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What's next for Harvey?

Disabled list with vague symptoms

2 votes

Steve Trachsel Treatment: 2 weeks in Vegas

7 votes

Skip 1 start, work on mechanix

6 votes

Assigned to the bullpen indefinitely

1 votes

Cross fingers and go get 'em Tuesday

10 votes

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 20 2016 12:27 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 20 2016 10:46 AM

The other post was kind of a dumb joke. So I'm re-doing this very important poll

Zvon May 20 2016 12:35 AM Re: When will Matt Harvey Retire?

I will after the post game interview sessions.

Edgy MD May 20 2016 12:36 AM Re: When will Matt Harvey Retire?

When will he retire as many as 19 batters in an evening?

Edgy MD May 20 2016 12:37 AM Re: When will Matt Harvey Retire?

Maybe he sees some time in the pen.

Zvon May 20 2016 12:45 AM Re: When will Matt Harvey Retire?

lol, oh what a dolt.

Zvon May 20 2016 03:23 AM Re: When will Matt Harvey Retire?

Maybe it's a simple thing.... I say he gets thru this thick patch of woods and comes out the other side just a tad more humble and less of a douche.

Lefty Specialist May 20 2016 12:03 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I think skipping a start is in order. I wouldn't want him going out there against the Nats again in 4 days. If there's nothing physical (The Guys haven't picked up on anything that could be injury-related), then he needs to work on stuff on the side with Warthen. All his pitches seem to be up. Now that being said, I think there's a mental component too. He seemed to give up after the flubs in the field. Very Niese-esque, and that's not where you want to be. Clear the mechanism.

Edgy MD May 20 2016 12:32 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

In the old days, he'd [list:4i2lem0j][*:4i2lem0j]miss two starts,[/*:m:4i2lem0j] [*:4i2lem0j]work out of the pen three times, [/*:m:4i2lem0j] [*:4i2lem0j]declare himself fixed, whether it was true or not,[/*:m:4i2lem0j] [*:4i2lem0j]return to the rotation, and[/*:m:4i2lem0j] [*:4i2lem0j]either succeed or fail.[/*:m:4i2lem0j][/list:u:4i2lem0j] Nowatimes, switching somebody from the pen to the rotation or the rotation to the pen is just too much drama, with hours of talk about the trauma of foreshortening his workdays and then stretching them again. But the bullpen is what is they should do.

Ashie62 May 20 2016 12:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Status quo. He starts against the Nats and we shall see. If Cabrera and Conforto make their plays this may be a moot issue. I hope.

Frayed Knot May 20 2016 01:39 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

If Cabrera & Conforto make their plays last night would only have been a smaller disaster. Yeah their errors and/or non-plays (along with Wright making two questionable throws) contributed but let's not wallpaper over the line-drives being hit all over the field last night, even some of the outs were hard. I'm clueless as to what's wrong. There were brief references in the papers as to 'arm slot' issues but, even if so, those didn't just start yesterday and aren't going to make the entire problem go away by tomorrow. Banishment to the bullpen for one go-around might be interesting if only in that it would let him 'air it out' for one trip through the lineup without the fear of getting mugged the 2nd time through which has been his undoing. A day off next Thursday (and the one after that) would allow more like a start and a half gap before he'd need to go again so maybe he'd get a couple of times relieving.

Edgy MD May 20 2016 01:47 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

It's funny, because there were twin ideas years ago, firstly, that a successful starter who was scuffling could work his problems with a temporary trip to the bullpen, and secondly, that a successful reliever who was scuffling could work his problems by getting a start or two. They were somewhat contradictory, but given a lack of options, managers tried them both, often enough.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2016 01:50 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

"Scuffling" is my least favorite baseball euphemism, by the way.

Edgy MD May 20 2016 01:56 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I'm in a funk, posting wise.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2016 02:09 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ah, you're just scuffling.

d'Kong76 May 20 2016 02:16 PM Re: What's next for Harvey? Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 20 2016 02:45 PM

Tuesday=Harveyday! Big. Huge. Rinse, repeat. I don't know what's wrong with him, he looks troubled. Do people still take Quaaludes these days? We slander him a lot, myself included, I hope he's ok. We need The Dark Knight back NOW!!!

MFS62 May 20 2016 02:19 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He's been "working on stuff" between starts and any results haven't been too obvious. I think he needs to do it somewhere else. I voted for two weeks in the minors. (hopefully, they're on a road trip- away from the bright lights of Vegas) Let him work on stuff (mechanics? grip? release point? whatever) away from the constant scrutiny of the New York media and gain back some confidence by getting some hitters out. Later

Ceetar May 20 2016 02:25 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He's too good not to work through it, and I think ultimately he'll be better for it. I don't know what to make of the velocity issues unless they're just mechanics that he's still working on. arm strength. something? Hope it's not a warning sign of injury but if he's truly got less movement too sounds like it's probably mechanics. For the most part he's been sorta okay. Maybe would've been last night with some better defense and some better luck on where those balls were hit. Seems like the best thing for him is to pitch more and work on it. I'd understand if they wanted to try to dodge the Nats before he's right, but I think you gotta throw him back in there. Get back on the horse. Metaphors. Plus, an adjustment might fool the Nats hitters who just saw him. They'll be expecting easy to square up Harvey and if he can get just a little bit more on the pitches, he should fool them nicely.

