Master Index of Archived Threads


Front Office Failure

Centerfield Jul 24 2015 07:44 AM

Buster Olney tweeted this yesterday: Elias--The Mets became the 2nd team since 1920 to start No. 4 and No. 5 hitters with batting averages under .180 and at least 100 ABs This is pathetic. Absolutely inexcusable. And unfortunately, absolutely predictable. The front office will use injuries as an excuse, but every team has had injuries, including Washington. Bad luck happens. And when it happens, legitimate contenders field a lineup that is weaker than they hoped, but still competitive. You only get stupid lineups like this when you aim for mediocrity. It sickens me that we've gone through 5 years of rebuilding to end up here.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 07:47 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Buster Olney tweeted this yesterday: Elias--The Mets became the 2nd team since 1920 to start No. 4 and No. 5 hitters with batting averages under .180 and at least 100 ABs ¡phwamo![/bigpurple]

Centerfield Jul 24 2015 07:53 AM Re: Front Office Failure

What are Gary, Keith and Ron saying about this? I only tuned in later in the game so I missed anything they might have said about this lineup. Are they criticizing this front office? If there really is going to be that separation between ownership and the broadcast, the failure of the front office to field a competitive lineup has to be discussed.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 07:56 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Buster Olney tweeted this yesterday: Elias--The Mets became the 2nd team since 1920 to start No. 4 and No. 5 hitters with batting averages under .180 and at least 100 ABs This is pathetic. Absolutely inexcusable. And unfortunately, absolutely predictable. The front office will use injuries as an excuse, but every team has had injuries, including Washington. Bad luck happens. And when it happens, legitimate contenders field a lineup that is weaker than they hoped, but still competitive. You only get stupid lineups like this when you aim for mediocrity. It sickens me that we've gone through 5 years of rebuilding to end up here. fuck batting average and fuck batting order statistics like that. Big fucking deal. They're so next to meaningless. Now yes, the Mets offense sucks. They've dealt with quite a few injuries and under performances. They didn't get a shortstop, though one wasn't really available either. But we're in a down offensive era, with an understanding on the meaningless of batting averages. John Mayberry Jr. has very good numbers against lefties over 600 PA. It was a good signing, to be used for just this occasion. I'd make that move every season to bolster the bench. It hasn't worked out, but why should we assume it won't going forward?

TransMonk Jul 24 2015 07:59 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Centerfield wrote: It sickens me that we've gone through 5 years of rebuilding to end up here. I don't know that 2015 was ever supposed to be year one of the post-rebuild. Not that it makes it any less sickening, though.

TransMonk Jul 24 2015 08:02 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Ceetar wrote: It hasn't worked out, but why should we assume it won't going forward?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2015 08:07 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Buster Olney tweeted this yesterday: Elias--The Mets became the 2nd team since 1920 to start No. 4 and No. 5 hitters with batting averages under .180 and at least 100 ABs This is pathetic. Absolutely inexcusable. And unfortunately, absolutely predictable. The front office will use injuries as an excuse, but every team has had injuries, including Washington. Bad luck happens. And when it happens, legitimate contenders field a lineup that is weaker than they hoped, but still competitive. You only get stupid lineups like this when you aim for mediocrity. It sickens me that we've gone through 5 years of rebuilding to end up here. fuck batting average and fuck batting order statistics like that. Big fucking deal. They're so next to meaningless. Now yes, the Mets offense sucks. They've dealt with quite a few injuries and under performances. They didn't get a shortstop, though one wasn't really available either. But we're in a down offensive era, with an understanding on the meaningless of batting averages. John Mayberry Jr. has very good numbers against lefties over 600 PA. It was a good signing, to be used for just this occasion. I'd make that move every season to bolster the bench. It hasn't worked out, but why should we assume it won't going forward? #I'mWithCeetar The lunatic fringe of the fan base and writers frustrated with access like Kernan and Rubin are whipping this into a frenzy but as I see it Alderson is just incredibly deliberate and devoted to the process. I'd be very surprised if they don;t go get someone in the next couple days. BTW, d'Arnaud back next week. Then what will the narrative be?

