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Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Frayed Knot Sep 27 2015 02:53 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 27 2015 03:04 PM

Up 4-2 heading into the 8th, the Nationals wind up losing 12-5. Nice bullpen once again. So why should we care about this now? Well we shouldn't really, except that the meltdown was punctuated by an in-dugout brawl between Harper and Papelbon. I didn't see it first hand, but Harper had just [crossout:c5hvh33q]grounded[/crossout:c5hvh33q] popped out and on his trip back to the dugout Papelbon was mouthing at him the entire time (lack of hustle maybe?). Not long after Bryce got into the dugout itself the two went at it and it certainly wasn't just one of those pushing/shoving type of false fights. The details, assuming they ever get out, should be interesting, especially since the Nats assumed Papelbon's contract through next season when they acquired him.

Edgy MD Sep 27 2015 02:58 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

JP got a piece of Harper's neck. Had higher ground, too. http://thebiglead.com/2015/09/27/bryce- ... ts-dugout/

Zvon Sep 27 2015 03:08 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I think those two were made for each other. That was just a lovers spat.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 27 2015 03:11 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Unreal. I cannot believe the Nationals sent Papelbon back out there to pitch the following inning!

Lefty Specialist Sep 27 2015 03:33 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Wow. Just a complete breakdown on so many levels. Sucks to be them.

Frayed Knot Sep 27 2015 03:34 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Unreal. I cannot believe the Nationals sent Papelbon back out there to pitch the following inning! While Harper left the game. And while it's tough to blame GM Mike Rizzo for not forecasting just how poorly this move would backfire, that's now 13 runs against for Papelbon in just 22 IP (even if only 8 were earned runs). They needed bullpen help at the deadline, but what a crash and burn that turned out to be! Papelbon makes them promise he'll be the closer but Williams can't seem to get him in to close games or even into tight games against your only division rival. Then, as a result, Storen pouts, gets worse, then punches his way out of the season. And now Papelbon also gets worse and punches the franchise player.

Edgy MD Sep 27 2015 03:55 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

How fired is Matt Williams? What better way to demonstrate how resigned you are than to send Papelbon back out there? Wally Backman is totally brushing up his résumé. Harper, meanwhile, on his way to becoming the first guy since Barry Bonds to be jumped by a teammate in his own dugout on his way to an MVP award. Congratulations Bryce! Papelbon, amazingly, is under contract for next year. He may be a terrific guy who is misunderstood (I mean, who doesn't want to punch Harper?), but he sure seems to have left behind a long trail of teammates who hate him. I see him going to Miami for dimes on the dollar.

RealityChuck Sep 27 2015 04:10 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I think the fight started when Papelbon bragged he was a bigger dick than Harper. Harper couldn't let his dickishness be challenged.

Centerfield Sep 27 2015 04:28 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Awesome.

HahnSolo Sep 27 2015 05:40 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Harper in his post game comments intimated that he took himself out of the game; also when asked if Papelbon apologized he said Yeah but I don't care. This is so great.

Edgy MD Sep 27 2015 05:44 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Not for nothing, but in the second angle, Harper can be seen hitting the back of the dugout pretty hard with Papelbon's hands to his throat. He might well have not been in any shape to continue. I guess if I'm Rizzo, I'd be sending Bon-Bon home early for the winter.

Rockin' Doc Sep 27 2015 05:44 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Harper popped out to left field and basically walked toward first base with his bat in hand. Papelbon started jawing at Harper (presumably about not running ball out) as he started down the dugout steps. Harper took issue and started yelling at Papelbon, who then went for Harper's throat. Matt Williams refused to give any detail regarding the incident. He stated it was a "family matter" and it will be dealt with internally. Confirmed that no one was hurt during the altercation.

d'Kong76 Sep 27 2015 06:11 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Q: Where was Werth when this was going down? A: He was polishing his ring.

Zvon Sep 27 2015 07:23 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Opposite view from what I saw on TV. Sheesh.

dinosaur jesus Sep 27 2015 07:27 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

It's funny, isn't it? Someone finally dares to suggest to Bryce Harper that a professional should always do his very best, no matter what the situation. Just a gentle admonishment from someone who knows what it takes to be a winner. But somehow, who's the bad guy here? Papelbon! That's the culture in DC in a nutshell. It's not about winning, it's about keeping the superstar happy. Don't criticize him. Don't put your hands around his throat and slam his head against a wall. Back in the day, if a young slugger had dogged it on a popup, do you know what Walter Johnson would have done? No one knows, because they knew not to try it.

