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Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

soupcan Oct 19 2015 07:17 AM

This is a thing?

Lefty Specialist Oct 19 2015 07:26 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Some clips of him on Fatcessa saying the Mets have so many options at second (Flores/Herrera, et al.) that Murph might not be their best use of funds. He said his game has holes which is absolutely correct. He pointed out the fielding problems and brain farts. He was rather blunt about it and the sportsyakkers are going off because there's nothing else to complain about. Murphy's playing like Babe Ruth's older brother and Ryne Sandberg rolled together this postseason, so it's instantly a scandal because everybody knows Daniel will sustain this HR pace for the life of a long-term contract. I mean, at this pace he'd hit 115 home runs a year.

soupcan Oct 19 2015 07:32 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gotcha. Thanks. I figured it was something like that. I do greatly dislike the two boobs on WFAN in the morning.

dgwphotography Oct 19 2015 07:41 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Actually, Cohen was on Joe and Evan. The clip is on this page from last Wednesday: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/joe-b ... n-roberts/

Lefty Specialist Oct 19 2015 08:18 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I'd actually heard the clips on Mike & Mike in the morning of all places, so I didn't hear the whole thing in context. But the point remains. Gary isn't convinced Murph is the best fit going forward. Easy to jump on him now, but during the season, Murph was a slightly above-average hitter with a modest amount of pop who was a below average fielder prone to gaffes in the field and on the bases. And Dilson Herrera and Wilmer Flores are going to need places to play.

dgwphotography Oct 19 2015 08:27 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Lefty Specialist wrote: I'd actually heard the clips on Mike & Mike in the morning of all places, so I didn't hear the whole thing in context. But the point remains. Gary isn't convinced Murph is the best fit going forward. Easy to jump on him now, but during the season, Murph was a slightly above-average hitter with a modest amount of pop who was a below average fielder prone to gaffes in the field and on the bases. And Dilson Herrera and Wilmer Flores are going to need places to play. I saw an interesting stat regarding Murphy's numbers since the Cespedes trade showing the difference between Cespedes hitting directly behind Murphy and when he isn't. the difference is eye-opening.

Centerfield Oct 19 2015 08:39 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gary is right. Spend the money on Cespedes. Let the Dilson Herrera Era begin. Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too. I'd love to bring him back on a 1 year deal, but he will sign a long-term deal elsewhere.

Ceetar Oct 19 2015 09:02 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I've been saying the Mets will offer Murphy the Qualifying offer and let him walk all season, nothing that happens over a small sample of games, however important, will change that.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 09:14 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

They should certainly offer him the QO.

Fman99 Oct 19 2015 09:14 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

soupcan wrote: I do greatly dislike the two boobs Your words hurt.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 19 2015 09:28 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

We should probably stop speculating on the offseason while there's still important work to do but I myself am seeing the opportunity for more Muffy than I used to given the uncertainty at 3rd and 1st we're also seeing. Did not think I'd come around to that.

Ashie62 Oct 19 2015 09:49 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I see Muffy getting the bigger bucks in somewhere other than Citifield.

seawolf17 Oct 19 2015 10:18 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Centerfield wrote: Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too. You know, I can't get that comparison out of my head either. And that's a good thing.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 19 2015 11:05 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

seawolf17 wrote: Hey, we let Knight go after '86. We can let Murphy walk too. You know, I can't get that comparison out of my head either. And that's a good thing. I like the Murphy-Knight comparison better than the one I've seen Yankees fans making on Twitter: Brosius.

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 11:11 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Enjoying the hell out of the run that Moiph is on but we all never really expected his return and I'm fine with him getting his big payday somewhere else. Preferably in the AL out west somewhere. Let's Go Moiph!!!

