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This Crow Tastes Like Crow

TransMonk Oct 22 2015 01:43 PM

There has never been a Mets team that has exceeded expectations and surprised me more than this team. I'm sorry for not believing in Terry Collins. I have often thought and said around here that he was a "placeholder" manager in place to get young players through the post-Madoff era. While I still think that could have been the thinking back in 2011, Terry has done a great job of keeping the team as competitive as the talent would allow and has really grown as a manager over the past few years along with the team. While I don't always agree with him move for move, everything he has touched in the postseason has turned to gold and it's hard for me not to trust him now. I hope he stays with the club for a few more years. I'm sorry for not believing in Sandy Alderson. I've been on board with Alderson's plan during the rebuild...in fact I welcomed it as necessary even during the lean years. But, I did not think he would be able to make the moves in July that would make the Mets strong WS contenders without giving up big pieces to get it done. I was wrong. I am not disappointed with any deal he made and admire that he did not get fleeced on the return. I'm sorry for writing the Mets off in May. And June. And July. I was pretty content to have this year be the last year of the rebuild and my expectations were set as such. When the injuries mounted and the offense became non-existent, I was ready to look to 2016. Luckily, the Mets did not share my opinion and kept their eyes on this year. I was even sqeamish when Game 5 of the NLDS came around. I should have known better. I'm ready to give in to this team. I now think that they CAN win the whole damn thing. I am now just believing in the amazing and miraculous things that this team can and will do. I love that they have proved me wrong.

themetfairy Oct 22 2015 01:52 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I thought that this would be a good year. I had no idea that it would be such a great one. Ya Gotta Believe!

dinosaur jesus Oct 22 2015 02:12 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I was wrong about Curtis Granderson last year, so I'll have a little bite of that crow. Tastes like chicken to me.

Lefty Specialist Oct 22 2015 02:38 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I was a doubter, too. I didn't think they'd do what it took at the deadline. I saw so many games in May, June and July that they gave away with that putrid offense. I was willing to write this off as another rebuilding year, getting the pitchers some experience, with 2016 as the year they would go for it. And as of July 25th, that's kind of the way it was looking. Trading for Cespedes floored me. And even picking a player like him up, there was no right to expect that he'd hit 17 home runs in 129 at-bats. That kind of stuff just doesn't happen. But the mere act of picking up Yoenis perked up the team and the fan base. For the first time I felt, "Hey, they're actually serious". And taking apart the Nationals that first weekend in August energized us and demoralized them. They just assumed they'd be able to turn it on, but instead they just sputtered as the Mets roared past them. Just the fact that they DID roar past is something none of us had seen. Remember, this was a team that had NEVER won the division after having a lead and then giving it away. (Granted, small sample size- they'd only won the division 5 times before this year). But even after all that, I'd have been content if they'd won the NLDS and lost the NLCS. Now, however, they're in the Big Show. Kill, Kill, Kill.

d'Kong76 Oct 22 2015 02:41 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

This crow needs some hot sauce. *caw caw*

Lefty Specialist Oct 22 2015 02:42 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

d'Kong76 wrote: This crow needs some hot sauce. *caw caw* With an iconic wooden cap.

G-Fafif Oct 22 2015 02:57 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I thought Granderson was a waste of resources. He's a bargain. I thought Collins was a caretaker in over his head. He's a leader of men. I thought Colon was taking starts better given to younger pitchers. He's a stabilizing force. I thought Murphy couldn't do anything right. He can't do anything wrong. I thought 2015 might be somewhat better than 2014. It's proving better than almost everything. Met-a culpa. And happily so.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 22 2015 03:04 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

In a fit of frustration earlier this year I advocated trading Syndergaard for Chase Utley. Other than that I was totally on everything.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 22 2015 03:11 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Wow, that would have been something! Utley would have had to break his own teammate's leg!

G-Fafif Oct 22 2015 03:19 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Would having Utley kill the "they're all so likable" narrative or would we admire his never-say-die fighting spirit? The latter, I assume.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 22 2015 03:57 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

This was when I was mad at Muffy back in April and determined to solve the Wright dilemma quickly. I also offered to sweeten the pot with Pawlecki.

Centerfield Oct 22 2015 04:40 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I started the thread "Curtis Granderson Sucks".

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 06:37 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Wanted Duda benched during the NLDS/CS. Thought Grandy was a worse signing than Luis Castillo. Also, thought Lagares was Endy Chavez Mk II and wanted him off the PS roster (I mostly blame the drummer of Def Leppard for this one).

