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New Stengel Biography

Edgy DC Feb 21 2006 06:18 PM

Goldman is a tough name for a biographer to have.

HahnSolo Feb 21 2006 08:05 PM

Don't believe in Goldman... His type like a curse... Instant Karma's gonna get him... If I don't get him first...

Edgy DC Feb 21 2006 08:44 PM

You follow.

Johnny Dickshot Feb 21 2006 11:51 PM

I've read this book already. Not bad. Goldman argues that Casey learned how to be great absorbing the lessons of McGraw and Robinson, and managing bad, undercapaitalized teams up until the point he joined the Yankees and used all that accumulated knowledge to make them WS winners in 1949, and on... This conceit allowed him to get into detail about stuff you wouldn't find in a typical Stengel bio, which I suppose was the point and what I found most enjoyable, since, honestly, I could care less if the MFYs won in 49 or not, but I was certainly entertained reading about his time with the Dodgers and Boston Bees. He provides Stengel with some proto-sabermetric brain qualities regarding stuff like lineup construction, bullpens and offense building. I think you could see some of that with the Mets in the early 60s, especially position shifting and stuff, but of course it did him little good.

Edgy DC Feb 22 2006 09:32 AM

How much early Mets material is there? Is that stuff in the review about Yogi being the great Stengel product explicit or something the reviewer inferred.

Johnny Dickshot Feb 22 2006 11:49 AM

Edgy DC wrote: How much early Mets material is there? None. ]Is that stuff in the review about Yogi being the great Stengel product explicit or something the reviewer inferred I don't recall, I'll check the review and book later.

Edgy DC Feb 22 2006 04:08 PM

The reviewer's read is that Stengel --- and, similarly, later Berra --- had an inner fire because he was frequently maligned, but knew in his heart that he knew far more about what he was doing than most, and certainly more than those maligning him, but had to find the situation that would support his capacities. Was this your read? And, if so, did you see any parallels to Bobby Valentine?

Johnny Dickshot Feb 22 2006 05:01 PM

I think the Berra stuff at the end of that review is more inferred than I recall... after all, he's citing several pieces of work at once. Also, Goldman barely touches on the yankees but for the first chapter where he lays out the case for the 49 team to suck big-time, only to be hammered into a winning unit by Stengel, then it goes into a flashback leading hundreds of pages later, back to that point in the story. That Stengel was a genius who hid behind humor and who felt maligned -- even wronged -- by others in baseball is a definite theme in Goldman's book. It was as if Casey didn't deserve the kind of teams he got in Boston and Brooklyn, and then paid for those thankless jobs by being unable to work in Los Grandes Ligas. It seemed a frustrating time for a guy brighter than his players and his bosses. I suppose there is some parallel to BV but I'm not sure I really understand what drives him so much.