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[*]The focus of the prospective trade market instantly shifts from infielders to outfielders. I think this greatly expands the list of potential options.
Agree - there are many more options in the outfield.
here are some names I proposed in another thread yesterday with a little more information on each. No superstars, but all with some history of competence , playing out end of contract on losing teams, an improvement over what Mets have seen (refer to June swoon thread) and likely to cost less to acquire in talent and future commitment than Prado, Zobrist, Tulo, Cargo etc....
David Murphy , Cleveland, 173 PA: .329/.372/.494/ .866/ OPS+138
33yo, signed through 2015 at $6 million per year
Ryan Raburn, Cleveland, 126 PA: .300/.381/.536/.917 OPS+152
34yo, signed through 2015 at $2.45 million per year
Seth Smith, Seattle, 236 PA, .256/.326/.455/.781/OPS+123
32yo, signed through 2016 at $6.5/year
Kelly Johnson, Atlanta, 145 PA, .263/.297/.423/.720 OPS+ 97
33you, signed through 2015 for $1.5m
Ichiro (forget I mentioned him, he is shot)
Gerardo Parra, Milwakee, 254 PA, .290/.320/.445/.766 OPS+108
28yo, signed through 2015 at 6.24m
Will Venable, Padres, 203 PA, .263 / .325 / .409 / .734 OPS+109
32yo, signed through 2015 at 4.25M
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Frayed Knot
Jul 01 2015 02:42 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Current word is that Cuddyer had an MRI and will miss a couple days, but most likely NOT need to go on the DL.
On the Conforto front, Brandon Nimmo is one who is going to have to be added to the 40-man roster prior to the 2016 season anyway so perhaps he, with his 4x the number of AA ABs under his belt as compared to Conforto, would be the more logical call-up if one is needed anytime soon. Confront, drafted two years later, won't be under those constrictions this coming winter.
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Edgy MD
Jul 01 2015 02:58 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Dreamer, why no Dodgers?
Nimmo: There's a reason to call him up sooner, but I'm not thinking it's a slam dunk case, Conforto being older (by nearly four weeks!) and killing it and stuff.
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86-Dreamer
Jul 02 2015 07:08 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Edgy MD wrote:
Dreamer, why no Dodgers?
Nimmo: There's a reason to call him up sooner, but I'm not thinking it's a slam dunk case, Conforto being older (by nearly four weeks!) and killing it and stuff. |
I dream of Dodgers outfielders too. didn't list them though as was focused on guys on losing teams with expiring contracts. Ethier and Puig seem likely to be dealt at some point and would be nice upgrades but I am guessing Mets won't pay the high price in $ or prospects to land them. I am just hoping they'll spend a couple million and some mid-level prospects on a fill-in.
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TheOldMole
Jul 02 2015 07:24 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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But everyone hates Puig, right?
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TheOldMole
Jul 02 2015 07:26 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean?
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Ceetar
Jul 02 2015 07:27 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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TheOldMole wrote:
I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean? |
maybe he's saying "Try me."
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Benjamin Grimm
Jul 02 2015 07:33 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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I wonder if he means he'll overpay in talent or in salary, or both.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 02 2015 08:21 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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TheOldMole wrote:
I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean? |
My interpretation of that remark is an attempt to diffuse speculation that the reason Sandy hasn't made more trades was that he doesn't make a deal unless he can "win" it. Asks for too much, offers too little.
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Edgy MD
Jul 02 2015 08:27 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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That's certainly what I've speculated about him. A hard bargainer.
I interpreted the comment as Sandy taking the heat off his bosses by suggesting that no trade has yet gone down because he hasn't found the deal to help the team, not because the purses are to tight to take on salary.
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Edgy MD
Jul 02 2015 08:30 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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It's interesting that independent sources have both the Dodgers and the Cubs interested in Niese. It may satisfy Sandy the market analyst to make a deal with at least the hint of a second team bidding.
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Ashie62
Jul 02 2015 09:30 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Sandy may be too committed to Sandy.
Paralysis by analysis of sorts.
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Edgy MD
Jul 02 2015 10:56 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Sandy as A's GM was pretty big on in-season trades.
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Rockin' Doc
Jul 02 2015 08:50 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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It is hard to believe that Conforto would be any worse ha wha the Mets are currenly fielding on a regular basis. He seems to have earned a shot, given the unproductive masses currently on the Mets. If he comes up and struggles, then he can be sent back down and at least he has some insight in what he needs to do to be successful at the major league level in the future.
