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Jose Jose No Jose!

themetfairy Nov 10 2015 03:37 AM

Jose Reyes Arrested on Domestic Violence Charges

Zvon Nov 10 2015 04:17 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Jose, say it ain't so.

Edgy MD Nov 10 2015 04:59 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Unless it is, you know? Ugly. Ugly and awful.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 10 2015 02:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Sounds bad.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 10 2015 02:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

His wife told police that Reyes grabbed her by the throat and shoved her into a glass door that led to the balcony in their room at the Four Seasons Resort Maui at Wailea. Not cool at all.

Centerfield Nov 10 2015 02:13 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

That's terrible. You'd think at 40 I'd know enough not to be disappointed when a player I like does something like this. But I guess that part of me never grew up. I hope his wife is ok. For whatever it's worth, I hope that this is just an isolated incident, and we don't later find out about a pattern of abuse (not that this makes it acceptable by any means) and I hope that Jose will learn his lesson from this.

d'Kong76 Nov 10 2015 02:19 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/11/jose-re ... gram-page/

Benjamin Grimm Nov 10 2015 02:21 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Centerfield wrote: You'd think at 40 I'd know enough not to be disappointed when a player I like does something like this. Yup. We tend to think that we know some celebrities far better than we actually do. (See Cosby, William H.) We shouldn't be surprised when we hear news like this, because we only know Jose as a smiling shortstop and really know little to nothing about what he's like in private. But it surprises us anyway, because of that illusion of familiarity.

MFS62 Nov 10 2015 02:26 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Will they trade him to the Dallas Cowboys? Later

d'Kong76 Nov 10 2015 02:52 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

People beatin' on each other is not a springboard for silly humor.

seawolf17 Nov 10 2015 03:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Fuckin' idiot.

MFS62 Nov 10 2015 03:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 wrote: People beatin' on each other is not a springboard for silly humor. Right now, its "suspicion of". If he is found guilty, I will seriously condemn him. Later

Edgy MD Nov 10 2015 04:14 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

The two situations are grave either way.

soupcan Nov 10 2015 04:58 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

This is a shame. Why do I get the feeling that if Jose had just stayed here, all would be well? I know thats probably not true, but I still love that kid.

cooby classic Nov 10 2015 05:07 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

My dad loved him too, so I did. Damn it Jose, why?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 10 2015 07:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Centerfield wrote: That's terrible. You'd think at 40 I'd know enough not to be disappointed when a player I like does something like this. But I guess that part of me never grew up. I hope his wife is ok. Yep. Dammit.

dgwphotography Nov 10 2015 07:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: This is a shame. Why do I get the feeling that if Jose had just stayed here, all would be well? I know thats probably not true, but I still love that kid. I used to feel the same way about Darryl...

Farmer Ted Nov 10 2015 08:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

He is shunned by the Mets. Signs a big contract with a team he really doesn't want to play for. Traded to OH, CANADA! in a typical Marlins salary dump. Traded to the Rockies for Tulo and the Blue Jays season takes off. Rockies go 26-38 to close out the season. Mets get to the WS with Wilmer Flores at SS. I can probably understand the deep-rooted psychological issues at hand with the man, but take it out on a water cooler, Jose. Get some counseling. Damn. Damn. Damn. This really makes me sad.

Edgy MD Nov 11 2015 03:15 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I missed the shunning. He made his own choices.

Farmer Ted Nov 11 2015 01:48 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Shunned. December 5, 2011, NJ.com Reyes, the reigning National League batting champion, agreed to a six-year contract reportedly worth $106 million — a pair of figures the Mets and general manager Sandy Alderson had little interest in matching. With reports of Reyes’ departure buzzing on the eve of the Winter Meetings, Alderson admitted that his club never made a formal offer during this process.

d'Kong76 Nov 11 2015 01:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Farmer Ted wrote: Alderson admitted that his club never made a formal offer during this process. And Bingo was his name-o

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2015 01:55 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

John Harper saying that Reyes should be banned 81 games. We probably need to know more details, but I don't think that's unreasonable.

Zvon Nov 11 2015 08:10 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: John Harper saying that Reyes should be banned 81 games. We probably need to know more details, but I don't think that's unreasonable. Half a season? I'm certainly not going to condone what Reyes did but I think that's excessive. I feel anything over 40 games is excessive in this specific situation.

dgwphotography Nov 11 2015 09:47 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think we should err on the side of excessive for something like this. It is not for us who have not experienced it to say what is excessive when it comes to domestic abuse.

Edgy MD Nov 12 2015 01:06 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Harper's nonetheless getting ahead of things. José Reyes' agent courted suitors. When the Mets approached him, he asked them to name how high they were willing to go. They named it, and formal offer or not, the agent took that number to the Marlins and had them top it. I should be so shunned.

Centerfield Nov 12 2015 02:37 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think Sandy said afterwards that as soon as they had the Marlins offer, the Reyes camp said if you're not going to match or beat it, don't bother. So the Mets didn't. Whether that is what happened or not we may never know. I do remember Reyes saying he felt shunned afterwards. Getting back to the point, I do think MLB should come down hard on Reyes. It's important to be ahead of the curve on this and not look the other way like they did with steroids. Send a message that this won't be tolerated. Maybe 81 games is too severe, but certainly more than 5 or 10. Maybe 25 or 30? What they should not do, is give him a slap on the wrist, wait for footage to come out of the incident, then increase the punishment. NFL: We didn't realize Ray Rice knocked out his fiance in such a violent manner. Now that we see he did not gently punch her unconscious, we are increasing the suspension.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 02:42 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't have a problem with 81 games, if that's what it ends up being. I think each incident has to be evaluated on its own. All domestic abuse is bad, of course, but there should be stronger penalties, I think, for a savage beating than for a single open-handed slap. We don't, of course, know all the details, but if Jose grabbed his wife by the throat, slammed her against a wall, and caused injuries that required her to go to a hospital, I'd say that's fairly severe. Certainly not MOST severe, but I think it's severe enough to warrant 81 games.

Centerfield Nov 12 2015 02:46 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Yeah. I think you're right. And another factor should be if this was an isolated incident or if a pattern of abuse is discovered. It sucks that Jose has to be the poster boy for this. But you know, I guess he deserves it.

seawolf17 Nov 12 2015 02:52 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Centerfield wrote: It sucks that Jose has to be the poster boy for this. But you know, I guess he deserves it. This and this. 81 games is entirely reasonable because fuck that shit.

Nymr83 Nov 12 2015 03:24 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

MLB should throw the book at him (or get Clemens to throw the BAT at him?), give him a full season off, and let an arbitrator reduce it if necessary. this way MLB has taken their stance and the arbitrator can set precedent for these cases going forward, which are thankfully far less frequent than they are in the NFL!

Edgy MD Feb 24 2016 01:16 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Commissioner Robert D. Manfred, Jr. announced today that Colorado Rockies’ shortstop Jose Reyes has been placed on paid leave pending completion of his criminal proceedings in Hawaii, pursuant to Major League Baseball’s Joint Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Policy. Section III.C.2 of the Policy permits the Commissioner to impose a paid suspension pending resolution of the legal proceedings or an investigation. Upon resolution of Reyes’ criminal proceedings and the completion of the Commissioner's Office's investigation into the incident, Commissioner Manfred will make a decision whether to impose discipline on Reyes. The Commissioner's Office will have no further comment on this matter until a final disposition is announced. Trial scheduled for opening day.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2016 12:31 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Aroldis Chapman gets a 30-day suspension for his non-prosecuted alleged roughing up of a girlfriend and shooting off a gun multiple times in a garage. He will NOT appeal the ruling, despite his earlier vow to do so, which leads one to believe that this sentence was reached with all parties involved.

Nymr83 Mar 02 2016 03:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Frayed Knot wrote: Aroldis Chapman gets a 30-day suspension for his non-prosecuted alleged roughing up of a girlfriend and shooting off a gun multiple times in a garage. He will NOT appeal the ruling, despite his earlier vow to do so, which leads one to believe that this sentence was reached with all parties involved. Yeah, this was negotiated because MLB learned from the NFL's experience where the arbitrator reduced suspensions for a wife-beater and a child-abuser. MLB gets their precedent set (30 games for domestic violence when you haven't even been charged with a crime) without anyone being able to overturn it. Chapman gets free agency after this year (the big deal for him despite his agent's big talk was really just making sure he got enough service time in for that) I'd loved to have seen a bigger penalty, but I think this is a reasonable one considering the lack of charges and his agreement not to appeal.

Vic Sage Mar 02 2016 04:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

This still leaves open the possibility (likelihood, really) of a bigger suspension for the next guy if there is undisputed evidence of actual physical abuse (unlike this case) and/or charges are filed.

Nymr83 Mar 02 2016 06:04 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Vic Sage wrote: This still leaves open the possibility (likelihood, really) of a bigger suspension for the next guy if there is undisputed evidence of actual physical abuse (unlike this case) and/or charges are filed. which is win/win I think. good job by MLB here

Frayed Knot Mar 30 2016 10:31 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Citing a "lack of cooperation" from the wife/alleged victim, prosecutors in Maui have dropped the criminal charges against Jose Reyes. Now MLB is free to rule having put off a decision until the legal process played itself out. With Yanx reliever Chapman getting 30 games for an incident which didn't result in charges, you'd have to figure that 30 would be the starting point in this case. On the other hand one could argue that at least there was no gunfire involved in this one.

Ashie62 Mar 30 2016 11:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Sounds like the NFL.

Edgy MD Mar 31 2016 12:22 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

What a terrible catch-22 it puts the wife in. By cooperating, she's undermining her husband's livelihood, and therefore seemingly undermining the interests of herself and her children. Even moreso in the NFL, where a released player gets squat.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 24 2016 09:24 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I was glad to see that the Rockies didn't let arbitration eligibility get in the way of Trevor Story being named the starter at short. What happens when Jose Reyes comes back? Please tell me that his large salary doesn't automatically give him his place back. The Rockies aren't going to send Story down when Reyes comes back, are they? The guy is overpaid and has a bad attitude, not to mention he apparently beats his wife. I know cutting him requires the management group to admit they made a big mistake in bringing him here in the first place. Story has earned a starting spot with his early play. Chris and Nancy: This is a hot topic that I will linger over the Rockies until the Reyes situation is resolved. As you probably know, Reyes will not go to trial in Hawaii on charges of domestic abuse after his wife refused to testify. Major League Baseball, however, can still suspend Reyes under its new domestic violence policy. That decision would come any day now, though I imagine there are still issues to be worked out with the players' association. My guess is that commissioner Rob Manfred will suspend Reyes from between 30-50 games, but that's just a guess. Others believe he'll get an 80-game suspension. OK, now on to your questions. First of all, Story will not be sent down if or when Reyes returns. I think the Rockies are committed to Story as their starting shortstop. He's earned the job and he's having an historic early season. I'm not saying Story will never be sent down to Triple-A. If he falls into a prolonged slump — something that could happen given his youth and proclivity to strike out, he could be optioned to Triple-A. I don't think that's going to happen, and I know that Story won't be bumped for Reyes. Another big question is what the Rockies will do with Reyes once MLB makes its decision. He's owed $48 million over the next two seasons (counting a $4 million buyout after 2017). Would the Rockies actually eat that contract money and simply release Reyes? They just might. Here is what owner Dick Monfort told me last week. I asked him: Will the public relations aspect to the Reyes decision and the fans reaction to it play a part in what you do with him? Monfort replied: "I'd like to know exactly what exactly happened. It's easy for us all to speculate on whatever happened. But until we really know, it's hard. You're dealing with a guy's life, too. But if he did something wrong, he should pay for it." Monfort wants to be fair to Reyes and respect his legal rights, but this is a major quandary for the Rockies and MLB. There is a public relations angle at work here. Here is what I think could happen: • Reyes will be suspended for 30-50 games and will subsequently lose money for each game he misses. • I do not think the Rockies will be able to trade Reyes to another team, because of his high salary and his current, controversial situation. • The Rockies will sit tight while Reyes serves his suspension, then they will release him, thus saving some of the money originally owed him, but still having to eat the remainder of his contract. In other words, I don't see Reyes playing for the Rockies again. This is only my prediction of what could happen. There could be legal ramifications of which I am not aware. Plus, we really don't know what happened in that hotel room in Hawaii. This I know, Story is the starting shortstop for now and for the future. Rockies Mailbag

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2016 06:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

ESPN.com wrote: The Colorado Rockies designated embattled shortstop Jose Reyes for assignment on Wednesday. Before making the move, the Rockies reinstated Reyes from the restricted list, where he had been since being suspended under the league's domestic violence policy. The Rockies now have 10 days to either trade him, release him or have him accept a demotion to the minors.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2016 06:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Mmmmm, that's a nice $40 million lunch [approx $16 for the remainder of this season + $22 in '17 + $4 in buyout] And this insures that the six year deal he signed with the Marlins will be split among at least four organizations.

