Edgy MD Jun 16 2015 02:49 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

It's interesting that the Feds cannot provide antitrust oversight, because baseball doesn't involve interstate commerce, but can police this. I think we need to change our baseball language. Keep the humiliation in the front of the conversation. "And Denorfia hacked into that offering from Hernandez like a spurned Cardinals executive going after proprietary information." "Man, Hamilton swiped that base like a Houston password." Ronny and Gary, moreso than Keith, have totally pushed that Cardinals-are-a-model-organization angle. Here's hoping they throw Fredbird under the bus tonight.

Vic Sage Jun 16 2015 03:06 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Lefty Specialist wrote: If only we could have hacked into Adam Wainwright's arm. if only we could have hacked it off.

Mets – Willets Point Jun 16 2015 03:23 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Since they're investigating FIFA and the Cardinals in the same month, I'm becoming an FBI fanboi.

TransMonk Jun 16 2015 04:21 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

And one from old Shea...

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 06:17 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This is a big deal, sorta. I mean, the feds are involved. I'm not sure how they will be dealt with by MLB but ought to be harsher than whatever the NFL did to show how tough they are on serious crimes like [crossout]murder[/crossout][crossout]wife beating[/crossout] ball inflation. Based on what was posted in the Jeff Wilpon/Leigh Castergine thrad, I know that a lot of you forum members think that MLB should butt out and do nothing here, because, according to youse, it's none of baseball's business unless it happens on the field and also, because the law enforcement penalty would be enough punishment.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 06:32 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I know that a lot of you forum members think No, you think you know hahahaha. There is a huge difference.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 06:40 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

d'Kong76 wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: I know that a lot of you forum members think No, you think you know hahahaha. There is a huge difference. I know what I'm talking about. You, on the other hand, are a fucking idiot and I doubt you could even read and comprehend that thread. Go fuck yourself.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 06:46 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

No reason to get mean. You are the one that posts and separates yourself from everyone as the great knower of all or whatever. I have to answer occasionally because you lump a large portion of the posters here into a basket that doesn't exist.

Edgy MD Jun 16 2015 06:58 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

There's not a lot of rules here. There's like one. Please don't be breaking it.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 07:07 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

For reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22439&hilit=Leigh+Castergine

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 07:11 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 16 2015 07:15 PM

d'Kong76 wrote: No reason to get mean. You are the one that posts and separates yourself from everyone as the great knower of all or whatever. I have to answer occasionally because you lump a large portion of the posters here into a basket that doesn't exist. So you're sticking up for those who shouldn't be lumped into whatever basket I was talking about. I see. Even though, of course, you didn't come to my defense in that Castergine thread against those that should be "in the basket". And you also think that because I used the word "fuck" and you didn't, my post was mean, but yours wasn't. And now the new thing is that I think I know more than everyone about everything. Did you come to that independently, or are you just copying what JCL wrote, because it was a knock on me?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 16 2015 07:14 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Edgy MD wrote: There's not a lot of rules here. There's like one. Please don't be breaking it. What rule are you talking about? The one where this scumbag stalks and hounds me for eight years running, pretty much since the day I joined this place, unimpeded and unrestrained, taking subtle and not so subtle personal shots at me, and when I give it back to him, like one out of every ten or twenty shots, you put on that fucking moderator's hat and tell me, and only me, to cool it? 'Cause that rule, I know real good. And don't bother making a red light thread out of this exchange. I'm done responding. You have my word.

d'Kong76 Jun 16 2015 07:18 PM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Unbelievable and really quite unnecessary. All of it.

seawolf17 Jun 17 2015 07:26 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Getting back on topic AGAIN... ...they were obviously talking about this on the broadcast last night, and my wife was surprised that they were concerned about baseball ramifications when there could be legal, "imprisonable" ramifications. And she's right, but baseball has no control over that. They do have control over the baseball ramifications (loss of draft picks, fines, having Yadier Molina drawn and quartered, etc.) although I read that MLB will wait for the FBI to do its thing first. And this is nothing like the Patriots, because that was breaking league rules, which the NFL has control over, not laws.

Lefty Specialist Jun 17 2015 07:34 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Best reaction so far: Brandon McCarthy ?@BMcCarthy32 19 hours ago in keeping with baseball tradition, a Houston exec should walk into the STL offices and hit their best front office guy with a fastball.

d'Kong76 Jun 17 2015 07:51 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Right now, I'm more interested in the Feds correcting Ceetar and telling him that there was indeed some hacking going on!

Edgy MD Jun 17 2015 07:54 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Oh, Godgodgod don't wave the red flag!!

Ceetar Jun 17 2015 08:06 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

d'Kong76 wrote: Right now, I'm more interested in the Feds correcting Ceetar and telling him that there was indeed some hacking going on! oh yeah, right, like the FBI is the expert on terminology?

Mets – Willets Point Jun 17 2015 08:37 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

seawolf17 wrote: having Yadier Molina drawn and quartered "The Mets promotional calendar for 2016 includes a pre-game ceremony in which Yadier Molina will be flayed behind home plate at Citi Field. Special guest appearance by Iwan Rheon."

Ceetar Jun 17 2015 08:38 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Mets – Willets Point wrote: seawolf17 wrote: having Yadier Molina drawn and quartered "The Mets promotional calendar for 2016 includes a pre-game ceremony in which Yadier Molina will be flayed behind home plate at Citi Field. Special guest appearance by Iwan Rheon." and because most MLB teams share promotional ideas/vendors, this will happen ~20 times next year.

MFS62 Jun 17 2015 08:41 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I long for the good old days, when a hack was a taxicab. Later

seawolf17 Jun 17 2015 09:38 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: seawolf17 wrote: having Yadier Molina drawn and quartered "The Mets promotional calendar for 2016 includes a pre-game ceremony in which Yadier Molina will be flayed behind home plate at Citi Field. Special guest appearance by Iwan Rheon." and because most MLB teams share promotional ideas/vendors, this will happen ~20 times next year. Actually, I think that would be an appropriate punishment.

Mets – Willets Point Jun 17 2015 10:53 AM Re: Always Classy and Doing Things The Right Way

I wish I'd thought of this headline: The Best Breach in Baseball.