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Can Heyward Play Center?

Ceetar Dec 08 2015 02:27 PM

For Heyward to _really_ be worth the Mets going after him, he'd probably have to play center. [url]http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jason-heyward-as-a-center-fielder/ August Fagerstrom suggests we shouldn't worry about it, he'd probably still be good there.

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 02:42 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Can Sterlingpon Play Payward?

Ceetar Dec 08 2015 02:43 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: Can Sterlingpon Play Payward? probably.

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 02:45 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Blinders on, Captain!

Gwreck Dec 08 2015 03:38 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I think it's also key to remember as well that the Mets don't need to envision Heyward as a long-term centerfielder if they sign him; they need him to play there regularly for 2 years. When Granderson's contract is up, he can move back to right field.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2015 03:42 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Yeah, that would certainly seem like the way they would likely play it. And they can shift him to a corner for late inning defense while bringing in Laggy.

Ceetar Dec 08 2015 03:49 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Gwreck wrote: I think it's also key to remember as well that the Mets don't need to envision Heyward as a long-term centerfielder if they sign him; they need him to play there regularly for 2 years. When Granderson's contract is up, he can move back to right field. Then they'd have to replace him in center, while downgrading offense in right. That's not the ideal situation.

dgwphotography Dec 08 2015 03:54 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I read the subject line, and immediately thought of Spencer Haywood. I'm old.

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 04:29 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I know this all fun and gigglely, but he's not on team paydar.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2015 04:50 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Ceetar wrote: Gwreck wrote: I think it's also key to remember as well that the Mets don't need to envision Heyward as a long-term centerfielder if they sign him; they need him to play there regularly for 2 years. When Granderson's contract is up, he can move back to right field. Then they'd have to replace him in center, while downgrading offense in right. That's not the ideal situation. I don't think Heyward as a downgrade from Grandy is necessarily true now, let alone 2 years from now. Would live to see Heyward in blue & orange next year, but there's zero chance of that happening, yall.

Gwreck Dec 08 2015 05:37 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I don't mean to sound dense here, but why does everybody think that the Mets won't acquire him? -Do we think that the baseball executives aren't smart enough to realize this is the right move? -Or is it that we're still in a "believe it when we see it" mode with respect to how much money the Wilpons actually will spend?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2015 05:44 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Gwreck wrote: I don't mean to sound dense here, but why does everybody think that the Mets won't acquire him? -Do we think that the baseball executives aren't smart enough to realize this is the right move? -Or is it that we're still in a "believe it when we see it" mode with respect to how much money the Wilpons actually will spend? For me, I guess more #2 than #1. I'm sure the execs know Heyward ticks a bunch of the boxes of the 'stuff we need' checklist, but I don't think they will go >$200M to get it. I think with the great pitching staff, they're content to lay a little low, and kinda figure out what we need in July again like last year. Edit: Plus, I think our 'big get' this year is gonna be Zobrist and both are not happening, like at all, at all.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 08 2015 05:53 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Also, I think they've explicitly said that their goal for the outfield is to get someone who can platoon with Juan Lagares. I guess things can change if the market doesn't develop as expected, but all indications are that the Mets don't plan to pursue Heyward at all.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2015 06:06 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Mets are maybe a little commitment averse and don't wanna hook with anyone for a long time. They just wanna pick up like they're on Tinder - easy breezy, playoffs & chill, 'cab fare's on the table by the door, honey'. (honey = Yoenis)

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 07:59 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Gwreck wrote: -Or is it that we're still in a "believe it when we see it" mode with respect to how much money the Wilpons actually will spend? It's always gonna be about money until they prove allegiance to the team they own, and change how they run things. They just sold an office building in Chicago for a huge profit. But they're broke. *clink*

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 08:29 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

But hey, we got a bigger screen tv last year and Coca- Cola upgrade over Pepsi this year... that's something.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2015 08:52 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

The National League championship is pretty good, though.

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 09:06 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I guess.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2015 09:13 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: I guess. Cheer up, Caspar. It's going to be OK.

d'Kong76 Dec 08 2015 09:24 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

It's Kasper, but thanks...

themetfairy Dec 08 2015 09:49 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

With a K for strikeouts (like Zack Wheeler).

Zvon Dec 09 2015 01:58 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

When I close my eyes and think about Heyward, I see this memory. So yea.

