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Relief pitching

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2015 10:06 AM

Joel Sherman, who's been right about a lot of stuff, says the Mets are looking to acquire relief help, mainly because Mejia isn't eligible for postseason. It also sorta makes sense if we intend to be in it, Familia's recent stretch of unexcellence, and Parnell's shitty unwinding the other day. It's what teams in contention get from teams not in contention. I hate the motherfucker but Tyler Clippard (A's) is on the list, as is Juaquin Benoit, now of San Diego. Any thoughts?

TransMonk Jul 27 2015 10:11 AM Re: Relief pitching

I gotta fever and the only prescription is more bullpen.

Ceetar Jul 27 2015 10:13 AM Re: Relief pitching

you pretty much gotta lean on Mejia heavily down the stretch right? completely burn him out?

HahnSolo Jul 27 2015 10:20 AM Re: Relief pitching

Not sure how Clippard is throwing this year, but he always seemed like a guy who could come out of the pen and have success against both righties and lefties and if you had to get more than one inning out of him you could. Plus he owes us for the May '07 Sunday night start he had for the MFYs against us.

TransMonk Jul 27 2015 10:21 AM Re: Relief pitching

Ceetar wrote: you pretty much gotta lean on Mejia heavily down the stretch right? completely burn him out? Oh yeah. Really, that is the rest of his punishment for getting caught using PEDs. If he's effective, he's got to be used as much as possible down the stretch. Terry will need to figure out where that breaking point is to avoid injury and ineffectiveness.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 10:29 AM Re: Relief pitching

I tend to think Veteran Relief Help is something everyone is gunning for at deadline time, and nobody really gets an edge from. I mean, we've been through crunches with six or seven starters, and now they have three closers. Come October, the back end of the rotation lands in the bullpen anyhow. Maybe they can trade Gilmartin for a veteran guy. I'm curious about whether they really intend to go the distance without a left-handed specialist, while they have Dario Alvarez, Chase Huchingson, and Scott Rice totally getting the job done on the farm. Duane Below too before he went to Japan.

TransMonk Jul 27 2015 11:50 AM Re: Relief pitching

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 12:10 PM Re: Relief pitching

A quick look at the Web and I learned that Clippard is going to be traded today to everybody.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 12:15 PM Re: Relief pitching

And suddenly, signs start pointing to TheMetsTheMetsTheMets. Threatens to make our ex-Yankee factor dangerously high.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2015 12:36 PM Re: Relief pitching

I'm concerned he'll continue fucking us over, just in a different way. Wonder if Sandy can get Reddick to come along for the ride, that would be really nice.

TransMonk Jul 27 2015 12:37 PM Re: Relief pitching

I disliked him more in that Nats pen.

Frayed Knot Jul 27 2015 12:39 PM Re: Relief pitching

Clippard's annoying in that he slows down the pace of the game the second he comes in. That said he's good a lot more often than not and he could slide in just about anywhere in the pen, including closer if needed.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 27 2015 12:39 PM Re: Relief pitching

Don't overpay, Mets. The shit is free all over the internet.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2015 12:58 PM Re: Relief pitching

I'm concerned he'll continue fucking us over, just in a different way. This. I just hate buying high on relievers (see: Putz, et. al.). Clippard is a great, versatile one (from multi-inning stints to closing), though.... for now. Even then, his peripherals scream "regression/decline" (lower K-rate, higher BB-rate, lower-GB-rate than last year, along with suspiciously high strand-rate and low BABIP). I'm hoping Alderson's driving a typically-hard bargain, 'cause this way, there be dragons.

