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Being Grote to the Max

Willets Point Feb 24 2006 08:41 AM

(Grote to the Max was one of the best usernames for one of the posters at the old Metsonline) Here's another player whose Mets career predated my following the team since he was traded away in the summer of 1977 (did the Mets just get rid of their core players wholesale that year or what?). I like that he represents in Mets history in Excellence in Catching. He's the first of the great Mets catchers followed by Stearns, Carter, Hundley and Piazza (even a backup cather Pratt got to be the hero in 1999). UMDB users rate him as a topnotch defensive catcher who didn't hit much, so I suppose if we could combine him with Piazza we'd have the ultimate catcher. He's also on Myspace, so check it out: [url]http://www.myspace.com/jerrygrote[/url]

Vic Sage Feb 24 2006 08:48 AM

i remember when he was picked up by the Dodgers as a backup, and they were playing the Yankees, i think, in the WS (1981?). Lasorda had put Grote in as part of a double switch. The Yanks had a man on first and tried to bunt him over to 2nd. Grote pounced on the bunt like a tiger and threw the guy out at 2nd. The Yanks tried it AGAIN. Grote threw out the lead runner AGAIN. I think he even threw out a basestealer at one point in that game. It was a beautiful thing to see.

Johnny Dickshot Feb 24 2006 09:14 AM

Grote was once thought of as a phenom but got brought up too early by Houston and eventually got stuck behind their other catching prospects. He also had a bad case of the "Red Ass" when they finally gave up on him and traded him to the Mets for next to nothing. Grote actually spent most of the 1965 season playing third base for the Astro' AAA team. Met pitchers frequently complained/marveled that Grote kept them in line by returning throws to them that were just as difficult to catch as the pitch that came in -- if the bases were empty and the pitcher threw one in the dirt, look out. I marvel that Grote ever survived his first few years in a Met uni -- his offense was flat-out putrid, and his attitude was an issue. In 1967, Wes Westrum lost patience with him. On July 27 at Los Angeles, Grote was the last catcher available and got himself ejected (not clear why from the pbp, but I assume he was arguing balls and strikes when it was his turn at bat in the top of the 8th and the Mets ahead 5-3 ??). Outfielder Tommie Reynolds had to pinch-hit and go into the game as a catcher. The Dodgers used a stolen base in a rally to take the lead in that game, and after the Mets tied it up in the 9th, the Dodgers won it in the 11th on a passed ball by Reynolds. This was the only appearance at catcher for Tommie Reynolds in his career and landed Grote in the shithouse. Boxscore: [url]http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B07270LAN1967.htm[/url]

Vic Sage Feb 24 2006 09:26 AM

as a hitter, Grote was no J.Bench, but he wasn't putrid (as compared to other catchers in the mid-1960s to mid 1970s era). He was basically a .250 hitter, without much punch or speed. He hit like a SS, but his defensive value was equivalent to a top SS as well. Thats why he lasted for over 15 years. There was a handful of great hitting catchers in that era. Grote wasn't amongst them. But he was a great catcher nonetheless. He did have a rep as a prickly hardass. But so did the other catcher in the Bronx, if i recall correctly. And it took a plane crash to keep that guy out of the record books.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 24 2006 09:30 AM Re: Being Grote to the Max

="Willets Point"]did the Mets just get rid of their core players wholesale that year or what? I signed on with the Mets in 1971, and just about all of my perennial favorites checked out in 1977 or 1978. (Seaver, Koosman, Harrelson, Grote, Matlack, Milner) It was a tough time to be a fan. But we ended up buying into the idea that the next generation of greatness was coming up soon thanks to Mazzilli, Henderson, Stearns, Zachry, etc. Didn't work out that way. I liked this UMDB memory from Kevin Mc: ]Kevin Mc Johnny Bench once said: If Jerry Grote played for the Reds, I'd be playing 3rd base I think I remember that quote, too. Until Howard Johnson came along with his 997, Grote was the Met who came closest to 1,000 hits without reaching that magic number. I wonder if he's even aware of that fact?

cooby Feb 24 2006 09:36 AM

I liked Jerry Grote and I can remember once, in 1973, I think it was, the Mets had a long winning streak, about 12 games, and during a shot of Jerry Grote (who was probably actually thinking about which pitch to call) I remember wondering if he was thinking "We've won 10 in a row!" Loved Sharon Grote, not only did she know how to sew clothes, but I can remember the Grotes on a Gulden's Mustard ad and her saying with a Texas twang "We're the Grotes....". I begged my parents to buy Guldens! I'm sure they were wondering why, since I never ate mustard. Edit: Just check UMDB to find it was 1972, and 11 in a row

dinosaur jesus Feb 24 2006 10:01 AM

He's from my father's home town, another reason I always liked him. A rough part of San Antonio. Two things I remember about him: the way, at the end of an inning, he'd toss the ball to the side of the mound away from the opposing dugout, so the other team's pitcher would have to walk those extra few steps to get it. And (so I read) sometimes when he was pissed at the home plate umpire, he'd let a pitch go by so it hit the umpire. "Gosh, sorry, ump."