Fman99 Sep 27 2015 08:20 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

The whole thing is utterly great.

Frayed Knot Sep 27 2015 08:45 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I actually don't think Harper is in the wrong here. Yeah he jogged down to 1st, but it was a weak pop-up behind 2nd where he wasn't getting to 2nd even if the ball was somehow dropped. And if someone wants to call Harper out for non-hustling it probably shouldn't be a reliever who's been on the team for about 20 minutes. If Werth, Zimmerman, or of course Williams wants to do so then fine. But Papelbon was clearly the aggressor here both verbally and physically and, even if you think he's in the right here, he's certainly NOT right in how he went about it. Harper could use a comeuppance every now and then, but I don't think this particular incident was the time or the place.

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2015 10:18 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

[fimg=350:1x8yc1rc]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2015/09/27/Sports/Images/490330798.jpg[/fimg:1x8yc1rc] Where's you ring? ... Try looking around your collar.

RealityChuck Sep 28 2015 10:31 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

dinosaur jesus wrote: Back in the day, if a young slugger had dogged it on a popup, do you know what Walter Johnson would have done? No one knows, because they knew not to try it. Johnson was known for his kindly and gentle demeanor so even if he said anything, it would have been just a quiet word, likely in private. Ty Cobb, however, would have killed him.

Centerfield Sep 28 2015 10:41 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Bryce Harper should be running out ground balls. Any veteran/coach/manager is perfectly ok to point this out and call him on it. The timing on this one is obviously not great, since, as FK pointed out, even if it was dropped you're not going for 2nd base there anyway. Papelbon is a dick. It's well documented that he's a dick. His teammates hate him and I have seen enough quotes to understand why. His underlying message might be right, but that's what happens when you're a dick. Even when you're right, you're wrong. He was also wrong, obviously, to go after him in public, then to attack him physically. I have no idea what Harper is like as a person. Certainly he seems arrogant and dislikeable, but I've never heard him blame his teammates, or disparage anyone. Maybe he's a great guy. Who knows. It would be interesting to see who the other Nationals side with. The only thing that disappoints me is that this might ensure that Matt Williams will not be back next year. I think this is not fair. Williams is clearly the man for the job and should be given another chance to right this ship. In fact, ten more chances. Sign Williams to a 10 year extension NOW!!!!

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 10:53 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

The Nats who are going to bother with sides are going to side with Harper. (1) He's their bread and butter. (2) He has been their teammate far longer and can expect to be around far longer. (3) Papelbon started this verbally and escalated it to physical. There's no stock in siding with him. Even the guys in the bullpen aren't gonna wanna sit next to him. Rizzo should just send him home at this point. That said, Harper's got a track record of being a dick going back 'til when he was like 15. Scouting reports going back to high school were all over it. The real wonder is that Matt Williams said he wasn't really aware of what happened. (1) It went down in your dugout, where you sit during the game. (2) You had to pull your best player as a result. And you didn't know quite what happened? How disengaged can you get?

Centerfield Sep 28 2015 11:47 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

CUT IT OUT ED. MATT WILLIAMS IS A GREAT MANAGER. SAY IT WITH ME.

Lefty Specialist Sep 28 2015 11:53 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Not just Matt Williams, but Mike Rizzo as well. The Mets should vote each of them a playoff share.

Ceetar Sep 28 2015 11:54 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

meanwhile Paps officially suspended for 7 games (the original 3+ 4 for this incident) and Matt Williams is 90 minutes late for his pre-game press conference.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 11:55 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

So, Papelbon is done as a National. And maybe Williams as well. Bench Coach Randy Knorr, your moment is now.

Lefty Specialist Sep 28 2015 11:56 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Wonder who picks him up next year in exchange for some washed-up A-Baller. Because there's no way he's coming back to the Nats next season.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 11:59 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I wonder if they made any attempts to trade him last night. The Angels (for instance) could use a week's worth of an All-Star closer. But he probably hasn't cleared waivers.

Ceetar Sep 28 2015 12:05 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Edgy MD wrote: I wonder if they made any attempts to trade him last night. The Angels (for instance) could use a week's worth of an All-Star closer. But he probably hasn't cleared waivers. doubt it, better off trying to trade in the offseason with more time and clubs to deal with.

