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My perverse wish

Lefty Specialist Jun 21 2015 01:06 PM

Hey, it's Father's Day, so I can have what I want. (Happy Birthday to all you Fathers out there, by the way.) My perverse wish? A 12-game losing streak. It's got to be one game longer than the winning streak, for emphasis. Because as long as the Mets are playing peek-a-boo with the Nats for first place and treading water a little above .500 they're going to stand pat, not just at the trade deadline, but in the offseason, too. ("Hey, we'll be adding Wheeler and Wright, that's like trading for two All-Stars!") A 12-game losing streak now will put an end to that foolishness at least in the eyes of the beat writers, Terry and Sandy and Jeffy's true constituency. Because to stay on this path just portends more pain in the future. You can't assemble this kind of a pitching staff and this kind of offense and defense. It's just ridiculous. But there's no impact player coming, no Hernandez or Carter or Piazza unless it's made so perfectly obvious that 'The Plan', such as it is, isn't going to work. What will work? Well, to begin with, you have to identify your problem. This team is playing defense that a bunch of eighth graders would be ashamed of. I've seen more brain farts this year than Rick Perry on a bad day. And this is not only because you have the wrong players playing positions, although that's a big part of it. Why does Grandy play right and Cuddyer left? Why do you play Ruben Tejada at third and Flores at short? You can have 5 Tom Seavers on the pitching staff but it won't matter if your defense can't catch the ball or turn double plays. Steven Matz is more than ready to come up, but why should he? He'd just lose 2-0 on two unearned runs. This doesn't even get to the offense. Nobody on this team can hit consistently. No one. There's a manager who's also prone to brain farts, who plays his favorites, overworks what little bullpen he has and generally just needs to go. There's a front office who lies when you can even figure out what they're saying. I'm guessing d'Arnaud will be out for more than a few days and David Wright won't be back by the All-Star break, just to name two things. I could go on. I think Wilmer Flores needs to be traded to a team that will put him at second base and let him play, for instance. And they need to get some real professional hitters and defenders, not the Cuddyers and Grandersons of the world. That'll require a commitment on the part of ownership that you and I both know is completely lacking. So they need to be embarrassed. They've got a 4-game head start. Let's see 8 more ion a row. Yeah, I'm just venting, but I'm tired of half-assed baseball. Rant over, please put your seat backs and tray tables in their upright and locked position in preparation for landing.

Edgy MD Jun 21 2015 02:47 PM Re: My perverse wish

Yeah, that's perverse.

d'Kong76 Jun 21 2015 03:17 PM Re: My perverse wish

Good rant, and rants are good sometimes. Rooting against the Mets in a game (for whatever the reason, let alone the next eight games) does not compute. Especially thinking it may prompt things to change or be dif- ferent as a result.

Edgy MD Jun 21 2015 04:15 PM Re: My perverse wish

I certainly support rooting for your organization to improve the team. But I don't think imploding is the way forward. They may be restrained, but they aren't dummies that will suddenly realize something twelve losses down the road. More likely, they'd deal themselves out after such a slide. HEY A HIT!!!!

dgwphotography Jun 21 2015 04:19 PM Re: My perverse wish

I was perversely wishing for them to be no hit again.

Lefty Specialist Jun 21 2015 04:45 PM Re: My perverse wish

Well, I've found that my rooting for them one way or the other has no effect on their actual performance. But their actual performance has an effect on my blood pressure. As they have one frickin hit through seven innings.

TransMonk Jun 21 2015 06:09 PM Re: My perverse wish

I don't need a 12 game losing streak to show me that this team has more questions than answers.