Ceetar Dec 09 2015 08:25 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I tend to agree that Zobrist was a better fit than Heyward, particularly because the primary deficit we're talking about is offense. Heyward just doesn't seem worth what he's going to get. I'd rather Justin Upton, who's a much better hitter, as long as we're talking outfielders. But seeming like Fowler is the best fit for the Mets of those three outfielders.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 09 2015 08:52 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Ceetar wrote: I tend to agree that Zobrist was a better fit than Heyward, particularly because the primary deficit we're talking about is offense. Heyward just doesn't seem worth what he's going to get. I'd rather Justin Upton, who's a much better hitter, as long as we're talking outfielders. AHEM. Career wRC+ average: Heyward-- 118 Upton-- 121 OPS+, career: Heyward-- 114 Upton-- 120 Heyward's apparently a superior baserunner, too (4.4 BsR career average to Upton's 3.4, 77% steal rate to Upton's 71%). So offensive value-wise, the matchup's not exactly a walkover. (Never mind the fact that Upton's career trends seem to be beginning their decline, while Hayward is holding steady/improving.)

Ceetar Dec 09 2015 09:03 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Depends if you think Upton's on the decline I guess. Personally I don't think so, but it's not like I'm super enthused about Upton over Heyward, but if it's for a shorter deal and we're only talking corner? probably. Heyward had some batted ball luck last year and was still not as good as Upton's worst year in 4 and Jason's best year was his rookie year so technically everything is decline since then. His K rates have dropped, but may have leveled out the last two yaers Maybe Petco is suppressing offense more than these park-adjusted stats account for?

metsmarathon Dec 09 2015 10:18 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

upton has more pop, but heyward has a higher average, and seems to currently be capable of sustaining a higher obp. both project (using steamer projections on fangraphs) to be virtually identical in terms of aggregate offensive production next season, and heyward is younger. upton is not a good defensive left fielder and has never played centerfield in the majors. heyward is a great defensive outfielder with tremendous range who can play centerfield, and apparently quite well in a small sample size. I expect both to get comparable deals this winter. I expect heyward to be a better value. (and to be a far better value than cespedes) of the top outfield candidates, heyward is also the best fit for the mets. I really hope we can get him.

Centerfield Dec 09 2015 10:20 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I'd be happy with any of the three. But my preference order is Heyward, then Upton, then Cespedes.

Centerfield Dec 09 2015 10:38 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

The latest buzz is that the Cubs are in on Heyward. They've already had a good winter in picking up Lackey and Zobrist. If they add Heyward to that team that won 97 games....

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2015 12:22 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Jon Heyman wrote: folks in lobby are suggesting 10-yr deal for jason heyward is very possible #cubs #cardinals #giants #angels #mystery team

Ceetar Dec 09 2015 12:34 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Jon Heyman wrote: folks in lobby are suggesting 10-yr deal for jason heyward is very possible #cubs #cardinals #giants #angels #mystery team "folks in lobby"? Fuck, if that's gonna start being a source I'm going down to Nashville (or is it DC next year?) and just make up crap in the lobby.

Zvon Dec 09 2015 04:18 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Centerfield wrote: The latest buzz is that the Cubs are in on Heyward. They've already had a good winter in picking up Lackey and Zobrist. If they add Heyward to that team that won 97 games.... You can't let that happen Sandy. Go get Heyward.

Centerfield Dec 10 2015 05:03 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Latest buzz is that the Nats are in on Heyward too. If the Cubs and Nats both get him we're in serious trouble.

d'Kong76 Dec 10 2015 05:52 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Guess the Mets just don't care who gets better by spending.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 06:45 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

More news from the lobby: Mets not the mystery team in pursuit of Heyward, happy enough with moves made thus far. Plus, they got Cuddyer last year.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 10:44 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I guess of the three teams pursuing Heyward, it would be best if he went back to St. Louis. I want no part of him on Washington, and the Cubs are already better than the team we saw in October. Of course that the beat writers having narrowed it to these three clubs means nothing. Anaheim could swoop in any time I guess.

Nymr83 Dec 11 2015 11:56 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: More news from the lobby: Mets not the mystery team in pursuit of Heyward, happy enough with moves made thus far. Plus, they got Cuddyer last year. the terrible signing that keeps on giving!

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2015 12:15 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Cubs got him, sez internet.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 12:19 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Yupİ, internet just exploded. Jeez.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2015 12:25 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

That is a decidedly better (on paper) Cubs team than we thrashed in the playoffs. Way better defensively and tougher to whiff, too.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 12:26 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Guess some teams see an opportunity and run with it.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 12:27 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

And better pitching. Cubs are not done yet. Still looking for a starter. You have to tip your hat to Epstein. He really knows how to build a winner. Develop solid homegrown players. When they are ready, surround them with elite talent.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 12:33 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: Guess some teams see an opportunity and run with it. Don't worry Kase. We'll get Heyward. Someday he'll be a 35 year old washed up player and we'll pounce then.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 12:37 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Eh, fuck it... maybe the Mets will win another pennant or two before I'm put out to pasture.

