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#42

askus3 Feb 19 2006 10:34 AM

I came across this article/opinion in my local newspaper's on-line edition. I am very disturbed by this blight. Lima should give up uniform #42. End of discussion. Here is the article: _____________________________________________________________ February 19, 2006 Mets create mess giving Lima No. 42 Port St. Lucie, Fla. - Outside, under the kind of perfect sun that burns brighter because you hadn't seen it in far too long, the reassuring thump of ball against glove carried from one field to the other. Inside, Jose Reyes' eyes grew wider when he thought something the Mets are allowed to think even more this year. "Wow," Reyes said of the Mets' offseason bounty. "They want to win." Welcome to the first full day of workouts for pitchers and catchers, a picture-perfect snapshot of spring all over the St. Lucie complex. With just one blemish. You can consider it a minor one, of course. A small detail. And, on a day when watching players hit the field in uniform for the first time should stir every deep-down baseball fan to think the same words Willie Randolph uttered - "that's what I'm talking about" - the flaw could have easily escaped into the background. But it shouldn't. Because the sight of spring-training invitee Jose Lima in a No. 42 jersey blurred the picture just enough to taint it. What the heck were the Mets thinking? That's Jackie Robinson's number. That fact was decided on the Mets' very field nine years ago. When Robinson's family gathered and Bud Selig spoke and Shea Stadium became an extension of Ebbets Field, the Mets again showing their status as an heir to the old Brooklyn Dodgers. All of baseball was to retire the jersey that night in honor of a man whose impact reached well beyond the game. And there were the Mets yesterday ho-humming all of it, handing over the jersey nine years after being handed the privilege of hosting the ceremony. Even though they think enough of their ties with the old Dodgers to put their minor-league team in Brooklyn and wonder about planning an Ebbets Field-style ballpark when they move out of Shea. Yes, Lima had worn the number before the league retired it - which would allow him to continue wearing it. That's what happened when Mo Vaughn became a Met, but Vaughn was truly wed to that number in a public tribute to Robinson. Mariano Rivera is the last active player to wear the number because he had worn it already, too, and has often spoke of the honor associated with it. Lima? He likes the number because he won with it. Which is perfectly fine, but should leave him open to accepting another number. Especially since he has had to do that for the last four years because other teams denied him the opportunity. (And, for the record, it's questionable how he acquired the number in the first place since he said Houston assigned it to him in 1997 - apparently a few months before the ceremony honoring Robinson.) But when Lima played for the Dodgers, he obviously did not wear the number. And the Kansas City Royals did not assign it to him either, which could very well have something to do with the fact Robinson once played in that town, which is now home to the Negro League Hall of Fame. But the Mets? They asked permission from the league office, spokesman Jay Horowitz said initially before later clarifying they had not received official clearance. They shouldn't even have tried. They should have politely told Lima to pick another number. They should have recognized their role as guardians of Robinson's legacy the way the Royals did. Especially since they hang Robinson's jersey in a frame in their lobby and are about 10 minutes from the Jackie Robinson Parkway. You think this is nitpicking? You want to just get to the sun and fun and the essence of spring training and all that is good about it without such fuss over small details? Well, that's exactly what spring training is about. Getting the little things right. Doing things the right way. The Mets are working on that more and more on the field now, but they have to do the same off the field. Robinson deserves this honor to be guarded forever. Especially in New York. The man whose perfectly bright spring and summer days were often tainted beyond our imagination should never have to share his spot in the sun again. __________________________________________________________

Johnny Dickshot Feb 19 2006 10:51 AM

Jeez Louise. Let the guy wear the number he was grandfathered to wear. When he goes, it goes. Nobody is going to forget about Robinson whether or not baseball retuired his number leaguewise anyway, and I'm sure JR himself wouldn;t have cared.

Yancy Street Gang Feb 19 2006 11:02 AM

This is being blown way out of proportion. He should be allowed to wear the number. And if the Mets ever hire Ron Hodges to be a coach or manager, the he, too, should be allowed to wear 42.