Frayed Knot Oct 19 2015 11:25 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

dgwphotography wrote: Actually, Cohen was on Joe and Evan. The clip is on this page from last Wednesday: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/joe-b ... n-roberts/ Not that I disagree with Cohen's overall assessment on the (well known) drawbacks of Murphy or the prospects of signing him, but I was surprised by his use of the term "net negative" to describe him. He was much more negative to Murph than I expected or even thought warranted.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 11:27 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I think Daniel Murphy has more good years ahead of him right now than Ray Knight had after 1986. And I'm not just saying that in hindsight; Knight was a past-his-prime player who had a well-timed (and temporary) comeback in 1986. But enough about Ray Knight... I wish Murphy still had one more year left on his contract, because I don't think he'll be so easily replaced in 2016. Is Dilson Herrera ready to step in and be a productive hitter at the age of 22? Maybe... but if he can't produce close to what Murphy did the Mets will have taken a step back in their offense, especially if (as is likely) Cespedes departs as well. I'm not spending too much time these days worrying about 2016; the 2015 ride is still too much fun. But I do want another division title next year, and the Mets will have a challenging offseason. I'd hate to see them go back to the offense that they had the first half of this year although, if healthy, Wright, d'Arnaud, and Conforto should be an upgrade over Campbell, Plawecki, and Cuddyer.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2015 11:32 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: if healthy, Wright, d'Arnaud, and Conforto should be an upgrade over Campbell, Plawecki, and Cuddyer. That's some cautious-assed optimism. Me, I'm fee-URIOUS that we're letting the cart get ahead of the horse here. Murphy should not be reading stories about how the Mets are going to let him walk. He should be reading stories about how is an unrelenting demon, making a travesty of this whole playoff thing.

TransMonk Oct 19 2015 11:37 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Yeah, a lot of this talk is a couple weeks premature, but... I have no problem extending a QO to Daniel, but I hope the Mets continue to pick and develop youngsters rather than having to overpay for and give long-term contracts to players that are on the wrong side of 30. With the type of player Murphy is and the output he gives, I'm not sure his decline will be as significant, but I hope the Mets stay the course on the commitment to youth. That said, my biggest worry about replacing Murph with Herrera is the loss of the lefty bat as a middle infield option...followed closely by losing the backup at first and third.

Centerfield Oct 19 2015 11:56 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Part of the reason I want this ride to keep going is that I don't know when the Mets will put this complete a team out there again. Right now, we have all four aces healthy, the entire starting lineup healthy, we have 2 extra starters in the bullpen, and a deep bench. All of this materialized because our young talent developed while the old guard was still here. This type of depth probably cannot be duplicated. I believe we will be a weaker team next year, even if we bring back Cespedes. We have to hope that Alderson can mix and match and find the right combination of players to make another playoff push in the years to come. But, as everyone acknowledges, this is a subject for another day.

Gwreck Oct 19 2015 11:56 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

TransMonk wrote: That said, my biggest worry about replacing Murph with Herrera is the loss of the lefty bat as a middle infield option...followed closely by losing the backup at first and third. Can't we just re-sign Kelly Johnson to be that backup? --- I do think that the Mets can afford to lose Cespedes and Murphy so long as they are adequately replaced. I'd probably rather the Mets overpay for Justin Upton (2 years younger than Cespedes) than either Murph or Cespedes.

Gwreck Oct 19 2015 11:58 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it. Gives us one year of him and then we can sign Neil Walker of the Pirates as a free agent after 2016. Walker...he's just like Murphy without the mental errors and better defense.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 12:06 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gwreck wrote: Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it. I agree with that. I think we can use him for one more year.

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 12:11 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it.

TransMonk Oct 19 2015 12:18 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gwreck wrote: Can't we just re-sign Kelly Johnson to be that backup? Gwreck wrote: Also, I would of course extend Murphy the qualifying offer...and kind of hope he accepts it. Yes and yes.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 12:22 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

d'Kong76 wrote: I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it. He probably wouldn't, but at least the Mets would get the draft pick.

