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Harvey's innings

HahnSolo Sep 04 2015 10:39 AM

Per Jon Heyman, Sandy and Boras at odds over Matt's innings moving forward… [url]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25290191/how-much-will-matt-harvey-pitch-innings-limit-debate-coming-to-a-head Boras says it's not him but the doctors who are making the determination to limit Harvey to 180 innings, and the doctors are the ones the Mets have no choice but to abide. If Harvey has just two starts left this year, it's hard to see how much, if any, playoff impact he might have. "This is not a club's decision. This is a doctor's decision," Boras said. "Any club that chooses to defy a surgeon's wishes is putting the player in peril." I always thought it was the club's decision myself. Alderson, however, contends the parties spoke before the season about protecting Harvey by having some innings limitations, and that they "see no reason to deviate from the original plan." Alderson also says that the Mets had a "soft" limit all along he felt was acceptable to all. He maintains that he has been in consultation with doctors as well. But Boras said, "Expert opinion by medical practitioners is not a soft number. There are no soft numbers. These are medical practitioners providing opinions about when a pitcher is at risk, and when a pitcher isn't at risk." Expert opinion is still opinion. The GM also said that they had an approximate innings limit in mind, but he didn't name it and said that it wasn't hard and fast, anyway. "We had a soft target, and we really don't expect to go much above it,' Alderson said. Boras counters that "there are no soft numbers" and that "this is not a negotiation." Mets people seem to have the idea Boras has influence over the doctors, but Boras said that isn't so -- though he contended his own research does tell him pitchers returning after Tommy John surgery do better long-term with lower innings totals, naming Shaun Marcum and a few others who exceeded previous totals, and later ran into more arm trouble. "These are doctors' opinions," Boras said. "And club officials are not determining how many innings he can pitch. Matt Harvey would love to pitch. But the surgeon who saved his career and other surgeons consulted have said that for maximum safety he is not to exceed 180 innings for the year." Alderson conceded there may be a "slightly enhanced" risk if a pitcher goes past 180 innings, and one "doesn't need a medical degree to say that." I worry this is going to get ugly.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 10:42 AM Re: Harvey's innings

no it's not, Boras is a blowhard. Mets will do what they were planning to do the whole time, which appears to be skip another start and let him pitch in the playoffs.

HahnSolo Sep 04 2015 10:46 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: no it's not, Boras is a blowhard. Which is exactly why I worry this is going to get very public and very ugly. I'm in agreement that the Mets will stick to their plan (whatever it is), that doesn't mean Boras won't fan the flames and the media won't eat it up and spit it out.

soupcan Sep 04 2015 10:53 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Ugly or not, my feeling is that Harvey is not going to be a long term Met so I'm not going to get my panties in a twist about it. I love Harv but he just doesn't strike me as the type to be happy in Queens. He's a money guy. Boras will, as Boras does, encourage him toward the biggest contract and we all know that it won't be the one the Mets are offering. He'll wind up in Anaheim or Texas.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 10:53 AM Re: Harvey's innings

HahnSolo wrote: Ceetar wrote: no it's not, Boras is a blowhard. Which is exactly why I worry this is going to get very public and very ugly. I'm in agreement that the Mets will stick to their plan (whatever it is), that doesn't mean Boras won't fan the flames and the media won't eat it up and spit it out. Well sure, Heyman's basically a Boras spokesperson anyway and the media loves this stuff. But the Mets are awesome and winning trumps it all. It's only when no one wants to talk about the games that setting shit on fire dominates the discussion.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 10:55 AM Re: Harvey's innings

No agent wants to hit free agency with an injured pitcher. Neither does he want to hit free agency with a pitcher whose agent begs him off the post-season roster. If Boras is in earnest, he should have made his case in private.

Fman99 Sep 04 2015 11:55 AM Re: Harvey's innings

soupcan wrote: Ugly or not, my feeling is that Harvey is not going to be a long term Met so I'm not going to get my panties in a twist about it. I love Harv but he just doesn't strike me as the type to be happy in Queens. He's a money guy. Boras will, as Boras does, encourage him toward the biggest contract and we all know that it won't be the one the Mets are offering. He'll wind up in Anaheim or Texas. I bet he's researching the quality of the Colorado school systems right now.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 04 2015 12:04 PM Re: Harvey's innings

My feeling is, and has been, that the Mets should trade him after the 2016 season. He'll be two years from free agency and (assuming he's healthy, of course) his trade value will probably be very high.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 12:06 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Harvester has pictures of Monument Park in his den I bet. He'll be a true Yankee for sure at some point.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 12:16 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I don't know, but I certainly hope that if he becomes a Yankee, he never becomes a true one.

Lefty Specialist Sep 04 2015 12:19 PM Re: Harvey's innings

If Harvey goes along with this, the fans are going to turn on HIM. The Mets have been talking about this IN PUBLIC for the entire year. Boras could have said something in June or July but chose not to. He's doing it now to put the screws to the Mets. How did limiting Strasburg's innings work out? He's been injury-free ever since, right? If they insist on the 180 limit, shut him down right now and go with a 5-man rotation. Fuck Boras.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 12:24 PM Re: Harvey's innings

That's pretty much what would have to happen. But it's not what Boras is angling for. He's criticizing but not insisting. And certainly not putting his client in the position of insisting. That way, when Harvey gets injured down the road — which experience suggests will happen, sooner or later — he has planted the seeds to retro-shame the team. LOLMETS!!11!! I just need to get me some Quallcomm.

Gwreck Sep 04 2015 12:52 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My feeling is, and has been, that the Mets should trade him after the 2016 season. He'll be two years from free agency and (assuming he's healthy, of course) his trade value will probably be very high. I guess it would depend on what kind of position player the Mets would get in return but that makes a lot of sense, particularly once the Mets have a better idea of how well Wheeler will be coming back form surgery.

TransMonk Sep 04 2015 12:54 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My feeling is, and has been, that the Mets should trade him after the 2016 season. He'll be two years from free agency and (assuming he's healthy, of course) his trade value will probably be very high. I hope the Mets win a ring or two before that point, though.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 01:13 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Just an aside... if the Mets make the playoffs the next two years and have some success or even better and they can't afford to start locking up a few of their key players for big money they shouldn't be allowed (and don't deserve) to own a team in New York.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 01:17 PM Re: Harvey's innings

d'Kong76 wrote: Just an aside... if the Mets make the playoffs the next two years and have some success or even better and they can't afford to start locking up a few of their key players for big money they shouldn't be allowed (and don't deserve) to own a team in New York. That's not an aside, it's practically worthless. Of course the Mets would have the money. Should they happen to, years in the future, decide not to offer Harvey or another player an extension it's likely due to non-financial reasons.

seawolf17 Sep 04 2015 01:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

soupcan wrote: Ugly or not, my feeling is that Harvey is not going to be a long term Met so I'm not going to get my panties in a twist about it. I love Harv but he just doesn't strike me as the type to be happy in Queens. He's a money guy. Boras will, as Boras does, encourage him toward the biggest contract and we all know that it won't be the one the Mets are offering. He'll wind up in Anaheim or Texas. I think this too. I can't get worked up over this; it's Boras doing his job. If Harvey pitches 200 innings and stays healthy, then nothing comes of it; if he gets hurt, then Boras can say "I told you so," which endears him to his clients, which is all he cares about.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 01:21 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: That's not an aside, it's practically worthless. Of course the Mets would have the money. Should they happen to, years in the future, decide not to offer Harvey or another player an extension it's likely due to non-financial reasons. Let's hope so, but cheap is cheap and Boras doesn't accept coupons.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 01:27 PM Re: Harvey's innings

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: That's not an aside, it's practically worthless. Of course the Mets would have the money. Should they happen to, years in the future, decide not to offer Harvey or another player an extension it's likely due to non-financial reasons. Let's hope so, but cheap is cheap and Boras doesn't accept coupons. I'd have to look. Have NO Boras clients signed pre-FA extensions? The whole point of extensions is trading the security of a contract for a few less bucks overall. Especially for pitchers. By waiting out say two years you're basically gambling that you won't get hurt against what, 10% more money? That Boras generally seems dismissive of this risk is detrimental to his clients and it's really no surprise that you see a lot of guys cut ties with him and at least one GM that he hasn't even spoken to directly in 10 years.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 01:35 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I know this is the Harvey thread, but I mean locking up some core talent in general by opening up the dusty checkbook. $uccess should put them back in the big market category. If not, rinse repeat what I said above.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 01:38 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I don't think anybody accepts coupons. John Mayberry supposedly came to the Mets at a cheaper rate than the Cardinals were offering because he thought he'd get more trips to the plate and be able to put up some loftier stats for next year's market. Oops. But such bets against the future aside, I don't think anybody accepts coupons. If Harvey signs here, it's because the Mets are getting him at the price they think he's worth. I'm not sweating it. I'm confident the Mets hope to lock up core talent. I'm more confident that they hope to sweep through the post-season first.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 01:38 PM Re: Harvey's innings

d'Kong76 wrote: I know this is the Harvey thread, but I mean locking up some core talent in general by opening up the dusty checkbook. $uccess should put them back in the big market category. If not, rinse repeat what I said above. Niese, Lagares, they considered/started the process with Duda. They're already doing that?