RealityChuck Jun 15 2016 07:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

There even suggestions that the Mets sign him, which gets 100 on the "Hell, no" scale.

TransMonk Jun 15 2016 08:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

If he's released, can't he sign with any team for a minimal amount (obviously triggering a void of his previous contract in the process)? I'm not sure what the chances are of him getting released, but I'd let Reyes play third for the vet minimum if Wright is out the remainder of the year. What is there to lose? I'd bet Jose would love to play in NYC again.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2016 08:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

If he's claimed on waivers, the claiming team is responsible for his salary. (I don't see that happening.) But if he's released, the Rockies are on the hook and the team that signs him only has to pay the major-league minimum salary.

TransMonk Jun 15 2016 08:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But if he's released, the Rockies are on the hook and the team that signs him only has to pay the major-league minimum salary. That's what I was thinking. I'd be fine with trying him out in that scenario. He'd have as much speed as anyone else on the team and has the potential to get on base...two things the Mets lack even at full strength. If he flops, he didn't cost any prospects and a minimal amount of cash.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2016 08:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

The other alternative is a trade. Not sure who thinks they're a SS/IF away from competing right now but, if there is one, they might agree to send a warm body in exchange for the Rox picking up merely most of the money. Of course you know the Rox already explored trade possibilities and wound up DFA'ing him anyway, although the prospect that he'll soon be on the open market could kick some team's butt towards the idea of a trade rather than letting him hit the open market. The problem with picking him up as Wright insurance is that every AB he gets at 3B is one that Flores doesn't get and at some point the Mets need to find out what we've got in this enigma known as Wilmer. The recent pick-up of Kelly Johnson argues against this also. Perhaps a bit ironically is that the only need we'd have for him would be as a replacement for the only IF who hasn't been hurt this season. oe: Jose's .310 OBA in 2015 doesn't argue strongly for his getting on base skills these days

Edgy MD Jun 15 2016 09:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Unless they work real hard to hammer out a meaningful joint statement up front, one thing they'd have to lose is credibility as an organization that won't tolerate domestic assault.

Ceetar Jun 15 2016 09:19 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Unless they work real hard to hammer out a meaningful joint statement up front, one thing they'd have to lose is credibility as an organization that won't tolerate domestic assault. yes, meaningful joint statements fix everything.

Edgy MD Jun 16 2016 12:21 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I didn't write that, so I ask you... again... to please spare me the smug responses.

Nymr83 Jun 16 2016 02:11 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

i prefer they takea stand and say NO to wife-beaters, i dont care what he costs.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2016 01:56 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Adam Rubin says the Mets are "softening" on bringing back Reyes. A source told ESPN.com that the Mets are at least considering bringing back Reyes, presumably once he becomes a free agent, and the organization would be responsible only for a prorated portion of the MLB minimum salary. But he probably wouldn't play shortstop: Asdrubal Cabrera is clicking at shortstop for the Mets, so Reyes likely would need to forgo his customary position (and possibly move to third base). If he played second base, that would require Neil Walker moving to third base.

seawolf17 Jun 21 2016 01:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I have fond memories of watching Jose whack triples into the gap and race around the bases, but no thanks.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 21 2016 02:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Other than as a utility guy, I can't see a scenario where Reyes makes sense. And I don't think he's versatile enough to be a utility player.

Edgy MD Jun 21 2016 02:51 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Well, thar be some weaknesses he potentially offsets on offense. He's a contact hitter where the Mets have a surfeit (an embarrassing surfeit) of swing-and-miss guys. He may be a shadow of the base-stealer and baserunner he was, but he'd instantly become the most effective and threatening guy on the bases if he was to put on a Mets uniform. He can bunt, and hit and run, and use the whole field, which are also tools the Mets lack. He also brings whatever he brings to the morale, which is something I'm not quite sure of, but Terry seems optimistic about it, so I thought I'd mention that even though my faith is wavering. His position would be I-dunno. His on-base percentage would be a concern day-in and day-out. His potential to be a PR embarrassment and a slap in the face to women and all who love them is certainly a real concern. I guess one best-case scenario would be Shawon Dunston '99, but he'd have to be down with being a multi-position player. And while child-like joy is contagious, so is child-like sulking and self-pity and self-centeredness. I'm punting to you, Sandy!

d'Kong76 Jun 21 2016 02:56 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'll take a shot of Dilson, please.

Lefty Specialist Jun 21 2016 06:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 wrote: I'll take a shot of Dilson, please. Yeah, I'd prefer this to Reyes. But Jeffy-boy (I actually heard him speak!) seems to be leaning toward getting him. He'd have to play third because you're not going to play two people out of position. I have no idea how well he'd do over there (and neither does anyone else). Even his vastly-diminished tools play better than most of the roster right now, which is kind of scary.

jerseyshore Jun 22 2016 03:56 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

seemed like a good thread to recall days that have long since passed. Reyes is not the only dinosaur in this thread. That being said, who do you want coming off the bench...Ty Kelly or Jose Reyes (before you answer, consider that it may actually be Reyes who is cheaper)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 22 2016 04:38 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Well, that be some weaknesses he potentially offsets on offense. He's a contact hitter where the Mets have a surfeit (an embarrassing surfeit) of swing-and-miss guys. He may be a shadow of the base-stealer and baserunner he was, but he'd instantly become the most effective and threatening guy on the bases if he was to put on a Mets uniform. He can bunt, and hit and run, and use the whole field, which are also tools the Mets lack. He also brings whatever he brings to the morale, which is something I'm not quite sure of, but Terry seems optimistic about it, so I thought I'd mention that even though my faith is wavering. His position would be I-dunno. His on-base percentage would be a concern day-in and day-out. His potential to be a PR embarrassment and a slap in the face to women and all who love them is certainly a real concern. I guess one best-case scenario would be Shawon Dunston '99, but he'd have to be down with being a multi-position player. And while child-like joy is contagious, so is child-like sulking and self-pity and self-centeredness. I'm punting to you, Sandy! i like this argument .much relies on josejosejose's attitude but you wonder if he's gonna come back, maybe itshoud be here.

Fman99 Jun 22 2016 11:32 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Certainly, the good will built up over his initial years, built up by playing good baseball for the good guys, is something he doesn't really have anywhere else, considering his domestic incident. Assuming he clears waivers and you can get him for a song, I say, hell yes, go get him. Some rag now saying he's "desperate" to return to the Mets.

cooby Jun 22 2016 11:37 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Please reread page one everyone

Lefty Specialist Jun 22 2016 12:04 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

cooby wrote: Please reread page one everyone Yeah, it's good to get some perspective.

cooby Jun 22 2016 12:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't think I could ever feel the same about him.

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2016 12:18 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Most people think about abandoning the pool to go to the Jersey Shore for summer solstice. Here at Crane Central, Jersey Shore suddenly shows up at the 'Pool on the summer solstice. Like Gary was saying last night, not really sure what kind of role Jose plays if they sign him or how good he'll even be when they use him however they wind up using him.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 22 2016 12:55 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

It seems like the kind of things that teams that are out of it do to put some fannies in the seats.

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 01:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think Reyes should play again, I don't think he should be barred from the game. He's definitely better than some of the guys on the roster, positional adjustments aside. but.. he's not good enough to override the baggage in my eyes. I generally don't think teams should consider off-field/off-season stuff very highly, but it's too much here. It's too much for him to basically succeed off it. (he'd be wallowing away on the Rockies otherwise, not possibly joining a contender) It's too much given Wilpon's history. But more so, i think it might be too important off the field. If he comes back, he'll get more cheers than when he came back as a Marlin. The incident will be forgotten. People who point out he's still an abuser will be mostly ignored because he hit that home run to win that game. He served his time, within his job, but it's gotta be more than that. If he were to come back I want him volunteering in a domestic violence cause, or escorting women to Planned Parenthood, or something _actually_ redemptive. I mean, look at Aroldis Chapman. Violently shot up his garage in anger at his wife/girlfriend and I doubt anyone's harassing him about it or booing him at Yankee Stadium. Basically forgotten?

seawolf17 Jun 22 2016 01:17 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: I think Reyes should play again, I don't think he should be barred from the game. He's definitely better than some of the guys on the roster, positional adjustments aside. but.. he's not good enough to override the baggage in my eyes. I generally don't think teams should consider off-field/off-season stuff very highly, but it's too much here. It's too much for him to basically succeed off it. (he'd be wallowing away on the Rockies otherwise, not possibly joining a contender) It's too much given Wilpon's history. But more so, i think it might be too important off the field. If he comes back, he'll get more cheers than when he came back as a Marlin. The incident will be forgotten. People who point out he's still an abuser will be mostly ignored because he hit that home run to win that game. He served his time, within his job, but it's gotta be more than that. If he were to come back I want him volunteering in a domestic violence cause, or escorting women to Planned Parenthood, or something _actually_ redemptive. I mean, look at Aroldis Chapman. Violently shot up his garage in anger at his wife/girlfriend and I doubt anyone's harassing him about it or booing him at Yankee Stadium. Basically forgotten? This is a really good point. We -- fans in general, if not us specifically -- tend to have short memories, especially about off-field stuff. But it's important that we don't. It's what Maggie Wiggin tweeted yesterday: "A mistake is locking your keys in the car or spilling coffee. Putting another human being in the hospital is a choice." If we're ever going to change the culture, then we need to remember these things. And from a baseball standpoint, I really don't know. He's been mediocre the past few years. Is it worth taking a flyer on a rejuvenated, excited Jose Reyes? Maybe, but like Ceetar said, we need to bring the baggage with it and make sure we take care of it in the open.

