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Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Centerfield Dec 09 2015 04:00 PM

I like him a lot. One of my favorite Mets. I don't know how good he actually is or will be any more. I think he had a pretty crappy ERA sometime mid-season before rebounding at the end. I'm hoping they can get him back cheap purely on fun factor. Also I heard he's a great mentor for the pitchers. But for the 5th starter, we have Montero, Verrett and also the kid Gsellman in the minors. So lots of options there. Plus Wheeler comes back mid-season. I think money is probably better spent in the OF or bullpen, but I'd like to see Bartolo back.

Nymr83 Dec 09 2015 04:04 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I think someone who is desperate for 200 innings even if they are barely above replacement level gives him a little more cash and yhe Mets justifiably pass since that level of pitching isn't worth more than a minimum flier right now.

Ceetar Dec 09 2015 04:09 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

pass. He's not actually good, though he has his moments, and I don't want to sign a guy just because he's fun. He's also a year older. There must be someone else we can grab to eat some innings if not just go internal, though I like the depth of having another veteran guy.

Centerfield Dec 09 2015 04:09 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

What's Dillon Gee up to these days?

Zvon Dec 09 2015 04:15 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I love that fat fucker. ^said with utmost respect.

Vic Sage Dec 09 2015 04:16 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Colon showed he could work well out of the pen. For the right price, i'm ok with bringing him back, even as a 5th starter until Wheeler returns, then into the pen. plus he's got all those intangibles folks are always talking about. But he looks pretty tangible to me.

TransMonk Dec 09 2015 04:36 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

More wins than any of our other starters over the past two years...and it's not really even close. I actually prefer him to Niese, assuming Wheeler's recovery is not delayed.

Centerfield Dec 09 2015 04:38 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I guess we should also consider that Wheeler may not be any good next year. Sometimes it takes 2 years to get it back. Parnell certainly sucked.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2015 07:28 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I'm kinda shocked we got as much from him as we did.

d'Kong76 Dec 09 2015 07:43 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Tio Bartolo in the pen in 2016... he's clubhouse gold.

Rockin' Doc Dec 09 2015 08:57 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I like Bartolo. He's fun and he's proven his willingness to do whatever he can to help the team. He can eat innings as a starter, pitch out of the pen, and I truly think he can have a very positive influence on the young starting pitchers. He has reinvented himself from a power pitcher to a crafty pitcher living off of control and movement. I suspect that the money it will take to retain him will be too high to justify keeping him around.

MFS62 Dec 09 2015 10:09 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Of curse I want him back. He was my boyhood idol. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 09 2015 10:30 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm kinda shocked we got as much from him as we did. YOU SHUT YOUR MEATHOLE, MEATHOLE. 5+ fWAR over the last two years; willingness/ability to pitch from the bullpen; mentoring and general goodvibes en Espanol; big fuggin' bat. Short of some not-so-family-friendly party options, the most fun you can have these days for $5-8M on a baseball field.

cooby classic Dec 10 2015 07:52 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Zvon wrote: I love that fat fucker. ^said with utmost respect. My feeling exactly

Lefty Specialist Dec 10 2015 07:56 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Yeah, it's a perfect match. I'm not sure how good Wheeler will be when he gets back, and if Bartolo can do next year what he did this year, that's all they need. Throw in a gift card to McDonald's and you're done.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 10 2015 08:30 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

GET IT DONE, SANDY SECOND-STRINGERS, BEFORE HE SIGNS WITH THE CUBS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

seawolf17 Dec 10 2015 08:40 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

MFS62 wrote: Of curse I want him back. He was my boyhood idol. Later That made me laugh out loud. If he'll take an undefined mentor/part-time role for a million or two, then I'd do that in a heartbeat. If some other team is willing to give him more, I'll respect that and bid him fond farewell with nothing but the fondest memories.

d'Kong76 Dec 10 2015 10:41 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

The Braves have floundered and are not the arch-enemy they once were, but I'd hate to see Tio Bartolo end his career in Atlanta.

themetfairy Dec 10 2015 10:51 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

My gut tells me that we got more than we ever could have expected out of Bartolo and that it would be foolhardy to give him an extension at this point. Then again, my gut told me the same thing two years ago....

Edgy MD Dec 10 2015 10:52 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

For some guys, the end comes when their control abandons them. For others, they just can't find the stuff to finish guys off any more, and they get battered by 10th-pitch two-out hits. For Bartolo, the end will come in a series of bombs. BOMBS!