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 01:43 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think anybody accepts coupons. I know coupons is old and dumb, I had a weak moment.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 01:48 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: Niese, Lagares, they considered/started the process with Duda. They're already doing that? Not to be rude, but defending the Wilpons just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

Ceetar Sep 04 2015 01:57 PM Re: Harvey's innings

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: Niese, Lagares, they considered/started the process with Duda. They're already doing that? Not to be rude, but defending the Wilpons just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I'm not defending them, but the narrative is tired. If the Mets spend 100 it's why don't they spend 120? if they spend 120 it's why don't they spend 140? You said they need to extend players because it's what teams in big markets do, well, they're doing that. Why wouldn't it continue? Regardless of how far the Mets go, this is going to come up next with Cespedes because he's playing well above his talent level for the Mets and his talent level and age isn't really the kind of player you need to spend $60+ on. It's the perfect storm of a good baseball move to pass on him that could be pointed to as blaming the finances.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 02:04 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: Regardless of how far the Mets go, this is going to come up next with Cespedes because he's playing well above his talent level for the Mets and his talent level and age isn't really the kind of player you need to spend $60+ on. It's the perfect storm of a good baseball move to pass on him that could be pointed to as blaming the finances. Nah, his contract is a whole 'nother ball of wax. Most sensible people know he probably won't be back.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 04 2015 02:10 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Scott Boras likes to find the one dumb owner who will overpay, dramatically, for his client. If the Mets wisely choose to not be that one dumb team, then I won't find fault with that. I think that's how it will play out with Harvey. I don't think, in this case at least, it's going to be about the Wilpons.

Zvon Sep 04 2015 02:56 PM Re: Harvey's innings

If I was a reporter I'd head right to Harvey and ask him what he thinks. That should stir up further shit, hopefully between Matt and Boras. As far as the innings limit the Mets have been moving forward with that in mind and acting in support of such a limit, and that's all you can do. What the fuck does Boras want? If it's to put Harvey on a shelf I think Matt will have issue with that. This inning stuff will be worked out. Sandy has gone on record stating that if the Mets make the post season all restrictions on pitchers will be lifted, and that was my major concern when it came to an innings limits. Other than that it's just some bullshit that a manger has to contend with. As is Boras to a GM.

Lefty Specialist Sep 04 2015 03:13 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I think everybody with a microphone will be sticking it in Matt's face right about now. He's going to have to say something.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 03:49 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Adam Rubin reporting that the Mets will ride Harvey like a Turkish stallion in the playoffs, blast past any innings limits, and laugh and point whenever Boras sticks his head up above the water. He further reports that Harvey will sign with the Yankees at his earliest opportunity and become the first player ever to hit the disabled list over an injury that incurred while signing his contract. Yankees Pitching Coach Lawrence Lee "Larry" Rothschild will decry that the Mets over-worked Harvey's signing musles by forcing him to sign all those baseballs and programs for children. Dan Warthan will officially respond with the words "Ho, ho, ho." After missing all six years of his Yankee contract with the exception of occasional rehab games, the Mets will sign Harvey to an incentive laden minor league deal. He'll eventually get into good enough shape to proved 14 more-or-less successful garbage innings down the stretch, but the zip won't be there, and the pain won't go away, and Harvey will retire at the end of the 2025 season, focusing on his marriage and skin care product endorsements. It seems Rubin did a lot of ground work on that piece.

Zvon Sep 04 2015 03:56 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Edgy MD wrote: Adam Rubin reporting that the Mets will ride Harvey like a Turkish stallion in the playoffs, blast past any innings limits, and laugh and point whenever Boras sticks his head up above the water. He further reports that Harvey will sign with the Yankees at his earliest opportunity and become the first player ever to hit the disabled list over an injury that incurred while signing his contract. Yankees Pitching Coach Lawrence Lee "Larry" Rothschild will decry that the Mets over-worked Harvey's signing musles by forcing him to sign all those baseballs and programs for children. Dan Warthan will officially respond with the words "Ho, ho, ho." After missing all six years of his Yankee contract with the exception of occasional rehab games, the Mets will sign Harvey to an incentive laden minor league deal. He'll eventually get into good enough shape to proved 14 more-or-less successful garbage innings down the stretch, but the zip won't be there, and the pain won't go away, and Harvey will retire at the end of the 2025 season, focusing on his marriage and skin care product endorsements. It seems Rubin did a lot of ground work on that piece. In the alternate universe things went differently due to a new procedure called Larry Rothchild Surgery.

Ashie62 Sep 04 2015 04:05 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Not looking ahead but Harvey did look tired in his last start.

Rockin' Doc Sep 04 2015 07:09 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Niese, Lagares, they considered/started the process with Duda. They're already doing that? Not to be rude, but defending the Wilpons just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I'm not defending them, but the narrative is tired. If the Mets spend 100 it's why don't they spend 120? if they spend 120 it's why don't they spend 140? You said they need to extend players because it's what teams in big markets do, well, they're doing that. Why wouldn't it continue? It is old and tired because the Mets payroll has been flat (or reducing ) for the past decade. The Mets team payroll for 2015 ($101,409,244) is 21st out of 30 teams and trails behind such small market teams as Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, and Seattle. The Mets 2015 payroll is less than their team payroll for 2005 ($104,770,139) which at the time trailed only the Yankees and Red Sox. So over the past decades, the Mets team payroll has essentially remained flat while their competition has continued to increase their salaries. Had my partners and I had done the same with the staff salaries for our 14 employees at our office, I feel certain that the majority of them would have left our employ and our business would have suffered as we were forced to hire undertrained, inexperienced staff that could not provide the high level quality of care that our patients have come to expect.

dgwphotography Sep 04 2015 07:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Rockin' Doc wrote: Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Niese, Lagares, they considered/started the process with Duda. They're already doing that? Not to be rude, but defending the Wilpons just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I'm not defending them, but the narrative is tired. If the Mets spend 100 it's why don't they spend 120? if they spend 120 it's why don't they spend 140? You said they need to extend players because it's what teams in big markets do, well, they're doing that. Why wouldn't it continue? It is old and tired because the Mets payroll has been flat (or reducing ) for the past decade. The Mets team payroll for 2015 ($101,409,244) is 21st out of 30 teams and trails behind such small market teams as Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, and Seattle. The Mets 2015 payroll is less than their team payroll for 2005 ($104,770,139) which at the time trailed only the Yankees and Red Sox. So over the past decades, the Mets team payroll has essentially remained flat while their competition has continued to increase their salaries. Had my partners and I had done the same with the staff salaries for our 14 employees at our office, I feel certain that the majority of them would have left our employ and our business would have suffered as we were forced to hire undertrained, inexperienced staff that could not provide the high level quality of care that our patients have come to expect. 21st in payroll, yet 7th in Fan Cost Index. That sounds right...

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 09:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

There's a lot of ways to describe the Mets payroll, but I certainly wouldn't call it flat.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 09:20 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Season 25-Man Opening Day Payroll 40-Man Ultimate Payroll 2009 $149,373,987 $142,229,759 2010 $126,498,096 $127,560,042 2011 $142,797,166 $142,244,744 2012 $94,508,822 $103,710,802 2013 $93,684,590 $95,128,685 2014 $84,951,365 $92,856,260 2015 $101,344,283 $?? But certainly projecting far higher

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2015 09:29 PM Re: Harvey's innings

There's a lot of ways to describe the Mets payroll, but I certainly wouldn't call it fat.

Rockin' Doc Sep 04 2015 09:38 PM Re: Harvey's innings

My point was that it was virtually unchanged in total payroll expenditure for 2015 vs. 2005. There was a period in which they increased payroll (2007-2011), but then the team drastically reduced payroll so that it was either below below that of 2005 and eventually returned to that level this year. So I agree, flat wasn't the best description for the payroll over the past decade. It was more like a rollercoaster ride to nowhere in which the majority of their competitors passed them by. I believe my point, that the club has not financially invested in personnel at a rate that has kept pace with the majority of the teams throughout MLB. The net effect is that over the decade, the Mets dropped 20 spots in total team payroll, relative to their competitors. Virtually all of that decline has occured in the past 4-5 years.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2015 09:48 PM Re: Harvey's innings

You also initially stated that the trend, such as it is, has occurred over decades, when in fact it's occurred since 2011, over four years. The facts are bad enough, but the difference is important.

Rockin' Doc Sep 04 2015 10:24 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I was responding to Ceetar's defense of the Mets ownership and his assertion that the "narrative" that Mets don't invest in making the team is "tired". I was illustrating that there was a reason why the story has persisted for so long, because there is a longstanding factual basis for the argument. The fact that the Mets dropped 19 spots in total team payroll since 2009 still illustrates my basic point that the ownership of the Mets have not financially invested in making the Mets competitive. That trend certainly doesn't make me feel hopeful regarding the Mets retaining (or acquiring) the players they need to maintain and improve the team in the coming years.

G-Fafif Sep 05 2015 04:03 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Rohan of the Times: Harvey indicated that he knew "for a while" that 180 would be the limit. Dr. Andrews told him again about a week ago Harvey, via Rohan, also says 180 is the number floating around because most MH has throw in a season is 179. Why is Harvey talking to Dr. Andrews a week ago? I mean a normal person can talk to whatever surgeon he likes, but don't be that way. Be fine, damn it. (My bedside manner would be beyond reproach.) Rohan: Matt Harvey says he's staying out of the debate, but also said multiple times he hired Boras for a reason, to protect his best interests The following from Rubin: Matt Harvey says he's focused on Tuesday. Asked if he'd pitch in playoffs, said he's focused on Tuesday. Asked who makes call. Same answer.