Lefty Specialist Jun 22 2016 01:25 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Taking the temperature of GKR last night, I got the feeling that Ron was in favor, Keith against and Gary was in the middle. Ron's point was that this is the only place Jose can succeed. He'd built up enough good will here previously that it would mitigate the personal stuff. Anywhere else, it would be 'wife-beater Jose Reyes' without that reservoir of past performance to draw on. Not to be construed as an endorsement. I'd still prefer Dilson.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 01:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I understand that argument. But it's an argument about what's best for Reyes, and not what's best for the Mets, to say nothing about what's best for his wife/society/women/etc. It would do Reyes well to take the initiative and make gestures of public contrition (hopefully sincere ones) before having them mandated as part of any new relationship with an organization.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 22 2016 04:37 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I mean, look at Aroldis Chapman. Violently shot up his garage in anger at his wife/girlfriend and I doubt anyone's harassing him about it or booing him at Yankee Stadium. Basically forgotten? I'm going to ask kind of a tough question: Does our level of forgiveness or willingness to forget correspond with the player's ability? If this is Jose circa 2007, would we be worried about baggage and demand visits to domestic violence shelters? It's easy to say that it's an issue for a guy who is passed his prime. But Chapman still throws 100 mph. I can't think of a time where the Mets had a prime-time guy with these kind of issues and how fans responded. K-Rod, maybe, but he was kind of sucking when things went bad.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 22 2016 04:41 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

And, I'll get in trouble here again, but has there been an effort to deal with the root causes of what happened with Reyes and is his wife? Was there drinking involved? Anger issues? Seems like if we care about the person we want to see that they get the help they need, not just show that they are properly apologetic.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 04:50 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't think we know. Part of the situation in such cases is often that a deal is made and details don't get aired. In this case, the wife refused to cooperate with prosecutors, and charges were dropped. There are some things we'll never know. I'm going to ask kind of a tough question: Does our level of forgiveness or willingness to forget correspond with the player's ability? If this is Jose circa 2007, would we be worried about baggage and demand visits to domestic violence shelters? It's easy to say that it's an issue for a guy who is passed his prime. But Chapman still throws 100 mph. I can't think of a time where the Mets had a prime-time guy with these kind of issues and how fans responded. K-Rod, maybe, but he was kind of sucking when things went bad. Carl Everett, arrested for child abuse based (if I recall correctly) on injuries observed at a Shea Stadium day care center. I believe the bruises were eventually attributed to his wife, removing some of the how-can-you-root-for-this-guy? moral quandary. He was in his pre-prime at this point. Then there are the early nineties incidents against the media and fans by several players — bleach-spraying, firecrackers, golf clubs, trips to the Bronx. But such cases involve men already under contract. You own them and own the sins and you work with them as they come as best as you can. This is a different case of buying in after the sin is already on the ledger, and is somewhat analogous to signing Marlon Byrd or Bartolo Colón, whose sins were neither violent nor interpersonal, but similarly put the team in an uphill position from the get-go, as far as accepting and dealing with a player who needs redeeming.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2016 04:51 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Part of the deal with MLB is that Jose (and other similar offenders) have to go through some kind of counseling program so yes, it's being addressed. And yes, a player who plays well is more likely to be forgiven than one who isn't. Nice guys who play poorly become despised so bad guys who play poorly will certainly face a great deal of heat from the fans. You mentioned Francisco Rodriguez. I guess he's the closest thing in Mets history to Jose Reyes' current situation, but Jose has much more capital with Mets fans than Frankie ever did. Other Mets who "did bad" (but with quite different circumstances) include Cleon Jones (sex with a white woman!), Keith Hernandez (cocaine), and Lenny Randle (punched out his manager just prior to becoming a Met).

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 04:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I have no evidence, but I kind of suspect Matt Harvey has had sex with white women. Just a hunch.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2016 05:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Well, if that's ever confirmed he should be forced into a public apology and then released.

seawolf17 Jun 22 2016 06:09 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: I have no evidence, but I kind of suspect Matt Harvey has had sex with white women. Just a hunch. More than one at a time, apparently.

Lefty Specialist Jun 22 2016 06:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: I have no evidence, but I kind of suspect Matt Harvey has had sex with white women. Just a hunch. Was in in a van in Spring training? With M. Donald Grant knocking on the window?

soupcan Jun 22 2016 07:35 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: In this case, the wife refused to cooperate with prosecutors, and charges were dropped. There are some things we'll never know. Guilty until proven innocent?

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 07:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Edgy MD wrote: In this case, the wife refused to cooperate with prosecutors, and charges were dropped. There are some things we'll never know. Guilty until proven innocent? well, he admitted to it no? No one's denying it happened, whether or not it's actionable legally.

soupcan Jun 22 2016 08:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Did he admit it? Wouldn't that then be evidence enough to prosecute? Why would charges be dropped if he confessed?

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 08:17 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Did he admit it? Wouldn't that then be evidence enough to prosecute? Why would charges be dropped if he confessed? I can't find a quote from him, but regardless, she told cops he pulled her off the bed and slammed her into the glass door and she went to the hospital with injuries consistent with that. He didn't offer any other explanation. The trial didn't happen because she didn't want it to, but it doesn't change what he did.

soupcan Jun 22 2016 08:21 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

i'm not defending the guy and I'll admit that the system may be flawed, but no charges were filed. In the eyes of Johnny Law that makes him an alledged wife beater as opposed to a charged and/or convicted one. As I said - guilty until proven innocent. DISCLAIMER: I LOVE Jose and would welcome him back to Queens.

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 08:24 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I require a lower burden of proof than the legal system. Barry Bonds allegedly took steroids.

soupcan Jun 22 2016 08:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'd just like to know the wife's reasons for not pressing charges is all. Could be that it was a fight that got blown out of proportion. Could be that she was afraid of Jose's wrath if she did file. Could be that she was concerned about lost income. Could be that he threatened to kill her family. Without knowing, we don't know.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 08:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

But presumably, any team that that signs him would try to suss out both sides of the story, even if it's never shared with the public.

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 08:35 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: I'd just like to know the wife's reasons for not pressing charges is all. Could be that it was a fight that got blown out of proportion. Could be that she was afraid of Jose's wrath if she did file. Could be that she was concerned about lost income. Could be that he threatened to kill her family. Without knowing, we don't know. I don't see anyway that it suggests he didn't shove her into a glass door and injure her. And it's not like they're remotely equal in stature. He's a ripped professional athlete, it doesn't matter if it was blown out of proportion, he still intentionally attacked her. Edgy MD wrote: But presumably, any team that that signs him would try to suss out both sides of the story. There's no way a team is going to start badgering his wife to tell her side of the story. You're not going to bring her in and interview her alone before you decide, and you can't do it with anyone else present or it's tainted. The NFL did that with Ray Rice, and it's beyond stupid.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2016 08:38 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I agree. I think it's more accurate to say that any team that signs him has to pretty much assume (as we all have) that he did attack his wife, and the team will have to decide if that's something they can live with, if whatever Jose can provide on the field outweighs the off-the-field negatives that he'll carry for life.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 08:46 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: But presumably, any team that that signs him would try to suss out both sides of the story. There's no way a team is going to start badgering his wife to tell her side of the story. You're not going to bring her in and interview her alone before you decide, and you can't do it with anyone else present or it's tainted. The NFL did that with Ray Rice, and it's beyond stupid. Well, MLB apparently conducted an investigation, so insinuate that I'm "beyond stupid" all you want, but somewhere, accounts are on file, and more details are available than you or I have.

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 08:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

yes, MLB conducted an investigation as part of their domestic abuse policy and acted upon it. We're past that now. And I didn't say you were stupid, I said interviewing domestic violence victims in front of the abuser about the abuser is stupid.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2016 08:56 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: yes, MLB conducted an investigation as part of their domestic abuse policy and acted upon it. We're past that now. How exhausting. The report of that investigation, which you can be as "past" as you want, is to my thinking, part of what the Mets will review. Ceetar wrote: And I didn't say you were stupid, I said interviewing domestic violence victims in front of the abuser about the abuser is stupid. How doubly exhausting. Let's please try and stay on point. No, you didn't. I didn't say you did. I said you insinuated it, which you did. I also didn't suggest the Mets would or wouldn't interview domestic violence victims in front of the abuser about the abuser. At all. I said they would try and suss out both sides of the story, and I imagine reviewing the report from the investigation would probably go much of the way toward accomplishing this.

soupcan Jun 22 2016 09:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: I don't see anyway that it suggests he didn't shove her into a glass door and injure her. And it's not like they're remotely equal in stature. He's a ripped professional athlete, it doesn't matter if it was blown out of proportion, he still intentionally attacked her. 'Suggests'? Yeah, you're probably right. But without charges being filed and having his wife's testimony, you don't really know what happened. You don't know what their relationship is like. There are quite a few unkowns here. Could be Jose didn't fight the MLB suspension to protect her. You don't know. Again - I don't want to come off as if I'm defending Jose. I'm just trying to sort of play devil's advocate here and point out just how much is unknown.

Ceetar Jun 22 2016 09:22 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: I don't see anyway that it suggests he didn't shove her into a glass door and injure her. And it's not like they're remotely equal in stature. He's a ripped professional athlete, it doesn't matter if it was blown out of proportion, he still intentionally attacked her. 'Suggests'? Yeah, you're probably right. But without charges being filed and having his wife's testimony, you don't really know what happened. You don't know what their relationship is like. There are quite a few unkowns here. Could be Jose didn't fight the MLB suspension to protect her. You don't know. Again - I don't want to come off as if I'm defending Jose. I'm just trying to sort of play devil's advocate here and point out just how much is unknown. a lot is unknown, but what's not unknown is that we have a 911 call and a medical report (well, we have the 911 call, _someone_ has a medical report) I mean, we can get into the shades of gray about how bad a domestic violence incident it was. People lose their temper and act in anger all the time, but in the end, when the result is an injured person it doesn't really matter why. I do think there is a road to some sort of 'redemption' for Jose, but between the diminished skills, and the positional adjustment, that road is just not the Mets. It doesn't really matter what they investigate about it. I'm not sure there's a single realistic phrase that could come from the Mets, owned by Jeff Wilpon, that would redeem the signing of Jose Reyes in the light of the violence.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 23 2016 12:42 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Like Ceetar said, the asserted/established facts of the matter haven't really been in dispute. To an indeterminate extent, I think we can certainly use him on-field; as others have said earlier upthread, he brings contact-hitting and baserunning skills we sorely lack, and may be an upgrade over current third-base/backup-middle-infield options. As a father of a daughter and the husband/son/nephew/grandson to a number of women who've dealt with varying degrees of emotional and physical violence from partners and other loved ones... it would be a very, very difficult sell.

Nymr83 Jun 23 2016 01:14 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: I'd just like to know the wife's reasons for not pressing charges is all.

Nymr83 Jun 23 2016 01:16 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I mean, look at Aroldis Chapman. Violently shot up his garage in anger at his wife/girlfriend and I doubt anyone's harassing him about it or booing him at Yankee Stadium. Basically forgotten? Can't we hold ourselves to higher standard than what Yankees Fans do?

cooby Jun 23 2016 02:03 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

As in 'Jose we love you but you just don't throw your wife against a wall'? Yes let's do that

soupcan Jun 23 2016 01:43 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm sorry but none of these guys are perfect and short of even having charges pressed against him, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 23 2016 02:22 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

cooby wrote: As in 'Jose we love you but you just don't throw your wife against a wall'? Yes let's do that He apparently did a horrible thing. He'll always have this stain on him, and he should. At the same time, if he gets the help he needs, and recognizes the seriousness of the action and is properly contrite, I think he deserves a second chance. I think people deserve an opportunity to turn their lives around. I'm questioning whether the move makes baseball sense. He's not going to replace Cabrera as our starting shortstop. He's being touted for a utility role but plays one position. At this point, is he better than Matt Reynolds, who he'd be replacing? If yes, then let's proceed. If not, then we should wish Jose the best in his life and career. He'll get a Mets Hall of Fame plaque at some point.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 23 2016 04:03 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

He's played second. For us. Also, is he better than Matt Reynolds? Yes. Yes, he's almost certainly Matt-Reynolds-plus.