Zvon Dec 11 2015 04:07 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

seawolf17 wrote: MFS62 wrote: Of curse I want him back. He was my boyhood idol. Later That made me laugh out loud. That got me too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2015 03:20 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

1 yr, 7.25MM

Edgy MD Dec 16 2015 03:22 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Surprised.

themetfairy Dec 16 2015 03:23 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I can live with that.

Centerfield Dec 16 2015 03:24 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Too much for Bartolo. I like the guy and all, but there are better uses of money.

d'Kong76 Dec 16 2015 03:25 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Surprised at that large figure. The money too. Glad to have him one more year.

Ceetar Dec 16 2015 03:26 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

eh, it's just money. subjectively, I'd have preferred someone better, but that's fine.

d'Kong76 Dec 16 2015 03:30 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Starting tomorrow I'm gonna start agreeing with you and see if you disagree just for sake of, ya know, being contrary... I'm hoping Colon is a long reliever, spot starter, go-to-guy in a tight spot in the 7th... and continues his Tio Bartolo role as second pitching coach.

Ceetar Dec 16 2015 03:31 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

right now he's pretty much a lock for 5th starter.

d'Kong76 Dec 16 2015 03:33 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I meant was hoping, for 7+ clams yeah...

Zvon Dec 16 2015 03:35 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I'm good with this. I imagine we had to put a little more bait on the hook for a one year deal. If he's in the rotation coming out of ST I'll bet TC gives him opening day again.

Lefty Specialist Dec 16 2015 03:38 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Okay, got that taken care of. Long live the Jiggling Belly.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2015 03:43 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Ceetar wrote: eh, it's just money. Have you been paying ANY attention at all? Do you somehow still cling to the notion that the Mets have an unlimited budget?

dgwphotography Dec 16 2015 04:32 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I like it. He'll be the fifth starter until Wheeler comes back, and then can be used in the pen and for spot starts.

Vic Sage Dec 16 2015 04:59 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

i'd be more upset about this, and Cabrera, if i thought for a second that they were spending this money instead of pursuing Cespedes or Upton, but since i don't think they'd do that anyway, they might as well go with El Colonoscopy.

Fman99 Dec 16 2015 05:05 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I like it because he's pudgy and effective.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2015 08:49 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

There were 75 starts last season made by someone named NOT Harvey-deGrom-Syndergaard-Matz - the only four 'proven' starters on the roster prior to this signing. 33 of them were from Black Bart and 36 others from guys no longer in the org. A full season from Syndergaard & Matz will make up for approx 1/3 of that 75 and maybe a dozen more from Wheeler gets you up to around 1/2 - and that's assuming no injuries from any of them or from any of the others either. So if the remainder of the 'missing' starts weren't going to come from Bartolo they were going to have to come from someone, either imported or internally promoted. Which isn't to say he was the only option, but he's been a pretty good one for two seasons and even with him a team rarely gets by with just five starters (used 10 different ones last year). 2014 Starts to cover from other than the assumed current starting five Niese = 29 Gee = 7 Sean Gilmartin = 1 Logan Verrett = 4 Rafael Montero = 1 And for the accountants out there, this contract represents money saved on him as compared to each of the last two seasons. On the downside: I don't want to say that he's old but, during Colon's rookie year, the ML minimum salary for $3.75/hour plus tips.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 16 2015 09:04 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Those of you thinking this is expensive for Colon, well, keep in mind: 1) He rejected multiple better offers to sign here. 2) He's willing AND able to start AND relieve, which is surprisingly rare among the non-barely-staying-in-the-league pitching set. 3) This is a market in which Chris Young snagged 2/$12M with an option, JA Happ took home a 3/$36M deal, and PELF signed for 2/16.

Nymr83 Dec 17 2015 12:17 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I really like the guy but wow, we are talking about replacement-level innings here. i get that the other bad free agent pitchers cost money too, but wouldn't we get the same from some combination of Logan Verrett, Rafael Montero, etc? with at least the chance of upside? oh well, glad to have the guy who makes us all feel young and skinny back i guess!

Edgy MD Dec 17 2015 07:37 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Like with the team's building up at short and second, they're certainly more likely to get it with Barty on board. And for what it's worth, his innings look a lot better from the FIP perspective.

d'Kong76 Dec 17 2015 08:43 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

FIP = Fat Innings Pitched (also Feline Infectious Peritonitis, Fielding Independent Pitching, and Formative Instructional Pratices?)