Centerfield Jun 23 2015 09:20 AM Re: My perverse wish

It seems inevitable to me that Terry Collins will eventually be fired. It's a shame. This is not his fault. Ownership slashed the budget. The front office has had incredible missteps. In his five years, Sandy has landed us one productive offensive player (d'Arnaud) and he had to trade a Cy Young winner to do it. (Two if you count the half year of Marlon Byrd). Last year, on the brink of contention, and badly needing power for the lineup, they added a 36 year old outfielder coming off a major injury. And did nothing else. For an offense that needed an impact, middle of the order bat, he went the easy way and took middling talent. They are paying the price for that now. Someone should write a book from Omar's perspective how he set up the Mets for contention (Harvey, deGrom, Familia) but Sandy Alderson could not supplement the team with the talent to bring it home.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 23 2015 09:37 AM Re: My perverse wish

Terry's contract ends at the end of this season. He won't be invited back, so unless you really think a new manager can get the guys here to play a lot better it seems like a longshot he'll be whacked. And I know you're being facetious on the Omar shit.

Fman99 Jun 23 2015 10:33 AM Re: My perverse wish

As an authority on this topic, your perverse wish is A JOKE.

Edgy MD Jun 23 2015 10:41 AM Re: My perverse wish

Mike Puma declaring that team officials are declaring that Terry's job is safesafesafe.

TransMonk Jun 23 2015 11:06 AM Re: My perverse wish

I don't think Terry will be fired, but I don't think he'll be back next season. If he is, it means management is not going to make any effort that involves spending money to make the team more competitive in '16 either. IMO, fair or not, Terry has always been and continues to be a placeholder until management is ready to commit to winning at all (or at least more) costs.

d'Kong76 Jun 24 2015 08:25 PM Re: My perverse wish

Lefty Specialist wrote: My perverse wish? A 12-game losing streak. It's got to be one game longer than the winning streak, for emphasis. You're more than half-way there!

Centerfield Jun 24 2015 08:28 PM Re: My perverse wish

This is really inexcusable. Five years of rebuilding and this is the lineup they put out there? Seriously. Fire everyone.

Centerfield Jun 24 2015 08:28 PM Re: My perverse wish

That includes the owners.

Gwreck Jun 24 2015 08:41 PM Re: My perverse wish

Right, but I am coming around to your argument that Alderson has done only a fair-to-poor job and needs to take a lot of the blame here. Yes, we all can agree that a Dodgers-like transformation isn't possible with the Wilpons as owners and with Selig/Manfred burying their head in the sand. But Alderson still hasn't done anything useful to upgrade the offense, even with whatever resources he does have.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 25 2015 05:09 AM Re: My perverse wish

It's clear the beat guys all love Terry and deeply resent Alderson. Just for fun, given the same $$ and market and farm system who should be playing RF and LF for the Mets?

Lefty Specialist Jun 25 2015 07:16 AM Re: My perverse wish

Sandy went too deep on pitching and too short on offense. So now we're in a situation where a prized prospect is spinning his wheels in Vegas because there's no spot for him at the major league level, and yet we're sticking the Eric Campbells and Johnny Monells of the world into the lineup so we can score a run or two per game. Sandy knew last winter that he had two pitchers that would be up sooner rather than later in Syndegaard and Matz. He had another potential arm in Montero. The obstacles to them were two out of the three of Colon, Gee, and Niese. But he did nothing. And since, their value has plummeted. He couldn't even give Gee away. He jumped on Cuddyer because, well, who knows? Once he got that QO we were all breathing a sigh of relief that we'd dodged that over-the-hill bullet. But no! Do I know who should be our left and right fielders? Well, something better than what we got. That's why GM's get hired and fired.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2015 07:25 AM Re: My perverse wish

John Belushi time.

Lefty Specialist Jun 25 2015 07:30 AM Re: My perverse wish

If only we could get a horse into Fred Wilpon's office......