Edgy MD Jun 23 2016 05:38 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

One factor in this is that he'd almost certainly have to get his game together in Vegas during a month or so, giving the Mets the time to assess what their needs will be the rest of the season, whether he can still perform, whether he can reasonably perform at other positions, and whether they can work with him to make a good story out of this awful one. Else it's one of those reunions that happens on paper, but is never realized in uniform, like Edgardo Alfonzo in 2006.

Edgy MD Jun 23 2016 06:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Jon Heyman wrote: With it looking like Reyes is headed to free agency, the chances for a return to the Mets have gone from nil to very good in seemingly no time. http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/new-yo ... eyes-mets/

Ceetar Jun 23 2016 07:03 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

hey look at that, like clockwork, someone brings up Reyes again with vague rumors so we can keep talking about it! 24 hour news cycle wins again.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 23 2016 07:17 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: With it looking like Reyes is headed to free agency, the chances for a return to the Mets have gone from nil to very good in seemingly no time. http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/new-yo ... eyes-mets/ Totally believeable in the sense that theyd never trade anything of value for him and sure as hell wouldn't take on that contract. Only questions are whether he can play anymore or whether hes accepring of the role he will be offered. Mets would know better than most what ki d of character they are getting, good and bad.

86-Dreamer Jun 23 2016 09:15 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Reyes was not good last year but had a 3.2 WAR as recently as 2014. Cespedes is the only Mets position player on track to produce more than that this year. It is not reasonable to expect Reyes to jump right back up to that level of production, but you'd have a tough time finding another minimum salary player with the potential to be even half that good. Send him to Vegas and see what happens.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2016 07:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Jon Heyman saying that Jose to the Mets is "very likely". http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/new-yo ... es-likely/ The Mets and their former star Jose Reyes are very likely to reunite, according to people familiar with the situation, though there’s no done deal at this point. He's played 9 games for the Rockies' AAA team in Albuquerque this year, so he wouldn't be starting from square one in his preparation. I'm not sure though how long it would take for him to gear up to be ready to play in the big leagues. (He was 10 for 33 with 7 walks, 2 homers, and 3 steals, .303 /.425/.485 in those 9 games.) I think it's a good baseball move. Low risk, high reward. From a human perspective, I'm less certain. The incident in Maui may have been an uncharacteristic one-off (although I'm skeptical of that) and people do deserve second chances. I'm not so sure that I want the Mets to be the team giving the second chance in this case.

Ashie62 Jun 24 2016 08:20 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Bring him in, the NFL does it hourly.

Centerfield Jun 24 2016 08:25 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I really don't know what to make of the domestic violence charges. On one hand, I think it is incredibly dangerous to punish or condemn anyone based upon allegations or suspicion alone. That is a very, very dangerous path. Who knows what might have happened that night. Although unlikely, maybe Jose was acting in self-defense (See Finley, Chuck) or maybe he feared for the safety of his kids. We just don't know. At the same time, MLB felt there was enough to suspend him for 50 games, so they must have found something. Is there a report available? Maybe that could shed some light. And anyone with half a brain knows that it is still very, very difficult for a woman to follow through on such charges, and that there is tremendous social pressure to drop them. So chances are, Jose fucked up. But again, how can we know for sure?

Edgy MD Jun 24 2016 08:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ashie62 wrote: Bring him in, the NFL does it hourly. The NFL is just an awful and hateful standard. Whatever the decision, it surely demands a more thoughtful process than the NFL has ever indulged in.

Centerfield Jun 24 2016 08:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Bring him in, the NFL does it hourly. The NFL is just an awful and hateful standard. Whatever the decision, it surely demands a more thoughtful process than the NFL has ever indulged in. Yeah, I think "the NFL does it" is a terrible justification for any action.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2016 09:23 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I agree. It's like asking Donald Trump for advice.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 24 2016 09:54 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

If it goes down, Jose has worn 7 at every stop in MLB. 77 like a left tackle? My bet is 6. He's a June baby. Shitty rooting for a domestic abuser (yeah, we don't know for sure, but I feel like we know for sure). His wife is still with him, I guess, and I hope that's out of his contrition and not her fear. Don't be an asshole, Jose.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2016 12:27 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Bring him in, the NFL does it hourly. The NFL is just an awful and hateful standard. Whatever the decision, it surely demands a more thoughtful process than the NFL has ever indulged in. The NFL has a domestic abuse policy. It is unfortunate they have to refer to it so often.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2016 12:53 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

The NFL [u:28bv47l8]Claims[/u:28bv47l8] to have a domestic abuse policy, one that they cobbled together following their complete clusterfuck handling of the Ray Rice "incident", an incident they knew about and then only acted on once both halves of the video became public.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2016 01:20 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Yeah, a policy arrived at while doing everything wrong while not really caring if you did anything right, but only trying to appear to care — a policy that I still assume is cover and will be diverged from as soon as the league suspects it's in her interests — ain't my idea of a model.

d'Kong76 Jun 25 2016 02:20 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Guess he's gonna be a Met, according to broadcast booth (Gary).

Edgy MD Jun 25 2016 02:23 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Wow. Of all the dudes out there.

Centerfield Jun 25 2016 03:42 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

As a baseball move, I guess it makes sense, especially since the Mets seem allergic to calling up Herrera. Jose becomes a good insurance policy for Cabrera, especially if he starts to fade like he did in the past. Maybe giving him regular rest will lessen the chances of that. Even a creaky Reyes becomes the Mets' best SB threat/pinch runner. If he had been here last week maybe we wouldn't have had to endure Flores running in cement shoes as the tying run and getting thrown out at the plate. In the end I doubt this move will be a difference maker unless Cabrera gets hurt. But with the way guys are dropping like flies, you can't blame Sandy for collecting warm bodies. It would suck to see Reyes sign with someone else then see Cabrera go down for the season.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2016 12:04 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Maybe the Mets would put Jose in as the primary LF and send Conforto to Vegas for awhile.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 25 2016 01:58 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

It sounds like this is really going to happen -- as soon as today.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2016 05:24 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Like momentarily.

G-Fafif Jun 25 2016 06:30 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Officially signed to minor league deal. Goes to Brooklyn tomorrow.

soupcan Jun 25 2016 06:45 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Good.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2016 06:51 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

G-Fafif wrote: Officially signed to minor league deal. Goes to Brooklyn tomorrow. The 'Pons know how to milk a low-level signing.

Zvon Jun 25 2016 06:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

My wish was to see Wright & Reyes playing together for the Mets again so I'm half happy. If by some miracle Wright returns this season AND we make it to the big show, win or lose, that would be a storybook ending for me, a better one if we win. Of course I only expect Reyes to be a bit player, but that's a pretty good chip to have in your pile.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2016 07:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

"Vague rumors" my vague butt!

Gwreck Jun 25 2016 07:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I wish the Mets hadn't done this.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 25 2016 09:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm sure there will be some Potvin-esque "Beat your wife, Reyes, beat your wife" chants on the road. And, unlike Bastardo, if it goes bad, they can cut him without any real financial consequences. Sandy made it sound like he was going to play third, and rarely appear at short. The team on Facebook said Reyes was going beyond what was required in terms of counseling and other ongoing care. I didn't want this, but will be happy if it works out and Reyes makes the best of his second chance.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2016 10:29 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Will play some SS,2B and outfield but the hope is that he is our new Third baseman per Star Ledger. I hope Jose shaves the facial hair, he kinda looks like a thug.

TransMonk Jun 25 2016 10:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Gwreck wrote: I wish the Mets hadn't done this. I'm not seeing the downside.

Zvon Jun 25 2016 11:04 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ashie62 wrote: Will play some SS,2B and outfield but the hope is that he is our new Third baseman per Star Ledger. I hope Jose shaves the facial hair, he kinda looks like a thug. Have you seen the Jose vid on twitter? Singing about New York and looking rather thuggish. Maybe he is a thug. He sure looked happy. Jose comes home.

TransMonk Jun 25 2016 11:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

As I have expressed in the past, I deeply regret the incident that occurred and remain remorseful and apologetic to my family. I have completed the counseling required by MLB, have been in ongoing therapy, and will continue with counseling going forward. I appreciate the Mets organization for believing in me and providing the opportunity to come back home to New York. https://twitter.com/lamelaza_7/status/7 ... 2832277504

themetfairy Jun 25 2016 11:52 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Gwreck wrote: I wish the Mets hadn't done this. I agree.

Rockin' Doc Jun 26 2016 12:22 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I expect little from Reyes at this point in his career. I loved him his first time with the Mets, but now I have a hard time accepting him with open arms after he put a choke hold on his wife. I understand that we all make mistakes and have to suffer the consequences of our actions, but I just can't embrace Reyes back with open arms. I'm not a Yankee fan, I expect more than just production from the players representing my team.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2016 05:11 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

themetfairy wrote: Gwreck wrote: I wish the Mets hadn't done this. I agree. Well, yeah. I'm not exactly feeling "F*ck THIS guy." I'm also not thinking, "Well, I just hope he can get on base." I'm wary, mostly. But... it's a mix of things. I think it's okay to feel complicated about this, though. Or most things.

Edgy MD Jun 26 2016 11:01 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

“We made the decision to offer a contract to Jose after extensive consideration and discussion with Jose, his representatives, Major League Baseball and various departments at the Mets. We are convinced that Jose has accepted responsibility for his actions and their consequences and have confirmed he is taking steps beyond those prescribed by MLB, including ongoing counseling. Accordingly, we believe he deserves a second chance to return to our organization.” – Sandy Alderson Now the rubber hits the road.

bmfc1 Jun 26 2016 12:55 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I hope that the Mets have him at Brooklyn for reasons other than to increase the gate on Sunday and Monday.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2016 01:14 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I figure it's because he won't be far from New York in case they want to call him up a bit sooner than planned.

themetfairy Jun 26 2016 02:25 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

He lives on Long Island and doesn't want to trek down to real minor leaguesville.

Lefty Specialist Jun 26 2016 02:47 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

My wife and I argued (non-violently) about this. Interestingly, she was a lot more supportive of this move than I was.

soupcan Jun 26 2016 02:57 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'll preface this by saying - again - that I know I'm biased here and wouldn't bother to make the same argument for a guy I don't care about on a team I don't care about (Chapman/Yankees). If you're saying that Jose's domestic abuse situation is the reason you don't want him back on the Mets, then are you saying that he - and anyone else in his position - doesn't deserve a second chance? Do you believe that once this kind of thing happens in a relationship that there is no coming back from it? That no amount of therapy or contrition can change the person? I've been married for over 20 years and I know that marriage ain't easy. There have been times when I've been so angry that I may have wanted to lash out physically. I never did because however angry or frustrated I was, my sense of humanity, decency, whatever stopped me. But I can't assume that every relationship is like mine and that every person has had the same life and life experiences I've had. I'm not saying that domestic violence is ever acceptable or should ever be excused but what I am saying is that we shouldn't paint everyone with the same broad brush. Even the experts and advocates for the abused believe that relationships sometimes can become even stronger and more respectful following a domestic violence instance. In a lot of those cases one of the greatest factors is placing the abuser in a supportive environment with people whom he respects and feels responsibility toward. With Reyes that seems to be what is happening. We all loved this guy once and uniformly thought of him as a 'good guy'. Why not give him another chance at becoming the guy we all thought he once was? He's said all the right things, he's done all the right things.

d'Kong76 Jun 26 2016 03:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Very well stated, señor soup.

bmfc1 Jun 26 2016 05:21 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Perhaps another reason that they are starting him at Brooklyn is to lessen the chances of him hearing "HEY WIFE BEATER!" They go to State College, PA after that. They have their own issues.

cooby Jun 26 2016 05:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

themetfairy wrote: Gwreck wrote: I wish the Mets hadn't done this. I agree. Me too

cooby Jun 26 2016 05:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

bmfc1 wrote: Perhaps another reason that they are starting him at Brooklyn is to lessen the chances of him hearing "HEY WIFE BEATER!" They go to State College, PA after that. They have their own issues. No we don't. Sandusky would never be welcomed back here.

