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Familia vs Armando

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 07 2015 04:23 PM

Familia, with save No. 37 today is within six saves of the team's single-season record of 43, set by Armando Benitez in 2001. He's got less than a month to get those six, which might be tough. But considering he wasn't even the closer when the season started, this is amazing! Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Franco (1998) -- 38 Familia (2015) -- 37 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33 I know Benitez' tenure ended in an ugly way, but should he be in the conversation for the Mets Hall of Fame at some point? Kudos again to the Ultimate Mets Database for having all these things! [url]http://ultimatemets.com/yrleaders.php?cattype=p#sv

Edgy MD Sep 07 2015 07:42 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Should he be? Yes. Will he be? Anything is possible in the fullness of time, but a lot would have to change.

Zvon Sep 07 2015 07:53 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

I do not want to mention Familia and _______ in the same sentence until after this season is over. Some trauma you never recover from.

Lefty Specialist Sep 08 2015 06:41 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Zvon wrote: I do not want to mention Familia and _______ in the same sentence until after this season is over. Some trauma you never recover from. Well, Familia would have to.......oh, I see what you mean.

soupcan Sep 08 2015 08:04 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Whenever there is an Armando thread I wait gleefully for Centerfield to comment.

Nymr83 Sep 08 2015 01:57 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez belongs in the Hall of Piece of Shit Choke Artists, next to Kenny Rogers.

Edgy MD Sep 08 2015 02:11 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Where does Leiter go? And Franco?

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 02:19 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez was fucking great. At his peak, he was as good as any Mets reliever ever and the contenders are an extremely short list anyways. Whaddya want from relievers? That they should never give up a run? The best relievers come into situations where there's practically no margin for error and expectations for these guys are always distorted. They're hardly ever as blameworthy as they're made out to be when they blow an outing.

Edgy MD Sep 08 2015 02:26 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Kenny Rogers went 5-1 down the stretch for a Mets team that ultimately needed a one-game play-in to get in the post-season at all. Any Mets fan who runs into him should kiss his filthy mouth.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 02:32 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: Kenny Rogers went 5-1 down the stretch for a Mets team that ultimately needed a one-game play-in to get in the post-season at all. Any Mets fan who runs into him should kiss his filthy mouth. Kenny Rogers was fucking great in 1999 for the Mets. The way he's remembered for that last pitch of the season is about as fair as reducing Beltran's Mets legacy to you know what.

G-Fafif Sep 08 2015 02:45 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

I propose a blanket pardon for all alleged Met villains from Met playoff teams if the Mets win the 2015 World Series. We should be in that good a mood (I include myself and my grudge toward whathisname the former Brave lefty).

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 02:46 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

G-Fafif wrote: I propose a blanket pardon for all alleged Met villains from Met playoff teams if the Mets win the 2015 World Series. We should be in that good a mood (I include myself and my grudge toward whathisname the former Brave lefty). I dunno. (See, Timo Perez.)

seawolf17 Sep 08 2015 02:49 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

G-Fafif wrote: I propose a blanket pardon for all alleged Met villains from Met playoff teams if the Mets win the 2015 World Series. We should be in that good a mood (I include myself and my grudge toward whathisname the former Brave lefty). Everybody else, yes. But him? No.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 02:51 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

seawolf17 wrote: G-Fafif wrote: I propose a blanket pardon for all alleged Met villains from Met playoff teams if the Mets win the 2015 World Series. We should be in that good a mood (I include myself and my grudge toward whathisname the former Brave lefty). Everybody else, yes. But him? No. Since when did whathisname the former Brave lefty ever pitch for the Mets in the post-season? He's not even eligible for the proposed pardon.

seawolf17 Sep 08 2015 02:51 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

batmagadanleadoff wrote: seawolf17 wrote: G-Fafif wrote: I propose a blanket pardon for all alleged Met villains from Met playoff teams if the Mets win the 2015 World Series. We should be in that good a mood (I include myself and my grudge toward whathisname the former Brave lefty). Everybody else, yes. But him? No. Since when did whathisname the former Brave lefty ever pitch for the Mets in the post-season? He's not even eligible for the proposed pardon. YES! Good point.

G-Fafif Sep 08 2015 02:52 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

2006.

