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Who Will DH?

bmfc1 Oct 24 2015 10:21 AM

The Royals 4 starters are right-handers. Does Cuddyer DH? Kelly Johnson? Does Lagares go to CF, Yo to LF, and Conforto to DH?

TransMonk Oct 24 2015 10:44 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Pending the knowledge on actual match ups based on announced starting pitching, I would think we would see Conforto in left with Johnson DHing in Game 1.

Ceetar Oct 24 2015 10:44 AM Re: Who Will DH?

probably Cuddyer, but maybe Uribe?

Gwreck Oct 24 2015 11:51 AM Re: Who Will DH?

TransMonk wrote: Pending the knowledge on actual match ups based on announced starting pitching, I would think we would see Conforto in left with Johnson DHing in Game 1. Exactly what I would do.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2015 12:35 PM Re: Who Will DH?

We may see a game or so with Conforto DH-ing and Laggy in center. He's hot!

Lefty Specialist Oct 24 2015 12:39 PM Re: Who Will DH?

They're so righty-heavy that I'm guessing Kirk Nieuwenhuis gets more AB's than Coach Cuddy.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 24 2015 09:04 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Let's go with Cuddyer, because it's sporting to go into a fight with one arm tied behind your back.

Edgy MD Oct 25 2015 01:51 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Cuddy isn't sucky! If I have to put it on a bumper sticker, I will!

Ashie62 Oct 25 2015 03:48 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Sign Dave Kingman.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 25 2015 06:09 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy MD wrote: Cuddy isn't sucky! If I have to put it on a bumper sticker, I will! I have no idea why Willets is so consistently down on Cuddyer. While it's true that he hasn't been as good as the Mets had hoped, and that he hasn't played up to his salary, he's certainly been a contributor.

Ashie62 Oct 25 2015 07:29 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Cause he lost his job to a AA guy?

Edgy MD Oct 25 2015 07:39 PM Re: Who Will DH?

That's about as weird a statement as there is. Just about all of them AA guys, until they're not. Bryce Harper was a AA guy. Wasn't as good down there as Conforto was, though. Everybody gets outplayed by somebody, and that's a good thing if you're a fan. It's bad logic to insinuate that somebody sucks because somebody else is better. He was/is here to play his best until Conforto or Nimmo or somebody pushed him aside. It was a two-year deal for a reason. He's contributed. God willing, he'll contribute again. There's every chance he will.

Vic Sage Oct 26 2015 08:23 AM Re: Who Will DH?

i think it'll be K.J. primarily, maybe Nieuwenheis. Cuddyer may be limited to PHing against Danny Duffy and Franklin Morales. Or Collins could go for D and start Lagares in CF, and DH Conforto.

HahnSolo Oct 26 2015 08:28 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Vic Sage wrote: Or Collins could go for D and start Lagares in CF, and DH Conforto. I'm down with this. I think Conforto has looked a bit uncomfortable in the OF this postseason.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 26 2015 09:18 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Because it seems like everytime Cuddyer comes to bat he pops up or hits a weak grounder on the first pitch. He's an easy out. Even when Duda was slumping he'd at least make the pitcher work a little bit. Who bats after Cuddyer? The other team!

Benjamin Grimm Oct 26 2015 09:36 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Well, there's what seems, and what actually is. He undeniably had a bad September, but in July and August he was a valuable role player: [list:1655ef1k]July, 10 games: .310/.355/.510 August, 17 games: .375/.423/.583[/list:u:1655ef1k]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2015 11:25 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Vic Sage wrote: Or Collins could go for D and start Lagares in CF, and DH Conforto. This. As strong an outfield defense as possible, given the Royals' propensity for contact/relative unwillingness to take walks. I have a feeling we're headed for more close-and-late action in all of these.