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2015 12:16 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

So that Nats nick him for 4 games on top of the league suspension for 3 (although he's still appealing that one) which conveniently adds up to the remainder of the season. Some think they ought to just cut him a check NOW!!!! for next year but I suspect they'll try to see what they can get for him over the winter. Thing is, they have to remake the bullpen now as it is. Dumping him just makes it that much of a bigger job.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 12:18 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Parnell for Lucas Giolito. Do it, Steve!! Or Omar!! Or whoever!!11!!

A Boy Named Seo Sep 28 2015 12:28 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I'm pretty sure Papelbon didn't give shit one about 'doing things the right way'. Harper embarrassed him last week when Pap hit Manny Machado and Harper didn't totally back his play. Papelbon's a baby and wanted to embarrass Harper back. It takes a real shit stain like Jonathan Papelbon to make me side with Bryce Harper. And also, LOLOLOLOLOL

dgwphotography Sep 28 2015 12:29 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Apparently, a few players agree with Papelbon: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit ... ing-092715 Including our old friend Hawk: https://twitter.com/LaTroyHawkins32/sta ... 4492099584 Latroy Hawkins on Twitter wrote: @CJNitkowski loved the article CJ, Pap will take a beating for this from everyone who doesn't play the game. #EntitlementGeneration

A Boy Named Seo Sep 28 2015 12:46 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Yes, Jonathan Papelbon, who grabbed at his dick in front of the Phillies fans (again, LOLOLOL) is the correct spokesman to educate MLB's "entitlement generation" on the correct way to behave. Love all of this stupidity.

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2015 12:55 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I still contend that the worst thing Harper is guilty of [u:2ft4m5oa]in this case[/u:2ft4m5oa] is bad body language. It's not so much that he was barely running (he wasn't going anywhere anyway) but that how he looked while barely running. I think at times he believes he should be able to hit every pitch 450 ft and so he winds up dropping his head and slumping his shoulders whenever he fails to do so. And, yes, I think this has a lot to do with the Machado bean-ball incident last week and the comments made afterward. Harper, and perhaps rightly so, assumed that he was going to get plunked in retaliation; his problem was saying so out loud. I'm not totally surprised by the comments Nitkowski was able to dig up, although: 1) were they all anti-Harper or is he just picking and choosing here? 2) I suspect most of the comments that are anti-Harper are more on general principles than about this one in particular. And how many of them run full speed during every automatic out? Papelbon has apparently dropped his appeal of the league suspension so he's officially done for the year.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 01:00 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Deadspin suggested Nitkowski put his own comments in the mouths of nameless "players" — pretty much suggesting he made them up. So I'm glad he was able to get somebody to back him, even if I disagree.

Lefty Specialist Sep 28 2015 01:16 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Harper's certainly been known not to hustle on occasion. (Papelbon would have a field day with Yoenis Cespedes.) But on this one occasion, I can't fault Harper for jogging down to first. Pretty much any major leaguer would have. Paps was waiting for an opportunity to show up Harper after Harper threw Papelbon under the bus in the Machado incident. It's high school stuff, except with millionaire athletes with a little too much Red Bull in their balls.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 28 2015 01:17 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I was just thinking the other day that Bryce Harper is a Reggie Jackson-type. Brash and arrogant, but has the talent to back it up, and at least he gives interesting interviews instead of the same dull cliches. A fight with a teammate in the dugout only makes him more Jacksonian.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 28 2015 01:19 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Sure sounds like Nitkowski and Hawkins are saying its ok to resort to violence when a guy doesn't run the bases properly. Muffy would have been dead years ago.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2015 01:26 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Yeah, I don't think they're thinking it through/seemingly don't realize that he initiated the violence. Where's the old-school, Billy Wagner-style passive-aggressive enforcement when you need it?

dinosaur jesus Sep 28 2015 01:46 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

I just think it's hilarious that when dickheads fight, everybody has to pick a side. It's like King Kong vs. Godzilla. They're both huge ugly monsters that want to destroy your city. But when they're fighting each other, you have to root for one of them. Papelbon makes it easy, I admit. His mother probably wanted Harper to smack his stupid face. I also think it's hilarious that Nats fans think Harper always hustles. When you're a star, the home town folks attribute all kinds of imaginary virtues to you. Unless you play in Philly, of course.