TransMonk Jun 25 2015 08:57 AM Re: My perverse wish

I think that ownership and management got together this spring and thought that the team was ready to compete in 2015 as is (was) as long as: - Injuries were few and minor - Flores, d'Arnaud and Lagares continued to mature and get better as hitters - Wright, Murphy and Duda maintained their production - Cuddyer and Granderson could somehow hold off the aging process for another year ...and I agree with them. If all (or even most) of those things happened, I think things would be different as far as wins and losses go. But very few of those things are turning out to go the Mets way so far. I also think that ownership/management decided early on internally that if these factors did not go the Mets way, they would not be looking to add payroll or trade prospects for fixes in 2015. If that was the plan, maybe they are sticking to it. Honestly, maybe that 11 game winning streak in April was the worst thing that could have happened to their plan as it raised fan and media expectations higher than it really should have been. At this point, I would be much more willing to SELL on Colon or Granderson than I would be to BUY for Aramis Ramirez or some other window dressing of a solution. Maybe I just think this so that I can sleep better at night (especially the past few), but there are not many teams that can win without their C, 2B, 3B, 3rd starter and half their bullpen for large chunks of the season...nor would I really expect them to. But the Mets are still not just one player away on offense. Unlike in past years, this is mostly due to injury rather than talent, but the premise remains the same.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 25 2015 11:33 AM Re: My perverse wish

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It's clear the beat guys all love Terry and deeply resent Alderson. Just for fun, given the same $$ and market and farm system who should be playing RF and LF for the Mets? Gerardo Parra or some such piece (obtained via trade for, like, Montero y cambio) in right, Granderson in left.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2015 03:19 PM Re: My perverse wish

Too bad, pervs. The dream of a 12-game losing streak is lost. LOST!

Lefty Specialist Jun 25 2015 04:31 PM Re: My perverse wish

Oh well, I have the feeling they'll try again. I'm glad it didn't happen right then because the wrath of the entire board would have come down on me.

TransMonk Jul 09 2015 09:49 AM Re: My perverse wish

Not sure this goes here, but I strongly agree with Mark Simon on this article: Hey, Sandy Alderson: There's no use in Mets making big deal at deadline Mark Simon wrote: So yes, the Mets should feel really good about their 4-2 West Coast trip, the way that deGrom is looking like a Cy Young candidate and Matz and Syndergaard seem to be getting better with each turn. But this is about looking at the big picture. And the big picture puts the Mets' playoff odds at 20 percent. They could still make the postseason as currently composed, particularly if Wright and d'Arnaud return and make an impact. But the small gains that could come from making a big trade today will be dealt with as ramifications when you look at the Mets’ future the day after the season ends.

Edgy MD Jul 09 2015 09:55 AM Re: My perverse wish

Wow, Simon says (seewhatIdidthere?) there's no point in investing in a team with 20% odds this morning of making the playoffs. Thanks, Quitkowski. I hate trades but I disagree. If it's the right deal, it's the right deal. And the Mets, I imagine, are perfectly capable of calculating the playoff odds increased in 2015 against the playoff odds possibly lost long-term.

Ceetar Jul 09 2015 10:03 AM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: Wow, Simon says (seewhatIdidthere?) there's no point in investing in a team with 20% odds this morning of making the playoffs. Thanks, Quitkowski. I hate trades but I disagree. If it's the right deal, it's the right deal. And the Mets, I imagine, are perfectly capable of calculating the playoff odds increased in 2015 against the playoff odds possibly lost long-term. Too many assumptions there for my liking. 1. that the Nationals current record in any way represents a 'on pace' projection. Most teams probably don't at this point, but they've been so up and down it's hard to say those crests and valleys will be mimicked the second half. Never mind that the Mets play them 12 or so times. The Mets absolutely don't need ALL of those things to win. they need some of them. The bullpen's probably fine. They need more offense, but all of that is a glut. One hitter plus healthier Cuddyer or d'Arnaud or Wright back and hitting goes a long long way.

Edgy MD Jul 09 2015 10:08 AM Re: My perverse wish

I'm not sure whose assumptions you're talking about, as you directly reference my post.

Ceetar Jul 09 2015 10:11 AM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure whose assumptions you're talking about, as you directly reference my post. I think it's pretty clear in context that I'm talking about the post.

Edgy MD Jul 09 2015 10:22 AM Re: My perverse wish

I asked for clarification, so no, it wasn't (and still isn't) clear enough for me. What does "the post" mean?