G-Fafif Sep 05 2015 04:06 PM Re: Harvey's innings

DiComo, with editorializing coda: Matt Harvey tells reporters that he's always considered 180 IP a limit, and won't answer questions about the playoffs. Can't believe this.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 05 2015 04:34 PM Re: Harvey's innings

In the context of this exchange, the payroll's not flat. Its' worse than flat. Flat would be an extremely rosy colored description of the team payroll. The idea that it's flat because this year's payroll is about the same as it was in 2005 and that therefore, it's been flat in that time is too flattering. The 2015 numbers are raw, unadjusted for 10 years worth of inflation and 10 years worth of hellzapoppin' record-setting revenue increases for baseball teams. Adjusting for all of that, if the Mets payroll were $10M or -$15M less than what it was in 2005, it'd still be worse than flat.

Lefty Specialist Sep 05 2015 04:45 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I'm done with Harvey. Trade his ass for a package of useful players who won't quit.

Gwreck Sep 05 2015 05:14 PM Re: Harvey's innings

There are three possibilities I see here: 1. The Mets never properly documented the discussions with Harvey and the medical staff about innings limits and/or never had these discussions. Unlikely, but the Mets haven't earned the benefit of my doubt on much. Barring this, 2. If Harvey has now decided that he will not pitch after 180 innings, he is an insubordinate employee. The Mets will suspend his ass, dock his pay, and do who knows what. The union will file a grievance, which the Mets should win (barring the circumstances of #1 above or #3 below), and the Mets will need to trade him this offseason. Harvey becomes Mets fan enemy no. 1. 3. Harvey is in some fashion hurt.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2015 05:23 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Rockin' Doc wrote: I was responding to Ceetar's defense of the Mets ownership and his assertion that the "narrative" that Mets don't invest in making the team is "tired". I was illustrating that there was a reason why the story has persisted for so long, because there is a longstanding factual basis for the argument. It's pretty shortstanding, and certainly not decades. And of course, trend lines being funny things, the payroll spending trend is up since 2013, which makes sense.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 05 2015 05:40 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I was wrong about Harvey. He's not a douchebag. He's a goatsucking diva douchebag.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 05 2015 05:43 PM Re: Harvey's innings

edited: batmagadanleadoff wrote: In the context of this exchange, the payroll's not flat. Its' worse than flat. Flat would be an extremely rosy colored description of the team payroll. The idea that it's flat because this year's payroll is about the same as it was in 2005 and that therefore, it's been flat in that time is too flattering. The 2015 numbers are raw, unadjusted for 10 years worth of inflation and 10 years worth of hellzapoppin' record-setting revenue increases for baseball teams. Adjusting for all of that, if the Mets payroll were $10M or -$15M [crossout]less[/crossout] more than what it was in 2005, it'd still be worse than flat.

Lefty Specialist Sep 05 2015 05:57 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Gwreck wrote: There are three possibilities I see here: 1. The Mets never properly documented the discussions with Harvey and the medical staff about innings limits and/or never had these discussions. Unlikely, but the Mets haven't earned the benefit of my doubt on much. Barring this, 2. If Harvey has now decided that he will not pitch after 180 innings, he is an insubordinate employee. The Mets will suspend his ass, dock his pay, and do who knows what. The union will file a grievance, which the Mets should win (barring the circumstances of #1 above or #3 below), and the Mets will need to trade him this offseason. Harvey becomes Mets fan enemy no. 1. 3. Harvey is in some fashion hurt. As for #1, I'm assuming Harvey can count. He had to know that once he was pitching regularly he'd be bumping up against 180 innings. He didn't just say, "Oh shit, I'm almost to 180, I better tell Scott!" in the middle of August. There's been gallons of ink spilled about how the Mets were carefully limiting his innings, and gallons more about how Harvey didn't like those restrictions. He came across as a gamer, a warrior, then. Now he comes across as a bullshit artist more worried about his future payday then his team. As for #2, the Mets won't force him to pitch. That'll be bad for everybody. As for #3, if he's hurt, he could have said so and avoided all of this. So I don't think that's an issue. But Sandy should start soliciting offers right now and let a bidding war begin for his services in the offseason. Preferably someplace that the Mets won't play much. Colorado would be ideal (as punishment). Lots of good young players in Oakland. Send him far away.

Frayed Knot Sep 05 2015 06:12 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Matt Harvey says he's staying out of the debate, but also said multiple times he hired Boras for a reason, to protect his best interests ... [and] says he's focused on Tuesday. Asked if he'd pitch in playoffs, said he's focused on Tuesday. Asked who makes call. Same answer. He also said he had no idea the messages he and Boras were exchanging were considered classified and that he thought all agents had their own dedicated server. He also regrets that most of the emails between he, his agent, and Dr. Andrews have been erased but he has no idea how that all happened.

d'Kong76 Sep 05 2015 06:22 PM Re: Harvey's innings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 05 2015 06:37 PM

[crossout]@juanlagares2 CF #DavidWright 3B @ynscspds LF Uribe 2B d'Arnaud C Flores SS Campbell 1B @EYJr RF Colon P @kcmets #cpftoocool[/crossout]

d'Kong76 Sep 05 2015 06:23 PM Re: Harvey's innings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 05 2015 06:36 PM

[crossout:2c7c9nlm]d'Arboom for 3, next pitch Floreboom for another! Turned on the tube just in time.[/crossout:2c7c9nlm]

Rockin' Doc Sep 05 2015 06:34 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I have no use for a player that essentially quits on his teammates. If Harvey isn't hurt and he refuses to pitch down the stretch or in the post-season, then I think the Mets should trade him at the end of the season.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 05 2015 06:38 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Wasn't Harvey bitching earlier this season about not wanting to be pitch-limited?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 05 2015 06:49 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Yes he's a cunty pussy.

Lefty Specialist Sep 05 2015 07:21 PM Re: Harvey's innings

"Remember kids, Numero Uno is more important than you. And no refunds on those Dark Knight shirts."

SteveJRogers Sep 05 2015 07:27 PM Re: Harvey's innings

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself as the villain. -Harvey "Two-Face" Dent, The Dark Knight

Frayed Knot Sep 05 2015 07:32 PM Re: Harvey's innings

"Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy" -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

Edgy MD Sep 05 2015 09:46 PM Re: Harvey's innings

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I was wrong about Harvey. He's not a douchebag. He's a goatsucking diva douchebag. "The lighter the shirt I am wearing, the more my eyes pop."

Chad Ochoseis Sep 05 2015 10:06 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Gwreck wrote: There are three possibilities I see here: 1. The Mets never properly documented the discussions with Harvey and the medical staff about innings limits and/or never had these discussions. Unlikely, but the Mets haven't earned the benefit of my doubt on much. Barring this, 2. If Harvey has now decided that he will not pitch after 180 innings, he is an insubordinate employee. The Mets will suspend his ass, dock his pay, and do who knows what. The union will file a grievance, which the Mets should win (barring the circumstances of #1 above or #3 below), and the Mets will need to trade him this offseason. Harvey becomes Mets fan enemy no. 1. 3. Harvey is in some fashion hurt. This is why this story is so puzzling. 1 would require way too much stupidity on the part of Mets management. As far as 2, Harvey has frequently shown himself to be a self-centered douchebag, but he's never shown himself to be a fool when it comes to managing his image. He'd have to know the kind of shitstorm that would result from him telling a writer that he wasn't planning to pitch more than 180 innings this season. Even if he really wants to sit out the playoffs, he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut and let Boras take the blame. For 3, it would be easier just to say "Harvey's hurt" and be done with it. So I dunno. I'm guessing 4 - the media took a Harvey quote out of context and ran with it, Harvey will be there for the postseason, and there's nothing to see here.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2015 10:08 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Chad Ochoseis wrote: s far as 2, Harvey has frequently shown himself to be a self-centered douchebag, but he's never shown himself to be a fool when it comes to managing his image. I would question that assertion. So would Qualcomm. I'm inclined to think, though, that yes, he will be pitching in the post-season, provided there is one to pitch in.

