Master Index of Archived Threads
Allez les Expos?
Mets – Willets Point Aug 20 2015 08:10 AM |
The New York Times reports that Montreal has baseball fever.
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 08:21 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I don't really believe that Montreal has baseball fever beyond a small subset.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 08:29 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I think we can rattle off 25 regions more deserving of an
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 08:37 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
[list=1:9m1zl4eh][*:9m1zl4eh]Connecticut[/*:m:9m1zl4eh]
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Mets – Willets Point Aug 20 2015 08:43 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Portland, San Antonio, Santo Domingo.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 08:49 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
The Sacramento Goldies!
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2015 09:14 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
antitrust exemption won;t allow a team in New Jersey even though it probably would work as a thing. Certainly couldn't hurt keeping Mets feet to the fire.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2015 09:22 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Tennessee. San Jose.
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 09:24 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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antitrust makes any expansion a tricky conversation in many cases.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 09:26 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Yeah, the real dream for me isn't adding a team here or removing a team there. It's blowing the anti-trust exemption sky-high.
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 09:36 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Let's blow away the blackout rules first, would save me some money.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2015 09:38 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I do think Northern New Jersey should have a team, and so should Connecticut. And there should be American League teams in Philadelphia and St. Louis, maybe not in the city but in the outer suburbs. (If the Athletics leave Oakland I'd love to see them go to King of Prussia, Pennsylvania.)
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Vic Sage Aug 20 2015 09:40 AM Re: Allez les Expos? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 03 2015 09:08 AM |
As the child of Brooklyn Dodger fans, i'm never in favor of a team abandoning a fan base so an owner can make more money elsewhere.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 09:50 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I'm certainly of the belief that they will and do use their exemption for their own benefit. And that they hurt baseball fans and damage the culture of the game every day with it.
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batmagadanleadoff Aug 20 2015 09:54 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Baseball has a Dallas team. The Texas Rangers, stadiumed in Arlington, TX, play in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. If baseball ever returns to Montreal, I'd hope that the new team is named the Expos and that they wear the original Expos uni. But best remaining market? That's easy. And it'll never happen. Brooklyn. TRIVIA: Buffalo, #3 on your list, is the only city/metropolitan area that was designated to host baseball in the proposed Continental League of the early '60s that, to date, never got an MLB franchise.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 10:01 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I know where the Texas Rangers play, but thanks for the map. Brooklyn has a team too, in the same spirit.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2015 10:07 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I always assumed it was named after Steve Dallas, of Bloom County.
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MFS62 Aug 20 2015 10:16 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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And every city that now has an American League team. That shit they play, without pitchers hitting or strategy, isn't really baseball. Oh, and screw Montreal. home runs should not be measures in meters. Later
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 10:19 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I certainly disagree. The metric system was one of the distinct charms about the team, along with Youppi! and French folk songs on the organ.
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 10:30 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I think all home runs should be measured in meters. I like the idea of a sub-100 meter home run. Only 2 or 3 this year so far, all at Fenway Park. Last year just two, one at Fenway and one at Tropicana.
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MFS62 Aug 20 2015 10:33 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I know. Its is one of the things about which my Canadian baseball fan friends and I kid each other. I once stumped one of them by sending him an email that said, "OK, so you measure gas in liters, temperature in Celsius and home runs in metres. (That's the way he spells it) I saw the box score for last night's Blue Jays game. It said the attendance was 18,674. How many people is that in American numbers"? He gave up. Later
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Frayed Knot Aug 20 2015 10:36 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
[fimg=300:3tlx6ow4]http://cdn.baseballamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/www.randomhouse.com_-197x300.jpeg[/fimg:3tlx6ow4]
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 10:45 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Between the Mets and Yanks and the minor league/independent teams
I think we should change your name from Optimistic Mets Fan to Contrary Mets Fan.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 10:48 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I think, really, there's room for about six teams in the New York City region. London has five Premier League football clubs (I think), and dozens more in the lesser divisions.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:01 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
It's fine the way it is. Baseball is dying, just ask SJR!
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Mets – Willets Point Aug 20 2015 11:03 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I also enjoyed seeing the lanceur surrender a coup de circuit. Actually the announcer at Stade Olympique did a great job of saying everything in French & then English, quickly but not sacrificing clarity.
I believe London has 14 clubs in the top four divisions (the Premier League and Football League), and has had as many as 7 in the Premier League at the same time.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:05 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Soccer clubs are like churches over there, baseball isn't that way here.
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 11:07 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Metric over US any day. Let sanity reign.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:08 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
They tried that when I was a kid, didn't last very long.