G-Fafif Sep 08 2015 02:56 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

We wouldn't have to fully forgive the foibles, but we'd have to readily acknowledge the contributions. Timo catalyzed the Mets in 2 playoff rounds. Armando was lights-out in '99 regular season. Rogers never lost at Shea. The former Brave won a pair of games in '06 postseason. Beltran was Beltran most of the time. Maybe 30 days of goodwill toward Mets until our preferred narratives inevitably take hold again.

Ceetar Sep 08 2015 02:57 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

G-Fafif wrote: 2006. cruised and costed in an easy Dodgers series. Pitched great in the Beltran opener. Mostly kept them in the game 5 thanks to an early Willie hook. 4+, gave up 2 in 4th, single, double in 5th followed by an IBB and a hook. That's what makes it so galling. He'd really started washing some of that Braves taint off and boom.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 08 2015 02:58 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

G-Fafif wrote: 2006. Holy moley. The Alzheimer's is coming to get me.

HahnSolo Sep 08 2015 07:58 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Rogers never gets a chance to choke if the two guys who should have closed the game out before him actually did so.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 08 2015 08:55 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Back to Familia and his chase for the record, updated after tonight's glorious win. Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Familia (2015) -- 38 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

Zvon Sep 08 2015 09:24 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

G-Fafif wrote: We wouldn't have to fully forgive the foibles, but we'd have to readily acknowledge the contributions. Timo catalyzed the Mets in 2 playoff rounds. Armando was lights-out in '99 regular season. Rogers never lost at Shea. The former Brave won a pair of games in '06 postseason. Beltran was Beltran most of the time. Maybe 30 days of goodwill toward Mets until our preferred narratives inevitably take hold again. It only takes a moment to be traumatized and all the good stuff seeps down the drain. In Armando's case, a collection of moments. I mean, I remember the good stuff. I'm aware of it. But it doesn't balance out. For me, anyway. I know. It's not fair.

G-Fafif Sep 09 2015 07:17 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Back to Familia and his chase for the record, updated after tonight's glorious win. Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Familia (2015) -- 38 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33 Would love Familia to have the record, provided the saves are in service to needing him to pitch the ninth. I have this horrible vision of applauding a Jeurys-rigged 44th save and then seeing him lit up when they restart the clock in the part of the year that succeeds the regular season should the Mets be there and Collins being all, "You know, he used a lot of bullets getting to that record, and that was important to him and his agent..." Also have horrible vision of whatever happened to Bobby Thigpen after his 57-save season? But I'd love him to have it.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 09 2015 07:20 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Would love Familia to have the record, provided the saves are in service to needing him to pitch the ninth. I have this horrible vision of applauding a Jeurys-rigged 44th save and then seeing him lit up when they restart the clock in the part of the year that succeeds the regular season should the Mets be there and Collins being all, "You know, he used a lot of bullets getting to that record, and that was important to him and his agent..." Also have horrible vision of whatever happened to Bobby Thigpen after his 57-save season? But I'd love him to have it. Good call. I just like the idea of him getting a record because it means we're winning games!

G-Fafif Sep 09 2015 07:21 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Would love Familia to have the record, provided the saves are in service to needing him to pitch the ninth. I have this horrible vision of applauding a Jeurys-rigged 44th save and then seeing him lit up when they restart the clock in the part of the year that succeeds the regular season should the Mets be there and Collins being all, "You know, he used a lot of bullets getting to that record, and that was important to him and his agent..." Also have horrible vision of whatever happened to Bobby Thigpen after his 57-save season? But I'd love him to have it. Good call. I just like the idea of him getting a record because it means we're winning games! That would be the best part.

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2015 11:32 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

We wouldn't have to fully forgive the foibles, but we'd have to readily acknowledge the contributions. Timo catalyzed the Mets in 2 playoff rounds. Armando was lights-out in '99 regular season. Rogers never lost at Shea. The former Brave won a pair of games in '06 postseason. Beltran was Beltran most of the time. Maybe 30 days of goodwill toward Mets until our preferred narratives inevitably take hold again. It only takes a moment to be traumatized and all the good stuff seeps down the drain. In Armando's case, a collection of moments. I mean, I remember the good stuff. I'm aware of it. But it doesn't balance out. For me, anyway. I know. It's not fair. Still trying to figure the moments this author thought traumatized Mets fans to the point of making Messy Fiasco the most hated player in Met history, and the 4th most hated in his rankings. Hated By: Mets Fans. In a long line of underachieving Mets players, Orosco might just take the cake. He wasted a lot of time in New York in the minds of Mets fans, and that must have been infuriating. He wasn't that mean of a guy or anything, but he never seemed to realize his potential, and that was bad enough in the minds of Mets fans. Really?! More so than the players listed so far in this thread? On top of his performance in the 1986 postseason?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2015 11:33 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

That's nuts. I have nothing but good memories of Jesse Orosco.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 11:35 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

It must be true. This is Rantsports we're talking about.