Frayed Knot Jun 26 2016 07:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Reyes won't be in Brooklyn for his entire 'summer training' session. Probably will spend most of his time in/with Binghamton.

bmfc1 Jun 26 2016 07:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

cooby wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Perhaps another reason that they are starting him at Brooklyn is to lessen the chances of him hearing "HEY WIFE BEATER!" They go to State College, PA after that. They have their own issues. No we don't. Sandusky would never be welcomed back here. Sorry to impugn your people.

cooby Jun 26 2016 07:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

No offense taken

d'Kong76 Jun 26 2016 08:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

From 06/26 IGT: Lefty Specialist wrote: If the Rockies can eat $38 million on Reyes I'm just asking, but are they really on the hook for all that money? Between insurance and personal conduct clauses I'd think Reyes is the one taking the financial hit. I really don't know, haven't read too much about the whole detailed sorry saga.

Frayed Knot Jun 26 2016 08:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

It was some $22/year for two years (2017-18) plus some buyout money for '19. The only thing they get 'relief' on is for the time he was suspended - approx the salary for 1/3 of one season - so that's where the $38-ish million comes from. I doubt the Rox had some kind of 'If our guy commits a felony' insurance policy on Jose that would recoup anything beyond that.

Edgy MD Jun 26 2016 08:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I was questioning the other half of that equation. The Mets wouldn't be eating $18 million if they cut those two loose, but approximately $12,743,750, as the season is about 45% over. Not advocating, just multiplying.

Zvon Jun 26 2016 09:17 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

People keep saying that she dropped charges and tried to reconcile because of the money, but if she divorced him and moved on, money-wise(support) she'd be pretty set for life. No? I don't get the money angle. I would like to think that the children are her major concern and this is why she is giving Reyes another chance.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 27 2016 01:03 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

cooby wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Perhaps another reason that they are starting him at Brooklyn is to lessen the chances of him hearing "HEY WIFE BEATER!" They go to State College, PA after that. They have their own issues. No we don't. Sandusky would never be welcomed back here. Well, to be fair, the guy who covered for him for several decades is pretty revered, yet. Anyway... JoseJoseJose was cheered in his first game back for your Cyclones. The comments before the game seemed a little more sincere than the PR-firm-crafted-sounding Twitter missives. “I need to be a better man,’’ Reyes said. “Be a better husband. Be a better dad for my girls. I got three girls, I need to be an example for them. I’m a human being. I made a terrible mistake. I say so sorry to everybody. I say sorry to my wife, my dad, my mom, to everybody. They know I’m a better person than that. “I paid my suspension to MLB. I went to counseling. I’m going to continue to be going again to counseling, whatever it takes. They will see a man who stands up for his mistake.’’ All the right things. And still... again, I'm of several minds about this.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 27 2016 03:57 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

They got a talented guy who does things the rest of the club cannot, who desperately needs to re-establish himself for his own good. The upside on this could be considerable.

bmfc1 Jun 27 2016 11:37 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Rubin told us last night that the Mets have an option on Jose for 2017 and would only have to pay him the league minimum.

Lefty Specialist Jun 27 2016 01:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

bmfc1 wrote: Rubin told us last night that the Mets have an option on Jose for 2017 and would only have to pay him the league minimum. That's stunning. If Jose can get his act together that could be an awesome bargain.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 27 2016 01:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't think it's that stunning. The Rockies are still on the hook for 2017, so the same rules apply regarding the Mets only being required to pay the minimum salary. Reyes could have insisted on a one-year deal, which would have allowed him to shop his cheap salary around to other teams for next year, but since the Mets are clearly his preference, I'm not surprised that the Mets were able to leverage him into a two-year agreement.

Ceetar Jun 27 2016 03:05 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't begrudge Reyes his second chance. I don't even really begrudge the Mets for signing him(aggressively promoting him might be a different thing), they're not a PR firm and their reputation and profitability isn't based on good deeds, almost exclusively it's based on winning and Reyes helps them do that a lot more than Eric Campbell, or De Aza has so far or even likely Wilmer Flores or Kelly Johnson. But ultimately we're profiting because a woman got put in the hospital by her husband. Reyes, despite losing some money, is going from wallowing on the Rockies to a contending team which might even mean he makes MORE money in the end if he has late season or postseason success this year or next. His wife's likely the only one that loses in this scenario, and that's a problem.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 27 2016 05:38 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm not disappointed in the Mets for signing Jose. Truth is, a guy like Jose will probably have a slightly better chance of being a decent human being going forward if he has the support and the resources of an organization that is invested him, assuming neither the Mets nor Jose mail in those platitudes about remorse and counseling, etc. But it's not about Jose or the Mets. What I'd like to see is the organization be a very outspoken and generous advocate for domestic violence victims. Not just a leader in baseball, but all of sports, and even beyond. Employing Jose wouldn't look hypocritical if they really went out and backed organizations that provide assistance to victims, and used their own employment practices as a platform to highlight public education and counseling/rehabilitation for abusers. Sandy sez (bold is mine): "I think we fully understand that there will be differences of opinion about this, that some people will feel strongly and differently," Alderson said. "I think we accept that. We respect that. And all I can say is that both Jose and the organization will be held to a standard going forward that recognizes the seriousness of domestic abuse and a commitment to stand against it." I don't know what that means exactly, but I hope they go big. Teams do sexual harassment training. They should add an awareness training on domestic violence and anger. Teams give away tacos and Subway sandwiches for home runs. Maybe give sacks of money to organizations that provide domestic violence outreach and support, as well. Have an awareness weekend where the team uses purple-colored bats, or wears a ribbon or a patch, whatever. Just make noise about it and give money to people fighting it. Don't just say words at the press conference.

Lefty Specialist Jun 27 2016 05:55 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't think it's that stunning. The Rockies are still on the hook for 2017, so the same rules apply regarding the Mets only being required to pay the minimum salary. Reyes could have insisted on a one-year deal, which would have allowed him to shop his cheap salary around to other teams for next year, but since the Mets are clearly his preference, I'm not surprised that the Mets were able to leverage him into a two-year agreement. Even so, if Reyes can show flashes of the ballplayer he used to be that's a bargain. I'm under no illusions that 2006-era Jose will show up. But even a diminished Jose in this lineup could jump-start things.

RealityChuck Jun 27 2016 06:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I hope by the end of the season, he can stop being the leader on this list.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 27 2016 06:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

But it's not about Jose or the Mets. What I'd like to see is the organization be a very outspoken and generous advocate for domestic violence victims. Not just a leader in baseball, but all of sports, and even beyond. Employing Jose wouldn't look hypocritical if they really went out and backed organizations that provide assistance to victims, and used their own employment practices as a platform to highlight public education and counseling/rehabilitation for abusers. On one hand, I think this all would be good. On the other, I'm not sure if this is a proper role for a baseball team. Maybe it should focus on playing baseball. It's not always a good thing when groups go outside their lanes. Here are so many important causes. I'm torn.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2016 06:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

There are so many important causes, and the Mets have there hands in dozens of them, but when one of them is directly involved in the sins your players have committed, there's something of a greater moral imperative to make that your mission of choice. Because let's face it, there's a lot of red ink when it comes to athletes asserting their alpha man prowess and committing acts of sexual and domestic aggression. It was an administration or two ago when the hiring took place, but I guess it can be said that the Mets have walked this road before when they brought Wally Backman back into the fold. I certainly can't say to what extent they took the gravity of past accusations against him, or what measures they took to use his employment as an opportunity for advancement, but there's that.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 27 2016 06:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: But it's not about Jose or the Mets. What I'd like to see is the organization be a very outspoken and generous advocate for domestic violence victims. Not just a leader in baseball, but all of sports, and even beyond. Employing Jose wouldn't look hypocritical if they really went out and backed organizations that provide assistance to victims, and used their own employment practices as a platform to highlight public education and counseling/rehabilitation for abusers. On one hand, I think this all would be good. On the other, I'm not sure if this is a proper role for a baseball team. Maybe it should focus on playing baseball. It's not always a good thing when groups go outside their lanes. Here are so many important causes. I'm torn. The Mets already do outreach for all kinds of shit. I think they could add to that and still manage to focus on baseball playing.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jun 27 2016 07:25 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I was just raising the question. A lot of those charities aren't along the lines of making amends for the transgressions of an employee, or to balance hiring those employees. I just don't know how far you go with that.

Lefty Specialist Jun 27 2016 07:34 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Well, there's the Katz Institute for Women's Health, which gets a contribution to Uncle Saul's favorite charity with every Met win. Wonder if he ever transgressed.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2016 07:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

My mother is currently a patient and beneficiary of the Katz Womens Hospital at LIJ. All hail Uncle Saul.

themetfairy Jun 27 2016 07:54 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Best of luck to her!

Lefty Specialist Jun 27 2016 08:19 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

No harm intended, and best of luck with your mom. It just always seemed very self-serving when your name is over the door and you own an entity that donates to you. I'm sure they do good work, it just always struck me as odd. At least they're not donating to the Wilpon Center for Financial Management.

Frayed Knot Jun 27 2016 09:01 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

And then there's the final question concerning Reyes's return ... whether or not he gets to reclaim his #7 Personally I wouldn't mind Travis giving it up for Jose but only if he, as a catcher with promise, gets to wear #8 thereby taking that number out of its current semi-mothballed state. Honor the former player by giving his number to a worthy successor, not by putting the jersey in cold storage for several decades.

G-Fafif Jun 27 2016 09:09 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Binghamton, or wherever they're playing, is Jose's next stop after tonight.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 27 2016 10:48 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Im at the Cyclones game NOW!!! Jose leading off, Gabriel Llanes pitching, Jay Horwitz in the Cyclones dugout. I asked him if he could find Gabe for me. no dice.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2016 11:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Reyes 0-1 with a walk.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 28 2016 03:05 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

yeah he looked close to terrible tonight. Missed an infield popup in the wind, not fast enough to gather in a hot shot to the hot corner. shallow fly to left, 4 putch walk rhen caught looking. Jay Jabs replaced him at 3rd later and smashed a RBI double. Cyclones charged with 4 errors but really had 7 if you count Jose's 2 and a grounder to first which should have been an easy force at home but turned into desperate tag out at first after a bobble. There was also a dropped fly to CF that shpuld gave been a DP as the guy at first was running. Gabe Llanes was a victim of all this shit fielding. He d pitched better than a guy who gave up 5 runs on 4 singles. Other team ran on him with ease. he is raw like they say. Other observations: Catcher Dan Rizzie tripled but immediately got caught off the base on a grounder to third. Gene Cone is a taut, wiry LH hitter who hustles a lot. Singled and scored. Freezing cold in the ocean wind and then it started raining. We left in 8th, Clones down 6-2.