Nymr83 Sep 05 2015 11:13 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Fuck Boras. and the Mets should run Harvey into the ground if it means a shot at a world series - THAT is the goal, not keeping pitchers arms in better shape for their next employer.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 06 2015 05:40 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I'm totally down with Ken Davidoff's suggestion. It's long been my feeling that the Mets should trade Harvey after the 2016 season, but given recent developments I'm perfectly okay with advancing that to after the 2015 season. I really hope it happens. Ken Davidoff, The New York Post wrote: The Mets have the perfect opening to trade Matt Harvey MIAMI — Down the road, we might look back on what transpired Saturday and realize Matt Harvey did the Mets a favor. The diva right-hander just made it 180 times easier for the Mets, ever aware of how their actions play on the streets, to do what they should have done, anyway, this coming offseason. Yes, it’s time to start working on a Harvey trade. Harvey dropped a cartoon-sized bomb on his employers Saturday, one that will produce consequences both short-term and long-term. In the dispute between Harvey’s agent Scott Boras and the Mets concerning the 26-year-old’s workload, Harvey sided decisively with his representative, refusing to say he would pitch beyond 180 innings this season and even offering that orthopedist James Andrews, who performed Harvey’s 2013 Tommy John surgery, told him personally of that hard, 180-innings threshold Boras first revealed on Friday (and which the Mets dispute). “I hired Dr. Andrews to do my surgery, and I hired Scott, for a reason,” Harvey, who currently has 166¹/3 innings pitched on the season, said before Bartolo Colon and the Mets blanked the Marlins, 7-0, at Marlins Park. “That’s to prolong my career and get in the best possible position moving forward.” Hence the Mets have a crisis on their hands. General manager Sandy Alderson, who thought that he had the Harvey-innings situation under control, will meet with Harvey on Monday in Washington and seek resolution. At the moment, though, you wonder a) whether Harvey will suit up at all in the postseason, and b) how much that hinders the team’s chances, or even c) if this drama will sap the Mets of energy they need merely to qualify for the playoffs. In crisis, the Mets must view opportunity. Until quite recently, too, most of the Mets’ fan base seemed enamored with Harvey and willfully blind to his dark side. On Saturday, Harvey couldn’t have showcased his dark side any more prominently. Burning a Mike Piazza jersey on the Citi Field grass would have been subtle by comparison. But Harvey’s personality didn’t magically become a problem overnight. Few have embraced celebrity and its many trappings as quickly as did Harvey, and with that has arrived a high-maintenance personality. Really, what’s most galling about Harvey’s change of heart — his 180, if you will — is that he led the revolt earlier this season against the Mets’ six-man starting rotation, a plan designed expressly to help manage the innings of Harvey and his fellow youngsters. Don’t hate on Boras for doing his job as player advocate. It’s Harvey who constructed the Tough Guy narrative, only to jettison it in crunch time. So Harvey, even if he turns back around and retreats from his retreat, has seriously damaged his standing in Flushing. In the baseball industry? Eh. While no club will take the player’s side in this dispute, none would offer a flat “No” on a pitcher who currently owns a 145 ERA+ in those 166?¹/3 innings and has three years of control left before free agency. The Mets should go through on this because they have stockpiled enough starting pitching to envision perennial competition without Harvey. Jacob deGrom, Steven Matz, Jon Niese and Noah Syndergaard fronting a rotation to kick off 2016, with Zack Wheeler working to return midseason? Yup, that’d work … assuming the Mets score runs more like August and September and less like April through July. And the best way to beef up that offense, what with rentals Yoenis Cespedes, Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe as well as homegrown Daniel Murphy all likely to depart? Use Harvey to get someone impactful in return. How about Colorado outfielder Carlos Gonzalez? Or Giants shortstop Brandon Crawford? Or Royals center fielder Lorenzo Cain? Or Twins second baseman Brian Dozier? Just spitballing here; the Mets can do the actual legwork. Alderson owns a pretty good track record when it comes to trades. We have arrived at the scene when the Dark Knight becomes the villain. If the Mets are feeling particularly feisty, they can work to ship Harvey to a small market, a place where media suck-ups and supermodels are in short supply. Or they could be grateful to the big fella for helping everyone see the light.

Edgy MD Sep 06 2015 06:10 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Nonetheless, this is probably getting at least a little overblown. Simplest explanation being the most likely, Harvey is probably just being politic and failing. Successfully coming down on both sides of an issue is hard enough for normal people, let alone a self-impressed jockface. Mike Puma's report this morning says that sources from both the team and the man say he's available to pitch in the playoffs, should there be playoffs. So what do we have that's new? A vain, over-celebrated athlete who has gotten the idea that he's smartest guy in the room when he's totally not. And that ain't new.

dgwphotography Sep 06 2015 07:52 AM Re: Harvey's innings

So, Harvey is more interested in his future earning potential than helping this team win? 1. F'n shocker 2. He's Roger fucking Dorn

RealityChuck Sep 06 2015 08:11 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: “I’m going to always play, but like I said, I hired Dr. Andrews to do my surgery and I hired Scott for a reason and that’s to prolong my career and put me in the best possible position,” Harvey said before the Mets faced the Marlins on Saturday. “Moving forward with that I have one start in mind and that’s Tuesday [against Washington]. “I’m the type of person I never want to put the ball down. I hired Scott and went with Dr. Andrews because I trusted them to keep my career going and keep me healthy,” Harvey said. “As far as being out there, being with my teammates and playing, I’m never going to want to stop, but as far as the surgeon and my agent having my back and kind of looking out for the best of my career they’re obviously speaking their mind about it.” (italics added) This may be the most noncommittal answer in the history of sports. But there's one very important thing left out: that he was going to follow Boras's and Andrews's advice on innings. It clearly sounds like a statement where he doesn't agree with Boras and also doesn't want to mess up their working relationship. It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement. It's also untrue that Harvey was unhappy about the six-man rotation. He made a comment to the effect that it messed up his routine, but never indicated that he was against the idea. The entire affair is just a way for the tabloids to sell newspapers. The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down.

TransMonk Sep 06 2015 08:19 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I remember watching this Sandy interview live on 02/20/15. http://m.mlb.com/nym/video/v37913883/al ... all-season I think this is a pretty clear documentation of what the Mets intended to do (and have done) with Harvey this season. I'm not sure where any confusion on either Matt or Boras' part could have occurred. That being said, I believe Matt will keep pitching. If he does shut it down before the club's season is over, he would become one of the more hated players, not only with Mets fans, but in all of MLB.

Ashie62 Sep 06 2015 10:14 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Harvey will make a great MFY.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 06 2015 11:08 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: ... It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement.... The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down. So then why doesn't Harvey come out and say what you claim he said? He's had a gazillion [/hype] microphones stuck in his face in the past 24 hours. He's had every chance to clarify this story. Me, I think Harvey's been handled poorly and also, that he can't help himself because he's a major stupid dope with barely any saavy. That dope point, I thought so from his breakout season. But I'm not surprised that he cares more about his future earnings than the Mets post-season chances of success. I believe that every player would prefer tens and tens of millions of dollars over a World Series ring. It's just that Harvey appears to be the first active player, as far as I can remember, to be dumb enough to more or less admit this.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 06 2015 11:20 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Chad Ochoseis wrote: There are three possibilities I see here: 1. The Mets never properly documented the discussions with Harvey and the medical staff about innings limits and/or never had these discussions. Unlikely, but the Mets haven't earned the benefit of my doubt on much. Barring this, 2. If Harvey has now decided that he will not pitch after 180 innings, he is an insubordinate employee. The Mets will suspend his ass, dock his pay, and do who knows what. The union will file a grievance, which the Mets should win (barring the circumstances of #1 above or #3 below), and the Mets will need to trade him this offseason. Harvey becomes Mets fan enemy no. 1. 3. Harvey is in some fashion hurt. This is why this story is so puzzling. 1 would require way too much stupidity on the part of Mets management. As far as 2, Harvey has frequently shown himself to be a self-centered douchebag, but he's never shown himself to be a fool when it comes to managing his image. He'd have to know the kind of shitstorm that would result from him telling a writer that he wasn't planning to pitch more than 180 innings this season. Even if he really wants to sit out the playoffs, he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut and let Boras take the blame. For 3, it would be easier just to say "Harvey's hurt" and be done with it. So I dunno. I'm guessing 4 - the media took a Harvey quote out of context and ran with it, Harvey will be there for the postseason, and there's nothing to see here. I hope it's #4, but I could see Harvey getting shutdown and saying that he's not injured necessarily, but he wasn't 100%. Boras could cite when Harv recently had dead-arm and got battered as proof that he needs to powered off. None of that shit would surprise me.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 06 2015 11:51 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Harvey is a moron without the slightest clue how to get a message across. You could probably replace "Tuesday " with "Qualcomm" and get the same idea.

Elster88 Sep 06 2015 03:09 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: “I’m going to always play, but like I said, I hired Dr. Andrews to do my surgery and I hired Scott for a reason and that’s to prolong my career and put me in the best possible position,” Harvey said before the Mets faced the Marlins on Saturday. “Moving forward with that I have one start in mind and that’s Tuesday [against Washington]. “I’m the type of person I never want to put the ball down. I hired Scott and went with Dr. Andrews because I trusted them to keep my career going and keep me healthy,” Harvey said. “As far as being out there, being with my teammates and playing, I’m never going to want to stop, but as far as the surgeon and my agent having my back and kind of looking out for the best of my career they’re obviously speaking their mind about it.” (italics added) This may be the most noncommittal answer in the history of sports. But there's one very important thing left out: that he was going to follow Boras's and Andrews's advice on innings. It clearly sounds like a statement where he doesn't agree with Boras and also doesn't want to mess up their working relationship. It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement. It's also untrue that Harvey was unhappy about the six-man rotation. He made a comment to the effect that it messed up his routine, but never indicated that he was against the idea. The entire affair is just a way for the tabloids to sell newspapers. The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down. Thanks you for this dose of reality, Chuck. I feel much better now.