Centerfield Jul 24 2015 08:08 AM Re: Front Office Failure

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: It hasn't worked out, but why should we assume it won't going forward? I wish I could frame this and mail it to Sandy Alderson. Hey, Ruben Tejada has been looking better lately. Maybe he's learned to hit?

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 08:10 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Ceetar wrote: fuck batting average and fuck batting order statistics like that. Big fucking deal. They're so next to meaningless. Since 1920 is not meaningless, that's almost a century of baseball.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 08:21 AM Re: Front Office Failure

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: fuck batting average and fuck batting order statistics like that. Big fucking deal. They're so next to meaningless. Since 1920 is not meaningless, that's almost a century of baseball. Correct. BUT. in say 1950 we thought batting average meant something. We weren't as understanding about the role of luck in the game. We weren't aware of how small a sample 120 AB is. Mayberry is better than he's shown through the first half of the season. There is a lot more data supporting that than there is that he will hit .170 or whatever. We're not George Steinbrenner making stupid snap decisions based on the flurry of the moment. There needs to be a thought out and reasoned approach. (btw, he's got a .203 BABIP) We maybe should wait until the end of the season to see if the front office failed or not. At least until the end of this week. It'd be hard to accept doing absolutely nothing, even if David Wright managed to get into a rehab game in that time (he won't) and hit a HR. and d'Arnaud was activated and Cuddyer said his knee felt magically fine. (although if all three of those things happen the Mets probably make the playoffs) Anyway, it's hard to have backup plans upon backup plans. Before the season started, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to say that Clint Robinson was a better backup bench guy than Mayberry (or even Kirk) and yet, that backup plan has went swimmingly for the Nats and not for the Mets.

Centerfield Jul 24 2015 08:22 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Agreed. It's a dumb statement. (By "Agreed" I meant to agree with KC. Not the immediately preceding post. I haven't read it but I can guarantee I don't agree with it.) I give you a choice of two batters to hit in the middle of your lineup. Group A is hitting .170 and .190 respectively. Group B is hitting .280 and .300. You know nothing else about them. Only an idiot would select Group A. Batting average is not everything, but it is certainly not meaningless. (or nearly meaningless)

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 08:27 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Centerfield wrote: I give you a choice of two batters to hit in the middle of your lineup. Group A is hitting .170 and .190 respectively. Group B is hitting .280 and .300. You know nothing else about them. Only an idiot would select Group A. Batting average is not everything, but it is certainly not meaningless. (or nearly meaningless) Exactly.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 08:29 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Centerfield wrote: I give you a choice of two batters to hit in the middle of your lineup. Group A is hitting .170 and .190 respectively. Group B is hitting .280 and .300. You know nothing else about them. Only an idiot would select Group A. ) luckily it's NO LONGER 1920 and we DO know a lot more about each of them.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 08:30 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Ceetar wrote: We maybe should wait until the end of the season to see if the front office failed or not. At least until the end of this week. It'd be hard to accept doing absolutely nothing, even if David Wright managed to get into a rehab game in that time (he won't) and hit a HR. and d'Arnaud was activated and Cuddyer said his knee felt magically fine. (although if all three of those things happen the Mets probably make the playoffs) You're eating from the same box of Lucky Charms and washing it down with the same Kool-Aid that Fred and Jeffie are.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 08:31 AM Re: Front Office Failure

No, I'm just waiting to see what else is served before declaring the whole meal a disaster based on the waiter dropping the second course.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 08:37 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Well, we can table this disucssion (meal) until 8/1... but my guess is it will be more a famine than a feast.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 08:38 AM Re: Front Office Failure

d'Kong76 wrote: Well, we can table this disucssion (meal) until 8/1... but my guess is it will be more a famine than a feast. My guess is that if it's not an All-Star stud, there will be cries of too little too late regardless of the actual value.