G-Fafif Jul 05 2016 03:48 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

To be activated Tuesday, corresponding move TBA. Td'A is graciously handing over 7.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 03:51 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Travis is awful young and important to be on his third enumerator. Curious to see if José cracks the lineup against the lefty. I might have elected to debut him on the road.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 05 2016 07:27 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Travis is Filipino. Whether it's Spanish, Americans, or, hell, anyone, really... to a fault, we tend to accommodate. I'd like to see continued, unforced contrition along with the postgame celebrations. People give thanks to God apropos of nothing all the time... why not thank the people around you for forgiving/supporting you in spite of your acts? It's no less of a non sequitur, really.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 05 2016 11:31 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Mom's basement tastemaker advocates Mets solve the d'Arnaud-Reyes conundrum dramatically.

Lefty Specialist Jul 05 2016 12:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'd be OK with giving him 8. Carter really only had a few good years with the Mets, and he went into the hall as an Expo (which he should have). It's not like they'd be giving him 31. Ron and Keith might grumble a bit. They're holding out the number but they haven't really retired it. It's like 24 (except for Kelvin Torve and Rickey Henderson). I mean, Willie Mays was an awesome player, but he wasn't an awesome player for the Mets.

Frayed Knot Jul 05 2016 12:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm all for Travis in #8, I said so last week and I'm pretty sure I also said as much back when he first came up.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2016 12:41 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'd like to see Travis in number 8, but a return to 15 would also be nice. I don't know what the deal is with 8 and the Mets. They didn't retire it when Carter went into the Cooperstown Hall of Fame or the Mets Hall of Fame. They didn't retire it when he got sick. And they didn't retire it when he died. There's really nothing else that could happen that would trigger a retirement of the number, so they might as well take it out of limbo.

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 01:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Since i'm on the retire 15 bandwagon, I'd prefer Travis stay at 7 and Reyes gets like, 79 or something.

soupcan Jul 05 2016 01:37 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I dont think 8 should be retired, I dont think 15 should be retired and as much as I dig Jose, I don't think Travis should give up 7 for him.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2016 01:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I agree that neither 8 nor 15 should be retired. The next number that should hang on the wall (after 31, of course) is 5.

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 02:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

While I was on the wagon to re-sign Jose, I'm not so sure he should get his old number and lead-off spot back right off the bat. He still has a lot to earn.

cooby Jul 05 2016 02:22 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

15 = Jerry Grote? He's the only 15 I can even think of, but retire his #? I know, I could look it up on Widey's magnificent website, but I am trying to do research in my head for once

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2016 02:23 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm pretty sure he's thinking Carlos Beltran. Although Jerry Grote was my first thought too.

cooby Jul 05 2016 02:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Retire Beltran? lolololololololololololololololol Let's retire Dave Kingman and Todd Hundley too!

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 02:34 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Carlos Beltran is sixth all-time in WAR for the franchise, according to baseball-reference. Gary Carter is something like 40th.

cooby Jul 05 2016 02:36 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

and that is .....

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 02:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Not enough for my money. Not enough to get 15 retired for Beltran. Not enough to get 8 semi-retired for Gary Carter.

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 02:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Beltran is a Hall of Famer, and if it's not a blank cap, it'll likely be a Mets cap. That has seemingly been the bar for retirement so far.

cooby Jul 05 2016 02:45 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm not really a fan of retiring numbers, period.

d'Kong76 Jul 05 2016 02:48 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm not at all jazzed up about his return. Is he gonna start? Who's he gonna bump? Flores is en fuego. The team is on fire.

soupcan Jul 05 2016 02:54 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 wrote: I'm not at all jazzed up about his return. Is he gonna start? Who's he gonna bump? Flores is en fuego. The team is on fire. I trust Terry not to muck up the mojo.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2016 02:56 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I would hope not. Reyes made a bit more sense a week ago, when the team looked pathetic. Now that they look awesome, I'd consider letting Reyes wait a little longer. Who does he replace on the roster? Reynolds?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 05 2016 02:57 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think it's very much in Josejose's interest he does well. That doesn't mean he will, but it means he had better. A "good" Reyes lengthens the lineup, which is what we need.

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 03:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Who does he replace on the roster? Reynolds? On the 25-man, Reynolds is likely to get bumped. I believe Reyes would also have to be added to the 40-man. I'm guessing they 60-day DL Wright to make room, no?

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 03:03 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Reynolds seems the most likely candidate for replacement. The most likely initial lineup looks like Reyes at third, with Flores moving to first, giving Loney a day of bench action.

cooby Jul 05 2016 03:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Okay I loved Jose too and I am more than willing to give him a chance but I don't think he should break into the lineup on his very first game back. He should take 72 or 77. ( try to figure that out :) ) Drop a soso reliever from the 25 man roster for him

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2016 03:06 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Did Jose end up playing any left field during his time at Brooklyn or Binghamton? Or was that just an idea that was floated and ultimately rejected?

Frayed Knot Jul 05 2016 03:12 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

While it's increasingly likely that De Aza won't end the month of July as a Met, even the rumored use of JoseJose (plus Kelly Johnson) as a part-time outfielder doesn't mean they have a plane ticket outta town with ADA's name on it quite yet and therefore Reynolds is the odd man out here.

d'Kong76 Jul 05 2016 03:19 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: The most likely initial lineup looks like Reyes at third, with Flores moving to first I forgot about Floreboom to first option. Feeling better now. Thanks.

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 03:50 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Reyes made a bit more sense a week ago, when the team looked pathetic. Now that they look awesome, I'd consider letting Reyes wait a little longer. I mean, it's not like the team changed much from a week ago, and we should be ready for it and really really try to make sure it's not during those four games with the Nats. Wilmer bumped his wRC+ up to almost average with that 6/6 but let's not pretend he's suddenly good. James Loney is a better player. Anything but Rockies Reyes is a better player (And he was definitely accused of not caring in Colorado, after being traded away from contention). Wilmer can go back to being a good super-sub like he was late last year.

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 03:58 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Yeah, you're never as good as you think you are when you're on a winning streak and never as bad as you think you are when you're on a losing streak.

Ashie62 Jul 05 2016 04:03 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'd imagine it will take a few games for the lineup to shake out. Personally? I would try Reyes at third and Flores at 1st for starters. We have little idea of what kind of Reyes we are getting. We shall see.

d'Kong76 Jul 05 2016 04:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Wilmer bumped his wRC+ up to almost average with that 6/6 but let's not pretend he's suddenly good. James Loney is a better player. Wilmer can go back to being a good super-sub like he was late last year. Jesus, Mary, and The Donald you're just brutal sometimes!

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 04:09 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: Wilmer bumped his wRC+ up to almost average with that 6/6 but let's not pretend he's suddenly good. James Loney is a better player. Wilmer can go back to being a good super-sub like he was late last year. Jesus, Mary, and The Donald you're just brutal sometimes! Just trying not to get ahead of ourselves. Like how Nimmo getting a few hits doesn't mean we can jettison Conforto now.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 04:50 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Go get him, Ceetar! [fimg=400:21e4zfrd]http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/files/2014/01/StrawMan2.jpg[/fimg:21e4zfrd]

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 04:55 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

you might want to lookup straw man, because continually pointing out the same fact as evidence piles up is not it.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 05:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't need to look up anything, Sarcastico. If you have located an opponent who has advocated the jettisoning of Conforto, please present this person, otherwise, please spare us such arguments.

cooby Jul 05 2016 05:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

They should retire #18!

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 05:07 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: I don't need to look up anything, Sarcastico. If you have located an opponent who has advocated the jettisoning of Conforto, please present this person, otherwise, please spare us such arguments. here's an article pondering how Conforto fits into the plans and how. [url]https://86again.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/will-the-mets-clutter-hold-conforto-back/ I exaggerated wishing Conforto into the cornfield, but the article does include "maybe the Mets should start prepping for the Nimmo era" I was simply drawing a comparison about overreacting and making definitive conclusions based on a few handfuls of AB. And it's a common enough theme. highly valued prospect gets called up an fans say "he's here now, you can't sit him." and pencil him into the lineup for the next 9 years. Hell fans were ready to jettison d'Arnaud this spring for Plawecki.

soupcan Jul 05 2016 05:22 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Hell fans were ready to jettison d'Arnaud this spring for Plawecki. Now you're talking crazy talk.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 05:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I don't need to look up anything, Sarcastico. If you have located an opponent who has advocated the jettisoning of Conforto, please present this person, otherwise, please spare us such arguments. here's an article pondering how Conforto fits into the plans and how. [url]https://86again.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/will-the-mets-clutter-hold-conforto-back/ Nothing in this article — which has nothing to do with anybody here — promotes jettisoning Conforto. Maybe we should all look up "jettison." Meet George Jettison!

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 05:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: Hell fans were ready to jettison d'Arnaud this spring for Plawecki. Now you're talking crazy talk. Ashie, anyhow.

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 05:29 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

far more than just Ashie. anyway, d'Arnaud gets 18.

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 05:34 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Confirmed in the game notes: http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/documents/8 ... fa07zv.pdf [youtube:36vxac5f]jXZcJojTucg[/youtube:36vxac5f]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 05 2016 06:14 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

A double tragedy.

RealityChuck Jul 05 2016 06:15 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I don't need to look up anything, Sarcastico. If you have located an opponent who has advocated the jettisoning of Conforto, please present this person, otherwise, please spare us such arguments. here's an article pondering how Conforto fits into the plans and how. [url]https://86again.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/will-the-mets-clutter-hold-conforto-back/ I exaggerated wishing Conforto into the cornfield, but the article does include "maybe the Mets should start prepping for the Nimmo era" I was simply drawing a comparison about overreacting and making definitive conclusions based on a few handfuls of AB. And it's a common enough theme. highly valued prospect gets called up an fans say "he's here now, you can't sit him." and pencil him into the lineup for the next 9 years. Hell fans were ready to jettison d'Arnaud this spring for Plawecki. The Mike Vail effect.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 06:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

My problem is some thing you read that "fans" said, you end up putting on folks here. I would beg you to stop. Wasn't that Steve's game? Always making an argument against something nobody said, and then under cross examination, confess it was somebody on WFAN he was actually fighting?

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 06:54 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: My problem is some thing you read that "fans" said, you end up putting on folks here. I would beg you to stop. Wasn't that Steve's game? Always making an argument against something nobody said, and then under cross examination, confess it was somebody on WFAN he was actually fighting? why am I only allowed to reference people or things said here? Maybe think of my posts as contributing to a conversation rather than part of an inclusive discussion. It's not a fight. There aren't two sides. It's simply a "here's something that I've noticed in the conversation surrounding this Mets topic. It happens to not be true."

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 06:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

You're allowed to do most whatever you want. Post naked. Draw a picture of Muhammed. And if and when you make another straw man argument, I'll again beg you not to.

Ceetar Jul 05 2016 07:01 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: You're allowed to do whatever you want. Post naked. And if and when you make another straw man argument, I'll again beg you not to. they're still not straw men just because they're not posting here.

themetfairy Jul 05 2016 07:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Beltran is a Hall of Famer, and if it's not a blank cap, it'll likely be a Mets cap. That has seemingly been the bar for retirement so far. With all due respect, no fucking way (on both counts)! That he's a Hall of Famer is a close call, but I don't think he makes the cut. That he would go into the HOF as a Met is unpossible!

themetfairy Jul 05 2016 07:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

cooby wrote: I'm not really a fan of retiring numbers, period. I'm with you coobs.