Lefty Specialist Jul 09 2015 10:46 AM Re: My perverse wish

They had pretty good odds of making the playoffs on September 12th, 2007. Their odds were pretty good after the 11-game streak, too. So odds one way or the other on July 9th are, what's the word?.......meaningless.

d'Kong76 Jul 09 2015 10:48 AM Re: My perverse wish

I thought he was talking about Simon Quitkowski... but agree it's unclear as typed. I'm not gonna say on 7/9 I want them to stay pat or do something, never know what might present itself. It may be too good to pass up. Like Al Swearengen once said, "Announcing your plans is a good way to hear god laugh."

Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2015 08:06 AM Re: My perverse wish

This thread seems to be worth bumping now.

MFS62 Sep 14 2015 08:27 AM Re: My perverse wish

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This thread seems to be worth bumping now. Especially for the entertainment value. Thanks. Later

d'Kong76 Sep 14 2015 08:28 AM Re: My perverse wish

Repeated calls to Mr. Quitkowski's office remain unanswered.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 08:29 AM Re: My perverse wish

GOOD bump.

Gwreck Sep 14 2015 08:30 AM Re: My perverse wish

Happy to eat some crow here. The point that the Mets would be better off with new ownership remains unassailable. Still, happy to eat some crow.

Ceetar Sep 14 2015 08:34 AM Re: My perverse wish

Gwreck wrote: Happy to eat some crow here. The point that the Mets would be better off with new ownership remains unassailable. Still, happy to eat some crow. well, they could definitely upgrade ownership, but 'new' covers a wide variety of outcomes. but this is one of those butterfly effects. Anything different about this group this year likely means vastly players/outcomes. Maybe if they were super flush they take the risk on Gomez's bad hip and don't push for Cespedes. Either way it's tilting at windmills. The Wilpons will continue to own the team for a long while.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 08:37 AM Re: My perverse wish

Gwreck wrote: Happy to eat some crow here. That's good to hear. We've prepared a lot of it.

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 08:38 AM Re: My perverse wish

Centerfield wrote: This is really inexcusable. Five years of rebuilding and this is the lineup they put out there? Seriously. Fire everyone. For the record, this is the lineup that spurred this post: 1. Granderson RF 2. Tejada 2B 3. Duda 1B 4. Flores SS 5. Ceciliani LF 6. Lagares CF 7. Monell C 8. Campbell 3B 9. Colon P No matter how much faith the fans had, or how bad the Nationals were, this was not going to get it done. And sure, injuries play a part, but having a lineup where 3 of the 8 are not major leaguers, and another 3 are really part time players, is a failure on the part of a general manager. Then, at the trade deadline, Sandy Alderson went on a tear. He traded for Uribe and Johnson. He called up Conforto. He traded for Yoenis Cespedes. He bolstered the bullpen with Clippard, and O'Flaherty and Reed. And when O'Flaherty sucked, he called up other candidates to replace him. And he did all of that without giving up any coveted prospects. That's what we were hoping for when we hired Sandy Alderson. I absolutely applaud Alderson for what he has done. Gwreck wrote in this thread that Alderson hadn't done anything useful with the resources that he had. Now he has done exactly that. The only ones remaining on my shitlist for now are the owners. And they can get off of that if they raise the budget this winter and start acting like a big market team.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 08:44 AM Re: My perverse wish

Come on. Judging an entire organization and their activities over several years and demanding the firing of everyone over the day's lineup is the height of nearsightedness. This too was never going to get it done. Calling for a 12-game losing streak because you believe nobody will see problems that need to be addressed any other way? It's obviously untrue that Alderson hadn't done anything useful.

d'Kong76 Sep 14 2015 08:47 AM Re: My perverse wish

Isn't that the lineup that Terry went with to tell the front office that the Mets suck as constructed and it's time to shit or get off the proverbial toilet?

TransMonk Sep 14 2015 08:50 AM Re: My perverse wish

I'll eat crow here, too...and praise Alderson for filling needs without mortgaging too much future. No matter what happens in October, the 2015 has exceeded my expectations from nearly every angle on multiple occasions.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2015 08:56 AM Re: My perverse wish

TransMonk wrote: No matter what happens in October, the 2015 has exceeded my expectations from nearly every angle on multiple occasions. I agree with that. In early August, when things were looking far from settled, I told myself that I'd be delighted with the division title and anything beyond that would be a bonus. Now, of course, I want more than that. I want them to go deep into the playoffs. I want them to win the World Series. But even if they lose quickly in the first round, this has been a great season and a successful one. I'll be looking forward to 2016 more than I have any season in almost a decade.