Edgy DC Feb 19 2006 12:50 PM

If the Mets ever hire Ron Hodges to manage, his number would likely be the least controversial part of it.

KC Feb 19 2006 12:55 PM

a3: >>>I am very disturbed by this blight. Lima should give up uniform #42. End of discussion.<<< The rule is the rule - I don't see the big deal. Beside whoever wears that number often does so to pay respect to it.

Yancy Street Gang Feb 19 2006 12:55 PM

I say, give it a shot and see what happens.

mlbaseballtalk Feb 19 2006 01:26 PM

The one bone of contention I can see people having is that the Astros just issued Lima 42 at the time of the retirement, and he came into the Grandfathering due to chance, not because of a choice, and unlike other 42's like Butch Huskey, Mo Vaughn, and Mariano Rivera does not seem to "appreciate" and "embrace" the number and its legacy "properly" I can understand this though, quite often you'll see new players request numbers retired and/or out of circulation, its not someone's responsiblity to reseach his new team's retired number list and history, even if the name is one of the biggest in sports and America's history By the way, the thing about the Dodgers, uh 42 was put away proper by that franchise in the early 70's. Perpetuity or not, no one gets that number as a Dodger, even if the Dodgers accquire Mariano Rivera! Steve

Edgy DC Feb 19 2006 01:36 PM

How do any of us know, of course, what Lima appreciates? Good and important point about the Dodgers.

Willets Point Feb 19 2006 02:19 PM 42

The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2006 02:53 PM

i don't think he should be grandfathered back in after switching numbers, he wore it with the astros, fine, and if he had continued wearing it after that it would be fine too....but he hasn't worn it now for awhile, there is no reason to let him go back to it.

DocTee Feb 19 2006 02:53 PM

I thought there was an image of Lima with a #99 jersey? What if he wanted to wear #41, because he had in the past? No deal, right, because the Mets had retired that number-- well, they retired 42 also. Pick another number, Jose.

TheOldMole Feb 19 2006 03:23 PM

I'm pretty much on Monstrous Jim's side here -- Lima's not doing it out of passionate feeling for Jackie, he's worn other numbers in the past, etc. Kinda makes you wanna root for him not to make the club.

mlbaseballtalk Feb 19 2006 03:39 PM

TheOldMole wrote: I'm pretty much on Monstrous Jim's side here -- Lima's not doing it out of passionate feeling for Jackie, he's worn other numbers in the past, etc. Kinda makes you wanna root for him not to make the club. As Edgy just because Lima hasn't come out and said it, doesn't mean anything in regards to what he feels about the subject Plus the Dodgers and Royals had reasons not to let him wear it. Granted the Dodgers had 42 on their own retirement books but its not like he switched numbers after leaving the Astros and now wants an old number linking back to his better days

mlbaseballtalk Feb 19 2006 03:47 PM

Looks like 42 is going back to mothballs per Scout.com: [url]http://mets.scout.com/2/500867.html[/url] ]False alarm: It seems Jose Lima won't be allowed to wear No. 42 with the Mets after all. Lima, 33, was instructed to put his No. 99 jersey on after just one day wearing his new digit. Baseball universally retired No. 42 for Jackie Robinson in 1997, but Lima was wearing the number before the April 15 ceremony that year and thus was grandfathered in as a player who could continue to wear it. However, Lima has not worn No. 42 in either of his previous two stints with the Dodgers and Royals, and Major League Baseball has not granted Lima permission to wear it with the Mets. "At least I tried," Lima said. "I'm not mad. I don't make the decisions." The one issue I have is that he couldn't wear it as a Dodger was simply the club retired the number on their own. So its not like he switched numbers on his own

Nymr83 Feb 19 2006 04:19 PM

Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't, if it isn't then get it off the wall at shea before you put it on anyone's back. if it is then you don't get to wear it unless you have been continuosly wearing it since before the number was retired (ala rivera)

MFS62 Feb 19 2006 04:26 PM

Wouldn't Lima prefer 21? Later

mlbaseballtalk Feb 19 2006 04:28 PM

Delgado is currently 21

MFS62 Feb 19 2006 05:14 PM

Oh. Thanks, Later

Elster88 Feb 19 2006 07:46 PM

Whew. Crisis averted.