Elster88 Sep 06 2015 03:13 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: ... It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement.... The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down. So then why doesn't Harvey come out and say what you claim he said? He's had a gazillion [/hype] microphones stuck in his face in the past 24 hours. He's had every chance to clarify this story. Me, I think Harvey's been handled poorly and also, that he can't help himself because he's a major stupid dope with barely any saavy. That dope point, I thought so from his breakout season. But I'm not surprised that he cares more about his future earnings than the Mets post-season chances of success. I believe that every player would prefer tens and tens of millions of dollars over a World Series ring. It's just that Harvey appears to be the first active player, as far as I can remember, to be dumb enough to more or less admit this. "Why doesnt Harvey come out and say what you claim he said?" he's a "major stupid dope" If he is a dope, it seems like you answered your own question.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 06 2015 03:44 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: ... It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement.... The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down. So then why doesn't Harvey come out and say what you claim he said? He's had a gazillion [/hype] microphones stuck in his face in the past 24 hours. He's had every chance to clarify this story. Me, I think Harvey's been handled poorly and also, that he can't help himself because he's a major stupid dope with barely any saavy. That dope point, I thought so from his breakout season. But I'm not surprised that he cares more about his future earnings than the Mets post-season chances of success. I believe that every player would prefer tens and tens of millions of dollars over a World Series ring. It's just that Harvey appears to be the first active player, as far as I can remember, to be dumb enough to more or less admit this. "Why doesnt Harvey come out and say what you claim he said?" he's a "major stupid dope" If he is a dope, it seems like you answered your own question. That's right. And your point is ....? Hey, didja get a load of all the magic number and NHOP talk going on around here lately? Think you can handle it?

Frayed Knot Sep 06 2015 06:51 PM Re: Harvey's innings

As with all problems in life Derek Jeter comes to the rescue (well, this is from his website anyway so he gets all the credit)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 06 2015 07:33 PM Re: Harvey's innings

He needs a nice hot cup of STFU. Made himself and the club look awful again, caused completely unnecessary drama for a team that was riding great MOJO but up against it with doodoo, cuddy and muffy out. FUCK YOU HARVEY. I hope he tears a rotator cuff.

Rockin' Doc Sep 06 2015 07:35 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I expect the Mets finish the season with a 6 man rotation (Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, Niese, Matz, and Colon) for the remainder of the season and limit most of Harvey's starts to 5 or 6 innings. If the Mets get through the upcoming 10-12 games in good position, I wouldn't be surprised to see them skip Harvey's spot in the rotation again to reduce his innings.

Rockin' Doc Sep 06 2015 07:36 PM Re: Harvey's innings

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He needs a nice hot cup of STFU. Made himself and the club look awful again, caused completely unnecessary drama for a team that was riding great MOJO but up against it with doodoo, cuddy and muffy out. FUCK YOU HARVEY. I hope he tears a rotator cuff. I hope not. At least not until after we trade him this off-season for a quality bat.

Lefty Specialist Sep 06 2015 09:21 PM Re: Harvey's innings

The Daily Jeter piece is a lame attempt at ass-covering. I'm suuuure he wrote it himself. You know, if he pitches like crap on Tuesday, it'll get very ugly. All the spin and damage control won't help. And he'll have no one to blame but himself.

MFS62 Sep 07 2015 08:37 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Frayed Knot wrote: As with all problems in life Derek Jeter comes to the rescue (well, this is from his website anyway so he gets all the credit) You DO realize that when you click on that website, it gives captain perfect money, don't you? I feel used, and dirty. Next time, please paraphrase or summarize, and cite without a link, lest we get a rash. Later

batmagadanleadoff Sep 07 2015 09:38 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Matt Harvey: Bureau Chief.

Rockin' Doc Sep 07 2015 09:52 AM Re: Harvey's innings

MFS62 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: As with all problems in life Derek Jeter comes to the rescue (well, this is from his website anyway so he gets all the credit) You DO realize that when you click on that website, it gives captain perfect money, don't you? I feel used, and dirty. Next time, please paraphrase or summarize, and cite without a link, lest we get a rash. Later That article is actually posted on MLB site. Likely where Jeter's site purloined it from without giving appropriate credit.

G-Fafif Sep 07 2015 10:32 AM Re: Harvey's innings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 07 2015 10:43 AM

Alderson today said six man rotation in effect...with Verrett rather than Harvey. Matt pitches tomorrow, pitches in final Nat series if meaningful, is available for prospective playoffs (I think...seems fluid). Nothing else explicit, including those pesky other games Mets might need to succeed. "Oy," says one observer who is trying to make like Judy if not Terry Collins and see both sides now.

Lefty Specialist Sep 07 2015 10:40 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Boras wins. The Mets lose. It's like he's got a lot of money riding in Vegas on the Nats.

Edgy MD Sep 07 2015 10:56 AM Re: Harvey's innings

G-Fafif wrote: Alderson today said six man rotation in effect...with Verrett rather than Harvey. Matt pitches tomorrow, pitches in final Nat series if meaningful, is available for prospective playoffs (I think...seems fluid). Nothing else explicit, including those pesky other games Mets might need to succeed. "Oy," says one observer who is trying to make like Judy if not Terry Collins and see both sides now. The thing is, this would make a lot of sense ... if it came under spontaneous initiative from the Mets themselves. That the announcement came after Boras played the part of game master, it sucks. Even coming after this series would have been better.

Mets Willets Point Sep 07 2015 11:49 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Haven't really been following this, but according to Twitter it looks like we're all supposed to hate Harvey now, yes? Like we hated Reyes in 2007? And hated Piazza in 1998? It's good to keep the tradition alive of Mets fans hating our best players

Zvon Sep 07 2015 01:05 PM Re: Harvey's innings

G-Fafif wrote: "Oy," says one observer who is trying to make like Judy if not Terry Collins and see both sides now. That's suite.

SteveJRogers Sep 07 2015 01:36 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Haven't really been following this, but according to Twitter it looks like we're all supposed to hate Harvey now, yes? Like we hated Reyes in 2007? And hated Piazza in 1998? It's good to keep the tradition alive of Mets fans hating our best players Harvey is very much earning it with this act, I forget the Reyes in 2007 hate, maybe you mean the hate after his sitting down after clinching his batting title during his final game as a Met?

Elster88 Sep 07 2015 02:27 PM Re: Harvey's innings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 07 2015 02:37 PM

Did anyone here actually read what Harvey said? Here it is: ... It's also obvious from the italicized portion that he's dissociating himself from Boras's statement.... The facts are that Harvey wants to pitch and is not talking about shutting himself down. So then why doesn't Harvey come out and say what you claim he said? He's had a gazillion [/hype] microphones stuck in his face in the past 24 hours. He's had every chance to clarify this story. Me, I think Harvey's been handled poorly and also, that he can't help himself because he's a major stupid dope with barely any saavy. That dope point, I thought so from his breakout season. But I'm not surprised that he cares more about his future earnings than the Mets post-season chances of success. I believe that every player would prefer tens and tens of millions of dollars over a World Series ring. It's just that Harvey appears to be the first active player, as far as I can remember, to be dumb enough to more or less admit this. "Why doesnt Harvey come out and say what you claim he said?" he's a "major stupid dope" If he is a dope, it seems like you answered your own question. That's right. And your point is ....? Hey, didja get a load of all the magic number and NHOP talk going on around here lately? Think you can handle it? Way to let stuff go buddy. But since you asked I love the magic number talk and I don't think the Nats stand a chance.

Elster88 Sep 07 2015 02:33 PM Re: Harvey's innings

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He needs a nice hot cup of STFU. Made himself and the club look awful again, caused completely unnecessary drama for a team that was riding great MOJO but up against it with doodoo, cuddy and muffy out. FUCK YOU HARVEY. I hope he tears a rotator cuff. Yup. Well except for the rotator cuff part

metsmarathon Sep 08 2015 02:17 PM Re: Harvey's innings

this whole innings limit kerfuffle with harvey is terrible and awful and trivial and meaningless. at worst, to this point, the worst thing that harvey has done is be bad - like comically bad - at PR. he's like lebron, or maybe at worst arod without all the pesky ped stuff. seriously. his worst sin is that he sucks at talking about and drawing attention to himself. we knew going into the season there was an innings limit. are we surprised that it's come up now that it's the end of the season? is he shutting down? no. is he now being managed? yes. is it really a surprise? no. look, i think they should've been more proactive earlier in the season and skipped a start here and there all along the way. but then, when you're fighting for first place, you want to have all your guns available for the ablazin' so you kick the can down the road. well, now htat we're at the end of the road, the can's been kicked as far as it can. and now, somehting needs to be done. if there is such a thing as an innings limit, be it hard or soft, then it's gotta be there no matter how hte team is doing, right? now, i think it's a soft innings cap, and that on inning 181 his army isn't likely to go flying off, but also that every inning beyond that increases the likelihood of further damage. how much more, i cannot say, and neither can anybody else, i'll wager. so it's smart to manage it. but really, when it all comes down to it, i'm convinced that this is all, all because of little stevie strasburg, and is a controversy manufactured by and of and for scott boras. boras was hte one to open his damn mouth, not harvey. boras set this into motion, at the clear detriment to his player. but also to protect his relationship with another player. because how can boras not fight to shut down harvey after he fought to shut down strasburg, and in effect forfeited strasburgs' chance of winning the world series? boras has to fight to shut down harvey or else tacitly admit to fucking over strasburg. harvey may not have handled it right in response, (and may have been blindsided to an extent) nor did hte mets, but this one lay squarely at the feet of boras.

themetfairy Sep 08 2015 02:23 PM Re: Harvey's innings

metsmarathon wrote: harvey may not have handled it right in response, (and may have been blindsided to an extent) nor did hte mets, but this one lay squarely at the feet of boras. This - 100%

Ashie62 Sep 08 2015 05:00 PM Re: Harvey's innings

themetfairy wrote: metsmarathon wrote: harvey may not have handled it right in response, (and may have been blindsided to an extent) nor did hte mets, but this one lay squarely at the feet of boras. This - 100% Same here.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 05:16 PM Re: Harvey's innings

metsmarathon wrote: harvey may not have handled it right in response, (and may have been blindsided to an extent) nor did hte mets, but this one lay squarely at the feet of boras. It's still murky. Forgot about all the explanations and clarifications and double-talk for a second. What really happened? Did Boras create the issue? (probably) And if so, did Harvey truly want to follow Boras's lead, or did Harvey make those controversial innings-limits quotes against his true wishes and only under the influence of Boras? Have these questions been answered yet? I agree that Harvey wasn't handled properly. But Harvey didn't help himself either. He's a dope, as far as I'm concerned.

seawolf17 Sep 08 2015 08:22 PM Re: Harvey's innings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I agree that Harvey wasn't handled properly. But Harvey didn't help himself either. He's a dope, as far as I'm concerned. I think this has become painfully obvious over the years.