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 09:03 AM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: Come on. Judging an entire organization and their activities over several years and demanding the firing of everyone over the day's lineup is the height of nearsightedness. This too was never going to get it done. Calling for a 12-game losing streak because you believe nobody will see problems that need to be addressed any other way? It's obviously untrue that Alderson hadn't done anything useful. It wasn't just that day's lineup, and you are aware of that. It was the lineup they posted throughout the first four months of the season. That team was 52-50 at the trade deadline. It was supposed to be the culmination of 5 years of rebuilding, and instead it was a laughable offense. I was absolutely judging the organization over their work over several years. They developed great young pitching but brought in no hitters. It was utterly predictable that the offense would be lacking before they played 1 game in 2015, and it was also true that Alderson's big acquisition over the winter was a 36 year old outfielder coming off a major injury. I'm happy to give credit to Alderson for doing a great job since then, but I stand by my position that the front office deserved criticism.

Ceetar Sep 14 2015 09:12 AM Re: My perverse wish

The Mets scored 6 less runs than the Nationals in April, and no one else in the division scored more. They scored 97 runs in 23 games or just over 4 runs a game.

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 09:20 AM Re: My perverse wish

Ceetar wrote: The Mets scored 6 less runs than the Nationals in April, and no one else in the division scored more. They scored 97 runs in 23 games or just over 4 runs a game. If the point of your post is that the Mets offense was fine before the trade deadline moves, that might be the most asinine position you have taken since joining the Board. And this includes gems such as "A higher budget does not lead to a competitive advantage" and "It is the burden of other posters to disprove my theories."

Gwreck Sep 14 2015 09:22 AM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: It's obviously untrue that Alderson hadn't done anything useful. Selective quoting there. My claim on June 24 was "But Alderson still hasn't done anything useful to upgrade the offense, even with whatever resources he does have. " I think we can agree that he now has made substantial moves to upgrade the offense: trading for 3 players and calling up a fourth from the minors.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 09:26 AM Re: My perverse wish

Gwreck wrote: It's obviously untrue that Alderson hadn't done anything useful. Selective quoting there. My claim on June 24 was "But Alderson still hasn't done anything useful to upgrade the offense, even with whatever resources he does have. " I think we can agree that he now has made substantial moves to upgrade the offense: trading for 3 players and calling up a fourth from the minors. Well, I was quoting it as Centerfield had it. He "hadn't done anything useful with the resources he had." I disagreed then and disagree now. I think the offense has prospered thanks to his machinations. It just wasn't obvious at the time, as offense was lost to the disabled list or still cooking in the minors. If the point was that the team was struggling offensively at the time, certainly. I disagreed that it called for a blowing up of the organization or a 12-game losing streak.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 09:38 AM Re: My perverse wish

Centerfield wrote: It wasn't just that day's lineup, and you are aware of that. Well, that's what you wrote. It was the lineup they posted throughout the first four months of the season. No it wasn't. That team was 52-50 at the trade deadline. That's not so bad, in the scheme of things. It certainly didn't undermine where they are now. It was supposed to be the culmination of 5 years of rebuilding... It was far closer to a snapshot. ... and instead it was a laughable offense. That's not all it was. It was also an outstanding pitching staff, with a fantastic farm system just then graduating some of their best. With enough redundancy throughout to add pieces without removing the best players. And obviously, some of the best hitters on the disabled list, and others who weren't performing but either were still worth having faith in or weren't. Which way does a person go? Tough choice to make. You called for blowing everything up. I was absolutely judging the organization over their work over several years. Well, here we are.