Regarding Tejada, I believe he has had ample opportunities in the past to show what he could do. I believe he has shown that he is a below average overall for the position. I'm not surprised that he has struggled since becoming the regular shortstop for the team.
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Edgy MD
Jul 02 2015 09:17 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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There is, however, more than a little wisdom common (if not scientifically verified) in baseball (and other sports — see Freddy Adu) that launching a player on the big leagues prematurely — particularly with the pressure on him to save a team's ship — can be set the player's development back, for the short-term and the long-.
I mean, how many recent batters can we name who've been promoted with only 30 games above A-ball?
I agree that he can't do any worse than Campbell, and likely can't do any worse than Mayberry. He probably can do worse than Cuddyer. But say he stays for three weeks, having stunk as badly as Campbell, that's probably an awful career turn for the guy. And another problem for the team.
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Rockin' Doc
Jul 03 2015 05:33 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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You bring up a good and valid point. There is definitely a risk in promoting a prospect to soon. I guess it can depend on the emotional make up and maturity of the prospect. Some people can weather the storm of a poor showing during an early call up and use the experience gained to motivate them to work harder to prepare for the next level; while others have their confidence shattered and are never able to ultimately succeed at the next level.
An athlete's psyche and confidence can be a fragile thing at times, but I believe it is talent that most determines an athlete's ultimate success.
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Lefty Specialist
Jul 03 2015 05:40 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Dilson Herrera is kind of comparable. He'd only had 61 games above A ball when they called him up straight from AA, and while there were bright spots, mostly he struggled. Struggled even more this year (.195).
He's only 21 and has plenty of time to develop yet, but you can't help but wonder if he's been derailed a bit.
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Edgy MD
Jul 03 2015 05:48 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Dilson had the advantage of coming up for a September run with no implication that he was there to save anything or do anything other than take his turns and enjoy the catering.
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Ashie62
Jul 03 2015 07:41 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Top Prospects seem to go from AA straight to the majors of late. See Houston and Minnesota.
I like it. These prospects don't have to sit in AAA sitting with with largely MLB castoffs.
Put Conforto in LF and see if he continues to hit. Its' not like we are married to the promotion.
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Edgy MD
Jul 03 2015 08:20 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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There's a tremendous amount of precedent going back a long time for top prospects going straight from AA to the majors with little or no time in AAA. What there isn't a lot of precedent for is going straight to the majors with little or no time in AA as well. And 30 games is little time.
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Edgy MD
Jul 03 2015 09:23 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Houston:
Carlos Correja (top five overall prospect) had 29 games in AA and 24 in AAA.
Preston Tucker had 125 games in AA and 108 games in AAA.
Minnesota:
Eddie Rosario had 79 games in AA and 23 games in AAA.
Byron Buxton (top five overall prospect) has had 60 games and counting in AA and none as yet in AAA.
Miguel Sano (top 15 overall prospect) had 133 games in AA.
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Lefty Specialist
Jul 03 2015 09:28 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Akeel Morris found this out the hard way.
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Ashie62
Jul 03 2015 10:23 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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I am considering Conforto advanced due to his years of the highest level of college baseball.
I don't really believe there is harm at giving him a crack.
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Edgy MD
Jul 06 2015 12:59 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Kind of surprised to see the Mets get out of town without the Niese-Ethier deal going down. Niese and Ethier certainly passed their auditions. And Cuddyer and Bolsinger certainly failed theirs. With Carlos Frias DL-bound, the Dodgies are looking hot to act.
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Nymr83
Jul 06 2015 01:08 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Ashie62 wrote:
I am considering Conforto advanced due to his years of the highest level of college baseball.
I don't really believe there is harm at giving him a crack. |
Putting him on the 40 before he needs to be is a harm in and of itself as that would potentially create a logjam if we needed to promote someone else who wasnt on the 40 later. so if Nimmo is hitting and is either on the 40 or needs to be put there much sooner (i believe this offseason?) anyway, he makes more sense.
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Edgy MD
Jul 06 2015 01:14 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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There may indeed be no harm. But considering sending guy to the bigs with a month of experience above A+, presumably to be an everyday player, is almost never done, one has to believe there is the potential for harm.
With regard to the alleged precedents from Houston and Minnesota, is there a case I'm overlooking?
