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Father-Son Hitting Combos

Edgy MD Jul 13 2015 10:07 PM

Splitting off from the home run contest thread, I was braining about who the best f/s hitting teams were. Plucking candidates from my memory (mostly), I scored the the way Bill James once did when he was trying to figure out the top baseball clans, combining the WARs, but doubling the WAR for the lesser-achieving player. The only other rule was there had to be two generations who actually played big league ball, however passingly. Else, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would be in the top five even without a big league father or son. Also, I counted only offensive WAR. Sorry Schofields, but that was the question. If you count step-parents — and why shouldn't you? — our men Mookie and Preston are a higher-achieving pair than I might have guessed. And Ray Boone, who knew you were so good? # Better Player WAR Lesser Player WAR Adjusted Total 1 Barry Bonds 142.6 =#0040FF]Bobby Bonds 51.6 245.8 2 Ken Griffey, Jr. 83.8 =#0040FF]Ken Griffey, Sr. 41.1 166.0 3 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]Gus Bell 24.1 95.5 4 =#FF4000]Roberto Alomar 70.0 =#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr. 7.8 85.6 5 =#FF4000]Pete Rose, Sr. 82.2 =#0040FF]Pete Rose, Jr. -0.1 82.0 6 =#FF4000]Prince Fielder 35.0 =#0040FF]Cecil Fielder 19.9 74.8 7 =#FF4000]Maury Wills 38.1 =#0040FF]Bump Wills 15.1 68.3 8 =#FF4000]Tim Raines, Sr. 68.4 =#0040FF]Tim Raines, Jr. -0.5 67.4 9 =#FF4000]Tony Gwynn, Sr. 66.2 =#0040FF]Tony Gwynn, Jr. -0.4 65.4 10 =#FF4000]Gary Matthews, Sr. 39.2 =#0040FF]Gary Matthews, Jr. 12.2 63.6 11 =#FF4000]Hal McRae 29.7 =#0040FF]Brian McRae 16.9 63.5 12 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]David Bell 8.1 63.5 13 =#FF4000]Yogi Berra 56.5 =#0040FF]Dale Berra 3.4 63.3 14 =#FF4000]Bret Boone 28.2 =#0040FF]Bob Boone 15.9 60.0 15 =#FF4000]Ray Boone 27.4 =#0040FF]Bob Boone 15.9 59.2 16 =#FF4000]Mookie Wilson 20.5 =#0040FF]Preston Wilson 14.7 49.9 17 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]Mike Bell 0.0 47.3 18 =#FF4000]Bob Boone 15.9 =#0040FF]Aaron Boone 13.3 42.5 19 =#FF4000]Andy Van Slyke 37.1 =#0040FF]Scott Van Slyke 2.6 42.3 20 =#FF4000]Danny Tartabull 35.2 =#0040FF]Jose Tartabull 0.7 36.6 21 =#FF4000]John Mayberry, Sr. 27.8 =#0040FF]John Mayberry, Jr. 3.1 34.0 22 =#FF4000]Sandy Alomar, Jr. 13.7 =#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr. 7.8 29.3 23 =#FF4000]Todd Hundley 15.8 =#0040FF]Randy Hundley 5.9 27.6 24 =#FF4000]Dick Schofield 14.1 =#0040FF]Ducky Schofield 6.5 27.1 25 =#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Jr. 10.4 =#0040FF]Jerry Hairston, Sr. 6.2 22.8 26 =#FF4000]Eric Young, Sr. 19.6 =#0040FF]Eric Young, Jr. 1.5 22.6 27 =#FF4000]Ben Grieve 15.9 =#0040FF]Tom Grieve 3.0 21.9 28 =#FF4000]Nick Swisher 23.9 =#0040FF]Steve Swisher -2.6 18.7 29 =#FF4000]Dave Duncan 9.8 =#0040FF]Chris Duncan 3.7 17.2 30 =#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Sr. 6.2 =#0040FF]Scott Hairston 5.3 16.8 31 =#FF4000]Tony Peña, Sr. 18.7 =#0040FF]Tony Peña, Jr. -2.2 14.3 32 =#FF4000]Dave Duncan 9.8 =#0040FF]Shelley Duncan 1.2 12.2 33 =#FF4000]Ozzie Virgil, Jr. 11.7 =#0040FF]Ozzie Virgil, Sr. -1.1 9.5