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 10:47 AM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: It wasn't just that day's lineup, and you are aware of that. Well, that's what you wrote. And you are well aware that my post, written out of frustration, was not meant to be taken literally. My position was based upon frustration over the state of the roster, not one particular lineup. Edgy MD wrote: It was the lineup they posted throughout the first four months of the season. No it wasn't. Again, it is silly to pretend not to know what I mean here. I am not saying that the lineup they posted that day was the lineup for the first four months of the season. That is a silly statement, if given a minute of thought, can clearly be determined to not be my point. "It", as written, means "The impetus behind my frustration" was the lineup they posted throughout the first four months of the season. Edgy MD wrote: That team was 52-50 at the trade deadline. That's not so bad, in the scheme of things. "Hi I'm Sandy Alderson. It is a pleasure to be your new GM. I have this great rebuilding plan that will have us finish with a losing record for the next four years. During that time we will say goodbye to fan favorites, build a great pitching staff, but field the worst lineup in the major leagues. That's right, in five years, I hope to be able to say our position is not so bad, in the scheme of things." Edgy MD wrote: It certainly didn't undermine where they are now. I am not talking about where they are now. I was criticizing where they were then. And where they were then is not acceptable. Perhaps I can illustrate this with another scenario. We own a shoe company. Sandy is hired to manage the company. He tells us that for four years, the company will lose money. But in year five, it will take off. Sandy is wonderful at making left shoes. He is one of the best in the field, and others in the industry write what an amazing collection of left shoes Sandy has compiled. Unfortunately Sandy makes terrible right shoes. The worst in the industry. Halfway through year 5, the company is at break-even. Sandy is criticized. It is demanded that he make better right shoes. Shortly afterwards, Sandy improves his production of right shoes. He now makes shoes right shoes as well as he makes left shoes. With a strong collection of both left and right shoes, the company takes off and reaches new heights. Sandy is applauded. In my opinion, both the criticism of Sandy and the applauding of Sandy are justified. Edgy MD wrote: It was supposed to be the culmination of 5 years of rebuilding... It was far closer to a snapshot. Half a season is not a snapshot. Edgy MD wrote: ... and instead it was a laughable offense. That's not all it was. It was also an outstanding pitching staff, with a fantastic farm system just then graduating some of their best. With enough redundancy throughout to add pieces without removing the best players. And obviously, some of the best hitters on the disabled list, and others who weren't performing but either were still worth having faith in or weren't. Which way does a person go? Tough choice to make. You called for blowing everything up. I mentioned the pitching staff. Several times. You chose not to quote it. My point was never that Sandy did absolutely nothing right. It's that he left out a key component needed to field a winning team. Edgy MD wrote: I was absolutely judging the organization over their work over several years. Well, here we are. Yes. Here we are. Because they finally made the moves I had been imploring them to make since last winter. They brought in two professional hitters to replace the non-major league talent they were trotting out there. They brought in the middle of the lineup hitter I had been begging for. They called up Conforto like I asked them to do. Getting d'Arnaud and David back helped. But let's not pretend that keeping status quo would have put us where we are now. Halfway through the season, I demanded right shoes. We finally got them. You cannot call my criticism unjustified by citing to success they have enjoyed by doing exactly what I asked them to do.

Vic Sage Sep 14 2015 11:59 AM Re: My perverse wish

CF is, as almost always (and like THIRTEEN used to be), correct. Preach it, my brother from another mother.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 14 2015 12:16 PM Re: My perverse wish

Centerfield wrote: I'm happy to give credit to Alderson for doing a great job since then, but I stand by my position that the front office deserved criticism. Maybe he had set up all the pieces and was just waiting for the right moment to pounce.

Lefty Specialist Sep 14 2015 12:27 PM Re: My perverse wish

Okay, I take it all back. "Hsiw Esrevrep Ym!!!! Expellioso!" By the power of the great Wizard Sedepsec I make this thread vanish!