Frayed Knot Oct 19 2015 01:29 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Yeah, Knight was a full three years older in '86 than Murph is now so they shouldn't be treated as equal situations and the rules governing things are different now as well. On the flip side Ray also wasn't going to be able to command a multi-year contract they way Muffy will. I think most if not all of us would keep Murph on a one or two year deal. Knight was offered a one year deal but insisted on two (although he's since denied that) which is what caused his exit. And although it became popular to point to his absence as a reason for never repeating I never bought it, especially as how Knight went on to have two very mediocre seasons for some very bad teams and then was out of the game. As far as Murph goes -- keeping in mind that this is from someone who's been predicting -- not hoping for, but predicting -- his departure from Queens for about two years now, I'd be quite surprised to see him back. There'll be some push back on this especially given how this October has gone so far but, like Cespedes's August, the front office can't use the very short term on which to base decisions about the long term. Kind of funny though how the QO seems like a right move now when I know it was being dismissed out of hand both in many places as well as this forum.

Gwreck Oct 19 2015 01:33 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Frayed Knot wrote: Kind of funny though how the QO seems like a right move now when I know it was being dismissed out of hand both in many places as well as this forum. Although, prior to this postseason performance, there was a much higher chance of Murphy accepting the QO.

metsmarathon Oct 19 2015 02:02 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

d'Kong76 wrote: I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it. i think that murphy gets a substantially lesser deal with a compensation pick attached to him than he would otherwise, and that's why he might accept the QO.

Centerfield Oct 19 2015 02:05 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I wonder if these short term performances by Murphy/Cespedes will have a significant impact on the types of deals they receive. You'd think that with GM's being more and more careful, that this kind of thing would carry less weight. But maybe not. You only need one sucker who believes in the Clutch Fairy. It will hurt but you let Murphy and Bartolo go. Go all in on Cespedes. He is the only one who can play center and allows you to play Conforto in LF and platoon Granderson/Cuddyer in RF. Give him 5-6 years. Go for it for the next 4 years. Rebuild after that.

Ceetar Oct 19 2015 02:06 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

metsmarathon wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I'd like that, but see no reason why he would do it. i think that murphy gets a substantially lesser deal with a compensation pick attached to him than he would otherwise, and that's why he might accept the QO. still plenty of protected teams though.

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 02:06 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Well, let's just back burner this and sweep the Cubs and win the World Series and then...

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 02:07 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I'm not sure how "substantial" the difference might be, but it's entirely possible that Murphy's free agent contract would pay less than $15 million per year, so he might opt to take a one-year deal to stay with the Mets and maybe have another exciting playoff run. The drawback to doing that, of course, is that he'd be deferring free agency for a year and after 2016 he'll be a year older than he is now, and probably not coming off of a scalding hot postseason.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2015 02:14 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Centerfield wrote: Give him 5-6 years. Go for it for the next 4 years. Rebuild after that. Things I'd suggest for a Mets Cespedes contract: No no-trade clause. (He won't be a five-and-ten until after the sixth year of the contract since he has only four years of service so far.) And front-load it instead of back-loading it. I don't know why so many contracts are back-loaded; you commit yourself to paying more for a player in his late thirties than in his early thirties, and with that ballooning contract he's less tradeable as well. Even with front-loading, Cespedes could become an albatross in 2020 and 2021, but at least he wouldn't be an albatross making $30 million per year. Is there any reason why players would prefer to get their money later rather than sooner? Inflation? I can't imagine that inflation has too big an effect on someone making that much money. If the price of a gallon of gas or a carton of milk turns out to be a bit higher in 2021, I don't think it has too big an effect on multimillionaires.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 19 2015 02:28 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Centerfield wrote: Part of the reason I want this ride to keep going is that I don't know when the Mets will put this complete a team out there again. Right now, we have all four aces healthy, the entire starting lineup healthy, we have 2 extra starters in the bullpen, and a deep bench. All of this materialized because our young talent developed while the old guard was still here. All of this also materialized because the Mets had an insurance policy on David Wright that kicked in, saving them 75% of his 2015 salary, and because the Mets didn't have to pay Mejia. That's how Sandy was able to strengthen the bench and take on the rest of Cespedes's 2015 salary. But what next year? Will the Mets still be the same broke? Because if they're gonna be as broke next year as they were at the beginning of this season, the Murphy re-signing would be a non-issue. And Cespedes beyond this year -- a child's dream.