Ceetar Sep 09 2015 11:36 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: It must be true. This is Rantsports we're talking about. The pinnacle of sports journalism, that place.

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2015 11:46 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: It must be true. This is Rantsports we're talking about. Some of the picks are spot on, but the majority, like the Orosco one, are pretty much WTF!? Like the author knew a old-ish Met fan in the office and asked "hey, first name that comes to mind when I say spotty reliever?"

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 11:50 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Gotta be Dave Wickersham.

Centerfield Sep 09 2015 11:54 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

The success of a relief pitcher can be pretty random. Fans perception of that relief pitcher, even more so. Jesse and Armando were both pretty terrific relievers. They were responsible for 2 of the best years ever by a Met reliever. But one is adored, one is reviled. One is clutch, one is a choker. How different would it have been, if the Mets had scored only 1 run in the top of 16th of NLCS game 6, rather than 3. It is rare that a relief pitcher can give up 3 runs to the home team in an extra inning game and still be the winning pitcher.

Frayed Knot Sep 09 2015 11:59 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

It's sad to note that the sports world seems determined to take over from the decade-old version of VH-1 which promoted the making of lists not as the result of a discussion but as the basis for the discussion itself. Many of ESPN's programs are hip deep in this lazy thinking these days [Is Peyton Manning in your Top-5 QBs ever? Will he be if he wins this year's SB? How about if he merely gets to this year's SB but doesn't win? How 'bout if he wins but isn't the MVP?]. It's also what things like the 'Franchise Four' are built around as is the pseudo journalism in that linked article. There was a great parody of this very thing in one of the closing episodes of THE NEWSROOM where the stations new 'bloggers' were essentially just making shit up about celebs (like a world where Orosco is most hated) and turning into insta-lists up on the company's website.

Ceetar Sep 09 2015 12:07 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Frayed Knot wrote: It's sad to note that the sports world seems determined to take over from the decade-old version of VH-1 which promoted the making of lists not as the result of a discussion but as the basis for the discussion itself. Many of ESPN's programs are hip deep in this lazy thinking these days [Is Peyton Manning in your Top-5 QBs ever? Will he be if he wins this year's SB? How about if he merely gets to this year's SB but doesn't win? How 'bout if he wins but isn't the MVP?]. It's also what things like the 'Franchise Four' are built around as is the pseudo journalism in that linked article. There was a great parody of this very thing in one of the closing episodes of THE NEWSROOM where the stations new 'bloggers' were essentially just making shit up about celebs (like a world where Orosco is most hated) and turning into insta-lists up on the company's website. It's perfect because it takes something somewhat arbitrary and subjective and presents it in an objective way, creating discussion/controversy. Then they rake in the views/clicks/etc. Deadspin does it quite well too. I mean, this stuff is fine as chatter and watercooler discussion. Perhaps the next evolution of the internet is to better separate solid posts and articles from this talk-radio style chatter nonsense.

Frayed Knot Sep 09 2015 12:37 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

If by 'perfect' you mean perfectly vapid, then yes.

dinosaur jesus Sep 09 2015 01:09 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

That's a weird list in a lot of ways. Just the basic idea doesn't make much sense--hated by your team's fans and hated by everybody else are completely different things. The first is probably a more interesting topic, but whatever. Does anyone really hate Dontrelle Willis? He seemed like a lot of fun, and I was really sorry to see him lose it so badly. Mike Schmidt was pretty hard to like, but there didn't seem any reason to hate him, except for his being really good. David Wells--I lived in Toronto when he pitched there, and I had no idea I was supposed to hate him. And Dock Ellis--throwing a no hitter on acid is weird and amazing and kind of frightening, but hateful? Really? And yeah, I love Jesse Orosco. There's too much goodwill from 1983 and 1986 for me even to consider hating him. If I had to choose a Met to hate, I'd probably go with Kingman. He was gifted--that year in Chicago showed what he was capable of--and he chose not to give a shit.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2015 01:21 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