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 12:29 PM Re: My perverse wish

I'm happy to give credit to Alderson for doing a great job since then, but I stand by my position that the front office deserved criticism. Maybe he had set up all the pieces and was just waiting for the right moment to pounce. Absolutely a fair point. And this is really the best counter to my position. If that were the case, and I don't actually believe that it is the case, it still warranted criticism. First off, I think it is risky. Secondly, Sandy had earned no benefit of the doubt. Sandy's plan to wait and pounce relies upon: 1. The Mets managing to hang around for the first half. 2. Washington struggling, and 3. The deadline moves to be significant and have immediate impact. Basically when trying to make the playoffs, I think it is too risky to do so by fielding a great team for half the season, rather than the full season. Even if the pricetag on the improvements is higher in December than it is in July, it is worthwhile to have them all year long. But it worked out. Fine. I'm ok with how they did it. I'm just thrilled that they did it. More importantly, nothing they had done in the past gave any indication that this administration was willing to go that extra mile. They had no prior history to give them an ounce of credibility. But that has changed now. Next season, if we are in the same situation, I will likely say to myself "This sucks. I hope Sandy can come through again for us like he did last year."

Zvon Sep 14 2015 01:05 PM Re: My perverse wish

d'Kong76 wrote: Isn't that the lineup that Terry went with to tell the front office that the Mets suck as constructed and it's time to shit or get off the proverbial toilet? IIRC that was this lineup: 1. Curtis Granderson (L) RF 2. Ruben Tejada (R) SS 3. Wilmer Flores (R) 2B 4. John Mayberry Jr. (R) LF 5. Eric Campbell (R) 3B 6. Lucas Duda (L) 1B 7. Juan Lagares (R) CF 8. Anthony Recker (R) C 9. Bartolo Colon (R) P

Frayed Knot Sep 14 2015 01:22 PM Re: My perverse wish

I'm happy to give credit to Alderson for doing a great job since then, but I stand by my position that the front office deserved criticism. Maybe he had set up all the pieces and was just waiting for the right moment to pounce. That may actually not be too far off. Not the part about having all the pieces lined up (after all, we know the situation was certainly fluid right up until the deadline itself - ask Wilmer about it, he'll tell you) but that at a time when many were screaming at him to do some deal he had the patience to wait for the right deal and knew that what road he took would depend on various factors including what I assume would have been a very different course had the Nationals caught fire in May and ran away with the division as was widely predicted. Bottom Line: What this season shows is that rooting for roof collapses because you think it'll shake things up on the mgmt and/or ownership level (like they don't know the situation as well as we do) is rarely a good idea because as much as we like to think we know what's going to happen, we don't. I remember NY Giants fans from a bunch of years ago rooting for late season losses because, at best, making the playoffs would result in a one and out situation plus it would improve their draft position for a team that so obviously had the wrong quarterback and the wrong coach to ever win. That was the season of the first of Manning & Coughlin's Super Bowl wins.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2015 01:40 PM Re: My perverse wish

I've never understood the blow-it-all-up-and-start-over impulse. I mean, I suppose there are times when such an approach is warranted, but usually that wouldn't be the case. It always sounds overly masochistic to me. I don't get why angst is such a big part of sports fandom for many people. I don't know who it was, and I'm not going to try to dig it up, but I'm pretty sure that some people here were saying that the Mets wouldn't contend again for the duration of David Wright's contract.

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 01:43 PM Re: My perverse wish

Vic Sage wrote: CF is, as almost always (and like THIRTEEN used to be), correct. Preach it, my brother from another mother. I don't get it. You (Centerfield) insist that you stand by what you wrote. What you wrote is everybody should be fired. It should all be blown up. That should mean you disown everything going forward if they don't blow up the organization. And here we are. If you embrace where we are, then you must certainly embrace that you weren't really right then. Otherwise, you can never really be wrong. That's no way to be.