RealityChuck Jul 27 2015 01:50 PM Re: Relief pitching

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Don't overpay, Mets. The shit is free all over the internet. He's dead, but his grandsons are still available.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2015 01:56 PM Re: Relief pitching

CLIPPY CAN DO, AND ZOBRIST TOO

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2015 02:24 PM Re: Relief pitching

I'm concerned he'll continue fucking us over, just in a different way. This. I just hate buying high on relievers (see: Putz, et. al.). Clippard is a great, versatile one (from multi-inning stints to closing), though.... for now. Even then, his peripherals scream "regression/decline" (lower K-rate, higher BB-rate, lower-GB-rate than last year, along with suspiciously high strand-rate and low BABIP). I'm hoping Alderson's driving a typically-hard bargain, 'cause this way, there be dragons. Yes me too. Hopefully comes cheap but given competition for him, probably won't; maybe (maybe!) we can get an edge by doing Oakland the favor of also taking Josh Reddick, or I dunno, SS Marcus Simien, who's almost a good hitter.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 02:35 PM Re: Relief pitching

Seems to me that we're in a world of options where, if we really want a reliever (and I'm not thinking we should, so much), there's a world of opportunities out there of guys with less name-brand juice but who who the Peter Brands in the front office have identified as justasgood. How about Mark Lowe and his thimble-full of ERA with Seattle? Not old enough? Joe Beimel is like 100. The Padres got Joaquin Benoit and Shawn Kelley setting up Kimbrel. That seems a little bit of overkill for a team with so few saves to build, no? It's 2015. Capable veteran relievers can be hunted and trapped in the wild for free. Think offense, Mets. The only reason you should be looking for relievers is if Atlanta is demanding Hansel Robles in the little Andrelton Simmons package you're assembling.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 27 2015 04:26 PM Re: Relief pitching

Done apparently, we got our Tyler Clip Art. For a minor leaguer named Casey Meisner. Mets Acquire Tyler Clippard By Jeff Todd [July 27, 2015 at 5:16pm CDT] The Mets have agreed to a deal that will land them reliever Tyler Clippard from the Athletics, Oakland announced (and as Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com first reported on Twitter). Oakland will receive righty Casey Meisner in return, and will also send some cash to New York in the deal. Casey Meisner on BBRef -> http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=meisne000cas

TransMonk Jul 27 2015 04:44 PM Re: Relief pitching

I think this is another pretty nice deal. My outlook on this team is much more favorable today than it was a week ago.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 04:46 PM Re: Relief pitching

Dang it all. Meisner was flying below the radar up until now, but was really having a breakthrough year. I was following him from start to start, and I liked to pretend that he was Randy Meisner's son, even though he looked more like Richie Cunningham's snarky hipster brother.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 27 2015 04:49 PM Re: Relief pitching

Hard to fly under the radar when you're 6'7".

Frayed Knot Jul 27 2015 04:50 PM Re: Relief pitching

Clippard will join the team just in time for the upcoming Nats series.

dgwphotography Jul 27 2015 05:51 PM Re: Relief pitching

TransMonk wrote: I think this is another pretty nice deal. My outlook on this team is much more favorable today than it was a week ago. Favorable? I'm starting to get downright giddy.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2015 08:15 PM Re: Relief pitching

Frayed Knot wrote: Clippard will join the team just in time for the upcoming Nats series. DeLIcious. [Tents fingers] [Chortles to self]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2015 08:24 PM Re: Relief pitching

Meisner was also singled out by Frank Viola when he was asked about the top arms he'd seen in the org. But, hey. Been real, Gigantic Hatman.

Frayed Knot Jul 27 2015 08:44 PM Re: Relief pitching

Could we eventually get burned by this? ... Sure. But the odds say that we won't, and if you operate with the attitude that you should never make a move you may regret in the future then you're never going to get anywhere. With the super slim margin of error that our staff is operating on, one extra reliever could make a lot of difference. And it would be one thing if Vic Black wasn't sucking, or Montero were healthy, or Parnell had more of a post-surgery track record under his belt, pr if Mejia wasn't an idiot, or if Leathersich had flourished, or if Blevins & Edgin not gone down, etc. ... but those things didn't go our way this year so we are where we are.