Ceetar Oct 19 2015 02:34 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Centerfield wrote: Part of the reason I want this ride to keep going is that I don't know when the Mets will put this complete a team out there again. Right now, we have all four aces healthy, the entire starting lineup healthy, we have 2 extra starters in the bullpen, and a deep bench. All of this materialized because our young talent developed while the old guard was still here. All of this also materialized because the Mets had an insurance policy on David Wright that kicked in, saving them 75% of his 2015 salary, and because the Mets didn't have to pay Mejia. That's how Sandy was able to strengthen the bench and take on the rest of Cespedes's 2015 salary. But what next year? Will the Mets still be the same broke? Because if they're gonna be as broke next year as they were at the beginning of this season, the Murphy re-signing would be a non-issue. And Cespedes beyond this year -- a child's dream. even if that was all true, the Mets made, conservatively, 3 million from each of 4 playoff games just from ticket sales and are guaranteed a 5th. And then there's parking (easily another half million+), and in-game merch sales. Then there is all the increased 2016 season ticket sales to guarantee 2015 playoff tickets, and these are important because they actually raise the expected 2016 revenue in which to measure payroll against. And then there is the inevitable raised rates for advertising both at the park, on giveaways, and on SNY.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 19 2015 02:36 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Centerfield wrote: Part of the reason I want this ride to keep going is that I don't know when the Mets will put this complete a team out there again. Right now, we have all four aces healthy, the entire starting lineup healthy, we have 2 extra starters in the bullpen, and a deep bench. All of this materialized because our young talent developed while the old guard was still here. All of this also materialized because the Mets had an insurance policy on David Wright that kicked in, saving them 75% of his 2015 salary, and because the Mets didn't have to pay Mejia. That's how Sandy was able to strengthen the bench and take on the rest of Cespedes's 2015 salary. But what next year? Will the Mets still be the same broke? Because if they're gonna be as broke next year as they were at the beginning of this season, the Murphy re-signing would be a non-issue. And Cespedes beyond this year -- a child's dream. even if that was all true, the Mets made, conservatively, 3 million from each of 4 playoff games just from ticket sales and are guaranteed a 5th. And then there's parking (easily another half million+), and in-game merch sales. Then there is all the increased 2016 season ticket sales to guarantee 2015 playoff tickets, and these are important because they actually raise the expected 2016 revenue in which to measure payroll against. And then there is the inevitable raised rates for advertising both at the park, on giveaways, and on SNY. That's true. And it might help. Not that I'd know. But we'll find out soon enough.

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 02:36 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Do we really know the insurance policy and not paying Mejia was the real reason they made some moves? I don't think so, but I'm all ears to someone who really knows.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2015 02:50 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Reasons to backload: [list][*]Revenues/luxury tax limits are likely to be higher later on.[/*:m] [*]You get a competitive advantage during the player's prime. Pay them a lower rate right now and you have a few bucks left over to surround your big shot dude with complementary talent.[/*:m] [*]You have time to plan for the expense, unloading other albatross deals and replacing them with younger/cheaper guys.[/*:m] [*]You can make $$ now on the deal while the player is young and excellent, garnering post-season revenues that can be put toward future contracts[/*:m] [*]If that doesn't work out, you can will the shitty butt end of the deal to your successor.[/*:m] [*]You might be able to trade all or part of that contract to another team, thus sharing the cost of the later years of the deal.[/*:m] [*]You can amortize some of the premium.[/*:m] [*]Maybe the dude will retire before the end is nigh. It fucking could happen.[/*:m][/list:u] Obviously, there are plenty of good reasons not to backload a contract, but it's human nature (if not necessarily good business sense) to kick problems down the road, figuring or hoping you will solve them before the marker comes due.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2015 02:51 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

d'Kong76 wrote: Do we really know the insurance policy and not paying Mejia was the real reason they made some moves? I don't think so, but I'm all ears to someone who really knows. Paging HVAC Guy!