Centerfield Oct 26 2015 11:47 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, there's what seems, and what actually is. He undeniably had a bad September, but in July and August he was a valuable role player: [list]July, 10 games: .310/.355/.510 August, 17 games: .375/.423/.583[/list:u] Sure. But what were his numbers in April, May, June, September and October? (Don't bother to look, they are not good.) He had a good stretch in July and August, but he's not been good otherwise. He has a .699 OPS for the season. That is terrible for a corner outfielder. And it is about 125 to 150 points lower than I was hoping for when we signed him. He is extremely lucky that the two balls he misplayed in Game 1 of the NLDS never came back to bite them. Michael Cuddyer Sucks. And because he sucks, there is absolutely, positively no way he does anything good during the World Series. Now way he gets a big hit late to win a game. Mark this down. You can take this to the bank.

Edgy MD Oct 26 2015 11:50 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Well, he acknowledged September. October is scarcely relevant, as small sample as it is. At this point he's not a corner outfielder, but a reserve. And not sucky. You will sing of him before all is said and done. Why not sing now?

Centerfield Oct 26 2015 12:00 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy MD wrote: Well, he acknowledged September. October is scarcely relevant, as small sample as it is. At this point he's not a corner outfielder, but a reserve. And not sucky. You will sing of him before all is said and done. Why not sing now? Wait. Not sucky for a corner outfielder? Or not sucky as a reserve? He certainly sucked as a corner outfielder. Which is why he is now a reserve. And I (or WP) can justifiably criticize him since he was signed to be a good, run producing (starting) corner outfielder. I'm glad you have confidence that he will do something good. I am saying unequivocally that there is no chance in the world he will get a big hit in the World Series. None. Zero. Michael Cuddyer sucks.

Ceetar Oct 26 2015 12:04 PM Re: Who Will DH?

.287/.330/.425 for a 112 wRC+ since his DL stint. If you buy that a lot of his problem was his knee injury (and he reportedly was hurting more and more as a game went on, and his numbers heavily reflected this) then he's basically Michael Cuddyer, career 12% better than average guy. Or you know, slightly better than Daniel Murphy guy. He's a better hitter than Juan Lagares. He might be better in the platoon split than Granderson and is at least a safer bet than Conforto in that regard. He's almost definitely better than Uribe, Plawecki and Johnson.

Edgy MD Oct 26 2015 12:07 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Centerfield wrote: Michael Cuddyer sucks. Your track record in these declarations is less than strong.

Centerfield Oct 26 2015 12:09 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: Michael Cuddyer sucks. Your track record in these declarations is less than strong. Yet surprisingly consistent. Like I said. Michael Cuddyer sucks. There is no chance he will get any big hits in the World Series.

seawolf17 Oct 26 2015 12:12 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Cuddy was 6-19 as a pinch-hitter this year. That's something. But no, I don't know that I want him getting too many ABs in the Series.

Centerfield Oct 26 2015 12:12 PM Re: Who Will DH?

Ceetar wrote: .287/.330/.425 for a 112 wRC+ since his DL stint. If you buy that a lot of his problem was his knee injury (and he reportedly was hurting more and more as a game went on, and his numbers heavily reflected this) then he's basically Michael Cuddyer, career 12% better than average guy. Or you know, slightly better than Daniel Murphy guy. He's a better hitter than Juan Lagares. He might be better in the platoon split than Granderson and is at least a safer bet than Conforto in that regard. He's almost definitely better than Uribe, Plawecki and Johnson. Plawecki yes, but Uribe and Johnson? Both had OPS's in the mid 700's. (Johnson .750, Uribe .737). I'd go with either of those guys over MC at this point (so long as Uribe is healthy). I agree about a Granderson/Cuddyer platoon. I think that is probably the way to go for RF in 2016. But there's no way I'd play him in the field during this WS. It's probably his injury but he's looking bad out there.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2015 12:34 PM Re: Who Will DH? Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Oct 26 2015 01:01 PM