Frayed Knot Jul 27 2015 08:53 PM Re: Relief pitching

A write-up of Meisner from John Sickels' site (although not by Sickels): http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/7/2 ... ey-meisner From the outside looking in, it may seem like the Oakland As could have gotten more than a 20-year old right hander who has yet to throw a pitch in Double-A. Don’t be fooled, Meisner has the goods to succeed and make it to the big leagues. It just won’t be any time soon. Meisner was selected in the third round of the 2013 draft. He put together a nice season with the Brooklyn Cyclones in 2014 going 5-3 over 13 starts while posting a 3.75 ERA and striking out 67 in 62.1 innings. He finished the year with a WHIP a tad bit higher than desired at 1.36 but that didn’t seem to concern the Mets. Meisner was amid a solid 2015 before being traded Monday evening. He sat at 10-4 over 18 combined Sally and FSL starts, with a 2.35 ERA and a 1.14 WHIP. He has somewhat struggled with command since being promoted to St. Lucie, posting the highest walk rate (3.60 per nine) of his young career. He has also posted his worst strikeout per nine rate thus far in the minors at 5.91. Despite receiving a C+ from John Sickels heading into 2015 [an above average grade], Meisner was still considered a top 20 prospect in the Mets system. He also came into the season with serious sleeper potential. Part of the reason is his age and frame. At 20 years of age, Meisner has time to grow into his massive 6 foot 7, 190 pound frame and add some heat to his fastball and the rest of his arsenal. Meisner entered the league with a fastball that regularly sat in the high 80s and since his first season, has already added a few ticks to his velocity. His fastball now tops out around 94 mph, and he throws in the low 90s consistently. His curve — which looks a bit more like a slider — has improved dramatically since his debut year and has become a useful secondary pitch, though as Meisner grows, so should the accuracy of the pitch. His changeup still needs some work in the consistency department, but Meisner is still a project and won’t be asked to fill any rotation spots in Oakland anytime soon. As with most tall, lanky, young pitchers, Meisner is still working with consistencies in his delivery. The improvement he has shown since entering the Mets system is certainly trending in the right direction and he should find that repeated motion and be an able strike thrower. It seems that he also may have to learn how to pitch around hitters as opposed to simply pitching to them. This adjustment may be a factor as to why he has seen an increased number of walks per outing. It’s quite possible that he isn’t necessarily more "wild", but instead learning the ins and outs of the strike zone. While Meisner’s past few starts have shown some concern, it is important to keep in mind that the young righty has thrown a significant amount of innings more than he has in his first two professional seasons COMBINED. A combination of being at a higher level as well as his first full season has certainly shown his weaknesses, but by no means does it mean that he is any less the pitcher that he was at the start of 2015.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2015 10:49 PM Re: Relief pitching

I think the one-more-reliever concept of muscling up at the deadline is almost always an illusion — that one more doesn't typically widen the margin of error so much as make things more crowded. Improve the unit that's ranked at the bottom — that's where the room for improvement is. But hey, if he's assigned to be the lefty-killer that Álex Torres was never going to be, maybe there's room for him yet.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2015 11:55 PM Re: Relief pitching

So, yeah, options be damned, it has to be El Gorro Grande getting sent Vegasward, right?

Nymr83 Jul 28 2015 12:06 AM Re: Relief pitching

Terrible trade imo. You got back 20 to 25 innings of Tyler clippard. I don't think that's worth any decent prospect.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 28 2015 09:01 AM Re: Relief pitching

Centerfield Jul 28 2015 09:50 AM Re: Relief pitching

I like adding Clippard. I think he will be a nice addition the rest of the way. I have no idea who Casey Meisner is so I can't judge this trade. I just read recently that Jacob deGrom was offered to Boston for Kelly Shoppach. This leads me to believe no one in baseball can really spot a good prospect. Still, you have to take some risks, and this is a good one to take so long as they keep going and add quality bat before the deadline.

Ceetar Jul 28 2015 09:55 AM Re: Relief pitching

Centerfield wrote: I have no idea who Casey Meisner is so I can't judge this trade. I just read recently that Jacob deGrom was offered to Boston for Kelly Shoppach. This leads me to believe no one in baseball can really spot a good prospect. not quite, the Red Sox ASKED for deGrom and Alderson said no.