Benjamin Grimm Oct 23 2015 06:44 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I seem to recall Endy Chavez making a key contribution or two in the 2006 postseason.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 23 2015 06:52 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I never ever said or wrote a single bad thing about Sandy Alderson. But I'll have some of that crow for thinking that Granderson was not too far from done.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 06:52 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I seem to recall Endy Chavez making a key contribution or two in the 2006 postseason. His goodwill from Game 7 was erased the following inning by grounding out with the bases loaded in one horrific AB.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 23 2015 07:03 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I can't agree with that.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 07:21 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

*shrugs* If Beltran made that catch i guarantee you he would not have been vilified for his AB the way he was. But nobody remembers Endy's AB (against an ailing Jeff Suppan) because of what he did the inning before. What Endy giveth, Endy taketh away.

MFS62 Oct 23 2015 07:22 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I was a member of the "It took the reliever 8 pitches to get three outs. Why can't he go another inning" club that criticized Terry's systematic bullpen usage. I also disliked his resting the regulars in games down the stretch and not go for home field advantage over L.A. I'll eat some crow, but please pluck out all the pinfeathers first. Later

Gwreck Oct 23 2015 07:25 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: His goodwill from Game 7 was erased the following inning by grounding out with the bases loaded in one horrific AB. Chavez hit a fly ball to center to end the 6th. It was Valentin that struck out with the bases loaded and only one out. Chavez also singled in the 9th to put the tying run on base.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 23 2015 07:25 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: *shrugs* If Beltran made that catch i guarantee you he would not have been vilified for his AB the way he was. But nobody remembers Endy's AB (against an ailing Jeff Suppan) because of what he did the inning before. What Endy giveth, Endy taketh away. My unsung goat in that game was Valentin. He whiffed with one out and a guy on third I'm pretty sure.

d'Kong76 Oct 23 2015 07:27 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Crow drumsticks are delish, but you have to eat like two hundred of them and then you're hungry in an hour.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 07:29 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: My unsung goat in that game was Valentin. He whiffed with one out and a guy on third I'm pretty sure. Yeah, him too. And he his bat went cold as soon as he clinched the playoff berth.

Centerfield Oct 23 2015 07:40 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: *shrugs* If Beltran made that catch i guarantee you he would not have been vilified for his AB the way he was. But nobody remembers Endy's AB (against an ailing Jeff Suppan) because of what he did the inning before. What Endy giveth, Endy taketh away. My unsung goat in that game was Valentin. He whiffed with one out and a guy on third I'm pretty sure. Exactamundo. If Valentin gives the Mets the lead there we win that game. Far too much is made of the Beltran at-bat. That was the game right there.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 07:46 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Centerfield wrote: Far too much is made of the Beltran at-bat. That was the game right there. Beltran had the misfortune of receiving three unhittable pitches from a future 2-time CYA runner-up. Fastball inside corner, curve inside corner, curve from hell. There wasn't a hitter in the league who would have put the ball in play from those pitches. My issue with Endy (like Valentin) is that he was blackhole during the entire playoffs. And saving two runs does not make up for it anyway. Ironically enough, it was the Cardinal 6-7 hitters who killed us in that series (as well the Human Rain Delay)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 23 2015 07:52 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Centerfield wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: *shrugs* If Beltran made that catch i guarantee you he would not have been vilified for his AB the way he was. But nobody remembers Endy's AB (against an ailing Jeff Suppan) because of what he did the inning before. What Endy giveth, Endy taketh away. My unsung goat in that game was Valentin. He whiffed with one out and a guy on third I'm pretty sure. Exactamundo. If Valentin gives the Mets the lead there we win that game. Far too much is made of the Beltran at-bat. That was the game right there. Valentin whiffed with the bases LOADED in the sixth. But he DID get the bottom-of-the-ninth rally started, IIRC. Cliff's K in the ninth-- two on, no out-- was the dagger, really.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 07:56 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Gwreck wrote: Chavez also singled in the 9th to put the tying run on base. Valentin also singled in the 9th, ftr.

Centerfield Oct 23 2015 07:56 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Getting back to the original topic: Terry Collins No crow for me here. I have always liked Collins. I have never understood the sentiment that he is just a placeholder. And I certainly didn't understand the clamoring for Wally Backman. The only mistake I can remember Collins making was failing to throw a fit in Game 2 of the NLDS. I love that he was out there arguing the ivy play. Hopefully he's learned his lesson. Maybe I like him because I'm comparing him to Willie and Jerry before him? And Art Fucking Howe? I don't know, but I like Collins. I get a pass here. Sandy Alderson Big heaping pile of crow for me on this one. I was ecstatic when they hired Sandy. I was so frustrated that we had Minaya, a really nice guy and an excellent scout, but a guy who seemed not all that bright. It felt like we were being run by a C student. When Sandy came, I was thrilled that we finally had the smartest guy in the room. But last winter left me disappointed. We had built to that point and had a chance to go for it, and Alderson played it like Safe Sandy Small Balls. The offense sucked and I had little faith Sandy could fix it. But then in July, Sandy went big. He turned into Spectacular Sandy Big Balls. Plus that story about Jeff Wilpon saying "Go for it". Wow. There isn't enough crow to be eaten here. The Mets of May and June No crow to be eaten here. The Mets of May and June sucked. If we ran those teams out in August and September, we'd be in full off-season mode. A few more to round out this list... Curtis Granderson Open mouth. Insert crow. Michael Cuddyer Still sucks.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 23 2015 08:07 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I'm sorry, Terry, for not realizing the mensch under the slightly-befuddled, slightly-irascible patina. And, yeah, since his left-field travails, I've always thought of Murph as Good Bench Guy/Starter on a Bad Team material, even in good years like this one. Looking at that Fangraphs article, and then at actual stat-y evidence of stuff like his shrinking K-rate and changed approach... I kinda want to offer him more than a QO.

