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Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Centerfield Dec 11 2015 02:25 PM

At least in the Mets context? Can't play CF, so he doesn't fit the Mets as nicely as Heyward did, but supplies more consistent power. Only 28 years old, so he's squarely in his prime. http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/i ... stin-upton Had a down year last year, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to playing in San Diego. The only way Upton would work is if you move Granderson to CF and platoon him with Lagares, with the hope that Lagares' bat will come around by the time Granderson's contract is up. It would not be a good defensive OF. I think this, and obviously the money, means we're not getting him. But hey, he's from Norfolk, Virginia. And that means he should be playing for us.

MFS62 Dec 11 2015 02:55 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

If he could play center, I have no doubt he would be part of Sandy's stealth plan. (You don't know about it until it has delivered.) But a team that stresses pitching usually needs to be strong defensively up the middle. I'm not so sure that is true with a strikeout/ fly ball staff. I remember when Davey would play HoJo at short when El Sid pitched because he didn't think there would be too many ground balls, and it didn't backfire too often. But if defense is a concern, Upton taking up a corner spot and moving Granderson to center wouldn't be an answer. Damn, if he could only play center! Later

Zvon Dec 11 2015 03:17 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

MFS62 wrote: But if defense is a concern, Upton taking up a corner spot and moving Granderson to center wouldn't be an answer. Damn, if he could only play center! Later Even from an offensive standpoint if you're thinking of a platoon w/Lags. I don't see them using Grandy in a platoon situation going into 2016. I'd pass on Upton for intangible reasons.

Fman99 Dec 13 2015 10:22 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

So no Upton, and Cespedes has priced himself out of town, and Heyward signed a stupid-rich contract for the Cubs, and who's left to provide offense as an OF? That's a FA or on the market? No one, right? Fuck, then. All that juice that Cespy provided down the stretch and we're replacing it with Lagares + some scrub? And Conforto hopefully starting to hit lefties?

MFS62 Dec 14 2015 08:52 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Matt Cerrone has a way to spend the money - on 5 players: https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/id-rather- ... /159603996 After Michael Cuddyer's retirement frees up significant payroll for the Mets, I think they should still pass on Yoenis Cespedes and instead go after Denard Span or Gerardo Parra, among other players, to round out the roster. Right now, assuming the Mets are paying something this season to Cuddyer, while deferring the rest, Sandy Alderson has roughly $20-25 million left to spend on his Opening Day roster. The choice shouldn't be about spending or not spending; it's about spending on the right needs. The more I look at it, spending every dollar of the team's remaining budget on one player is not the best way to go. Obviously, I loved the Cespedes we saw in August. He was amazing. But that level production was uncharacteristic and unsustainable, and I refuse to let it impact how I think he'll perform the next three years, let alone six, which is what he's asking for. Yes, he had a red-hot eight weeks, but they were unlike any other stretch during his four-year career. Instead, during the course of a full season, I expect he'll be the player he was during the other 88 weeks of his career, which is a .260 hitter with 25 home runs and a low on-base percentage. While he's an amazing left fielder, he's a bad center fielder, which is where he would have to play the next two seasons. Curtis Granderson has experience in center field, but he may be as bad there -- or worse -- as Cespedes. And, Cespedes has never played right field. In either scenario, center field becomes a defensive liability. In the end, I just don't see Cespedes as a good fit for Alderson's overall roster. Instead of Cespedes, the Mets should utilize those resources on Span, Bartolo Colon, free-agent 1B-OF Ryan Rayburn and left-handed relievers Jerry Blevins and Antonio Bastardo. These five players will cost as much as one season of Cespedes. However, it fills all of the team's remaining needs. Plus, Span gives the Mets a speedy, left-handed leadoff hitter, which pushes Granderson's 26 home runs back to the heart of the batting order. In Span, Neil Walker, Michael Conforto, David Wright, Granderson, Lucas Duda, Asdrubal Cabrera and Travis d'Arnaud, the Mets have seven players capable of hitting at least 15 home runs a season and one capable of stealing 30 bases. Pair this lineup with their rotation, bullpen and bench, and the Mets have a strong, versatile, well-rounded roster that is more than capable of defending the NL East. Later

Edgy MD Dec 14 2015 08:59 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

The thing about Cespedes and center field is that you only have to hold your breath for two years. Can you do that? After that, he can move over and take Granderson's spot in right. The other option, of course, is trading Granderson, which may net you something after a good year, as expensive as his contract is.

Centerfield Dec 14 2015 09:06 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Yeah, that is a real tough question. Do you sell high on Granderson? You'd think you could find a taker for him and the remaining 2 years on his contract if you had to. He put up better numbers last year than Upton, who is going to cost a fortune. Granderson had a great season in 2015, but is that the outlier? I scoffed at the idea, but maybe reuniting him with his hitting coach really did make a difference.