Centerfield Sep 14 2015 04:30 PM Re: My perverse wish

Edgy MD wrote: Vic Sage wrote: CF is, as almost always (and like THIRTEEN used to be), correct. Preach it, my brother from another mother. I don't get it. You (Centerfield) insist that you stand by what you wrote. What you wrote is everybody should be fired. It should all be blown up. That should mean you disown everything going forward if they don't blow up the organization. And here we are. If you embrace where we are, then you must certainly embrace that you weren't really right then. Otherwise, you can never really be wrong. That's no way to be. I wrote that everybody should be fired. I never said anything about blowing up anything. Figuratively or literally. We have great pitchers. There is no point in dumping them. My post was written in frustration seemingly following a loss. The larger point and rationale behind it was the the front office had done a terrible job. After four years of rebuilding, this is an unacceptable lineup to put out on the field. Except for posts written out of frustration, as this one, I have never seriously advocated for Alderson's dismissal. Mainly because I don't know anyone who might be a better candidate. Still, if you are going to take the post literally, even though I hadn't seriously advocated for it, I would have been fine with firing Alderson and his entire staff. They had years to turn this team into a strong contender and failed to do so. They failed to make any aggressive or creative moves to upgrade the lineup and showed no signs of changing course. I see no reason why I have to disown anything good that may have come afterwards. Especially if they turn around takes place after they do exactly what I have been advocating for them to do. Doesn't the turn around, in fact, prove me right? If Sandy is driving a bus aimlessly around town, I can advocate that he should lay out the resources to buy a map. If he refuses to do so I can take the position that he should be fired. If afterwards, he pulls out a map and takes us home, why do I have to disown the result?

Edgy MD Sep 14 2015 05:36 PM Re: My perverse wish

Centerfield wrote: I wrote that everybody should be fired. I never said anything about blowing up anything. I didn't really think there was any distinction between these two statements. No, you never said anything about dumping pitchers. I didn't say you did. My use of "blowing up" was meant to characterize blowing up the organization, as you advocated. Firing everybody. I disagreed with that. If you didn't seriously mean he should be fired, you didn't. I'm not sure when to take you seriously, though. Especially when your statement is preceded by the word "Seriously." I'm not clear then what we're talking about here. Maybe "seriously" only applied to the part of the paragraph that preceded the one-word sentence "Seriously." If so, my misunderstanding.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 15 2015 08:25 AM Re: My perverse wish

I'm going with the theory that Sandy Alderson is the Petyr Baelish of Major League Baseball, pulling all the strings behind the scenes, even going so far as making the Nationals feel that they're the kings before cutting them down like the Braves and Phillies before them. Now the culmination of his cunning plan has come to light in the form of Mets dominance.

Centerfield Sep 15 2015 08:43 AM Re: My perverse wish

I wrote that everybody should be fired. I never said anything about blowing up anything. I didn't really think there was any distinction between these two statements. No, you never said anything about dumping pitchers. I didn't say you did. My use of "blowing up" was meant to characterize blowing up the organization, as you advocated. Firing everybody. I disagreed with that. If you didn't seriously mean he should be fired, you didn't. I'm not sure when to take you seriously, though. Especially when your statement is preceded by the word "Seriously." I'm not clear then what we're talking about here. Maybe "seriously" only applied to the part of the paragraph that preceded the one-word sentence "Seriously." If so, my misunderstanding. Summary of My Position: End of June: Sandy had done a bad job. Depending on my level of anger, I fluctuated between just criticizing him, to calling for him to be fired. Now: Sandy has since done a great job. He has done everything that I had asked or could ask him to do. It took a lot of luck and good fortune, but we'll take it. I am no longer angry with him. I no longer want him fired.

Lefty Specialist Sep 15 2015 08:49 AM Re: My perverse wish

I should be fired for starting this thread.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 15 2015 06:13 PM Re: My perverse wish

I understand where people are exaggerating to make their case, this whole thread is an example of it, but the reason I wouldn't have advocated a 12-game losing streak being good for the Mets, other than the obviously counterproductivity of it, is the fact that considering the club at "full strength" when it was there, gave us probably the best looking spring training team I can remember as a fan, and also, the 11 game win streak right off the bat in April. I know the back end of that streak was largely the result of momentum from the first half, but taking those two things togetrher, and given some hope that Wright and d"Arnaud would return, had to give even pessimistic root-for-losing-streak fans some evidence that it could be done with the talent Alderson had assembled at the time the season began. Its a process!