MFS62 Jul 13 2015 10:15 PM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

Nice list. The one that shocked me was Buddy Bell that much over daddy Gus. I remember Gus as a good power hitter for the Reds for many years. Didn't realize Buddy had a better career. Later

metsmarathon Jul 14 2015 06:41 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

uh-llooo! UH-LLLOOOOOOO!!!!!! you're missing the #3 father-son combo, one with metly connections, and an adjusted total of 112.7 daddy had 35.8 oWAR, and faced the mets in our first world series. sonny boy, you may remember more recently, had 41.1 oWAR, including 2.2 with our beloveds. an excellent hitter, he surely could've amassed a greater carerer total, but was quite frequently injured. he got himself a world series ring while playing a fish.

MFS62 Jul 14 2015 06:54 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

I knew more about Gus, since he played most(if not all) of his career in the National League. He had been on the 1960 Pennant winning Reds (I did an historic KTE about them) and was an original Met. Buddy played most of his career in the American League so I hadn't followed him with great interest. That's why it came as a surprise. Nobody remembers everything about baseball. That's why they have databases and trivia contests. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2015 07:02 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

metsmarathon is referring to Don Buford and Damon Buford. I had totally forgotten that Damon Buford was a Met. (44 games in 1995.)

Frayed Knot Jul 14 2015 07:06 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

And speaking of ex-Mets, this list is Alou-less.

seawolf17 Jul 14 2015 07:39 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

LOL Pete Rose Jr. "You know? That's Pete Rose's son."

MFS62 Jul 14 2015 07:40 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

seawolf17 wrote: LOL Pete Rose Jr. "You know? That's Pete Rose's son." Are you sure its his? What are the odds? Later

Edgy MD Jul 14 2015 07:45 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

Good thinking, gents. We have a new bronze medalist pairing. # Better Player WAR Lesser Player WAR Adjusted Total 1 Barry Bonds 142.6 =#0040FF]Bobby Bonds 51.6 245.8 2 Ken Griffey, Jr. 83.8 =#0040FF]Ken Griffey, Sr. 41.1 166.0 3[/bigpurple] Moises Alou 41.1 =#0040FF]Felipe Alou 35.8 112.7 4 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]Gus Bell 24.1 95.5 5 =#FF4000]Roberto Alomar 70.0 =#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr. 7.8 85.6 6 =#FF4000]Pete Rose, Sr. 82.2 =#0040FF]Pete Rose, Jr. -0.1 82.0 7 =#FF4000]Prince Fielder 35.0 =#0040FF]Cecil Fielder 19.9 74.8 8 =#FF4000]Maury Wills 38.1 =#0040FF]Bump Wills 15.1 68.3 9 =#FF4000]Tim Raines, Sr. 68.4 =#0040FF]Tim Raines, Jr. -0.5 67.4 10 =#FF4000]Tony Gwynn, Sr. 66.2 =#0040FF]Tony Gwynn, Jr. -0.4 65.4 11 =#FF4000]Gary Matthews, Sr. 39.2 =#0040FF]Gary Matthews, Jr. 12.2 63.6 12 =#FF4000]Hal McRae 29.7 =#0040FF]Brian McRae 16.9 63.5 13 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]David Bell 8.1 63.5 14 =#FF4000]Yogi Berra 56.5 =#0040FF]Dale Berra 3.4 63.3 15 =#FF4000]Bret Boone 28.2 =#0040FF]Bob Boone 15.9 60.0 16 =#FF4000]Ray Boone 27.4 =#0040FF]Bob Boone 15.9 59.2 17 =#FF4000]Mookie Wilson 20.5 =#0040FF]Preston Wilson 14.7 49.9 18 =#FF4000]Buddy Bell 47.3 =#0040FF]Mike Bell 0.0 47.3 19 =#FF4000]Bob Boone 15.9 =#0040FF]Aaron Boone 13.3 42.5 20 =#FF4000]Andy Van Slyke 37.1 =#0040FF]Scott Van Slyke 2.6 42.3 21 =#FF4000]Danny Tartabull 35.2 =#0040FF]Jose Tartabull 0.7 36.6 22 =#FF4000]John Mayberry, Sr. 27.8 =#0040FF]John Mayberry, Jr. 3.1 34.0 23[/bigpurple] =#FF4000]Don Buford 30.7 =#0040FF]Damon Buford 1.3 33.3 24 =#FF4000]Sandy Alomar, Jr. 13.7 =#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr. 7.8 29.3 25 =#FF4000]Todd Hundley 15.8 =#0040FF]Randy Hundley 5.9 27.6 26 =#FF4000]Dick Schofield 14.1 =#0040FF]Ducky Schofield 6.5 27.1 27 =#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Jr. 10.4 =#0040FF]Jerry Hairston, Sr. 6.2 22.8 28 =#FF4000]Eric Young, Sr. 19.6 =#0040FF]Eric Young, Jr. 1.5 22.6 29 =#FF4000]Ben Grieve 15.9 =#0040FF]Tom Grieve 3.0 21.9 30 =#FF4000]Nick Swisher 23.9 =#0040FF]Steve Swisher -2.6 18.7 31 =#FF4000]Dave Duncan 9.8 =#0040FF]Chris Duncan 3.7 17.2 32 =#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Sr. 6.2 =#0040FF]Scott Hairston 5.3 16.8 33 =#FF4000]Tony Peña, Sr. 18.7 =#0040FF]Tony Peña, Jr. -2.2 14.3 34 =#FF4000]Dave Duncan 9.8 =#0040FF]Shelley Duncan 1.2 12.2 35 =#FF4000]Ozzie Virgil, Jr. 11.7 =#0040FF]Ozzie Virgil, Sr. -1.1 9.5