Centerfield wrote: Ceetar wrote: .287/.330/.425 for a 112 wRC+ since his DL stint. If you buy that a lot of his problem was his knee injury (and he reportedly was hurting more and more as a game went on, and his numbers heavily reflected this) then he's basically Michael Cuddyer, career 12% better than average guy. Or you know, slightly better than Daniel Murphy guy. He's a better hitter than Juan Lagares. He might be better in the platoon split than Granderson and is at least a safer bet than Conforto in that regard. He's almost definitely better than Uribe, Plawecki and Johnson. Plawecki yes, but Uribe and Johnson? Both had OPS's in the mid 700's. (Johnson .750, Uribe .737). I'd go with either of those guys over MC at this point (so long as Uribe is healthy). You'd likely be wrong to do so. Those late-season/post-DL numbers of Coach Cuddy's are pretty much right in line with his career averages, and though he may be a shitshow in the field, he's still good-to-great with the bat, the occasional terrible-looking approach aside. Not to mention that his career numbers against righties (.272/.329/.447, 7.1% BB rate/18.6% K rate) compare VERY favorably to our nominal righty-killers' equivalent numbers (.244/.330/.421, 11% BB rate/22.1% K rate for Johnson; .245/.314/.423, 8.8% BB rate/30.5% K rate for Nieuwenhuis). So... not strictly a platoon DH, either.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 26 2015 12:35 PM Re: Who Will DH?

I think he failed to be an adequate choice as a starting outfielder. I think he's a better-than-average right-handed bench player.

Vic Sage Oct 26 2015 03:37 PM Re: Who Will DH?

i'm with CF... as long as he and i consistently declare that "Cuddyer Sucks" as often as we did Granderson, we're bound to get something useful out of him.

Edgy MD Oct 26 2015 03:54 PM Re: Who Will DH?

The Boobird's Failsafe returns.

Centerfield Oct 27 2015 08:44 AM Re: Who Will DH?

The Boobird's Failsafe returns. You've used this phrase before. I'm not sure what this means, but I suspect it's meant to undermine my points about Granderson and Cuddyer. And now I feel constrained to reply. I was happy to eat crow in the other thread because, although it was not the point of the "Sucks" thread, I didn't think that Granderson was going to improve. But he did. A lot. And so, for that reason, I'm happy to to be wrong. But don't take that to mean that somehow my original post was wrong (or that you were correct). On the day I posted the Granderson thread, my points were: 1. Granderson sucks (as of May 6, .690 OPS). 2. Granderson sucked last year too. (.714 OPS) 3. He makes a lot of money. ($16 million) 4. Because he sucks and makes a lot of money, this hurts the team. 5. Despite hurting the team for a year plus, he gets very little criticism. All of those points were and are still, correct. The main arguments offered against my thesis by you and others were (as I interpreted them) as follows: 1. He doesn't suck. He has a good OBP True. He had a good OBP of .364. He also had a slugging PCT of .326. Which means overall he sucked. Shaun Marcum had a great strikeout to walk ratio. But overall ended up 1-10 with an ERA over 5. Suck. 2. I don't care about Granderson. I care about the aggregate of the team. This is just idiotic thinking. And doesn't really contest the fact that Granderson sucked. 3. You can still win with average guys on your team. True. But you would hope highly paid corner OF'ers would not be the "average guys" the other players have to carry. 4. I don't think you should release Granderson. Agreed. Never condoned releasing him. Condoned criticizing him. None of these arguments successfully challenged any of my above points. Curtis Granderson played poorly, and warranted criticism. Then an amazing thing happened. Granderson turned it around and had an OPS over .840 the rest of the way, resulting in a final OPS of .821. Suddenly, Curtis Granderson was great, even carrying the team at times. And though there were lots of reasons for the Mets turnaround, Granderson was right in the middle of things. I suspect that it is your belief that this turnaround undermines my original point. It does not. Granderson with a .690 OPS sucks and hurts the team. Granderson with an .840 OPS is great and helps the team. Now, to address your phrase. You say "Failsafe", with the implication that I say things in a way where I can never be proven wrong. I absolutely agree with this. And the reason this is true is my point was not a prediction. It was a statement of, what I believed to be, very obvious facts. You, and others, chose to contest those facts. Why? I'm not sure. Again, to me, this all seemed very obvious. But that is your right. Your prerogative. But it is very hard to argue against statements of fact backed up by the appropriate numbers. And one should expect resistance when one contests those facts with selective data and ancillary points. And finally, you say "Boobird". And the only intent I can read into this is to apply judgment to my way of thinking. We seldom disagree when I have positive things to say about the team or a player. The arguments we have are when I am critical. That's fine. I understand we have different philosophies on what it means to be a fan. You seem to be more supportive and positive. I like to believe I am more even handed (positive when warranted, negative when warranted). But some may say I lean more to critical. That's fine. The difference here is I don't feel the need to undermine your philosophy with, simply-stated, name calling. I can sit here and say "The Clueless Optimists' Failsafe" or something of the like. But there is no point in doing so. When resorting to name-calling or altering another's point, to further your interests, you are likely on the losing end of the argument.