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Mets – Willets Point Aug 20 2015 11:12 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Kind of a chicken and an egg thing though since we've always had a franchise system with territorial rights. We'll never know what might have happened in the US with a club system.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 11:18 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Yeah, we just have artificial controls on which churches you can join, sucking all the fun out of church!! And... what Willets said.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:21 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Anyway, I'm anti-expansion and in the disliking more watering down
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:23 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
And, of course, if Brooklyn should ever get a team and wants to
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Ceetar Aug 20 2015 11:25 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I'm all for expansion myself. I don't think it'll water it down so much if you also push the boundaries of finding players. Plus more clubs means more interest means more kids pursuing it as a dream? Also, with more teams you get to keep the current playoff system of wildcards and lots of races late while lowering the percentage of teams actually making the postseason. Given the pitching situation these days, you could almost use some watering down. and screw soccer.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 11:30 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Nah, it never worked that way with the Dodgers, Yankees and Giants. This is America! You should be able to call yourself whatever you want!
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Mets – Willets Point Aug 20 2015 11:33 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Pro/Rel now!
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 11:36 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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You can call me not buying it, but we've been through this with the beloved Brooklyn Nets.
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Edgy MD Aug 20 2015 11:43 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
And the hapless Knicks weren't forced to change their name oh no.
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d'Kong76 Aug 20 2015 12:07 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I hate days when the Corona Casanovas are off.
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Gwreck Aug 20 2015 09:23 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
The London comparison is flawed because of the relative popularity of soccer there compared to everything else.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 20 2015 10:49 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Oh, God, I'd love this.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 03:33 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I wouldn't. I could easily see the Mets spending 8 to 10 years in AAA. It would be an interesting setup if I was an impartial observer.
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 04:52 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Changing American baseball to be more like English football is
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 06:22 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Chicken/egg. If we allow the billionaires to artificially control the proliferation of professional baseball, of course it's going to artificially control the popularity, too, and we have no one to blame but ourselves.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 06:24 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Yes, it's America, from where we spread the gospel of free markets. But we paradoxically run our sports leagues as cartels — presuming to control which consumers get access to major league ball, which pro-players are allowed to move to which teams, and which amateur players are allowed to begin their career, most of them getting chicken feed and they better like it. We believe it hurts both commerce and culture to let other industries operate this way, enriches the very few while gouging the consumer and cheating the entrepreneur, but in baseball, we accept it, because that's the way it was set up. But it's important to remember, that's the way it was set up in the Gilded Age — an era defined by robber barons, the greatest monopolies the country has ever known, gross exploitation, and deep social problems. The system we have is an outmoded vestige. To say it belongs in a museum is to understate it. It belongs in a very unpleasant museum.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 07:36 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I don't. Might include the WNBA though. Pro/reg would probably be a disaster. And I hate the concept anyway. Even if there was a time that free expansion of MLB outside of it's monopoly would've ingrained it into culture like soccer in other countries, that time is past. I think in Baseball today it'd diminish dedicated fanbases. Sure, there will always be a core, but it'd be smaller. Many people, probably me included, would find a 'pro' team to root for if the Mets got relegated. That might be fine at first, like having an AL team, but what two years down the road when I've fallen in love with the new team and players and their story and the Mets get promoted again and I'm not as attached?
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 07:40 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
If the Mets got sent down to AAA, I wouldn't find another team to root for, I'd just stop paying attention. It might take a year or so, but they'd totally lose me, and probably would never get me back.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 07:46 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
It wouldn't be AAA. And I don't expect the Mets would be relegated. Because they're awesome. And they have me supporting them.
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batmagadanleadoff Aug 21 2015 07:50 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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In light of your post, one might also reason that it's fitting that baseball continues to operate as a monopoly all these years later. After all, none of this has changed much:
Well, maybe we're doing a better job of reigning in monopolies, so long as they're not professional sports leagues. But as to the rest of that ... it's just as bad as it ever was.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 07:56 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I expect there's probably a way to create a fair and just system that doesn't include the possibility of a team dropping out of the major leagues.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 08:00 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I notice that you're not really thinking like a winner, here.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 08:08 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
In 45 years as a Mets fan, I've seen quite a bit of losing!
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 08:54 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Anyone can access major league baseball. Pro-players sign contracts and have an intricately negotiated agreement and can strike, amatuer players begin when they make a the team (it's frickin' sports, Edge), and most minor league players aren't poor.The players have the most powerful union in the country.
Hard to beleive you feel so strongly about all those things and still devote so much love and time to such a vile picture you painted from your podium.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 09:15 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I want to start a team in Boise. I am unallowed to sign Max Scherzer no matter how much money I give him. If I even begin to negotiate with him, it's made clear to him and everybody else that they will never play big league ball again. Boise fans can go get wet. The backlash would be even more vicious if I started my team in Park Slope.
Under terms that are anathema to the rest of US employment law.
Amateur players begin their pro careers by being told they'll play for who the industry wants them to play for, no matter what their preference.