MFS62 Sep 09 2015 09:20 AM Re: Harvey's innings

This wishful thinking has popped up a few times in the past few weeks (another spot I remember was WEEI sports radio- Boston) http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... story.html Later

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2015 09:31 AM Re: Harvey's innings

That's something to think about. Xander Bogaerts is only 22, already has success in the big leagues, under team control through 2019 (one year more than Harvey is). What's not to like? And his agent is Scott Boras! (Okay, there's something not to like.)

Ceetar Sep 09 2015 09:31 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Harvey's a dumb jock. And that's fine. As I read it, his press conference the other day was just him reiterating the plan as he knew it. The problem was that none of US had heard the plan, because the Mets were (wisely) playing it close to the vest. So there's a number been floated and a soft, fluid plan that is based on the Mets situation and the playoffs and what not, and everything's fine. Until Boras opens up his mouth and starts making things public. Because he doesn't care about the playoffs and figures Harvey's rolling and approaching a number that's been discussed and it'd be a great time to shut him down and freeze his ERA at a low point. Harvey, having hired Boras to protect his interests and doctors to protect his arm. They, despite any evidence, obviously err on the side of hard caps and 'stop pitching'. whatever. fwiw, in Collin's post game conference, it certainly sounded like he wanted Harvey to pitch in September and have a rhythm going.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 09:45 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I got your Xander Bogaerts right here. What are you jerk faces trying to do? Make Wilmer cry again?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2015 10:16 AM Re: Harvey's innings

More like make Ruben cry. (And maybe Dilson too.) I see Wilmer as the regular second baseman next year.

TransMonk Sep 09 2015 12:16 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Rubin said on ESPN radio that the Mets plan to skip Harvey's next start. I've heard the rumblings that they want to start him against the Yanks (I have no idea why they would do that other than promotion), but that would likely be his last start in the regular season (unless the Mets still have not won the division when the Nats come to town for the final series). Still no word on how/if he would line up in a potential playoff series.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2015 12:25 PM Re: Harvey's innings

My guess is that they see the Yankees as one of their tougher remaining opponents and would therefore want to use Harvey to get a better chance of winning the game. I don't think they need a Harvey start to sell tickets. A Mets-Yankees series in September with both teams in a pennant race is not going to have a lot of empty seats.

Ceetar Sep 09 2015 12:27 PM Re: Harvey's innings

TransMonk wrote: Rubin said on ESPN radio that the Mets plan to skip Harvey's next start. I've heard the rumblings that they want to start him against the Yanks (I have no idea why they would do that other than promotion), but that would likely be his last start in the regular season (unless the Mets still have not won the division when the Nats come to town for the final series). Still no word on how/if he would line up in a potential playoff series. As far as I can tell, this is all mostly conjecture. The story was, before Boras bloviated all over everything again, was that they'd probably skip one more start. So next one. But after that, it's silly to skip. Sunday against the Yankees is his day, follow by Saturday in Cincinati, with one more start at home against the Nats. I feel like you'd want, and the Mets would want, two starts going into the 4 game break to be on rhythm. Especially after a short outing yesterday. You want to make sure his arm's stretched out and comfortable with 100-110 for the playoffs. Because hurting his overall endurance seems like it'd be more detrimental to his health than a regular diet of 100 pitch outings.

Gwreck Sep 09 2015 12:52 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My guess is that they see the Yankees as one of their tougher remaining opponents I don't think there's any question whatsoever that the Yankees are the single toughest remaining opponent on the schedule. Pitching Harvey in that series is a strategic decision, not a business one. The games are already sold out.

Centerfield Sep 09 2015 01:00 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I am way late chiming in here, but it is crazy to me that there is so much attention on these arbitrary limits. Is there a significant difference between 180 and 200? Are we really differentiating between stressful innings and side sessions? If I am pitching, is my elbow ligament aware of the score? Seems crazy to me. My only thought is that any pitcher who declines to take the mound in the post-season because of innings limits will probably never live that down. Ever.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 01:10 PM Re: Harvey's innings

From 1987 to 1989, Tommy LaSorda rode Orel Hershiser to death. He led the league in innings three straight years, and pitched an amazing 42 2/3 post-season innings in 1988, carrying his team to a World Championship. He was never the same again. Maybe his subsequent injury was unrelated to his workload, but it seems pretty self-evident that it cost him the Hall of Fame. The Mets ain't Tommy LaSorda. They've been trying to manage this all year, no matter what Tom Boswell says. If he gets hurt, it ain't for lack of foresight.

TransMonk Sep 09 2015 01:16 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't think they need a Harvey start to sell tickets. Ceetar wrote: Sunday against the Yankees is his day... Gwreck wrote: Pitching Harvey in that series is a strategic decision, not a business one. The games are already sold out. I'm not referring to ticket sales. I know the game is sold out. That Sunday game will be on ESPN and I'm guessing will be one of the most watched regular season games of the season by a national audience. There is promotional opportunity there that supersedes that single games' ticket sales. Given all of the hullabaloo over Harvey's innings recently, I'm not sold that Harvey is specifically necessary to win that game or if winning that game will be meaningful in the long run. If it's between him starting an inter-league game against the Yankees or being able to pitch one extra inning in the post-season, I shut him down every time. While I personally agree that limiting innings is guesswork at best, it seems obvious that everyone directly involved is promoting some sort of cap...so that's what we are stuck with.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 01:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I don't think it's about one extra inning, so much as needing a warmup for general sharpness.

Ceetar Sep 09 2015 01:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

huge difference between 840.1 IP over three years and the added stress of say 220 IP instead of 190. We know pitching leads to injuries. What we don't know is that if say 30 more innings at the end of a season is actually more likely to result in injury than those same 30 innings to start next season.

TransMonk Sep 09 2015 01:22 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think it's about one extra inning, so much as needing a warmup for general sharpness. I can get down with that, but the Yankees series is nearly three weeks away from a potential NLDS game. Wouldn't a warm-up be more prudent during the final week? I don't know...maybe I'm being too cautious on this, but I have this feeling in the back of my mind that either the Mets, Harvey or Boras is going to fuck this up even more than they already have.

Ashie62 Sep 09 2015 01:41 PM Re: Harvey's innings

The bottom line is Matt Harvey needs to pitch better whenever the powers that be put him out there I'm in with Rubin's speculation on Harvey.

seawolf17 Sep 09 2015 02:23 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Thing is, though... so he gets hurt. He's not even arb-eligible until next year. If he blows his arm out in inning 181, we still have a VERY good 1-5, and he's not a financial drain on next year at all. A big "what could have been" story, yes, but those happen..