Ceetar Oct 27 2015 08:56 AM Re: Who Will DH?

you forgot 5. Small Sample Size as a caveat to the OBP point that represented a likely improvement.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 08:59 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Boobird's Failsafe: "If a player is booed, and then fails, the ire of fans is shown to be justified. If the player is booed, and then excels, then the ire of fans is again shown to have been justified, because the ire and the fear of ire is what motivates him." You don't find anything self-serving in Vic's post? His tone seems to suggest he's fully aware of the absurdity of in the reasoning. He knowingly leaves himself wide open and seems to take joy in it. I don't call anybody "clueless," but I do disagree with it. And I do and did disagree that Curtis Granderson sucks. And that Michael Cuddyer sucks. I'm not sure we need or needed to return to Granderson, though.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 27 2015 09:09 AM Re: Who Will DH?

I don't think that Vic was saying that he and CF booed Granderson into being a better player. I think he was just playfully saying that they did something of a reverse jinx. Vic Sage wrote: i'm with CF... as long as he and i consistently declare that "Cuddyer Sucks" as often as we did Granderson, we're bound to get something useful out of him.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 09:12 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Yes I tried to suggest as much. You don't find anything self-serving in Vic's post? His tone seems to suggest he's fully aware of the absurdity of in the reasoning. He knowingly leaves himself wide open and seems to take joy in it.

d'Kong76 Oct 27 2015 09:21 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy MD wrote: I don't call anybody "clueless," but I do disagree with it. And I do and did disagree that Curtis Granderson sucks. And that Michael Cuddyer sucks. I'm not sure we need or needed to return to Granderson, though. Cuddyer has a bad WS and I'll be starting the Cuddyer Sucks thread faster than Ripken on asshole eatin'...

Centerfield Oct 27 2015 09:26 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Boobird's Failsafe: "If a player is booed, and then fails, the ire of fans is shown to be justified. If the player is booed, and then excels, then the ire of fans is again shown to have been justified, because the ire and the fear of ire is what motivates him." You don't find anything self-serving in Vic's post? His tone seems to suggest he's fully aware of the absurdity of in the reasoning. He knowingly leaves himself wide open and seems to take joy in it. I don't call anybody "clueless," but I do disagree with it. And I do and did disagree that Curtis Granderson sucks. And that Michael Cuddyer sucks. I'm not sure we need or needed to return to Granderson, though. Let's start with the distinction between booing and criticizing. Booing a player, who is trying his best, at the game where he can hear it, is different than being critical of a player on a fan forum, designed with the intent to discuss said player (and his teammates). There is also a difference between a fan who is critical of a player, then acknowledges and praises that the player when he turns it around, and the fan that boos a player, then takes credit when the player turns it around. Your post is an attempt to lump me in with self-serving boobirds. That that is my objection. I think it is fairly clear that both Vic and I are joking on the Cuddyer "absolutely no chance to do well" stuff.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 10:47 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Well, for someone who is joking, you take defending your position dead seriously. "Boobird" = not a particularly serious appellation itself. But whether you are booing a guy directly or ripping him online, the logic is the same. You cannot be proven wrong no matter how the evidence breaks. That sort of logic doesn't sit well with me, and I try and respond to it when it is presented, and respond in the same vein: lightly if it's delivered lightly, seriously if it's delivered seriously. But as you go from joking to serious, depending on how vulnerable your arguments are, it's hard to gauge. Here you are defending your position point-by-intricate point but then saying it's not serious. I'm not sure then how to respond at all. I'll just say I disagree.