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 03:17 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I think he retired, took some union buyout package and moved to Sanibel Island last I heard... *clink*

Gwreck Oct 19 2015 04:02 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Your overall point about the Mets making more money for being in the playoffs is correct. But this is not: Ceetar wrote: the Mets made, conservatively, 3 million from each of 4 playoff games just from ticket sales and are guaranteed a 5th. 60% of the ticket sales from all 4 of those games go to the players' pool, not to the Mets, as per the CBA.

d'Kong76 Oct 19 2015 04:12 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I had no idea some player's pool got that sweet a gate %. I'd charge $9 for a beer and $25 to park too if my tickets sales weren't going in my pocket. (half kidding about the latter part)

Gwreck Oct 19 2015 04:18 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

d'Kong76 wrote: I had no idea some player's pool got that sweet a gate %. Players pool gets: 50% of gate of each WC game 60% of gate of each of the first 3 games of all 4 division series 60% of gate of each of the first 4 games of both LCS 60% of gate of each of the first 4 games of the WS The rest of the gate goes not directly to the clubs hosting the game but into some sort of pool that is then distributed to the participating clubs. I think; I can't remember exactly how the distribution goes thereafter.

Ashie62 Oct 19 2015 06:10 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I'm keeping it simple and rooting for a Mets WS title from whomever it may come.

Frayed Knot Oct 19 2015 08:19 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

d'Kong76 wrote: I had no idea some player's pool got that sweet a gate %. It's merely the formula for determining how large the pool money is for the post-season participants. The more money the games take in the bigger a pile they get to divvy up. Note that the players' portion is determined from the take in the early games in each series rather than the later ones. That's from an old idea to prevent the players from each team getting together and "arranging" for the series to run to the maximum so as to increase their shares. This way a longer series benefits the league and owners but not the players directly.

Ceetar Oct 19 2015 08:25 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gwreck wrote: Your overall point about the Mets making more money for being in the playoffs is correct. But this is not: Ceetar wrote: the Mets made, conservatively, 3 million from each of 4 playoff games just from ticket sales and are guaranteed a 5th. 60% of the ticket sales from all 4 of those games go to the players' pool, not to the Mets, as per the CBA. well sure, but the Mets ultimately get money from that as well right? Mets ticket prices and income obviously much higher than say Kansas City, but they're making a pretty penny from this. And really the big thing is the 2016 purchases and expected attendance increases beyond already purchased tickets. They drew 400k more fans in 2015 so factoring that into expected revenue is pretty significant, never mind what they project beyond that based on the actual success. They'll eclipse 3 million fans next year and their 'max' is only like 3.5.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 19 2015 10:06 PM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Gwreck wrote: Kind of funny though how the QO seems like a right move now when I know it was being dismissed out of hand both in many places as well as this forum. Although, prior to this postseason performance, there was a much higher chance of Murphy accepting the QO. This is the second biggest reason I've been so happy about Murph going SuperMurph... it increases the odds we can safely offer that QO. And Cespedes? Upton? You want sustained success, put the money into international signing/buying out arb years. Grow the talent base again, and trade the excess to build those future complete teams. (Oh, and Bart gets the Wakefield honorific: one year deals as long as he wants.)

seawolf17 Oct 20 2015 08:15 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Frayed Knot wrote: Yeah, Knight was a full three years older in '86 than Murph is now so they shouldn't be treated as equal situations I was just thinking about it from a "HOW COULD THEY LET THE WORLD SERIES MVP SIGN WITH THE YANKEES" kind of thing that we're going to see this winter. Benjamin Grimm wrote: Is there any reason why players would prefer to get their money later rather than sooner? Inflation? I can't imagine that inflation has too big an effect on someone making that much money. If the price of a gallon of gas or a carton of milk turns out to be a bit higher in 2021, I don't think it has too big an effect on multimillionaires. I've always wondered about this too. When I sign guys to extensions in OOTP, I always frontload them so if things get dicey later, I'm protected, but they still get their money.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2015 08:18 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

I answered above. I certainly agree about front-loading, but we don't exist in the same world as MLB GMs, and we're not playing for the same stakes.

Frayed Knot Oct 20 2015 08:32 AM Re: Gary Cohen Disparaging Murph?

Some in the Yanx front office used to refer to their penchant for overspending on large contracts with onerous back ends as 'Mañana Economics', the idea that, whatever the drawbacks, for now it allows them to stick with their supposed budgets and they'll deal with any fallout from it 'Mañana'.