Gwreck Dec 11 2015 12:38 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Wow, how strange: National League Team in one of the very largest media markets in the country makes playoffs after five consecutive losing seasons. Plays well, but falls short of championship. Goes out, adds significant players in free agency in order to improve team. Oh, wait. Did I say strange? There's nothing strange about that at all.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 01:18 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Flushing all the pitching down the toilet with no improvements made. They're not going to be Mets forever. I can't believe more people aren't outraged.

Ceetar Dec 11 2015 01:19 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: Flushing all the pitching down the toilet with no improvements made. They're not going to be Mets forever. I can't believe more people aren't outraged. A. They are better. B. The Nationals are worse. C. Heyward isn't that good. D. There are other players. E. It's December, not April.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 01:22 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Gwreck wrote: Wow, how strange: National League Team in one of the very largest media markets in the country makes playoffs after five consecutive losing seasons. Plays well, but falls short of championship. Goes out, adds significant players in free agency in order to improve team. Oh, wait. Did I say strange? There's nothing strange about that at all. The Cubs are significantly better than they were in October. The Mets have taken a big step back. Earlier Vic Sage posted that the Mets needed Zobrist and Heyward. Looks like the Cubs were the only team listening.

MFS62 Dec 11 2015 01:27 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Centerfield wrote: Earlier Vic Sage posted that the Mets needed Zobrist and Heyward. Looks like the Cubs were the only team listening. Are we sure Vic isn't really Theo Epstein? Has anyone ever seen them together in the same room? Just wondering. Anyhow, in answer to the thread title's question, if the final deal is for the $200 million anticipated by the press, he can play anywhere he wants. Later

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 01:29 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

And now the Cardinals, having lost a key hitter in their lineup, and turning to players who can maybe platoon in the outfield like Will Venable. Wait, that's not true. That would be stupid. Cards are said to be in on Alex Gordon, looking to replace the hole in their lineup.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 01:42 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Ceetar wrote: A. They are better. B. The Nationals are worse. C. Heyward isn't that good. D. There are other players. E. It's December, not April. I hope that orange and blue lollipop lasts all winter and you can bring it to spring training. Centerfield wrote: The Cubs are significantly better than they were in October. The Mets have taken a big step back. This is clear thinking, maybe two big steps back... and with no apparent plan to do anything significant on the horizon. I wouldn't be surprised if they just shut down things until mid-January.

Ceetar Dec 11 2015 01:51 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: A. They are better. B. The Nationals are worse. C. Heyward isn't that good. D. There are other players. E. It's December, not April. I hope that orange and blue lollipop lasts all winter and you can bring it to spring training. Centerfield wrote: The Cubs are significantly better than they were in October. The Mets have taken a big step back. This is clear thinking, maybe two big steps back... and with no apparent plan to do anything significant on the horizon. I wouldn't be surprised if they just shut down things until mid-January. It's not a lollipop it's a pennant and it's delicious. Most teams are relatively quiet between mid Dec and mid-Jan, but there's really no indication the Mets are done, or have taken a step back. Especially in relation to the Nats.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 02:11 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

d'Kong76 wrote: I can't believe more people aren't outraged. I've been saying it over and over and I still can't believe it. This is the real shocker for me. The Wilpons falling through, while disappointing, was always a strong possibility. It's just crazy that so many are ok with this. You, me, Vic, Gwreck. Batmags has been there for years. BG agrees in his own calm way. Everyone else seems like they're just "eh, whatevers".

dgwphotography Dec 11 2015 02:14 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Centerfield wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I can't believe more people aren't outraged. I've been saying it over and over and I still can't believe it. This is the real shocker for me. The Wilpons falling through, while disappointing, was always a strong possibility. It's just crazy that so many are ok with this. You, me, Vic, Gwreck. Batmags has been there for years. BG agrees in his own calm way. Everyone else seems like they're just "eh, whatevers". I have never been "eh, whatevers" when it comes to these cheap, lying bastards. It's a long winter - if nothing else gets done by spring training, like last year, then I will bitch and moan like I did a year ago.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 02:17 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

dgwphotography wrote: Centerfield wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I can't believe more people aren't outraged. I've been saying it over and over and I still can't believe it. This is the real shocker for me. The Wilpons falling through, while disappointing, was always a strong possibility. It's just crazy that so many are ok with this. You, me, Vic, Gwreck. Batmags has been there for years. BG agrees in his own calm way. Everyone else seems like they're just "eh, whatevers". I have never been "eh, whatevers" when it comes to these cheap, lying bastards. It's a long winter - if nothing else gets done by spring training, like last year, then I will bitch and moan like I did a year ago. Yay! PAW Membership up to 7!