I'd probably let any Met short of Lenny Dykstra and Ambiorix Burgos live in my basement, rent free. And both cases would be more out of fear than hate. Kong could live up-stairs. And have my bed!

seawolf17 Sep 09 2015 01:24 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: I'd probably let any Met short of Lenny Dykstra and Ambiorix Burgos live in my basement, rent free. And both cases would be more out of fear than hate. Kong could live up-stairs. And have my bed! dinosaur jesus wrote: If I had to choose a Met to hate, I'd probably go with Kingman. He was gifted--that year in Chicago showed what he was capable of--and he chose not to give a shit. lol they forgot about me already

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 09 2015 07:49 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Familia (2015) -- 39 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

G-Fafif Sep 10 2015 01:18 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Unnoticed in his rise through the ranks is Familia's smashing the record for most saves by a homegrown Met reliever, a mark set in 2014 by Jenrry Mejia when he saved 28 games. Before Mejia, the record was held by Tug McGraw, with 27 in 1972. Three days ago I was nervous about unnecessary use of Jeurys in pursuit of the overall franchise standard. Now I'm thinking he can pitch five innings in three weeks.

Edgy MD Sep 10 2015 04:50 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Not un-noticed in the "Where Mets Rank" thread. When was the last time a Met saved all three games of a series?

Gwreck Sep 10 2015 06:06 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: When was the last time a Met saved all three games of a series? Frank Francisco. April 5, 7 and 8 (first series of the year) against the Braves.

Frayed Knot Sep 10 2015 06:13 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Gwreck wrote: Edgy MD wrote: When was the last time a Met saved all three games of a series? Frank Francisco. April 5, 7 and 8 (first series of the year) against the Braves. A sure sign of greatness to come!

Gwreck Sep 10 2015 06:13 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Last time it was 3 saves in 3 days in a 3 game series was August 18-20, 2006 against the Rockies. Billy Wagner.

Edgy MD Sep 10 2015 06:15 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

I guess the next question regards most consecutive games with a save.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 10 2015 07:38 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Gwreck wrote: Last time it was 3 saves in 3 days in a 3 game series was August 18-20, 2006 against the Rockies. Billy Wagner. F that guy.

Gwreck Sep 10 2015 10:18 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Edgy MD wrote: I guess the next question regards most consecutive games with a save. I believe those answers are: For one pitcher: 4, last done May 4-7, 2009 by Francisco Rodriguez. For the Mets: 5, last done September 23-27, 2005, although the saves were split between Aaron Heilman and Roberto Hernandez.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 12 2015 09:05 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Familia (2015) -- 40 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 14 2015 08:12 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Familia is unstoppable, lately! Benitez (2001) -- 43 Familia (2015) -- 41 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

Frayed Knot Sep 14 2015 08:14 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez's records are more impressive though considering that he never saved any games after mid-August ... or so I've heard.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 14 2015 08:19 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Frayed Knot wrote: Benitez's records are more impressive though considering that he never saved any games after mid-August ... or so I've heard. Bad ass!

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 25 2015 04:36 AM Re: Familia vs Armando

Benitez (2001) -- 43 Familia (2015) -- 42 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

G-Fafif Oct 03 2015 08:45 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Gonna have to be a shared record at best. Armando gets out of this jam like he used to sometimes get out of some jams.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2015 03:27 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

The Mets just took a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the 8th on a homer by Granderson. So unless this becomes a four-run inning, Familia will get a chance to tie the club record.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 04 2015 05:00 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Both Benitez 2001 and Familia 2015 had 64 games finished (Familia lead the league). Benitez 2001 had 3 blown saves, and Familia had 5 blown saves.

Mets Guy in Michigan Oct 04 2015 05:21 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Familia (2015) -- 43 Benitez (2001) -- 43 Benitez (2000) -- 41 Wagner (2006) -- 40 Franco (1998) -- 38 Franco (1997) -- 36 Rodriguez (2009) -- 35 Wagner (2007) -- 34 Franco (1990) -- 33 Benitez (2002) -- 33

G-Fafif Oct 04 2015 06:04 PM Re: Familia vs Armando

Jeurys Saves! (Somebody get on a banner for this.)