MFS62 Feb 24 2006 10:04 AM

Vic Sage wrote: as a hitter, Grote was no J.Bench, but he wasn't putrid (as compared to other catchers in the mid-1960s to mid 1970s era). He was basically a .250 hitter, without much punch or speed. He hit like a SS, but his defensive value was equivalent to a top SS as well. Thats why he lasted for over 15 years. There was a handful of great hitting catchers in that era. Grote wasn't amongst them. But he was a great catcher nonetheless. He did have a rep as a prickly hardass. But so did the other catcher in the Bronx, if i recall correctly. And it took a plane crash to keep that guy out of the record books. Grote was a member of the "He can't hit a lick, but that tough sumbitch can sure handle a pitching staff" school of catching. You're right about his equivalency to a good fielding shortstop. Never thought about it like that. But don't get me started about that "catcher in the Bronx". He couldn't carry Grote's glove as a defensive player. He had a rag arm, which he hid by conveniently having the ball drop out of his glove if he knew he couldn't throw the guy out. If he had played in the go-go NL of the time, I think he would have been moved to the outfield. And, playing there, his numbers would have only been average. Compare his career numbers to Bruce Bochte. No, not Bruce Bochy the catcher. I'm talking about the guy with the similar name who was a 1B/ DH in the AL. Their career numbers are almost identical, and nothing to write home about. LAter

Edgy DC Feb 24 2006 10:12 AM

I wrote about it at the MOFo, but he had two or three patches of his face that we're without pigment. When he was with the Dodgers at the end of his career, he grew a beard and those patches came in pure white. He retired after the 1978 season and then came back in 1981 because his wife had left him and he reasoned that there wasn't anything else to do to keep him out of trouble. I think he's had a few runs as a minor-league manager. Maybe that oldskool red-ass won't let him stick. The "putrid" comment refers to the start of his career, from 1964-66 when he was pretty much consistenttly hitting at a sub-replacement rate, despite regularly getting into over 120 games. He improved, but a scan of his career shows he regressed for long patches also. Did Dyer replace him 1972 due to poor play or injury?

RealityChuck Feb 24 2006 10:41 AM

For me, Grote was the Mets catcher. All the rest were just building on his legacy. He's given a lot of credit for his game calling and defense, plus his hard-nosed attitude. He was considered the grouchiest player on the 60s Mets; you didn't mess with him. Little know trivia: Grote was the last NL all-star catcher before Johnny Bench came along and became the automatic pick for a decade or so (in '68, Grote started and Bench backed him up).

Benjamin Grimm Feb 24 2006 10:49 AM

I liked that during the 2000 NLCS, Grote, watching from home in Texas, called the Mets to let them know that Will Clark was peeking at the signals Piazza was calling for the pitchers.

Edgy DC Feb 24 2006 11:49 AM

I either did not know or had forgotten that.

mlbaseballtalk Feb 24 2006 06:39 PM

Interesting to note that not only did Jerry start the "Very Darn Good Met Catchers" line, the majority of members were all accquired in key deals that one way or another helped define that era in Met history -Stearns for McGraw Clearly a case of the Met brass getting rid of a guy percieved to be problematic clubhousewise, and the fact that they were concerned with a mole on his back was enough to send him and an integral part of the 69 and 73 clubs packing. By the way, not sure how "telling" this is about Stearns and his teammates as a Met, but check out the 77 yearbook Koosman cover. There is Koosman being congratulated by members of the team (and mostly holdovers from the 73 team like Millan and Garrett) but Stearns is way off to the side with no one around him. Hmmm -Carter and Piazza were "final pieces" to eventual two apperances a piece for their respective eras, lets see how LoDuca fares! Also Pratt and Sasser qualifies towards top Met backstops that came aboard through trades Steve

cleonjones11 Feb 24 2006 08:00 PM Grote and ump

Rumor has it that Grote got pissed at an ump and let a fastball go over his shoulder and nail him... Mets here since 1965 and Grote is my favorite Met catcher. tough SOB to the max!!!

Elster88 Feb 24 2006 08:03 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: Carter and Piazza were "final pieces" to eventual two apperances a piece for their respective eras, lets see how LoDuca fares! I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but I consider Piazza to have been more of a "first piece" than a final piece.

mlbaseballtalk Feb 24 2006 08:33 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="mlbaseballtalk"]Carter and Piazza were "final pieces" to eventual two apperances a piece for their respective eras, lets see how LoDuca fares! I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but I consider Piazza to have been more of a "first piece" than a final piece. Fair point, but Olerud was here, Leiter was here. "Final Piece" was a bit overstating. Hey I was thinking quickly okay! =;)

Zvon Feb 25 2006 04:45 AM

Grote was a master with a pitching staff. He covered his turf like no one Ive seen before or since. Like a wolf. He was a great defensive catcher. Fun to watch. And though he gets the tag of weak bat, he would step up at crucial times and get the big hit. It may have just been a clunker to drive in a run or a slap to the gap for a double and afew RBIs, but it was usually in a spot we needed it most. I respect the man as a catcher more than words could adequately express. I wont go into how I personally felt about the man, cuz this is a tribute thread, and Ive actually posted that story before.

Edgy DC Feb 25 2006 07:34 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 25 2006 11:22 AM

Well, technically Ojeda was more a final piece than Carter. Anybody for Mazzilli? Some important pieces pre-dated Piazza, and a few --- Benitez, Zeile, Hampton --- came after. But nobody likes them enough to think of them as final pieces. Besides, since the Mets failed to win the World Series, the completed puzzle metaphor doesn't really work. "First piece of the puzzle" and "last piece of the puzzle" are stuff that make a good journalistic lead, but aren't really as meaningful as all that. On George Foster's way out the door, he took solace in declaring that he was the "last piece of the puzzle" in Cincinnati and the "first piece of the puzzle" with the Mets. He has a case (though Orosco and Wilson migh disagree), but a first piece, of course, should still be in place when the puzzle is complete --- presumably the championship moment.

Elster88 Feb 25 2006 09:51 AM

If any of the posts that get overly specific about who was first or last are replies to me, please note the tell-tale leading phrase "more of a" in my post. I don't really care who was the first or last guy to join a team.