Frayed Knot Jul 05 2016 07:42 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

themetfairy wrote: That he's a Hall of Famer is a close call, but I don't think he makes the cut. That he would go into the HOF as a Met is unpossible! I think he will make it to C-town, and it's certainly not unreasonable to think he'd "go in as" a NYM (to the extent that such things are meaningful). With now six different teams on his resume (and maybe still more to come seeing as how he's probably been the Yanx best player this year) there's no one team that has the majority of his career but he does have the most games & PAs for the Mets (just barely over KC) as compared to any other team. Granted it's still just over 35% of his total career but of course every other team is less than that, all but KC substantially less. He also hit the most HRs as a Met, most RBIs, highest OPS (except for some half-season stops) and had his only Top-5 MVP placement. Whether he does or not has no bearing on my opinion regarding the retired number scenario (I'm against it) but Carlos with a NYM insignia on his HoF plaque's cap is not unpossible at all.

soupcan Jul 05 2016 07:43 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Welcome home... (I have a friend at the presser)

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 07:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

"Hi, I'm José, and these are my guns."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 05 2016 07:48 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Welcome home... (I have a friend at the presser) Is he wearing a track suit and a fedora?

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 07:50 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Not for nothing, but when facing the media and trying to swim upstream against a narrative of domestic violence, the ol' sleeveless tee is maybe not the best choice.

cooby Jul 05 2016 07:50 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: "Hi, I'm José, and these are my guns." If Jose and his guns still hit triples like he used to, I will invite him, his wife, and family to my house for a pool party

soupcan Jul 05 2016 07:51 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: soupcan wrote: Welcome home... (I have a friend at the presser) Is he wearing a track suit and a fedora? Works at NY1.

soupcan Jul 05 2016 07:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Not for nothing, but when facing the media and trying to swim upstream against a narrative of domestic violence, the ol' sleeveless tee is maybe not the best choice. I think you gotta cut him some slack here. The guy is either about to go work out or just finished.

G-Fafif Jul 05 2016 08:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose! Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 05 2016 08:08 PM

"It felt so real. First he won the batting title. Then he signed with the Marlins. Then he was with the Blue Jays and the Rockies and there was something about him being arrested and he was a free agent and nobody wanted him, but the Mets did, even though they had a shortstop with a funny name, and they told him he had to go to Brooklyn and Binghamton, but then suddenly he was back and he was wearing No. 7, which wasn't a sure thing, and he was gonna play third because David was out for the year and his career was in jeopardy. It was like he never left but also like he was never really here when I looked at this blurry digital picture of him holding a press conference in a tank top and a cap with Mr. Met on it. "Strange dream. Anyway, who're we playing tonight?"

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 08:08 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Not for nothing, but when facing the media and trying to swim upstream against a narrative of domestic violence, the ol' sleeveless tee is maybe not the best choice. I think you gotta cut him some slack here. The guy is either about to go work out or just finished. Oh, I certainly will. I just fear that there's a writer who will draw some reference to the popular-if-disturbing nickname for sleeveless tees, and un-necessary awkwardness, and yadda yadda.

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 08:19 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Arnaud tells ESPN that #18 is for Peyton Manning.

cooby Jul 05 2016 08:38 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I meant for the Strawman! [fimg=600:icy45z4c]https://kielcoloncancer.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/HBO-Real-Sports-Darryl-Strawberry.jpg[/fimg:icy45z4c]

cooby Jul 05 2016 08:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

holy heck, sorry thank you, whoever fixed that!

Ashie62 Jul 05 2016 09:24 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: Hell fans were ready to jettison d'Arnaud this spring for Plawecki. Now you're talking crazy talk. Ashie, anyhow. You rang? Mea Culpa on Plawecki

Zvon Jul 05 2016 10:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Not for nothing, but when facing the media and trying to swim upstream against a narrative of domestic violence, the ol' sleeveless tee is maybe not the best choice. I think you gotta cut him some slack here. The guy is either about to go work out or just finished. Oh, I certainly will. I just fear that there's a writer who will draw some reference to the popular-if-disturbing nickname for sleeveless tees, and un-necessary awkwardness, and yadda yadda. If those are tats of his wife and kids on his arms, I imagine his counsel suggested he let folks see em'.

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 10:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Has there been a bigger case in Met history of a wayward Met vet returning and his numerical successor deferring to give him the number off his back? [list][*]Staub didn't reclaim 4, letting Bob Bailor beat him to it in spring 1981, despite Bailor having virtually no equity in it.[/*:m] [*]Kingman went though spring training in 1981 in 5, only claiming 26 (I think) after Scott Holman failed to break camp with the team.[/*:m] [*]Seaver, of course, didn't need to bump anybody for 41 in 1983, because it was already on mothballs.[/*:m] [*]Mazzilli didn't reclaim 16, although Gooden reportedly offered it to him.[/*:m] [*]Jesse Orosco found 47 vacant when he returned, but then he didn't get to return at all, getting traded for Joe McEwing, and passing the number onto him.[/*:m][/list:u] None of them save Seaver had quite the legacy Reyes did the first time around, anyhow. I think the highest profile number reclamation was also #7, when Darryl Boston shed it in 1991 in deference to Hubie Brooks.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 06 2016 02:05 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

None of Jose's former Mets teammates are on the current active roster. The only 2016 Mets who were here in 2011 are David Wright and Lucas Duda. Since the end of last season, four Jose teammates from 2011 have left the club: Bobby Parnell, Daniel Murphy, Jon Niese, and Ruben Tejada.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 06 2016 02:37 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Staub wouldn't have wanted #4 during his second Mets tour. His preferred uni # was 10. Apparently, Duffy Dyer wasn't willing to give it up in 1972 or was never asked. So Rusty had to wait until Dyer was traded to switch from 4 to 10.

d'Kong76 Jul 06 2016 03:38 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

[fimg=500:wbzka3sl]http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/NYDN070616.jpg[/fimg:wbzka3sl]

Fman99 Jul 06 2016 04:23 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Daily News, keeping it classy as usual.

d'Kong76 Jul 06 2016 04:33 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Yeah, my first reaction was it's pretty mean spirited. I have no way of knowing but feel if it was a former Yankee star in a similar situation returning to the Bronx to start over they wouldn't have the balls to go with a similar cover.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 06 2016 04:44 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

From the Not Sayin'/Just Sayin' Department: I recall no such back cover for Aroldis Chapman.

Ashie62 Jul 06 2016 05:17 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: From the Not Sayin'/Just Sayin' Department: I recall no such back cover for Aroldis Chapman. Neither do I Maybe the MFY's are too pathetic to bash.

Ashie62 Jul 06 2016 05:20 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: My problem is some thing you read that "fans" said, you end up putting on folks here. I would beg you to stop. Wasn't that Steve's game? Always making an argument against something nobody said, and then under cross examination, confess it was somebody on WFAN he was actually fighting? why am I only allowed to reference people or things said here? Maybe think of my posts as contributing to a conversation rather than part of an inclusive discussion. It's not a fight. There aren't two sides. It's simply a "here's something that I've noticed in the conversation surrounding this Mets topic. It happens to not be true." Just think of it as the Big Bang Forum with lotsa Sheldons.

d'Kong76 Jul 06 2016 05:29 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD Jul 06 2016 05:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

With regard to the News back cover, I don't understand using text underscoring in a graphic design layout. It looks awful, and since they underscore the entire title and subtitle, it emphasizes nothing. At least use a lightning bolt, like in the "Bazinga!" graphic above.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 06 2016 05:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I agree about the underlining. Maybe they figured this cover didn't have much of a chance in the 2016 Tabloid Cover Derby anyway.

Frayed Knot Jul 06 2016 05:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I read (or at least started reading) that NYDN article. Basically it was one of those where you start out with the conclusion -- Met/sports fans are animals who would root for Hitler if he could hit .300 for you -- and then set about finding quotes from someone(s) who would confirm it. Might have been the only two quotes from sticking a mike in front of 75 faces, but those two become the basis of the piece.

Zvon Jul 06 2016 05:57 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Fman99 wrote: Daily News, keeping it classy as usual. The Post was no better. Back page tho. Hillary skates on the cover. [fimg=500]https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/fdfasaff.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=780[/fimg]

Zvon Jul 06 2016 06:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I didn't see this in any of the interview footage concerning Travis giving up 7 but I read it in an article today. When asked if Reyes offered d'Arnaud anything for the switch, Travis replied (appx) "That's something that will stay between Jose and I". So...

d'Kong76 Jul 06 2016 06:13 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

The Rolex that Jose bought me is between him and I. Ooops, look it has diamonds by all the numbers!

Zvon Jul 06 2016 07:43 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 wrote: The Rolex that Jose bought me is between him and I. Ooops, look it has diamonds by all the numbers! Trav should have just said WHATCHYUTALKINBOUTWILLIS? Cause his response makes it look like there definitely was a deal. You're right d'Arnaud, that should be kept between u & Jose. And you should have kept it that way.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 06 2016 07:45 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Travis probably figured it's best not to fuck around with Jose.

TransMonk Jul 07 2016 10:52 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 02:02 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Hah, I was just kidding about the Rolex.

Edgy MD Jul 08 2016 02:06 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Yeah, what a cliché. Get him a pinball machine or a barbecue or something.

Zvon Jul 08 2016 02:08 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I wish the media would just wait until they have the complete story. 1) So it was a gesture by lil d'. Very nice. 2) Reyes said to the press that he would try to show his appreciation with a gift. 3) Reyes did w/a watch (how cliché but also very nice). All very transparent, no solicitation involved. So why even try to spin it that way? Assholes.

Zvon Jul 08 2016 02:09 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, what a cliché. Get him a pinball machine or a barbecue or something. Ha. Believe it or not I hadn't read this before I posted that^.

Centerfield Jul 08 2016 02:14 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'd been away so yesterday was the first time I got to watch Jose since he's been back. I don't know if anyone else is feeling conflicted, but for me it's a real struggle. I loved Jose as a Met. Well, maybe right up until the last game, but whatever. I wanted to see him re-signed. And when I see him play I want to root for him, and cheer him. I mean, he looks like the guy I loved rooting for. And I thought I'd never see him in a Mets uniform again. But then I remind myself that Jose did very bad things. And sure, I still want him to do well. He's on the Mets. I want them to win. But I don't feel right just welcoming him back. And then I have to temper that with the fact that the charges were dropped and we don't really know what happened. And temper that with the fact that there are a lots of reasons this could be the case and we probably have a pretty good idea of what went down. And so I have to explain to my son why we don't chant the Jose song like we used to. But then I start wondering if I should temper the Bartolo love we have in our house. Sorry, no real point to this post. Just venting a bit that being a fan is not easy.

themetfairy Jul 08 2016 02:21 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I can't bring myself to root for him. He has tacitly admitted his actions. David Wright, who never throws anyone under the bus, commented, "I feel like what he did was awful, terrible. There’s just no other way around it." I can't root for a wife-beater. I don't care that his wife didn't press charges. I'm not judging the victim, but I am judging her assailant.

soupcan Jul 08 2016 02:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think that you'd have a hard time finding a professional athlete to cheer for if all of their personal lives were laid bare and made public for all to see. You root for the laundry.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 08 2016 02:35 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think religion instructs us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. (Not that I'm the least bit religious, but whatever. It's a good sentiment anyway.) I'll never have the affection for Jose that I once had, but I hope he plays well for the Mets, and more importantly, I hope he never does anything violent to his wife, or anyone else, ever again. It will be apparent to everyone whether or not he plays well, but unless some other incident becomes public, we'll never know the answer to the second part. He appears contrite. I hope he is. He's saying the right things. I hope he means them. He's in counseling. I hope it's working. But we'll likely never know for sure. This is not only an aspect of rooting for a sports team, but of dealing with human beings in general.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 08 2016 02:39 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

#ImWithGrimm

themetfairy Jul 08 2016 02:49 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: I think that you'd have a hard time finding a professional athlete to cheer for if all of their personal lives were laid bare and made public for all to see. Of course not. But when you are made specifically aware of someone's heinous acts, it's much harder to turn a blind eye to them. BTW, why is there so much love for Jose Reyes and so much hatred for Matt Harvey. I've had this discussion several times, often in person with some of you here. I have never seen any allegations that Harvey has ever acted abusively towards another human being. Why is being full of oneself more derision-worthy than beating a much smaller person?