MFS62 Jul 14 2015 07:53 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

What does "Adjusted Total" mean if you said you were just counting offensive WAR? (a new metric?) Later

Edgy MD Jul 14 2015 08:03 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

I didn't say I was just counting the WARs. Edgy MD wrote: I scored the the way Bill James once did when he was trying to figure out the top baseball clans, combining the WARs, but doubling the WAR for the lesser-achieving player.

MFS62 Jul 14 2015 08:37 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

Thanks. Guess I'm still a kid at heart - I look at the picture without reading the words. :) Later

Chad Ochoseis Jul 14 2015 06:58 PM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

We are Adam and Dave and Andy Adam and Dave and Andy LaRoche We played a lot of baseball And we put up decent numbers (put up decent numbers) Well, Andy really sucked But the rest of us put up decent numbers Dave LaRoche hit .246 in more at bats than Pete Rose Jr. His oWAR is 1.0, although pitchers get compared only to other pitchers for oWAR calcs. But if you count Dave's 1.0 with Adam's 16.0, the LaRoches move into the neighborhood, right between the Swishers and the Duncans.

Edgy MD Jul 14 2015 07:58 PM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

That's fair, as long as we're just counting offensive WAR, to include combos in which father or son was a pitcher. That also gives us the Tonys Armas, Vernon and Vance Law, and Joe and Lance Niekro, among others.

metsmarathon Jul 16 2015 08:09 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

did you draw the line at delino deshields? 24.2 WAR for senior., 1.1 (and counting) for junior. the gordons, gee and flash, are, well, probably closer to the cut line, as daddy had a scant 2 plate appearances (no hits) during his 21 year career. i don't quite undestand how, but bbref has flash down as a 0.4 oWAR. how...? but dee is finally starting to come around, with 4.4 WAR to his name.

Edgy MD Jul 16 2015 09:04 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

I drew the line at my fatigue point. I can add them laters.

Edgy MD Jul 16 2015 09:07 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

Edgy MD wrote: I drew the line at my fatigue point. I can add them laters. But feel free to copy the chart and edit them in.

metsmarathon Jul 16 2015 11:08 AM Re: Father-Son Hitting Combos

too much work. it's more fun to poke holes in your excellent work.