TransMonk Jul 24 2015 08:41 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Ceetar wrote: We maybe should wait until the end of the season to see if the front office failed or not. At least until the end of this week. It'd be hard to accept doing absolutely nothing, even if David Wright managed to get into a rehab game in that time (he won't) and hit a HR. and d'Arnaud was activated and Cuddyer said his knee felt magically fine. (although if all three of those things happen the Mets probably make the playoffs) *Bolding mine. Given the uncertainty around Wright's injury and Cuddyer's ineffectiveness even before his injury, I'm not sure "probably" is the word I would use there. "More likely"? Maybe. I'm ready for d'Arnaud to return whenever he is.

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 08:49 AM Re: Front Office Failure

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: We maybe should wait until the end of the season to see if the front office failed or not. At least until the end of this week. It'd be hard to accept doing absolutely nothing, even if David Wright managed to get into a rehab game in that time (he won't) and hit a HR. and d'Arnaud was activated and Cuddyer said his knee felt magically fine. (although if all three of those things happen the Mets probably make the playoffs) *Bolding mine. Given the uncertainty around Wright's injury and Cuddyer's ineffectiveness even before his injury, I'm not sure "probably" is the word I would use there. "More likely"? Maybe. I'm ready for d'Arnaud to return whenever he is. Well more likely is a given. They're better hitters. I'd argue Cuddyer's been hurt probably this entire time. and Wright is awesome so if it progresses to the point where he's in games and not dying from it I have a lot of confidence in his ability to help. Also, the Nats kinda suck and have their own problems.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 09:00 AM Re: Front Office Failure

This banking on the awesomeness of David Wright is gonna make me pop open a bottle of scotch. Just stop!!

Farmer Ted Jul 24 2015 10:56 AM Re: Front Office Failure

It's July 24th and the Mets are 2 games over .500 and 3 games back. Life isn't that sucky.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 11:09 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Aw, c'mon out on the ledge! The air is fine out here.

Farmer Ted Jul 24 2015 12:06 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Watching you on the ledge is just fine with me. The Nats series at home next week is when shit gets serious and I take the beer goggles off!

RealityChuck Jul 24 2015 12:20 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Too many Mets fans just want to reenact the Scott Kazmir trade. The reality is that to get the type of player who can make an immediate difference, they're going to have to offer either Harvey, DeGrom, or Syndergaard. If Matz comes back from the DL from the deadline, then they can offer him, too. Niese won't do it. Wheeler and Montero are DL'ed. Gee is probably not even enough to get a good prospect these days. The hard cold fact is that other teams don't give away game changers for nothing. So put your money where your mouth is. Who do they give up? Harvey, DeGrom, or Syndergaard?

Ceetar Jul 24 2015 12:34 PM Re: Front Office Failure

they don't need a Carlos Beltran, a solid infielder would do the trick. thinking a guy ~120 wRC+. Flores to the bench. If we have no faith in Mayberry add in another versatile platoon type OF guy to spell Conforto if he's not hitting that well. Or just one to send him back down for more seasoning. Two above average hitters would make a world of difference. Especially with d'Arnaud back.

Gwreck Jul 24 2015 12:36 PM Re: Front Office Failure

You trade Harvey, because he's the closest to free agency, a Boras client, and the least likely of all of them to sign a contract extension or sign as a free agent with the Mets. I'm not sure there's an impact player available via trade for Harvey though. This is why I want the Mets to sign free agents --something they've done a poor job of -- because (mostly) all it costs to do so is cash.

TransMonk Jul 24 2015 01:27 PM Re: Front Office Failure

RealityChuck wrote: Who do they give up? Harvey, DeGrom, or Syndergaard? None of the above. Niese has a 2.28 ERA in his last 8 starts and has a very reasonable contract beyond this season. I have to think he has some legitimate value right now.