TransMonk Jul 08 2016 02:53 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Agreed with Soupy and Grimm both. I don't love Jose...I never really have. I appreciated him during his first run, but he was never one of my favorite personalities on the team...which pretty much sums up my feelings about Harvey.

Ceetar Jul 08 2016 02:58 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

soupcan wrote: I think that you'd have a hard time finding a professional athlete to cheer for if all of their personal lives were laid bare and made public for all to see. You root for the laundry. sure, but leaving it in the shadows allows it to continue. The jock culture and the hero worship and the covering our eyes of things we don't want to see. it happens all the way down the line. Maybe if more professional athletes are held to task, if Baseball isn't shy about dragging the discretions into the light, (and I don't mean Harvey sleeping with two consenting women, or drinking a lot) maybe college athletes will start thinking twice about treating the women on campus as a perk of their scholarship and high school guys won't harass and abuse and chase away fellow female athletes and more middle school girls will stick with sports because they actually feel welcome.

soupcan Jul 08 2016 03:12 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm not leaving it in the shadows but at the same time, I'm not condemning him for it for the rest of his life. I am doing this because of the history that I personally have with him (in my mind of course). What he did - if he did what we all say he did and he says he did - was horrible and heinous, but again is it something that he cannot ever be forgiven for? Does he not get a second chance to prove he can be a better man? I'm choosing to believe that he is regretful, that he is attempting to atone for his actions and that he wants to be the guy we always thought he was. Honestly though - through these past three games he's played for the Mets, it has been harder than I thought to root for him unconditionally.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 08 2016 03:15 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

What kind of loaded question is that? It begins by assuming a point of view ("so much love for Jose Reyes") that nobody here has expressed, and then assumes wife-beating and general douchebaggery are apples and apples, AND that the standard of whether one likes a person or not is based on whether they've abused another person? But just to be clear I believe what Reyes did was reprehensible, AND I don't like Harvey because I think he's a dumb jock and a probably pain in the ass to work with.

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 03:18 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: #ImWithGrimm #MeToo

Edgy MD Jul 08 2016 03:23 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I don't root for the laundry, I feel confident in saying. Which is good, because some of the laundry has been ugly. I root for Jeff Wilpon. Love that guy.

seawolf17 Jul 08 2016 03:32 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think religion instructs us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. (Not that I'm the least bit religious, but whatever. It's a good sentiment anyway.) I'll never have the affection for Jose that I once had, but I hope he plays well for the Mets, and more importantly, I hope he never does anything violent to his wife, or anyone else, ever again. It will be apparent to everyone whether or not he plays well, but unless some other incident becomes public, we'll never know the answer to the second part. He appears contrite. I hope he is. He's saying the right things. I hope he means them. He's in counseling. I hope it's working. But we'll likely never know for sure. This is not only an aspect of rooting for a sports team, but of dealing with human beings in general. This, all of this.

themetfairy Jul 08 2016 04:02 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What kind of loaded question is that? It begins by assuming a point of view ("so much love for Jose Reyes") that nobody here has expressed, and then assumes wife-beating and general douchebaggery are apples and apples, AND that the standard of whether one likes a person or not is based on whether they've abused another person? But just to be clear I believe what Reyes did was reprehensible, AND I don't like Harvey because I think he's a dumb jock and a probably pain in the ass to work with. It's not that you have to like either. Nor are they apples and apples. But if we're allotting Shaefer points to behavior, abuse has to be worth more than simple jerkery. It seems to me that Harvey gets a disproportionate amount of hate around here for attitude than Reyes is getting for his actions.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 08 2016 04:11 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I think Reyes may be benefiting somewhat from nostalgia. If he had been here all along, would the fan reaction be different? It's hard to say.

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 04:27 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

There's probably some ex-Met-star goodwill going on with some. Here there seems to be two camps of a potential three. The third being the standing ovation crowd which we've seen none of.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 08 2016 04:28 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Certainly the Mets would know better than most clubs what they were getting from Reyes, character-wise. Of course the reason he's here is the low, low price.

TransMonk Jul 08 2016 04:54 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

For me, personally (and I don't think or expect anyone should feel this way), I'm willing to give Reyes the second chance. What he did was horrible and I could never think in reacting to any situation in that manner myself. He has to own that reaction and understand that he can never take it back. However, I do believe that he needs to have some path forward. He has served his MLB suspension, the criminal charges were dropped (and the reason for that can be debated, but the true facts on why are unknown to anyone but Reyes' family and the PD working the case) and he is still with his wife and family today. I can only take him at his word that he is sorry for what he did and that he is continually working on being a better husband, father and man. As far as his baseball career is concerned, I believe that the Mets were the best place he could have landed. I think the criticism that has been laid at his feet by the NY media and fans is good for him in order to own up to what he did. However, being back in a familiar place where he did some (most) of his best professional work hopefully motivates him to be that better man. I'm hoping that being in a pennant race where he can contribute gives a better purpose to his life so that he can share in those successes with his family. I said above that I was never a big fan of Reyes during his first tour. I appreciated the excitement he brought to the team and the stats on the back of his card, but as a player, he always came off as a "hot dog" and someone whose attitude toward playing presented itself as just a bit better than the player he actually was. His last at-bat as a Met in 2011 is a great example of this. I guess I'm hoping that this whole saga has humbled him a bit. I'm hoping he understands that he needs to prove himself (something I'm not sure he needed to do before). So from that perspective, I am rooting for him. I'm hoping that success in his professional career can signal growth and change for him as a person. YMMV

themetfairy Jul 08 2016 04:58 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

You're a terrible person TM! J/K While my mileage varies, I appreciate how you arrived at your conclusion.

Edgy MD Jul 08 2016 05:34 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

The thing is, if this is really about abused spouses, there's a strong argument against the notion that folks who have an abuse history should be treated as beyond the pale as far as employees. It creates a huge conflict for a victim spouse in an abuse situation with regard to seeking help. [list:35uz2mbu][*:35uz2mbu]It can cut the victim off from financial support and benefits.[/*:m:35uz2mbu] [*:35uz2mbu]It can cut the victim's children off from support and benefits.[/*:m:35uz2mbu] [*:35uz2mbu]It consigns the perpetrator to the home for many more hours of the week, making the victim-spouse that much more vulnerable.[/*:m:35uz2mbu] [*:35uz2mbu]It deepens the perpetrator's animus toward the spouse and society.[/*:m:35uz2mbu] [*:35uz2mbu]It separates the perpetrator from counseling provided through employee assistance programs.[/*:m:35uz2mbu] [*:35uz2mbu]It lifts from perpetrator the challenge of having to put on his or her best face eight hours a day, which is meaningful practice in getting one's act together domestically.[/*:m:35uz2mbu][/list:u:35uz2mbu] All that said, even if there's a strong argument against making such persons unemployable, it gets weighed against whether you want to be one doing the employing — to be associated with whatever the person is, whether that makes you an enabler, or feel like one, or be seen as one, whether you can be seen as symbolically endorsing the person's past (and possibly future) behavior to the outside world. Whatever the answer is, if you buy it, you own it. So the Mets, going in with their eyes open, owe it to themselves and everybody to do what they can to bring out José's best going forward, because it will be nearly impossible to distance or absolve themselves from any future assaults. And I hope they discussed his employment with some of the players, because they have wives too. And who he is or is not touches the guys who play and dress with him and have his back.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 08 2016 05:40 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'll tell you something else: The Mets re-signing of Reyes is another sign that this is more Jeff's and less Fred's team. eff Wilpon would have no part of this version of Jose Reyes. Jeff ain't taking the side of the Leigh Castergines, I'll tell you that.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jul 11 2016 02:17 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

He's hit better than I expected so far.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 11 2016 03:07 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Made a last-minute move to score tickets for today, and there was serious chanting action going on prior to the home runs. And plenty of folks in Reyes jerseys... with what seemed like a lot more young women in the gear than men.

Edgy MD Jul 11 2016 12:26 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Funny that he's swinging a hot bat, and our offense has gone south. I guess that happens when he arrives and Céspedes promptly gets hurt, and he also displaces Flores in the lineup. Reyes has taken over Granderson's solo-homerun-specialist role.

TransMonk Aug 30 2016 03:57 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I've realized two somewhat conflicting things over the past two weeks: 1. I forgot how exciting Reyes is to watch. It helps that he is definitely a catalyst at the top of the lineup and that he has been putting up better numbers than most expected, but the effect of a productive lead off hitter is very noticeable. 2. I do feel slightly more guilty than I thought I would in rooting for him. I stand by all that I posted in this thread last month, but I'd be lying if I said my appreciation for what he provides to the team I love is not soured by his personal conduct last year. I read this article in the Times over the weekend. The situation is not apples-to-apples, but I think it is a decent idea (even if it comes from a Cubs fan). While there is still no excuse for what Jose did, finding a way to turn his production into a positive step for the future makes sense to me as BOTH a Mets fan and an opponent of domestic violence. I pledge to donate $10 for each run Reyes scores this season to Safe Horizon. I will do the same in 2017 if his option is picked up.

themetfairy Aug 31 2016 01:37 AM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I just can't get into rooting for him. But that's a cool idea from that Cubs fan!

Mets Guy in Michigan Aug 31 2016 08:59 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

I'm conflicted by a lot of this. Domestic violence is a terrible thing. Drinking and driving is a terrible thing. Assault of anyone is a terrible thing. We're celebrating the 1986 Mets all season and four members of that team were arrested for fighting with police at a bar after a night of heavy drinking. We don't have any problems cheering them. Darryl Strawberry was arrested multiple times. Dwight Gooden has been arrested multiple times, including for assaulting his girlfriend. They were cheered at the reunion. They are both inducted in our team Hall of Fame, an honor bestowed, I believe, after their arrests. Reyes is accused of doing a terrible thing. We don't know for sure, but he appears to have reconciled with the alleged victim. He has made public apologies. The team has said he is getting counseling. We have no evidence of other behavior like this from him. After the collision at the plate the other night, I saw someone posted something like "Now he knows what it's like to be slammed to the ground" or something along those lines. Wow. My heart says that people make mistakes, even bad mistakes. And when they seek sincere forgiveness and there doesn't appear to be a pattern of continuing mistakes, I'm inclined to extend a hand. I wasn't in favor of bringing him back, but I was wrong about that. I don't have a problem cheering for him as long as this appears to be something that is not a continuing issue. Where am I wrong?

seawolf17 Aug 31 2016 09:00 PM Re: Jose Jose No Jose!

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: I don't have a problem cheering for him as long as this appears to be something that is not a continuing issue. Where am I wrong? This. I'm honestly enjoying having him back, as conflicted as I am.