Elster88 Sep 28 2015 06:14 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Nitkowski seems like an ass too. Is he? CJ, being part of a major league clubhouse does not give you some special insight here. There are the same types of asshole in every walk of life.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 28 2015 06:16 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Nats fans think Harper always hustles because Nats fans don't really watch all that much baseball. Or, you know, so I gather. Who's picking a side here? Can't we just applaud?

Elster88 Sep 28 2015 06:19 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

ABNS has it perfect: LOLOLOLL

Zvon Sep 28 2015 07:16 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

amazing...

dgwphotography Sep 29 2015 07:14 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Elster88 wrote: ABNS has it perfect: LOLOLOLL With the exception of the MFY's, I have a hard time feeling any schadenfreude when a rival has issues like this. We don't need that kind of karma.

Farmer Ted Sep 29 2015 01:52 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

SportsPickle Jonathan Papelbon Arrested After Strangling Man with 17 Grocery Items in “15 Items Or Less” Line BETHESDA, MD?—?Suspended Washington Nationals closer Jonathan Papelbon is in police custody today after being arrested for attempting to strangle a customer in line in front of him at Whole Foods who placed 17 items on the belt in the “15 Items Or Less” express checkout line. Papelbon nearly choked the elderly man out before he was pulled away by cashier ladies and an egg delivery man. Police were immediately called to the scene by the store manager while Papelbon was held on the ground. “Is there no code here?! Is there no code in this Whole Foods?!” Papelbon repeatedly yelled. “That man had 17 items! The sign clearly said 15! Someone had to say what needed to be said! Has the whole world gone mad?!” But according to eye witnesses, Papelbon said almost nothing to the 84-year old grandfather of 11 before locking his hands around the man’s neck. “I heard Papelbon counting out the last few items the man placed on the belt, ‘13, 14, 15, 16 … 17!’” said a woman who saw the attack. “He got louder with each number. And when that last item hit the belt, he screamed ‘SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!’ and began strangling the guy with all his might.” Reactions were mixed throughout the grocery store over the incident. Some said that the “15 items” limit is more a loose suggestion, like a speed limit; while others said many people take advantage of the express aisle and try to go through with large orders. “I’m glad someone finally did something about it,” said one cashier who wished to remain anonymous. Leo Altshazer, the local retirement home resident Papelbon attacked, said he didn’t intentionally go over the 15-item limit. “I grabbed a handful of caramels from the candy aisle,” said Altshazer, rubbing his neck. “I didn’t know exactly how many I got and I didn’t know each individual caramel counted as an item.” Papelbon is expected to be bailed out of jail later today by Nationals manager Matt Williams.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 29 2015 02:00 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