Vic Sage Jul 28 2015 11:25 AM Re: Relief pitching

i agree that, when your in a position to make a run at a post-season berth, you have to take some risks, and parting with a 2nd tier prospect is not the worst idea in the world. However, taking that risk on 2 months of another reliever (and Clippard's peripherals indicate a pitcher in decline) when the real need is a power bat or legit lead-off hitter seems to me a poor allocation of resources. So we've given up 3 young pitching prospects (albeit 2nd tier prospects) for some spare parts, which, to my mind, only makes sense if Sandy is now going to make the big move that can make a difference. Gomez makes some sense to me, but rumor mill says Milwaukee wants Brandon Nimmo, shortstop Amed Rosario and Zack Wheeler in return. I'd be tempted, because Gomez plays CF, can lead off or hit in the middle of the order, is not yet 30, and is signed through next season to a reasonable contract. If they would take Lagares instead of Nimmo, i might do that. They're also looking at Jay Bruce for Wheeler, infielder Gavin Cecchini, and two minor league Single-A prospects. Bruce isn't a CFer nor a leadoff hitter, but he's a little younger and cheaper with significantly more power, and i like his price tag a whole lot more. But if we bite on that, then Conforto goes down and Lagares stays in the lineup, unless Terry is willing to move Grandy back to CF after all these years. So is the difference between Bruce and Conforto over the next 2 months worth giving up that package? Maybe; i don't know.

Edgy MD Jul 28 2015 11:37 AM Re: Relief pitching

Vic Sage wrote: but rumor mill says Milwaukee wants Brandon Nimmo, shortstop Amed Rosario and Zack Wheeler in return. No, fucking, and way! Each of those guys is an anchor to a star package. Together, I'd consider packing them up for a perennial MVP candidate like Stanton, but not for Gomez. Wait... are the Brewers throwing in Parra? Segura? Their dignity?

Nymr83 Jul 28 2015 12:13 PM Re: Relief pitching

I'd ship those 3 out for Stanton before the Marlins could hang up the phone. There are different kinds of prospects, I'd put both Rosario and Nimmo in the "could be huge studs but could be total flame-out duds" category. neither of them has the "high floor" of say Conforto that makes me less want to trade a guy. Meanwhile, gavin cecchini, who never really fell behind in the "who will be ready first" contest has probably pulled back ahead of Rosario this year in the "more likely to be the SS of the future" and "more likely to have a solid career" categories. Trading should in part always be about absolute value (which is why i don't like Meisner for 20 innings of Clippard), but when you have multiple guys of similiar value which one you prefer deal depends on other factors, i would think Rosario has become more tradeable this year (with Cecchini's performance)and Nimmo less so (with Lagares floundering, Cuddyer sucking/hurt). Gomez looks like fool's gold. his range has dropped off and his basestealing disappeared too this year (he was hurt though i think?)

Edgy MD Jul 28 2015 12:27 PM Re: Relief pitching

Nymr83 wrote: I'd ship those 3 out for Stanton before the Marlins could hang up the phone. Shhh... not so loud. I'm trying to drive a hard bargain here.

Rockin' Doc Jul 28 2015 08:11 PM Re: Relief pitching

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: you pretty much gotta lean on Mejia heavily down the stretch right? completely burn him out? Oh yeah. Really, that is the rest of his punishment for getting caught using PEDs. If he's effective, he's got to be used as much as possible down the stretch. Terry will need to figure out where that breaking point is to avoid injury and ineffectiveness. Good thing the Mets didn't rely on Mejia's return. Terry won't have to worry about overusing that idiot.

Centerfield Jul 29 2015 07:19 AM Re: Relief pitching

I think the Mets bullpen will still be fine down the stretch. Clippard helps a lot. Hopefully Parnell will get stronger as more time passes. Blevins should be back soon. I think you tell Montero that he is going to be a setup guy the rest of the way and get his mindset ready to help the team. It would be nice to find the old Carlos Torres.

Vic Sage Jul 29 2015 09:04 AM Re: Relief pitching

what i said about Clippard? um, never mind. Damn Mejia. You'd think he could find a more effective masking agent by now.