Until a minor league player is placed on a 40-man roster, monthly salaries are $1150 for the short season teams, $1300 for low A and $1500 for high A. For players repeating a year at the same level, the salary goes up $50 each year. For AA, the monthly salary is $1700 and it goes up $100 per month for subsequent years. For AAA, the monthly salary is $2150 per month and it goes up to $2400 the second year and $2700 the third year. (source)
Minor league players aren't allowed in the union.
I don't believe I'm on a podium, but rather just responding in the natural course of the conversation. I like the game, but disagree with the system of the industry and its captains. I take that a lot of folks here dislike the captains far more than I do, but still pursue the joys of the game. Montreal should have a team that some guy in an office in New York can't just decide will cease to exist.
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 09:25 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I looked up the minor league salary stories too and was just going
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 09:27 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
As for the other stuff, I'm aware of all of it but really don't care. It's
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 09:28 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Oh, and god save the queen.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 09:42 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Sure, it ain't much, but neither is it nothing. But it sure isn't based on what the market will bear.
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 09:48 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I'd be more than happy to go play A ball for $1,000/month...
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 09:56 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Also, there are plenty of other industries/trades where young people work for
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 10:06 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I think you miss the spirit of the thing. I like to think I would too, but my skills don't allow it. If I was the rare man who did have the skills and the small window of opportunity in my youth still remaining, I would hope it was worth more than $6,000 per year. Along with an understanding that if I tried to shop my skills to another team, the whole industry would blackball me. And the rich get richer. As for the analogy of interns in other industries, many of those are exploitative too, and courts are starting to say so. But at least you have professional freedom of movement.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 10:11 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
There ARE some independent leagues. And other countries.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 10:18 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Yes. This is well known to the general baseball fan.
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d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 10:19 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Nah, I get it.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 10:24 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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and to many of the players as well!
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 10:27 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 10:32 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
The Long Island Ducks, and the Japanese leagues, and (probably not the Australian league, since that's sort of MLB) other countries are allowed to sign Max Scherzer when his contract expires.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 10:38 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Yeah, like the Long Island Ducks would be a viable option for Max Scherzer.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 10:40 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Reductionism is a terrible way to argue. You assume the stupidity of your opponent while engaging in willful ignorance of your own. Please stop.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 10:49 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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I'm not arguing anything. I'm merely pointing out facts that (should) contribute to the discussion. But maybe you're so set on how things should be you're just going to dismiss them as anomalies? I mean, there's no similar rules for the other sports right? But I don't see competing leagues taking off. CFL isn't even televised here and it might even be a better game. If they dropped the monopoly today, Where is your Boise team playing? Against who? Why would Scherzer or hell Puello, even consider playing for them? Where are they getting the money to pay competitive rates anyway?
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 10:52 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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Here's two other facts: grass is green and the sky is blue. See how infuriating that is?
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 11:02 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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my facts were relevant to MLB's monopoly and your point that the Boise Huskers couldn't sign Max Scherzer, when in fact they can.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 11:04 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Your facts were obvious to any middle schooler and already understood within the context of the conversation.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2015 11:04 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
To get back on topic any time there's been a threat of a competing league it has led almost directly to large increases in salaries, new teams (the Mets) and/or both. Shirley its only a matter of time before the right alignment of talent and agent blows up the draft.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2015 11:28 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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="Ceetar, 12]My facts were relevant to MLB's monopoly and your point that the Boise Huskers couldn't sign Max Scherzer, when in fact they can. |
d'Kong76 Aug 21 2015 11:40 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I think he meant a) they wouldn't be able to afford him (can't) b) they
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Ceetar Aug 21 2015 11:53 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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yeah, that. on both accounts.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 11:57 AM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I'm not speaking on behalf of soccer, so much as against anti-competitive behavior.
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Frayed Knot Aug 21 2015 12:22 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
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The problem with killing the draft is that it's treated legally as something that's been bargained into place -- as opposed to the old reserve clause which was forced on the players in contradiction to all laws -- so the remedy, according to several court decisions, would be for the players to collectively bargain it out of existence. It's how the NFL, with even less competition to their league as compared to other sports, gets away with not just having a draft but also with dictating exactly when (with maybe a one-year window) a player can apply for it. IOW, it's not something that's going to be over-turned merely by some highly-aggressive agent attached to a prodigious young talent.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2015 12:40 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
I'm not so sure I concur. The draft, as much as it may be treated as such with regard to professionals, was never bargained into place by the amateur talent it most affects as they seek their first professional opportunities. If two agents and 10 high-end prospects announce that they have no intention of negotiating only with one team, it'd terrify MLB lawyers, and shake them to their core.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2015 12:46 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
Yeah I'm sure there's enough legal wiggle room to make a stand anyway.
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Frayed Knot Aug 21 2015 12:58 PM Re: Allez les Expos? |
More than a few legal challenges have been made to the NFL's draft by players who didn't even want to circumvent the draft but just wanted to enter a year earlier than the rule says they can and even that minor point couldn't get past a court.
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