Gwreck Oct 23 2015 08:26 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Centerfield wrote: Sandy Alderson Big heaping pile of crow for me on this one. I was ecstatic when they hired Sandy. I was so frustrated that we had Minaya, a really nice guy and an excellent scout, but a guy who seemed not all that bright. It felt like we were being run by a C student. When Sandy came, I was thrilled that we finally had the smartest guy in the room. But last winter left me disappointed. We had built to that point and had a chance to go for it, and Alderson played it like Safe Sandy Small Balls. The offense sucked and I had little faith Sandy could fix it. But then in July, Sandy went big. He turned into Spectacular Sandy Big Balls. Plus that story about Jeff Wilpon saying "Go for it". Wow. There isn't enough crow to be eaten here. Very well said. I am happy to take a serving of this crow as well.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 23 2015 08:27 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I've always been on Team Sandy. Team Terry, not so much.

G-Fafif Oct 23 2015 08:37 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Re: 2006 -- as of Wednesday night, the outcome of Game Seven bothers me a LOT less. Honestly, even as 2015 got better and better, I still didn't think I was enjoying it as much as 2006, which will always be the one that got away to me. Though they weren't quite so proximate, it was the same feeling I had about deep-down loving 1985 ever so slightly more than 1986 and 1999 marginally more than 2000 (marginally as opposed to significantly only because of finally winning the pennant). The passion burned deeper in the years they came close as opposed to the years that reaped greater reward. Through the regular season and Division Series, I would have still taken 2006 over 2015. I loved how the '06 team owned its division essentially wire to wire. I loved the cast of characters. I loved the sense that they were going all the way. There's been a change in the standings, though, and I don't think it's the moment talking. I really love this bunch of Mets, not just for what they've accomplished, but how they've accomplished it. I saw the phrase after Game Three, "they outclassed the Cubs," and it really struck me. There's something about this team that just makes you proud, including the way they never let the way you might have underestimated or mischaracterized them slow them down.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 23 2015 08:46 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I loved the 2006 Mets too, but I like this team better. And I think that I came to that realization at the conclusion of the Dodgers series. The most joyous moments I've had concerning the Mets, post 1986: [list:2dk8ncc3]That passed ball by Brad Clontz Todd Pratt's series-winning walkoff homer against Arizona 2000 NLDS Game 2: Mets come back after J.T. Snow's homer; John Franco strikes out Barry Bonds. 2000 NLDS Game 3: Benny Agbayani's walkoff September 2001: Mike Piazza homers in the first game after the terrorist attacks. 2012: Johan Santana's no-hitter, which meant more to me than I would have imagined it would. Mets winning Game 5 of the 2015 NLDS. [/list:u:2dk8ncc3]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 23 2015 08:51 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

It makes sense that your emotional standings are so volatile at this point, G-Fafif-- between the midseason additions, un-disabling of d'Arnaud and Wright and Matz, and the next-level-Power-Ups for Murph and deGrom, we're only about three months into getting to know this particular team, really. Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've always been on Team Sandy. Team Terry, not so much. [Nods vigorously] [Without saying anything, owing to the mouth full of crow-body-cavity]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 23 2015 09:04 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I've said this before but the '06 team was way too artificial for my tastes, and if anything they underperformed. They weren't managed well or built solidly enough -- a single injury to a relief pitcher basically collapsed the whole organization, and despite that they coasted way too much. That they would morph into the '07, '08 and '09 Mets makes me dislike them more as time goes on. Fooey to the Fake Dynasty '06 Mets

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 09:09 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Billy still <3's you, bro.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 23 2015 09:13 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I thought the Mets were baseball's best in '06. They had, easily the best 3-4-5 in baseball, and that's a lot. Four of their first five hitters had MVP caliber seasons and the other guy (Lo Duca) was only an all-star, in the midst of what was probably his career year. That they were mismanaged --- well you know where I stand on that one. They had some flaws, but every team does. You play those three seasons over (06-08), Monte Carlo computer style, and it's not so far-fetched for the Mets to win the pennant three straight years on some of those rolls.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 09:24 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering.