Centerfield Dec 14 2015 09:08 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

MFS62 wrote: Matt Cerrone has a way to spend the money - on 5 players: https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/id-rather- ... /159603996 After Michael Cuddyer's retirement frees up significant payroll for the Mets, I think they should still pass on Yoenis Cespedes and instead go after Denard Span or Gerardo Parra, among other players, to round out the roster. Right now, assuming the Mets are paying something this season to Cuddyer, while deferring the rest, Sandy Alderson has roughly $20-25 million left to spend on his Opening Day roster. The choice shouldn't be about spending or not spending; it's about spending on the right needs. The more I look at it, spending every dollar of the team's remaining budget on one player is not the best way to go. Obviously, I loved the Cespedes we saw in August. He was amazing. But that level production was uncharacteristic and unsustainable, and I refuse to let it impact how I think he'll perform the next three years, let alone six, which is what he's asking for. Yes, he had a red-hot eight weeks, but they were unlike any other stretch during his four-year career. Instead, during the course of a full season, I expect he'll be the player he was during the other 88 weeks of his career, which is a .260 hitter with 25 home runs and a low on-base percentage. While he's an amazing left fielder, he's a bad center fielder, which is where he would have to play the next two seasons. Curtis Granderson has experience in center field, but he may be as bad there -- or worse -- as Cespedes. And, Cespedes has never played right field. In either scenario, center field becomes a defensive liability. In the end, I just don't see Cespedes as a good fit for Alderson's overall roster. Instead of Cespedes, the Mets should utilize those resources on Span, Bartolo Colon, free-agent 1B-OF Ryan Rayburn and left-handed relievers Jerry Blevins and Antonio Bastardo. These five players will cost as much as one season of Cespedes. However, it fills all of the team's remaining needs. Plus, Span gives the Mets a speedy, left-handed leadoff hitter, which pushes Granderson's 26 home runs back to the heart of the batting order. In Span, Neil Walker, Michael Conforto, David Wright, Granderson, Lucas Duda, Asdrubal Cabrera and Travis d'Arnaud, the Mets have seven players capable of hitting at least 15 home runs a season and one capable of stealing 30 bases. Pair this lineup with their rotation, bullpen and bench, and the Mets have a strong, versatile, well-rounded roster that is more than capable of defending the NL East. Later Anyone seriously advocating money to Bartolo and middle relievers instead of offense really loses credibility in my mind. The thing about Span, how do you know he's not hurt? He just had hip surgery. I get that he might be a low risk guy in terms of money, but if he's useless next year, we still have no centerfielder.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2015 09:08 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Edgy MD wrote: The thing about Cespedes and center field is that you only have to hold your breath for two years. Can you do that? After that, he can move over and take Granderson's spot in right. The other option, of course, is trading Granderson, which may net you something after a good year, as expensive as his contract is. Yeah but you get the feeling the Mets never flip their popular, under-contract guys unless the situation is obvious (last weeks of the deal and way out if it etc). I think this is in part because the Wilpons are just way too emotionally involved in the perception of the club as a brand. This situation especially -- trading a cheaper corner outfielder who's a terrific citizen so as to sign a more expensive one with questionable PR value -- is something I'm comfortable the Wilpons would never approve.

Centerfield Dec 14 2015 09:16 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy MD wrote: the Wilpons are just way too emotionally involved in the perception of the club as a brand. This is absolutely true. Which is why it makes no sense that they would sit back and allow themselves to be raked over the coals over not spending. They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. Which makes me wonder about your "lender-restriction" theory. I really wonder if the Wilpons agreed to some "no contract more than 4 years" type of clause. It would explain their absolute fawning over 35 year old Zobrist but their complete disregard of 26 year old Heyward.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2015 09:28 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

you can mention Upton all you want; we're going to end up with Parra, at best.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2015 10:31 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Centerfield wrote: They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. And how is it that we know this?

Centerfield Dec 14 2015 10:40 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Frayed Knot wrote: Centerfield wrote: They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. And how is it that we know this? Because they are at $90 million now. Without the Cabrera signing they would be at $81 million. Even if you added Heyward's $23 million, you're still only at $103 million. Which is what the payroll was to begin 2015.

d'Kong76 Dec 14 2015 11:21 AM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Frayed Knot wrote: Centerfield wrote: They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. And how is it that we know this? They (the Mets) said so like three days ago in a quote I can't find right now. Didn't use the word budget, I think it was more like 'adequate resources.'

Ceetar Dec 14 2015 01:21 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Centerfield wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy MD wrote: the Wilpons are just way too emotionally involved in the perception of the club as a brand. This is absolutely true. Which is why it makes no sense that they would sit back and allow themselves to be raked over the coals over not spending. They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. Which makes me wonder about your "lender-restriction" theory. I really wonder if the Wilpons agreed to some "no contract more than 4 years" type of clause. It would explain their absolute fawning over 35 year old Zobrist but their complete disregard of 26 year old Heyward. Seems like there are times when it would've been the Mets MO to give stupid money to decent-hitting Heyward to prove that they could.

Centerfield Dec 14 2015 01:54 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

Ceetar wrote: Centerfield wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy MD wrote: the Wilpons are just way too emotionally involved in the perception of the club as a brand. This is absolutely true. Which is why it makes no sense that they would sit back and allow themselves to be raked over the coals over not spending. They certainly have room in their budget to get a big name outfielder if they wanted one. Which makes me wonder about your "lender-restriction" theory. I really wonder if the Wilpons agreed to some "no contract more than 4 years" type of clause. It would explain their absolute fawning over 35 year old Zobrist but their complete disregard of 26 year old Heyward. Seems like there are times when it would've been the Mets MO to give stupid money to decent-hitting Heyward to prove that they could. Oh. Never mind. All good.

Edgy MD Dec 14 2015 02:03 PM Re: Is it worthwhile to even mention Justin Upton?

I see what he's getting at. On the other hand, I admire Theo Epstein for coming up with a very creative contract that seems to be uniquely advantageous for both the Cubs (who get him at a rate below what other teams were offering) and Heyward, who gets two opt-out years if he outplays his salary, which he should if he stays healthy.