Frayed Knot Jul 24 2015 01:29 PM Re: Front Office Failure

This is pathetic. Absolutely inexcusable. And unfortunately, absolutely predictable. The front office will use injuries as an excuse, but every team has had injuries, including Washington. Bad luck happens. And when it happens, legitimate contenders field a lineup that is weaker than they hoped, but still competitive. You only get stupid lineups like this when you aim for mediocrity. This was "predictable" only if you know in advance that every single player on the roster (except, oddly, for Granderson as he was taking the most shit early in the season) is going to have an off-year. Mayberry: Career OPS = 734. 2015 = 550 Kirk: 708 >> 613 (and much of that was from one day) Campbell: 680 >> 576 Lagares: 703 >> 612 Duda: 830 >> 754 (and that's after a hot start - it's been about 550 sine June 1st) Murphy: 752 >> 708 Cuddyer: 813 >> 683 Recker: 646 >> 506 So, no, as big a blow as Wright exiting Game 9 with a hamstring issue and missing the season until at least mid-August is or d'Arnaud's two separate injuries are, it's not just the injuries, it's that, in addition to those injuries, the winter's biggest acquisition is failing miserably, that the non-injured established players have either flat-lined (Murphy) or regressed (Duda, Lagares), and that backups to these injured and/or under-performers are grossly underperforming themselves or are proving to be not ready (Flores, Plawecki + the entire bench). Sure the GM bears the ultimate responsibility for all this. But to label THIS level of ineptness as utterly predictable is hindsight. To use an example I've used before, Washington's GM Mike Rizzo is a genius this year in getting past his injuries because he went into the season knowing that Danny Espinosa was going to raise his OPS by nearly 200 points over what it was the last 2 seasons [581 to 744] and that 30 y/o career minor leaguer (13 ML ABs prior to 2015) Clint Robinson was not only going to be capable of replacing Ryan Zimmerman but out-hitting him [765 OPS to 611] as well. He also banked on the 32 y/o Yunel Escobar jacking his OPS up 120 points from 2014. And what those step-up players have allowed the Nats to do is that on days (like probably this weekend) when they have to start several from among the .211-hitting Matt den Dekker (OF), the .214-hitting Tyler Moore (OF), the .197-hitting Lose Lobaton (C), and the .192-hitting Dan Uggla (2B), it means they only have 3 or 4 holes in their lineup rather than 5 or 6. It makes a good bit of difference. Luck is the residue of design ... except when it's also the residue of luck.

smg58 Jul 24 2015 01:56 PM Re: Front Office Failure

I'm guessing that it wouldn't take Harvey, deGrom, or Syndegaard to upgrade on Mayberry or Eric Campbell.