batmagadanleadoff Sep 11 2015 11:28 AM Re: Harvey's innings

[fimg=222]http://a1.nyt.com/assets/article/20150910-133236/images/foundation/logos/nyt-logo-185x26.svg[/fimg] Best Move for Matt Harvey: Shield Arm, and Ears SEPT. 6, 2015 by Michael Powell Good God, the kid has gone pusillanimous on us. A coward, a phony, a fugazi. As a wealthy 60-something tabloid columnist puts it, Mets pitcher Matt Harvey is quitting on his stool. Please. Harvey has, with sweat and determination, returned from serious elbow surgery and, with minimal batting support, given the Mets a stunning comeback, one gritty, smart start after another. The Mets stumbled in Miami over the weekend, but this season has so far turned out better than we could have imagined. Now Harvey’s agent, Scott Boras, talks in a common-sense fashion of limiting Harvey’s remaining innings because, well, Harvey is in recovery from a very serious elbow procedure. And New Yorkers, as we excel at doing, lose our minds. Tabloid columnists administer a vitriol shower. I dig the angst. I’ve rooted for the Mets since Ron Hunt manned second base and this kid Tom Seaver tricked an 11-year-old into thinking that 1969 magic was baseball as usual. This season has been great fun, and not just because of Harvey. Wilmer Flores has grown into a sweet-hitting second baseman, and Yoenis Cespedes, to date myself thoroughly, has put on a Donn Clendenon show. Travis d’Arnaud has a cobra bite of a swing, and David Wright is back to enjoy it. An insightful and occasionally amusing package of the sports journalism you need today, delivered to your inbox by New York Times reporters and editors. This is no morality play. The Mets have done a fine job of nursing Harvey. Manager Terry Collins, who has had a nervous breakdown of a year — try managing a June game without a backup catcher and a July game in which your third and fourth hitters have batting averages under .200 — has carefully monitored Harvey’s innings. Only once has Harvey exceeded 110 pitches. Credit also goes to General Manager Sandy Alderson. I get why Alderson is annoyed at Boras; no one wants to be accused of not having an employee’s best interests at heart. It’s also true that it is in the Mets’ enlightened self-interest to see Harvey take his alpha-dog act deep into October. This has led team executives and coaches — who in spring training spoke of an innings limit of 185 — to talk of pushing Harvey harder and longer, well beyond his career high of 1781/3. Boras, by contrast, is looking out for the enlightened self-interest of his client. As Keith Hernandez has noted, a major league club almost always wants you to recover a little faster and play a little longer. He credited Marvin Miller, the pioneering baseball labor man, with giving players the right to seek second opinions and take some control of their tenuous careers. Over the weekend, Alderson spoke to The Daily News’s Mike Lupica, who functions as the Mets’ Boswell (James, not Ken). Alderson said that Harvey was 26 years old and that he should decide how far to push himself. In other words, man up and lose Boras’s cell number. Harvey is an intense competitor, and like 26-year-olds everywhere (I’m a father to two 20-somethings), he thinks of himself as immortal. Last year, Harvey wanted to speed his recovery and pitch in September. Alderson wisely turned deaf to that demand. This season, Harvey bridled at talk of a six-man rotation. On Sunday, he even felt obliged to write an online column for The Players’ Tribune titled “I Will Pitch in the Playoffs.” Boras, fortunately for Harvey, is not 26. In mid-August, he and Alderson spoke, and Boras looked into the what-ifs of a playoff run. Two surgeons, he said, told him they were concerned about the innings Harvey was piling up. Harvey said he then talked to his surgeon, Dr. James Andrews, who told him: Be careful. You really should not go over 180 innings. The orthopedic surgeons in the press corps acted as if this were far-fetched. Who sets such limits? This isn’t science: 150 innings, 250 innings, who knows? Sometime in the next few years, I may need Achilles’ surgery. My surgeon, who also handles pro athletes, said we would set specific numeric goals, month by month. My recovery will be carefully managed. My goal is to get back to running around Prospect Park at a nice clip. Harvey hopes to thrive as a dominant pitcher in the best baseball league in the world. It’s hard to imagine that his surgeons would not talk of careful limits. My colleague Tyler Kepner talked to Neal ElAttrache, a noted orthopedic surgeon. He noted that it was reasonable to set a 180-inning limit because of the maximum stress to which Harvey’s arm was exposed. “To be fair to Matt,” ElAttrache said, “that number does start to raise some flags, because now he’s in no man’s land.” As Newsday pointed out months ago, the American Journal of Sports Medicine published three studies and found that 80 percent of pitchers who had elbow surgery returned to pitch at least one game. That was the good news. The bad was that only 67 percent returned to anything like their former level of performance. More than half ended up back on the disabled list. Pitchers are like summer swallows: They disappear, and you forget their brilliance. Harvey is often compared to Stephen Strasburg, the young Nationals ace. In 2012, Strasburg was in his first season back from the same operation, and when he reached his innings limit, his team sat him. Washington failed to win a championship that year, and many now talk of that decision as disastrous. That conclusion draws on an empty well of facts. Strasburg, who has had back problems this year, has by and large pitched brilliantly. In 2014, he struck out 242 and walked 43. If the Nationals win this year, or next, they can count themselves lucky to have a healthy Strasburg. “Imagine the future a kid like that would command on the open market,” Collins, the Mets’ manager, told Lupica in spring training as they watched Harvey throw. Right now, Harvey’s salary is $614,125. If he stays healthy, he could make $20 million per year someday. If I were Mr. and Mrs. Harvey, I would be very happy that Boras had the enlightened self-interest to look after my son’s health. Email: powellm@nytimes.com http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/sport ... .html?_r=1

Ceetar Sep 11 2015 11:35 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Wrong on so many levels.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 11 2015 11:36 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Ceetar wrote: Wrong on so many levels. Such as ....?

batmagadanleadoff Sep 11 2015 11:38 AM Re: Harvey's innings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: Wrong on so many levels. Such as ....? I'll tell you what I disagree with. I think that Cespedes is putting on a Babe Ruth show, not a Donn Clendenon show.

Ceetar Sep 11 2015 11:54 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I was going to start listing them but you already posted the article which is basically the list. Boras speaks in a common sense fashion: The Mets have managed Harvey's innings fine and had a plan. Boras was well aware of it. him speaking out is passive-aggressive manipulation. He then inserts the caveat of "They've managed him well so far" and then immediately launches into an unsourced claim that they're going to now push him harder and longer than they planned. Perhaps past his career high. (WELL beyond he says) Is this the plan? doesn't seem like it. Part of that's because he hasn't pitched a full season ever. But that's his job, to pitch a full season. So yes, he may go past his career high. But that's sorta the point. He quotes, or paraphrases, James Andrews which is an oversimplification. Then bashes everyone that points out there is no evidence to innings limits in the same breath as claiming we say it's not science. But it is, there's not Scientific Evidence to that 180 number, or any number really. He then launches into his own almost personal experience of what may or may not happen after an injury he does not have. Like this somehow matters. He also talks about a managed recovery like Harvey isn't well past the recovery stage and more than 2 years removed from surgery. We're not talking about recovery, we're talking about how to avoid a pitcher getting injured, and We. Don't. Know. then he talks to 'random doctor that has not examined Harvey' to get a quote about 'maximum stress' without any real scientific evidence again. That number closely correlates to his 2013 like the reason he got hurt was because he pitched 178.1 innings and then POP. When Harvey exceeds that number, it doesn't put him at further risk, it provides evidence that he's healthy. Obviously you have to mention Strasburg. He does. He insinuates that Steve is healthy now because of the innings cap and them sitting him. When in fact, HE GOT HURT ANYWAY. He's been iffy this year because of injuries, which he waves away and mentions how good he was last year. There is zero evidence that keeping him out of the playoffs did any good because hurt their chances.

Edgy MD Sep 11 2015 12:39 PM Re: Harvey's innings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Wrong on so many levels. Such as ....? I'll tell you what I disagree with. I think that Cespedes is putting on a Babe Ruth show, not a Donn Clendenon show. That was definitely one place he went off track: some strangely funky analogies seemingly formulated to make him sound in the know had the opposite effect.

Ashie62 Sep 11 2015 12:46 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I believe the Clendenon Cespedes analogy is off. I'm tired of the Harvey stuff. Its September, Matt is healthy and available to pitch. Booyah!

d'Kong76 Sep 11 2015 01:39 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Ashie62 wrote: I'm tired of the Harvey stuff. Its September, Matt is healthy and available to pitch. Booyah! Unless he's not available, which is the case until he actually takes the hill again.

Edgy MD Sep 11 2015 01:44 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I've given it some serious thought and the correct Cespedes analogy is Giant Squid-Like Creature.

d'Kong76 Sep 11 2015 02:03 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Gigantic, even!

cooby classic Sep 21 2015 09:28 PM Re: Harvey's innings

This is obviously the thread I was looking for earlier

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 10 2015 09:02 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Wow, it's not often you read the Great Boras fumbling his way through an interview like this: "I think the best thing to say is we're in the playoffs," he said. "We're going to let the playoffs do what they're going to do. All of those discussion , his planning, are going to be I'm sure after the season." http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ ... 1.10943818

Benjamin Grimm Oct 10 2015 09:08 AM Re: Harvey's innings

After the postseason is over, I'm willing to cap Harvey's innings at zero until spring training.

cooby classic Oct 10 2015 05:26 PM Re: Harvey's innings

and he'll get hurt playing pickup basketball...

Elster88 Oct 11 2015 12:04 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Let's go Harvey. Shut up all the critics.

TransMonk Oct 13 2015 09:38 AM Re: Harvey's innings

So, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, but since this thread is about Harvey... If the Mets were to make it to the NLCS, I would be a big proponent of just starting Harvey in Game 1. I believe the team has already decided that he is only going to pitch one game in any remaining postseason series, so why waste that bullet? Harvey showed in Game 3 of the NLDS (and multiple times during the regular season) that he is less effective on long rest. Pitching him in a possible Game 1 situation of the NLCS would put him on normal rest where he has historically been more effective. The rest of the series rotation can be dictated on opponent and match-ups, but if they are going to wait more than 6 days to pitch Harvey again, they might as well shut him down because I'm not sure it is worth it.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2015 09:46 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Well, it depends on if the Mets win the NLDS in four games or five. If deGrom doesn't have to pitch NLDS Game 5 is available for NLCS Game 1, he's the guy I'd go with. If the Mets are playing the Cubs, I'd then go with Syndergaad in Game 2 at Citi Field. If they play the Cardinals, Game 2 will be in St. Louis, so I'd consider Harvey for that game and Syndergaard for Game 3 in Queens. If the Mets win on Thursday instead of tonight, then yes, I'd consider Harvey for Game 1.

TransMonk Oct 13 2015 09:52 AM Re: Harvey's innings

deGram vs. the Cubs in 3 career starts: 6.46 ERA

Ceetar Oct 13 2015 10:27 AM Re: Harvey's innings

TransMonk wrote: deGram vs. the Cubs in 3 career starts: 6.46 ERA small sample. also small sample is Harvey on long rest. I don't know for sure Harvey is actually going to be limited. I think the question becomes (if you don't use deGrom) is if you're going to try to get three games from Jacob. Probably depends on Matz does tonight. If you're not short-resting deGrom, then I figure the rotation is fine and Harvey would be on normal rest for game 7 after game 3

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2015 10:33 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I think the only limit in effect for Harvey for the postseason is that he'd only get five starts. So one in the NLDS, and potentially two each in the NLCS and World Series. So he could start Game 1 of either best-of-seven, but he wouldn't be on one of those aggressive schedules where he pitches Games 1, 4, and 7.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 13 2015 03:38 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Tezza says Harvey won't pitch again in the NLDS Source: mlb@bat app

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2015 03:44 PM Re: Harvey's innings

No surprise there.