The Garfoose has a very funny, well-written and probably most accurate take I've read on this https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/b ... tten-rules BRYCE HARPER, JONATHAN PAPELBON, AND THE PROBLEM WITH UNWRITTEN RULES In baseball, nothing says your season is over like a closer strangling his MVP teammate, mid-game, on national television. There are other ways to signal irrelevance, of course, but Jonathan Papelbon taking Bryce Harper by his throat and slamming him into the concrete of the Nationals' home dugout wall on Sunday was both a novel and action-packed way of doing it. The kerfuffle embarrassed everyone involved, and left fans to wonder if this was a case of deeper team issues bubbling to the surface. Possibly. Something is clearly not cooking right in Washington, but this particular simple assault unfolded in a very complicated workplace. Baseball is a hell of a place to work. Think about what would happen in your working world if you took a co-worker by the throat and a mob of junior executives had to drag you apart like a pair of crazed dogs? Worst case, you're both fired, someone's arrested for assault, and lawsuits get passed around like pink eye. Best case is unpaid leave and some HR-mandated anger management courses. In baseball, however, you shower, ice your throat, and get ready for the next game, tying the issue off with a bow as Harper did, saying, "I mean, he (Papelbon) apologized, so, whatever... It's like brothers fighting, that's what happens." Right, that's what happens. Which is why Matt Williams, who didn't even see all this go down despite being the team's manager and sitting in the same dugout, can say something as benign as, "It's no fun when stuff like this happens, but it does happen, and you must deal with it, and that is what we do," and, poof, it all goes away. Hurray! Another crisis averted by complete and utter apathy—the hallmark of a manager whose job will also vanish with a poof come the end of the season. But how can a manager, or even the players themselves, be this apathetic about a fight among teammates? Simply put, because it's the logical conclusion of the testosterone-driven, dick-measuring culture that is the basis for nearly every unwritten rule the sport has ever concocted. In a locker room, the moral high ground is attained via getting older, not wiser. Thus, he who has been there longer makes the rules. This is Papelbon. The only way to change those rules, beyond becoming the longest-tenured yourself, is to play so well that the rules no longer apply to you. This is Harper. But, even then, you're not safe from the clubhouse purists who believe the sport should be played exclusively by battle-hardened veterans whose only emotional note is white-hot righteous anger. There is a camp that believes this fight stems from the fact that Harper is a young, flashy, emotionally demonstrative prick who doesn't always hustle, can be whiny, and has been known to say brash stuff, like, "That's a clown question, bro." The only reason he hasn't gotten his comeuppance, in this reading, is because he's played well enough to avoid it. Enter Papelbon; the perfect trigger-happy lunatic for the job of teaching superstars, home and away, lessons on proper baseball behavior. This is a guy who is deranged enough to drill Orioles star, Manny Machado, and then say "Perception is reality. If Manny thinks I hit him, that's what he thinks." Uh, that's not what he thinks, Pap, that's actually what you did. Papelbon isn't the only player who likes to reject reality and substitute his own—every player does it at some point. Fact is, playing baseball for a living is an exercise in suspending the reality of others in order to see your own fulfilled. Doing so is a prerequisite for making it to, and in, the majors. Let's run through evolution of a rookie for a moment. In order to get to the big leagues, you're supposed to follow one of baseball's oldest truisms, Fake It 'Til You Make It. That is, you're supposed to act like a big leaguer even though you aren't, and to play with the brashness of the best in the game, because that's what you're trying to be. However, if you actually make it, you're supposed to Act Like You've Been There Before, and like being in the bigs is no big deal. So keep your head down, your mouth shut, and obey anyone with more service time than you—which is everyone—until you've done something useful. Most importantly, you must play the game right way—a holy baseball term for which there is no known definition besides the objective whimsy of your veteran teammates, the opposition, and the media. It is an amorphous standard that will nonetheless govern your existence as long as you have a jersey on your back. Take the current frontrunner for the American League MVP, Josh Donaldson. Upon his arrival in the Bigs, his teammates hated him. In recent profile on Donaldson by Ken Rosenthal, Johnny Gomes said, "The guys who had been there were like, 'He's kind of a jackass, kind of like in his own world. He does this. He does that.'" Then Gomes added, "I thought in my head, 'Those are all characteristics of a superstar. That's how superstars act.'" Yes, superstars do have a tendency to suspend the concerns of others in favor of their own. But think about what a problem such an overt lack of awareness is when you work in a profession like American Baseball, where the preferred tool for teaching is assault, and no one has any idea what that lesson is actually being taught because all the important stuff is not written down anywhere. This also reveals the loose thread of hypocrisy that holds the whole tapestry together. When Josh Donaldson started having incredible success, the script flipped. Suddenly, him being a jackass wasn't what made him play the game wrong, it was the character trait that made him so good to begin with. Said Brandon Moss of Donaldson, "It's not an arrogance of, 'I'm the best.' It's an arrogance of, 'I'm going to show you why I'm the best.' He wants to go out and prove it every single night. He literally wears every at-bat on his sleeve." Wears his at-bat on his sleeve, huh? You mean like Harper did when he, out of frustration, threw his helmet and bat and didn't run out a pop-up? Is that him actually being the best, or him just showing you why he's the best? Hard to say, but better choke him just to be sure. Oddly, while baseball's social norms are about as clear as mud, one thing is crystal: baseball is full of fragile narcissists who justify a great deal of their behavior by citing sources that don't exist. They rationalize their foolish behavior as customary or, worse, crucial to the development of a younger generation. The system that makes Jonathan Papelbon a narcissistic borderline fascist is the same system that encourages Bryce Harper to be a narcissistic egomaniac. And what happens when two narcissists clash? That's easy, one ices his neck and says it's what brothers do; the other goes home a week early and gets a head start on spending the $11 million option he already had picked up for next season. Both agree that it was just another day in baseball. *Poof*