Zvon Jul 24 2015 03:08 PM Re: Front Office Failure

This is pathetic. Absolutely inexcusable. And unfortunately, absolutely predictable. The front office will use injuries as an excuse, but every team has had injuries, including Washington. Bad luck happens. And when it happens, legitimate contenders field a lineup that is weaker than they hoped, but still competitive. You only get stupid lineups like this when you aim for mediocrity. This was "predictable" only if you know in advance that every single player on the roster (except, oddly, for Granderson as he was taking the most shit early in the season) is going to have an off-year. Mayberry: Career OPS = 734. 2015 = 550 Kirk: 708 >> 613 (and much of that was from one day) Campbell: 680 >> 576 Lagares: 703 >> 612 Duda: 830 >> 754 (and that's after a hot start - it's been about 550 sine June 1st) Murphy: 752 >> 708 Cuddyer: 813 >> 683 Recker: 646 >> 506 So, no, as big a blow as Wright exiting Game 9 with a hamstring issue and missing the season until at least mid-August is or d'Arnaud's two separate injuries are, it's not just the injuries, it's that, in addition to those injuries, the winter's biggest acquisition is failing miserably, that the non-injured established players have either flat-lined (Murphy) or regressed (Duda, Lagares), and that backups to these injured and/or under-performers are grossly underperforming themselves or are proving to be not ready (Flores, Plawecki + the entire bench). Sure the GM bears the ultimate responsibility for all this. But to label THIS level of ineptness as utterly predictable is hindsight. To use an example I've used before, Washington's GM Mike Rizzo is a genius this year in getting past his injuries because he went into the season knowing that Danny Espinosa was going to raise his OPS by nearly 200 points over what it was the last 2 seasons [581 to 744] and that 30 y/o career minor leaguer (13 ML ABs prior to 2015) Clint Robinson was not only going to be capable of replacing Ryan Zimmerman but out-hitting him [765 OPS to 611] as well. He also banked on the 32 y/o Yunel Escobar jacking his OPS up 120 points from 2014. And what those step-up players have allowed the Nats to do is that on days (like probably this weekend) when they have to start several from among the .211-hitting Matt den Dekker (OF), the .214-hitting Tyler Moore (OF), the .197-hitting Lose Lobaton (C), and the .192-hitting Dan Uggla (2B), it means they only have 3 or 4 holes in their lineup rather than 5 or 6. It makes a good bit of difference. Luck is the residue of design ... except when it's also the residue of luck. Great post. The drop in Cadaver is the killer. Watching him in spring I figured even if he suffered a slight drop due to age he'd serve well.

d'Kong76 Jul 24 2015 03:15 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Ceetar wrote: they don't need a Carlos Beltran, a solid infielder would do the trick. thinking a guy ~120 wRC+. Flores to the bench. If we have no faith in Mayberry add in another versatile platoon type OF guy to spell Conforto if he's not hitting that well. Or just one to send him back down for more seasoning. Two above average hitters would make a world of difference. Especially with d'Arnaud back. I'm fine with all this, I don't need an all-star stud like you referred to earlier. Just show us you care a little, that you can and will look to improve things. Bringing up Conforto has placated me some. It shows they finally accept Coach Cuddy is hurt (and kinda sucked) and Mayberry just doesn't deserve to play much. They have a week (and I know it's not a trade deadline in stone) to get a few puzzle pieces for this year. They are in striking distance and to do nothing and fade away is going to make for another very long and cold winter.

Nymr83 Jul 24 2015 03:23 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Mayberry just doesn't deserve to play much i think he still deserves to play against lefties, whether that is worth a roster spot in this era of 4 man benches is a separate question, but he has value,

Frayed Knot Jul 24 2015 04:28 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Again with Mayberry, he HAD been good vs LHPs but suddenly isn't. Maybe more time and he reverts to form but it sure isn't looking that way. His splits for his career were: 833 OPS vs LHP, 646 vs RHP. This year he's at 628 & 464 IOW, while his hitting vs LHPs is still better than it is vs RHPs, this season he's hitting LHPs (aka: the job he was brought in to do) worse than he traditionally hit vs RHPs and THAT says as much about his year as anything.

Nymr83 Jul 24 2015 05:12 PM Re: Front Office Failure

and THAT says as much about his year as anything. it says "small sample size" and "BABIP adjustment coming" (currently .203) Rumors on twitter have Juan Uribe and Kelly Johnson joining the Mets. no confirmation i can find

Frayed Knot Jul 24 2015 06:07 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Nymr83 wrote: it says "small sample size" and "BABIP adjustment coming" (currently .203) It says 'Really Suxx' is what it says.

Farmer Ted Jul 24 2015 06:10 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Maybe I should inch toward the ledge a bit.

MFS62 Jul 25 2015 05:19 AM Re: Front Office Failure

Farmer Ted wrote: Maybe I should inch toward the ledge a bit. We gotcha'. Just hold on a while longer. Help is on the way. Later

Edgy MD Jul 25 2015 07:11 PM Re: Front Office Failure

Sandy is a genius. A genius and magician.