Frayed Knot Feb 19 2006 09:00 PM

"Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't" It isn't, not yet anyway: hence Mariano.

Zvon Feb 19 2006 09:21 PM Re: 42

Willets Point wrote: The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. HaHAHA.....it is, isnt it. Tho if I remember right it didnt add up. ]Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't, if it isn't then get it off the wall at shea before you put it on anyone's back. Im glad this is now a mute point, but I can say I was surprized that the Mets attempted to make this happen. Maybe it was a mere formality to try. Lima was in no way really attached to this number. He simply shouldnt have requested it out of respect. Cripes, its on the wall at Shea lined up with all Met retired numbers.

Zvon Feb 19 2006 09:23 PM

="Frayed Knot"]"Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't" It isn't, not yet anyway: hence Mariano. I would recognize Rivera's attachment to the number. Not in Limas case, imo.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2006 09:52 PM

] "Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't" It isn't, not yet anyway: hence Mariano. yes, it is. if the Mets were to retire #5 for John Olerud tommorow, David Wright would be grandfathered in and allowed to keep it, but if Wright went to Baltimore (who already had 5 retired for John Doe) he would not get to keep 5. Rivera can keep 42 because he had 42 before the yankees (along with everyone else) retired it, if jose lima had remained an astro he could have kept the number as well, but when he went to another city where that number is retired he's out of luck.

Edgy DC Feb 19 2006 10:14 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Feb 19 2006 10:22 PM

]Either 42 is retired by every team or it isn't, if it isn't then get it off the wall at shea before you put it on anyone's back. if it is then you don't get to wear it unless you have been continuosly wearing it since before the number was retired (ala rivera) Or... it is with exceptions, as explicitly stated. That "out of luck" thing is pretty arbitrary.

Frayed Knot Feb 19 2006 10:20 PM

"Im glad this is now a mute point" Is this a point that we remain silent about? "I would recognize Rivera's attachment to the number" And we all know about Rivera's personal attachment to it because ... well, he says so!! I'm sure Jackie was on the mind of most Panamanians growing up and there's no way that the NYY publicity machine pass a story like that if it weren't 100% true.

metsmarathon Feb 19 2006 10:44 PM

its a moo point. its like a cow's opinion - its moo

Zvon Feb 20 2006 12:24 AM

="Frayed Knot"]"Im glad this is now a mute point" Is this a point that we remain silent about? lmao. Whuups ="Frayed Knot"] "I would recognize Rivera's attachment to the number" And we all know about Rivera's personal attachment to it because ... well, he says so!! I'm sure Jackie was on the mind of most Panamanians growing up and there's no way that the NYY publicity machine pass a story like that if it weren't 100% true. Has Rivera worn any other number during his career?

mlbaseballtalk Feb 20 2006 10:48 AM

="Zvon"] ="Frayed Knot"]"Im glad this is now a mute point" Is this a point that we remain silent about? lmao. Whuups ="Frayed Knot"] "I would recognize Rivera's attachment to the number" And we all know about Rivera's personal attachment to it because ... well, he says so!! I'm sure Jackie was on the mind of most Panamanians growing up and there's no way that the NYY publicity machine pass a story like that if it weren't 100% true. Has Rivera worn any other number during his career? -No Rivera hasn't -FK, you know it is possible that after the retirement of 42 that Rivera embraced all what wearing the number entails rather than growing up knowing the history of who wore 42

Frayed Knot Feb 20 2006 11:44 AM

Of course it is. I'm just saying that there's an awful lot of speculatin' goin' on 'round these parts as we make assumptions about "deservedness" based on how pure we decide their reasons are for wanting the number. Doesn't matter; the league denied his request, he's a long-shot to make the team anyway, and I've already wasted too many keystrokes on this relatively unimportant issue.

metirish Feb 20 2006 06:08 PM

Like FK said he will not be allowed to wear #42, here he is Sunday back to wearing #99