Edgy MD Oct 15 2015 12:18 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Anthony DiComo tweets that Matt Harvey will be available if the situation calls for him tonight.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2015 12:30 PM Re: Harvey's innings

My current understanding is that if Terry needs a long reliever, Syndergaard gets called on first. Hopefully that would include extra innings; if Noah comes in late in a tie game, I'd try to get about four (or more) innings from him if necessary.

Edgy MD Oct 15 2015 12:36 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Six starters with a team coming off a travel day should mean 100% of your pitchers are available over about 40 innings. Terry just has the unenviable task of picking the right ones in the right order. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

TransMonk Oct 15 2015 01:55 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Let's just score 17 runs in the first inning and be done with it.

Gwreck Oct 15 2015 02:32 PM Re: Harvey's innings

The only restriction I can see is that either Harvey or Syndergaard has to be held back to start the potential game 1 on Saturday. (I guess today might be their bullpen day and they could do an inning on the mound if necessary).

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2015 02:40 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I would think so. If both of them go three innings, for example, and the Mets win, then Saturday is either Matz on short rest (unlikely) or Colon or Niese.

Edgy MD Oct 15 2015 03:27 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I can't imagine a 40-inning marathon in which they'd have to use all their spare starters. But I can't imagine any reason they should refrain from doing so if they did have to. All is good. Let's just unload on those damnable Dodgers.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2015 03:31 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Well, yes. They do what it takes to win. And if they do win the 40-inning game with six exhausted starters, then you activate Gilmartin or Verrett to start on Saturday.

Ceetar Oct 15 2015 03:39 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, yes. They do what it takes to win. And if they do win the 40-inning game with six exhausted starters, then you activate Gilmartin or Verrett to start on Saturday. doubt Matz is available and not sure Bartolo would be either, so you could start those guys.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2015 04:23 PM Re: Harvey's innings

John Heyman reporting that Matt Harvey and Scott Boras have taken out insurance on his arm — a two-tiered policy that covers him against a catastrophic injury, or simply against a drop off in performance that would lessen the value of his next contract from where it might be assumed to be if he hit the market today. Good, I guess. It's appropriate to some extent that the player should assume that risk professionally, and it allows Harvey to pitch without worry. By the way, I wasn't initially able to find this thread. Typing "Harvey's Innings" into our search bar yielded dozens upon dozens of results. I thought for a few seconds and then typed "Doucebag," and hit pay dirt.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 20 2015 04:32 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I'd hate to be the actuary who sat down to calculate the premiums on that policy. Maybe we can get Chad86 to give us a heads-up on the finer points. Tonight at my gym somebody asked me who is the most successful Greek-American in Major League Baseball? I answered: Scott Boras.

Ashie62 Oct 20 2015 04:52 PM Re: Harvey's innings

I believe Harvey also bought couch and robot insurance,

Mets Willets Point Nov 11 2015 06:51 PM Re: Harvey's innings

And so after inciting the biggest, overblown, pseudo-scandal of the Mets season, Scott Boras says "Nevermind!"

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2015 06:57 PM Re: Harvey's innings

The worst news in that article is that Conforto is a Boras client.

Centerfield Nov 11 2015 06:57 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Boras will come out with a formula demonstrating how those extra innings bolstered his arm.

Centerfield Nov 11 2015 06:58 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The worst news in that article is that Conforto is a Boras client. Agreed. But I think I read someplace that this was a factor in him falling in the draft allowing us to get him in the first place.

Nymr83 Nov 11 2015 07:04 PM Re: Harvey's innings

Centerfield wrote: Boras will come out with a formula demonstrating how those extra innings bolstered his arm. haha yup, cant wait for that argument to the arbitrators

Ceetar Nov 12 2015 08:32 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Nymr83 wrote: Centerfield wrote: Boras will come out with a formula demonstrating how those extra innings bolstered his arm. haha yup, cant wait for that argument to the arbitrators Certainly 'nice' comments from Boras. So I have to ask... which of his clients is a free agent that he wants the Mets to sign?

Farmer Ted Nov 12 2015 08:36 AM Re: Harvey's innings

The Marlins don't give a shit about Boras and stinking pitch counts. ESPN.com MIAMI -- The Miami Marlins' feud with agent Scott Boras escalated Wednesday, and the team said he'll be left out of any future talks regarding ace Jose Fernandez's workload. Team president David Samson pledged to exclude Boras after the agent complained about the Marlins' handling of another one of his clients, outfielder Marcell Ozuna. The dispute perhaps reduces the already slim likelihood the Marlins will sign Fernandez to a long-term contract. An exchange of barbs began with Boras criticizing the Marlins for demoting Ozuna to Triple-A last season when he was in a 1-for-36 slump. The comments brought an angry response from Samson. After Scott Boras took another opportunity to criticize the Marlins for demoting his client, Marcell Ozuna, to Triple-A last year, Miami said he'll be left out of any future contract negotiations regarding fellow Boras client Jose Fernandez. "My strong suggestion to Mr. Boras is that instead of resting on his 5 percent that he collects from his stable of players, he write a check and buy a team," Samson said. "Then he would have the opportunity to run a team that he claims to be so able to do. Until that time, he is in no position to comment how any Major League Baseball team is operated." Boras, speaking at the general managers' meetings in Boca Raton, questioned the Marlins' motivation for sending Ozuna to the minors. The lost service time prevented Ozuna from becoming eligible for salary arbitration this offseason. "He's a lifetime .265 hitter, and I can find you 30 players in the major leagues that went 1 for 36 some time in their career, and they did not get sent to the minor leagues," Boras said. "When you do those things, it sends a message to players, sends a message to the locker room and sends a message to everyone that looks at the organization that there is a calculus going on that is beyond performance." Samson responded: "Every decision we make is based on the best interests of the team, and always has been." Ozuna is believed to be on the trading block. Fernandez returned in July from Tommy John surgery. Boras was outspoken this year regarding the Mets' use of pitcher Matt Harvey, another client who was coming back from Tommy John surgery. The Marlins don't plan to consult Boras regarding how they use Fernandez in 2016, and Boras told the Miami Herald that he hasn't talked with the team about Fernandez since January or February. "He will not be involved in any discussion as it relates to Jose Fernandez," Samson said. "We will be in touch with the doctors and Jose as we formulate a plan." Boras, however, didn't sound like he was going to be left out of the discussion regarding Fernandez's workload. "Certainly, the doctors are going to prescribe a graduated program for him," Boras told the Herald. "He threw somewhere in the area of 65 to 70 innings [last season], and I think his career high is 170 or 180. So I'm sure we'll have discussions about that." Fernandez, who made $651,000 in 2015, is arbitration-eligible for the first time this offseason. He can become a free agent after the 2018 season. The right-hander rejected a multiyear offer before the season, Samson said. But Samson didn't rule out the possibility of a long-term deal, despite the dispute with Boras. "We don't even think about that," Samson said. "If we make an offer on a long-term contract, Jose can say yes or no." The Associated Press contributed to this report.

HahnSolo Nov 12 2015 09:05 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Barring an agent from negotiations? Are there ramifications to this? Isn't it the player's right to have representation in those negotiations? If not it should be. F* Boras, but F* the Marlins and their rink-dink front office.

Ceetar Nov 12 2015 09:08 AM Re: Harvey's innings

HahnSolo wrote: Barring an agent from negotiations? Are there ramifications to this? Isn't it the player's right to have representation in those negotiations? If not it should be. F* Boras, but F* the Marlins and their rink-dink front office. yeah, that won't happen. But as I understand it, Samson and Boras don't talk directly, and haven't in years. So part of this article is perhaps them just speaking at this reporter as a middleman.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2015 10:39 AM Re: Harvey's innings

Boras is like the Policemen's or Sanitation union when a new Mayor comes in. Skilled at making a stink to get their items onto the agenda, but eyes on the long game. Marlins are fools to take the take the bait.

Edgy MD Nov 12 2015 11:33 AM Re: Harvey's innings

I'll support the Marlins on this one. Boras has every right and responsibility to advocate for his players, but his using the media for leverage poisons the well. It demonstrates bad faith and sets up the team to be holding the bag no matter what. It doesn't make the Marlins right, but come on. Unless/until you think that the team is being irredeemably malfeasant, keep the conversation in the room.

Centerfield Nov 12 2015 11:35 AM Re: Harvey's innings

David Samson wrote: My strong suggestion to Mr. Boras is that instead of resting on his 5 percent that he collects from his stable of players, he write a check and buy a team. Then he would have the opportunity to run a team that he claims to be so able to do. Until that time, he is in no position to comment how any Major League Baseball team is operated. Sell the Team to Scott Boras NOW!!!!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2015 12:58 PM Re: Harvey's innings

So... what you're saying is, Ozuna's available for cheap?

Edgy MD Nov 12 2015 01:16 PM Re: Harvey's innings

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Marlins are fools to take the take the bait. There's something to be said for this perspective here, but does Alderson get points (with the media or with fans) when he coolly deflects when asked about Boras' broadsides?