Edgy MD Sep 29 2015 02:28 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

That's good stuff. In a locker room, the moral high ground is attained via getting older, not wiser. Thus, he who has been there longer makes the rules. This is Papelbon. The only way to change those rules, beyond becoming the longest-tenured yourself, is to play so well that the rules no longer apply to you. This is Harper. But, even then, you're not safe from the clubhouse purists who believe the sport should be played exclusively by battle-hardened veterans whose only emotional note is white-hot righteous anger. There is a camp that believes this fight stems from the fact that Harper is a young, flashy, emotionally demonstrative prick who doesn't always hustle, can be whiny, and has been known to say brash stuff, like, "That's a clown question, bro." The only reason he hasn't gotten his comeuppance, in this reading, is because he's played well enough to avoid it. One thing I'd add. It's perhaps meaningful that the day this all went down is the day after the Nats were elimated. In other words, Papebon finally had the upper hand to strike (or felt he did) because it was the day that Harper being the best player on the team suddenly didn't matter anymore.

dinosaur jesus Sep 29 2015 02:36 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

dgwphotography wrote: ABNS has it perfect: LOLOLOLL With the exception of the MFY's, I have a hard time feeling any schadenfreude when a rival has issues like this. We don't need that kind of karma. My schadenfreude is directed mostly against Harper and Papelbon. Actually Harper; Papelbon is a bigger asshole than Harper will ever be, but he's never really been on my asshole radar before. Harper aside, I actually kind of like the Nationals. I like that there's a team in DC (no offense, Montreal), I like their uniforms, I like that Davey Johnson who managed them when they first got good. I'm delighted, of course, that they fell apart so spectacularly this year, but it's nothing personal.

Vic Sage Sep 29 2015 03:30 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Any time Harper gets strangled and has his head bounced off a concrete wall, i'm a happy boy.

Ceetar Sep 29 2015 03:35 PM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

dinosaur jesus wrote: My schadenfreude is directed mostly against Harper and Papelbon. Actually Harper; Papelbon is a bigger asshole than Harper will ever be, but he's never really been on my asshole radar before. Harper aside, I actually kind of like the Nationals. I like that there's a team in DC (no offense, Montreal), I like their uniforms, I like that Davey Johnson who managed them when they first got good. I'm delighted, of course, that they fell apart so spectacularly this year, but it's nothing personal. I'm just the opposite. I like Harper, the rest is whatever.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 30 2015 07:46 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

It bears noting... Perception: Harper does not hustle. Fact: Harper's average time from home to first base is among the top one-third in all of baseball. His average speed down the line is even higher than that. He hustles pretty damn hard actually... Harper's average from home to first this season: 4.82 seconds, 113th of 347 players. That's the same as speedy Ketel Marte and Carlos Gomez, .01 behind Adam Jones and Yoenis Cespedes, .02 behind Juan Lagares and Lorenzo Cain, and .04 back of Mike Trout... Harper, angry with himself, took less than one second to express frustration at the ball he lofted before starting to jog to first base. He reached the base before the ball was caught. From the time it hit the bat to when it was caught, the ball hung in the air for 6.08 seconds, meaning even if Harper busted it out of the batter's box like a banshee, the chances of him taking second base on a Jeff Francoeur error were minuscule. Harper may have a demeanor that makes him seem like an asshole... but Papelbon is an asshole to the core; it makes total sense that he'd age into this kind of asshole.

Edgy MD Sep 30 2015 07:53 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Perception and reality may diverge, but I'm not down with the idea that average-time-to-first and hustle are precisely the same thing. It's an indicator, but certainly not the bottom line. Average time to first is a function of a lot of things: hustle, yes, but also youth, girth, left-handedness, number of balls to the 5-6 hole rather than popped up, etc.

Frayed Knot Sep 30 2015 07:58 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

When Matt Williams benched Harper (in early 2014) it was for a similar and ultimately meaningless non-hustle play. That one didn't result in a fight so it was only a minor story at the time, but it was a come-backer where Usain Bolt would have been out by 35 feet. What got Harper in trouble was that he had the same sort of bad body language which made his jog look a lot worse than it was. Williams seemed to jump on the opportunity to try and score hisself some tough guy points by sitting dow the star just weeks into his tenure over an incident which, like this recent one, didn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. But it's ABs like that one and the Papelbon one that get Harper this rep that he really only barely deserves. If anything he probably spends more time over-hustling.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 30 2015 08:07 AM Re: Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

Edgy MD wrote: Deadspin suggested Nitkowski put his own comments in the mouths of nameless "players" — pretty much suggesting he made them up. So I'm glad he was able to get somebody to back him, even if I disagree. This would mean the Nitkowski has now fully assimilated into the world of sports journalism, sources close to sports journalism tell me.