Ceetar Oct 23 2015 09:35 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering. I don't really think the '06 team was particularly mismanaged. It was those injuries that really did them in, and the timing of them. The timing of Wagner's blown saves (did it come out that he was hurting afterwards? I forget). Hell, if Perez wasn't a throw in in the deadline trade, do they have to go back to Trachsel for game 7? Alay Soler? Mike Pelfrey?

Rotblatt Oct 23 2015 10:01 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

[list:kltn1fe8]I thought the Mets would hover around .500 all season. I thought that getting Cespedes was just to appease the fan base, and that it wouldn't substantially help. I might have been right on the first front (but I doubt it), and way, way off base on the second. I thought Terry Collins was irrelevant at best, but he's made some bold moves with the Mets, and not only have they paid off, but they've also been pretty damn clever. [/list:u:kltn1fe8]

Centerfield Oct 23 2015 10:15 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Ceetar wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering. I don't really think the '06 team was particularly mismanaged. It was those injuries that really did them in, and the timing of them. The timing of Wagner's blown saves (did it come out that he was hurting afterwards? I forget). Hell, if Perez wasn't a throw in in the deadline trade, do they have to go back to Trachsel for game 7? Alay Soler? Mike Pelfrey? That team had no pitching. Even if Pedro and Hernandez were healthy enough to pitch they weren't difference makers at that point. If that team had any one of deGrom, Harvey or Syndegaard, they win the Cardinals series easily and win the WS. I know that the pitching was pretty solid in Game 7, but in a do or die game, anything can happen. I get that Valentin got a hit in the 9th, but if the Mets had the lead, Wagner pitches the 9th instead of Heilman. But who knows. Maybe Billy fucking blows it.

El Segundo Escupidor Oct 23 2015 10:29 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow Edited 6 time(s), most recently on Oct 23 2015 10:51 AM

Are you trying to say the Cardinals had a better rotation? Because the match-ups in the NLCS would have been something like this: Glavine vs Weaver Actual result: (W) El Duque vs Carpenter (L) Maine vs Suppan (L) Pedro vs Anthony Reyes (W) As others have pointed out, the Mets lost the ascendancy after Game 3 to one the worst pitching performances in playoff history. They only needed to win one of the two losses and it would been all over.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 23 2015 10:40 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

A message to everyone arguing about who the goats of 2006 were: [youtube:2xir625y]jKGjOE_7bYI[/youtube:2xir625y]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 23 2015 10:43 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

The return of the Rottweiler is a happy occasion for sure.

themetfairy Oct 23 2015 10:44 AM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I'll join the Granderson Crow Buffet.

Frayed Knot Oct 23 2015 12:46 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 23 2015 02:15 PM

Rotblatt wrote: I thought that getting Cespedes was just to appease the fan base, and that it wouldn't substantially help. I might have been right on the first front (but I doubt it), and way, way off base on the second. First of all, welcome back guy. But secondly ... I don't get the above complaint. I mean it's certainly OK to question whether the outcome was going to make enough of a difference. But this was a team that was sitting just 2 games out of 1st place at the time of the deal and was never more than 4.5 games out at any point in the season so there's certainly enough evidence to suggest that this deal -- particularly since it was one of Four made at or near the deadline (Cespedes, Uribe, Johnson & Clippard) -- was made with purpose in mind rather then subterfuge. And while I get that this team's higher-ups haven't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt over the last numbers of years, I think we have to assume at this point that Sandy has enough autonomy to not be browbeaten into making trades where future pieces are given up simply to 'appease' fans - particularly since by 'appease' I assume you really mean 'fool', as if that's going to do any side any good in this whole deal.

cooby Oct 23 2015 01:54 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Gotta admit it, when this all started I said to my husband I hope the Pirates get through their playoff because I don't know if the Mets have it in them to get far. That was before Murphy's rise to god-dom, of course.

metirish Oct 23 2015 01:58 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

I like Terry and am glad he's in the WS and that it turns out he wasn't a placeholder.......but nuts for nothing according to Twitter(me included) no manager can manage at all......

soupcan Oct 23 2015 02:28 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

No crow for me thanks. Unless hating ownership and doubting their intentions and being certain they were lying to the fan base is/was wrong. i may have not been all in all season but from early on I was fairly content. Of course my expectations were pretty low as well. So there's that.

HahnSolo Oct 23 2015 03:23 PM Re: This Crow Tastes Like Crow

Terry. I think I said that the Mets better hope they don't get good while he was still here, because he'd screw it up. But there's no one I was happier for in the celebration the other night.