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Nymr83
Jul 06 2015 01:18 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Edgy MD wrote:
Kind of surprised to see the Mets get out of town without the Niese-Ethier deal going down. Niese and Ethier certainly passed their auditions. And Cuddyer and Bolsinger certainly failed theirs. With Carlos Frias DL-bound, the Dodgies are looking hot to act. |
I don't like it, Ethier might not be the better player, is redundant with Granderson (a left-handed hitter who still owns righties but is better off on the bench vs lefties), and is owed alot more than Niese.
I would go so far as to say that if the Dodgers tried to pass him through waivers I wouldnt even want to put a claim in given how much time and salary is left. Niese meanwhile is actually a decent bargain for a good 3rd/4th starter if you believe that is what he is.
Ethier (33 years old) Contract:
2015:$18M
2016:$18M,
2017:$17.5M
2018:$17.5M club option ($2.5M buyout)
2018 salary guaranteed with 550 plate appearances in 2017
Niese (28 years old) Contract:
2015:$7M
2016:$9M,
2017:$10M club option ($0.5M buyout)
2018:$11M club option ($0.5M buyout)
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Edgy MD
Jul 06 2015 01:28 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Yeah, I'm not really advocating so much as sensing that something feels ready to go down and the Mets and Dodgers match up well with regard to their assets and liabilities.
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Lefty Specialist
Jul 06 2015 02:10 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Absolutely want no part of Ethier, for Niese or anybody else.
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Nymr83
Jul 06 2015 02:15 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.)
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Ceetar
Jul 06 2015 02:18 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Nymr83 wrote:
Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.) |
The Mets.
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Ashie62
Jul 06 2015 06:19 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Scott Van Slyke sux.
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Frayed Knot
Jul 06 2015 06:55 PM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Ceetar wrote:
| Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.) |
The Mets. |
Even if one were given toward trading for SVS (and I'm not) there's no reason why the Mets should need to eat money on a Niese trade.
His deal of $9 + $10, + $11/0.5 buyout for 2016-2018 is perfectly reasonable for a mid-rotation starter.
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Nymr83
Jul 07 2015 07:58 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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Frayed Knot wrote:
| Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.) |
The Mets. |
Even if one were given toward trading for SVS (and I'm not) there's no reason why the Mets should need to eat money on a Niese trade.
His deal of $9 + $10, + $11/0.5 buyout for 2016-2018 is perfectly reasonable for a mid-rotation starter. |
not as reasonable as SvS's major league minimum though, and i think you see this a lot with midseason trades where the team's budgets may already be "locked in" for the year by ownership that they split the difference on the current year.
Why no love for Van Slyke? he seems to me like a pretty decent player who has always been blocked by an outfield glut in Los Angelos. he is 28 years old but only has 580 PAs over the past 4 years. those 580 PAs add up to .257/.342/.465 (31 doubles, 24 homers, 61 walks). he looks like a player to me, certainly a better one than Conforto is right now. BR has his league/park-neutralized stats as the equivalent of .273/.360/.494
Why can't the Mets use this guy?
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Ceetar
Jul 07 2015 08:07 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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because he's a 28 year old outfielder who's only gotten about one season worth of AB so far? OPS down to nearly .700 against righties.
So he's a better version of John Mayberry basically. That's a minor upgrade and not really worth Niese. You'd really have to see something to think he's a solid regular to do that. Not really a CFer so it's not like you're going to play him over Lagares and he's not better than Cuddyer or Granderson so..
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Frayed Knot
Jul 07 2015 08:09 AM
Re: The Knee of Cuddyer
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| Why can't the Mets use this guy? |
It's not that they couldn't use him, he'd probably be better than Mayberry whose role he'd essentially take.
But I wouldn't give up Niese for him and I certainly wouldn't give up Niese plus pay part of the freight.
Besides, Van Slyke's a limited player - almost totally the opposite set of skills from his father. He doesn't run well, he doesn't field well, he doesn't hit RHP particularly well, he K's a lot, he's no longer young as you've already said. Plus for a high-K/low-BA slugger he's not that much of a slugger: a 17-HR over a 162-game average and of course he would be a poor bet to actually get 17 HRs if given a full season because then he's not just facing the pitchers he has the best shot at.
Useful piece? - Sure.
Worth a solid starting pitcher? - Not even close IMO. I'd give them Gee if they want.
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