Ceetar Dec 17 2015 08:58 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: eh, it's just money. Have you been paying ANY attention at all? Do you somehow still cling to the notion that the Mets have an unlimited budget? Oh please. Like this piddling amount is going to stop them from doing anything else? It's not. 100% it's not. You can argue they're broke and strapped and won't sign XX but it's not because they blew the money on Colon. If they desperately needed that bit of change they'd have just rolled with Verrett and Montero and whoever was already in the system. You can tell me they should have thrown money at Heyward, but throwing out small amounts for roster depth guys tells me a lot more about a team's mindset and financials. Because there's a big difference between can spend money and won't spend money. So while the Mets are probably still not financially laden with the ability to do whatever they want and are still approaching decisions with a prudent mindset (which isn't necessarily bad either) tossing around 7 million for below average roster depth guys with 'intangibles' is a good thing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 17 2015 09:22 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Nymr83 wrote: I really like the guy but wow, we are talking about replacement-level innings here. i get that the other bad free agent pitchers cost money too, but wouldn't we get the same from some combination of Logan Verrett, Rafael Montero, etc? with at least the chance of upside? oh well, glad to have the guy who makes us all feel young and skinny back i guess! Depth isn't about who you have in the fifth slot. It's about who you have in the ninth slot, once deGrom has forearm tightness, Syndergaard gets hit with a line drive and has to sit for a week, and Matz misses a start or five. The further down on the depth chart you push Gilmartin or Verrett (regardless of what the laws of gravity imply, his floor is a LOT lower than Colon's), the better off you are. And holy hell, does Colon bring more than heft. Have you even seen the game face, man? Cold. Blooded. (Only in a lovable way.)

metsmarathon Dec 17 2015 10:13 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

last year, bartolo colon produced about 2.5 WAR, per fangraphs. bbref has him at 1.0 WAR. the difference is htat fangraphs uses, I believe FIP whereas bbref uses RA9. steamer projects him to be about 1.3 WAR this year, but that's in 124 innings or so. the going transactional price of a single WAR is currently $8M, meaning on the free agent market, you're spending about $8M to get back 1 WAR in production ($16M for 2 WAR, etc). by that metric, howevermuch validity you may assign it, bartolo is a value signing.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2015 10:31 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

I don't see how $7 million is "piddling". It's a decent chunk of a $105 million payroll.

Ceetar Dec 17 2015 10:36 AM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't see how $7 million is "piddling". It's a decent chunk of a $105 million payroll. State of baseball these days. I mean, that's like the 150th highest salary and from what I can tell it's in the bottom half of non-minimum guys. Chase Utley sucks and is getting 7. That's what a 5th starter costs these days.

metsmarathon Dec 17 2015 03:23 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

fangraphs' contract crowdsourcing exercise yielded an expected contract for bartolo colon of 1 year at $10M. so the mets are coming out ahead here. but let me put it another way, to reframe the argument with different goalposts. looking at next year's projection for colon, steamer via fangraphs has him projected to a 3.77 ERA, 3.89 FIP over 128 innings. a pitcher whose been bandied about this offseason as going to a bunch of potential suitors, not as a top of the rotation guy but as a solid mid-rotation piece, is mike leake. both have mediocre strikeout numbers of 6ish k/9. colon actually strikes out more than leake. he also has way, way better control, walking half as many batters per 9. but the comparison I'm driving towards here is that leake is projected to 2 WAR over 203 innings - the same rate as colon given the same number of innings. (colon is projected to have a better FIP 3.88 to 4.13, and a better ERA 3.77 to 4.13 than leake) leake is being talked about as a 4 year, $15M kind of investment for some teams. and fangraphs crowdsourcing exercise had him at 5x$14M. in colon, we would be looking at about the same production for half the cost, no long term commitment, the flexibility to put him willingly into the pen, the intangibles of his experience, and the entertainment of experiencing him. $8M is a pretty good value for what we can expect to get from colon.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2015 03:36 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Can also flip him mid-season if the staff becomes too much of a luxury and one of our key batsmen is concussed or something.

RealityChuck Dec 19 2015 04:58 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Bartolo's contract may end up being more expensive than we think. Te Mets' one-year deal with Bartolo Colon includes a few incentives, per Jon Heyman, the highlight of which is undoubtedly a $50,000 bonus if the 42-year-old wins a Silver Slugger award.

Ashie62 Dec 19 2015 08:09 PM Re: Let us exchange our collective feelings on Bartolo Colon

Building quality depth for 7 million. Yeah!!