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Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons
Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 09:07 AM |
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Joel Sherman in the New York Post says that the Braves may trade Andrelton Simmons:
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Ceetar Nov 12 2015 09:08 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Supposedly the price is at least deGrom or Harvey so he's not _really_ available and is as worth talking about as like, Tulo last offseason.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 09:11 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
The initial asking price may turn out to be higher than what Atlanta might eventually accept.
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Ceetar Nov 12 2015 09:16 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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this is true of every single player in the majors though.
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MFS62 Nov 12 2015 09:17 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
If he's that good, why are they trading him? If they have someone in the minors who they think is better, why not go for that guy? The price might be cheaper, since that player hasn't proven himself in the majors yet.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 09:19 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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So then... nobody is "worth talking about"? A forum that doesn't talk about things would quickly become as pointless as your initial reply.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 09:20 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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Why would the Braves have a lower asking price for the guy they want to keep than for the guy they want to trade?
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Ceetar Nov 12 2015 09:22 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Actually my initial reply pointed out what they're actually asking for.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 09:29 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
In the very first paragraph, it says, "the Braves have let clubs know they would be willing to discuss Andrelton Simmons".
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Nymr83 Nov 12 2015 09:31 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I can't decide if Simmons is Ozzie Smith or Rey Ordonez, he's probably something in between, but do you really want that bat in a lineup that has greatly struggled at times to score runs? and at the cost of a legit prospect or two?
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Centerfield Nov 12 2015 09:32 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I think we can surmise that Simmons is available since the article states that the Braves have let clubs know that he is available.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 12 2015 09:44 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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read the rest at: http://nypost.com/2015/11/12/braves-mak ... -involved/
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TransMonk Nov 12 2015 09:58 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I believe the Mets just released their year end Top 10 prospect list and it had 4 shortstops in it:
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Centerfield Nov 12 2015 10:01 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I swear that is a different article than the one I read 15 minutes ago.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 10:04 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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I agree. I don't blame them for asking, but the answer has to be no.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 10:06 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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And yes, the lead paragraph changed after I initially posted the link:
You see, I tried to be ethical and post a link instead of copying the article, and it just led to confusion. Next time I'll copy and paste instead.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 12 2015 10:06 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Does this mean that the Braves think Noah's not as good as Jake or Matt?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2015 10:07 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I wish we as a forum could just discuss the guy without first deciding which papers are telling lies and which "rumors" are true, and apply some perspective.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 12 2015 10:07 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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Two sentences is fair use, no?
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2015 10:12 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I guess so. And maybe I should have done that. But if these articles are going to continue to be revised, there's still a chance that confusion will result.
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Centerfield Nov 12 2015 10:15 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Yes. In one version they talked about asking for Plawecki. In the next, it was deGrom!
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 12 2015 10:16 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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The article states that Mets officials inquired "Thursday morning" so it must be a very recent development.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2015 12:51 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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5 years/53 for his peak years is certainly NOT huge for a guy whose glove-- a la Peak Lagares-- makes him Murphy-plus in terms of value even in an offensive down year. In a year when he runs into a few/gets some batted-ball luck? Like 2013, he's close to MVP-caliber in terms of value. He's so good with the glove, it's like buying a Familia (and any other groundball pitcher on the roster) upgrade with your shortstop. And he's 26. The only reason they're moving him is because they know they can ask for and get a lot, and buy a little more ammo/time for the rebuild they're doing. Anything short of our so-called Big Four should be open to discussion.
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Edgy MD Nov 12 2015 12:59 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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He's got a lot in common with Lagares, which might make a good starting place for a trade package. I don't think that top 10 list above is published by the Mets, so much as MLB.com, but I tend to agree with the idea of sticking with what the team has while their assets are growing at that position. The problem, of course, with that attitude is that it butts up against the now-is-our-window-of-opportunity attitude. I have little knowledge whatsoever of this Milton Ramos character. Definitely sounds more like a catcher. And beyond that, he sounds more like a Minnesota Twin.
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Centerfield Nov 12 2015 03:03 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I was going to write that Simmons was not worth his contract. That we'd be paying $53 million for a modern day Ordonez. But then I figured I should look up his stats.
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HahnSolo Nov 12 2015 06:33 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
So they asked for deGrom and settled on Erick Aybar.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 12 2015 06:41 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Yeah, so I guess he was available.
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Nymr83 Nov 12 2015 07:22 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Glad we didn't bite. Good deal for the braves
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2015 08:06 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
This isn't going to help the Braves beat us any more often, at least not next year, I would think.
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Centerfield Nov 12 2015 08:25 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Trades like this show me that I have not a clue how to be a major league GM.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2015 08:51 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I'm thinking that any "talk" they had with the Mets on this was along the lines of, "The price is $1 million... but for YOU, old friend, we'll knock that down to $6 million."
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Ceetar Nov 13 2015 08:42 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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yup. mea culpa I guess. But it definitely seems like he wasn't really available to the Mets. So this is probably good for the Mets, at least in 2016. More holes to shoot singles by in the Atlanta infield.
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Centerfield Nov 13 2015 08:56 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I have to tell you. I'm still just amazed by this deal. I don't think I've ever underestimated a player's value as much as this.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 13 2015 09:02 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
I think part of the issue is defensive valuation.
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Ceetar Nov 13 2015 09:15 AM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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Well, Tejada is actually better at the plate. Fangraphs has him at wRC+ of 95 (same as Flores) for 2015. Simmons is 82. League average for SS is 85. Tejada's averagish, maybe a tick above, with the glove. Simmons is tops, but hell, if you can't score any runs it doesn't matter how many you prevent. Seems crazy to me too. fwiw, checkout the inside edge defense numbers for Simmons vs Tejada and Flores. Surprises me how fast Tejada drops off, range wise. [url]http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=3&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=10847,5519,5827 There were 1359 balls deemed routine, that over 90% of them are turned into outs. Simmons made them into outs roughly 1350 of them. Of all the plays over the entire season, roughly once a month Simmons might miss a routine play. That's of all the weird hops and quick runners.
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Frayed Knot Nov 13 2015 01:22 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
Not knowing much about the prospects involved I'm not really sure what to think of this deal other than the obvious of it being another deal where the Braves are looking forward to a payoff about when their new suburban stadium is ready in two years.
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Edgy MD Nov 13 2015 03:35 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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Well, sure it does, accepting for the moment that we're exaggerating on both sides of the equation. The guy is pretty consistently a 3-bWAR man on defense. In fact, in his four seasons, he's put up 2.4 (in 49 games), 5.4 (in 157), 3.9 (146), and 3.5 (147). Not only are those numbers not seen since Rey's heyday, Ordóñez was much more volatile from season to season. You'd need eight years of healthy Rey-O to get four seasons like that, and the Mets never had no eight years of healthy Rey-O. Depending on how much faith you have in baseball-reference's defensive numbers, that's exactly the guy you run out there even if he's given you a zero-win, replacement-level bat. And as wanting as his offense has been, he been giving them more than a zero.
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Ceetar Nov 13 2015 03:45 PM Re: Let's talk about Andrelton Simmons |
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Well yeah, exaggeration. Actually his bat is like, 18% lower than average and below replacement level. A lot depends on how much stock you make in defensive metrics and the related valuation of those metrics. He's certainly a vacuum, but does is that really worth 3 wins? maybe. It's certainly not break the bank though, imo, and from a Mets standpoint I'd rather the scales be a little more on the offense side given their high K pitchers.
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