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2015 02:18 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I'm newer to it than some, but the Madoff excuse has expired and you're selling office buildings for huge profits but cheaping out on our ballclub. No point going on about it in the Heyward thread.

metsmarathon Dec 11 2015 02:25 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

i'll take a measured approach to my discontent with heyward going to the cubs. for now. it's a hefty price to pay, but he's probably worth it, and would have fit rather well here. i'm still willing to see how the rest of the offseason pans out. i was disappointed we didnt get zobrist, but am happier that we ended up with walker. (and confused by cabrera...) what is our plan b for this one?

seawolf17 Dec 11 2015 02:55 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Heyward is going to hit 70 home runs a year in Wrigley. Crikey.

bmfc1 Dec 11 2015 03:21 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I'm with d'Kong76. While the season doesn't start tomorrow, Heyward was the biggest prize. If the Mets sign Cespedes, or perhaps Span, + Colon + Blevins + a right RP, they'll be fine but it's disappointing that they didn't even make an effort here (because they would have told us if they did, as they did with Zobrist).

86-Dreamer Dec 11 2015 03:56 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Heyward for 8 years at 23 million/yr makes me think that the 4 years older Cespedes may have trouble getting a 5 year deal. The Mets have never been closer to "one player away" status than they are now, and Cespedes is that one player. Come on Wilpons - 4 years, $100 million and you can start printing those playoff tickets....

Edgy MD Dec 11 2015 04:18 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Best fans in beisbol. Not pleasant for work, or anywhere.

Rockin' Doc Dec 11 2015 08:24 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Gwreck wrote: Wow, how strange: National League Team in one of the very largest media markets in the country makes playoffs after five consecutive losing seasons. Plays well, but falls short of championship. Goes out, adds significant players in free agency in order to improve team. Oh, wait. Did I say strange? There's nothing strange about that at all. It just seems strange to because we're Mets fans. The Cubs are actively spending money to improve their team and build on the momentum of their recent playoff apperance. They are doing what any raional Mets fan would wish of our front office and ownership.

Rockin' Doc Dec 11 2015 08:27 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Ceetar wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Flushing all the pitching down the toilet with no improvements made. They're not going to be Mets forever. I can't believe more people aren't outraged. A. They are better. B. The Nationals are worse. C. Heyward isn't that good. D. There are other players. E. It's December, not April. Bartender, I'd like a double of whatever Ceetar is drinking.

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 08:28 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Sounds like RD is a card-carrying member of PAW. Welcome to the club good doctor.

Rockin' Doc Dec 11 2015 08:40 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I enjoyed the late season surge and the post season run, but I don't have any faith in the Mets ownership to invest in the team to make the improvements necessary for the Mets to build upon the success of last 2015. I have plenty of faith in Alderson's abilities, but I feel he is generally working with one hand fiscally tied behind his back. I just don't have the energy to get as worked up over it as some of our more passionate members.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2015 10:03 PM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

In all fairness, it seems that Heyward (like Zobrist is rumored to have done) left money on the table to come to Chicago. Various sources claim both the Cards and Nats offered a significant amount more--$200 or so-- than Chicago did; it likely would have taken more than that to bring him east. They do seem to be taking on Destination Team status pretty quickly. Checking in would have been nice.

Vic Sage Dec 12 2015 10:22 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

Earlier Vic Sage posted that the Mets needed Zobrist and Heyward. Looks like the Cubs were the only team listening You didn't have to be Theo Epstein to have looked at this team, looked at the available players, and make that call. Any Tony voter with a keyboard could've typed it (well, maybe not any Tony voter...) -- and i can't believe our solid front-office wouldn't have had that as Plan A, if they had the resources. But they clearly didn't. The problem, of course, is that now people will focus on Cespedes, his price will go up even more, so we're going to have to vastly overpay for a guy who, despite an amazing 6-week stretch, has NO control of the strike zone, and is over 30 (based on a Cuban birth certificate). He's a free-swinging hacker who's going to age fast, so i could understand why Sandy may not want to have targeted him, but at this point, he's the best option available. His power is legit, his arm and baserunning are excellent, and despite a few bonehead plays in CF, he did pretty well there overall. I think it'll take at least 6 years (maybe 7) and at least $25m/yr to get him. I would've preferred 8-10 years to a 26-year old Heyward at $20-22m, but that ship has sailed, and the Cubs are sailing it. Now we need Cespedes just to keep pace but i just don't think Sandy sees him as that kind of player, even if he weren't shackled by the Pons.

d'Kong76 Dec 12 2015 10:44 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

I don't recall where right now, but there have been a few rumblings that Cespedes isn't going to get the years originally predicted. He may be older than advertised, his overall numbers aren't elite, and let's face it anyone who really watched-watched has to suspect his drive and desire some nights. We'll see.

metsmarathon Dec 12 2015 11:45 AM Re: Can Heyward Play Center?

It's possible that our plan is to wait out the market and watch cespedes' value tumble until to better suits our interests. And if that's true and if it works out for us, then it will have been well played. And if not, it may well be a fucking disaster.