Centerfield Oct 27 2015 11:06 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Allow me to clarify then. Where I am joking: When I say Michael Cuddyer has zero chance at doing anything well in the World Series. This is an attempt to play off the "Curtis Granderson Sucks" thread and hope that Cuddyer gets a big hit in the Series. Where I am being serious: Everything else. Back to your points: You cannot be proven wrong no matter how the evidence breaks. That sort of logic doesn't sit well with me, and I try and respond to it when it is presented, and respond in the same vein: lightly if it's delivered lightly, seriously if it's delivered seriously. I don't know why you continue to think that my statement can be proven right or wrong depending on how things break from there. I have tried to illustrate this to you many times. I didn't say whether or not he would continue to suck. I pointed out that for a year plus, Curtis Granderson had sucked. The point you think I made (aka "BooBird's FailSafe) Curtis Granderson sucks! He's not going to get better unless we boo his ass and motivate him!" The point I actually made: Curtis Granderson sucks. No one calls him on it. Discuss But whether you are booing a guy directly or ripping him online, the logic is the same. This is an interesting statement. I don't agree with it, but it's very illustrative of your thinking. You're on record as saying booing a player is wrong. If "the logic is the same", then one can only conclude that ripping a player online is wrong. If that's the case, one can't have an objective discussion with you about baseball. Sometimes players suck. Sometimes criticism is warranted. If it's the same as booing, and booing is wrong, and lends itself to the BooBirds' Failsafe, you are effectively saying no one can have an honest online discussion.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 11:25 AM Re: Who Will DH?

I don't know why we're talking about Curtis Granderson. You were joking. Or you weren't. There's nothing clear about it. You say now you're serious, but you shifted earlier. Very clever of you. Very impossible to refute by anybody. I guess I won't try. I don't know why you're pissed at me. Lunchbucket said your assessment of how the Mets built the team was bullshit.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 11:27 AM Re: Who Will DH?

I don't know why we're talking about Curtis Granderson. You were joking. Or you weren't. There's nothing clear about it. You say now you're serious, but you shifted earlier. Very clever of you. Very impossible to refute by anybody. I guess I won't try. I don't know why you're pissed at me. Lunchbucket said your assessment of how the Mets built the team was bullshit. Centerfield wrote: If "the logic is the same", then one can only conclude that ripping a player online is wrong. No, the logic of If the player is booed, and then excels, then the ire of fans is again shown to have been justified, because the ire and the fear of ire is what motivates him. is the same. Rip all you want. Take it easy.

d'Kong76 Oct 27 2015 11:29 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Dudes!! Game One, 2015 World Series! Mets! Let's Go, and all that jazz!!

Centerfield Oct 27 2015 11:35 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy, We're talking about Granderson because you made reference to the "BooBird's Failsafe". The same comment you made in the Granderson thread. I understand what you are saying about the BooBird's logic. How it's grounded in fallacy. I am trying to get you to see that this was not my point. It really wasn't. I researched Granderson's numbers before posting it. I thought it was a well-thought out point for discussion. I'm not pissed at all. I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I'm reacting to an allegation that my post is grounded in self-serving logic. I don't think it is. I'm sorry to have upset you. Any way, let's forget it. Game 1. Happy time.

Centerfield Oct 27 2015 11:40 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Edgy MD wrote: Lunchbucket said your assessment of how the Mets built the team was bullshit. And I disagree with that. But I'm not mad at him. I don't think he's mad at me.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2015 11:53 AM Re: Who Will DH?

I'm glad for this. Let's wallop some American League arses.

Lefty Specialist Oct 27 2015 12:09 PM Re: Who Will DH?

First pitch can't come soon enough.

Frayed Knot Oct 27 2015 12:10 PM Re: Who Will DH?

We should just forget all about these boo birds you speak of and instead embrace the boo bees. I think we can all agree that we like boo bees, right? So embrace the boo bees as often as possible. I recall that we even had a thread on this topic once.

Vic Sage Oct 27 2015 02:20 PM Re: Who Will DH?

I think it is fairly clear that both Vic and I are joking on the Cuddyer "absolutely no chance to do well" stuff. i guess it was only clear to us. lets go mets.

Vic Sage Oct 28 2015 05:19 AM Re: Who Will DH?

Conforto, with Lagares in CF, for the rest of the series. Enough of this shit.