Frayed Knot May 20 2016 02:35 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He's gone from a career of 7 H/9 to over 12 this season; from 0.6 HRs/9 to 0.9; a 4.78 K/BB ratio to 2.87; and a 2.53 ERA to 5.77 Small sample size or not (and it's a quarter season now so we can debate how small is really small) he ain't even close to sorta OK

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2016 02:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I agree. I have no idea if it's physical, mechanical, mental, or what, but something is definitely very wrong. It may right itself quickly. Or it may not. I expect the Mets will give him at least a little more rope.

TransMonk May 20 2016 02:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Give him a couple weeks in Vegas away from the city and the team. He needs to get right. Harvey's suckitude is not only costing games now, but I'm also weary of trading starting pitchers before the deadline to improve other areas if Harvey isn't himself.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 20 2016 03:23 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I voted disabled list. His "rehab" in St. Lucie actually at a fat farm.

Edgy MD May 20 2016 03:32 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ceetar wrote: He's too good not to work through it, and I think ultimately he'll be better for it. It's pitching, and successful pitching is ephemeral. That list I occasionally refer to of starting pitcher rankings is filled with guys who were a revelation at one point. Now they're bouncing around the league trying to find out where it all went wrong, trying to get the pieces in place again. Dwight Gooden was the greatest pitcher anybody had ever seen for 2 1/2 years. For four years after that, he was just a good pitcher. For the rest of his career, he was just a pitcher. Tim Lincecum was a terror for a few years there. The last guy in the league you wanted to see. Now here he is at 31, so indifferently effective that he's just getting signed in late May. Hasn't even had arm surgery. Maybe he will work through it, but I don't think anybody is too good not to work through it. Sometimes, you never find it again. And that, in addition to injuries, is why long-term deals for pitchers are terrifying. And that's why you build as much redundancy into your staff as possible.

Ashie62 May 20 2016 04:15 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: Tuesday=Harveyday! Big. Huge. Rinse, repeat. I don't know what's wrong with him, he looks troubled. Do people still take Quaaludes these days? We slander him a lot, myself included, I hope he's ok. We need The Dark Knight back NOW!!! He could see whoever inherited Dr. Lans job as the Mets behavorial health practioner. I'd hat to find out he is drinking two six packs a day. Might it be as simple as some people come back from Tommy John better or worse than others?

Edgy MD May 20 2016 04:22 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I believe the man you are looking for is Dr. Jonathan Fader. Dr. Jonathan Fader is a clinical and sport psychologist who works with individuals and organizations to improve mental performance, motivation and enjoyment. Jonathan is also the team psychologist for the New York Mets and co-founder of Union Square Practice, a leading mental wellness clinic in New York City. Foreword by Sandy Alderson! http://jonathanfader.com

Chad Ochoseis May 20 2016 05:02 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I turned on the game in the 4th and he was already gone, so I didn't actually see him, but the consensus seems to be that it's his head, not his arm. So he needs to spend a few weeks somewhere that he can get his head straight again. Somewhere quiet and peaceful, away from all the excitement, bright lights, and wild women. Where he can just focus on pitching, and not his image. Somewhere like Vegas.

d'Kong76 May 20 2016 05:09 PM Re: What's next for Harvey? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 20 2016 05:15 PM

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Somewhere quiet and peaceful, away from all the excitement, bright lights, and wild women. Where he can just focus on pitching, and not his image. Somewhere like Vegas. You funny man! Port St Lucie is probably a better idea (prescription) if it comes to demotion.

Lefty Specialist May 20 2016 05:12 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

You don't send someone to work on things in the PCL if you're trying to build up their cahnfidence. He should go to Port St Lucie or Binghamton if anywhere. Either way, I don't see him (or Boras) accepting a voluntary demotion. So he'll have to straighten things up here while the Mets go a player short (again).

Frayed Knot May 20 2016 05:55 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

And then there’s this ——— GS ERA IP WHiP XBH MATT HARVEY 9 5.77 48.1 1.66 20 STEVEN STRASBURG 9 6.50 44.1 1.69 19 Those are Harvey's 9 starts from this year as compared to Strasberg's first 9 starts in 2015. The bad news in that contrast is that Strasburg did require a trip to the DL a short time later -- two actually, I forget the official reason(s) -- as he started only 3 games between the end of May and early August. The good news is that Strasburg has essentially been the best pitcher in baseball (non-Kershaw division) since returning. In 19 starts covering the final 10 of last season plus his first 9 this year, he's racked up: 2.33 ERA; 0.91 WHiP; 167 K/24 BB; and the Nats are 17-2 in those games

Edgy MD May 20 2016 06:14 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Yeah, I was surprised to see that he was able to salvage his 2015 season, as poorly as it started. I guess I should be encouraged by that now.

Frayed Knot May 20 2016 06:25 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

That Strasberg signed long-term with the Nats when he did was, for a variety of reasons, surprising to most within baseball. That same scenario posed a year ago at this time would have been utterly shocking.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2016 06:36 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I'm beginning to get a glimmer of an idea why Boras "let" Strasburg sign a contract before testing free agency.

cooby May 20 2016 07:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

how do you pronounce this? Trachsel

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 20 2016 07:44 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Trat-Chul

Zvon May 20 2016 07:45 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I always pronounced it Trash-shhhhel

Lefty Specialist May 20 2016 08:01 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

'Slow'.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2016 08:03 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

cooby wrote: how do you pronounce this? Trachsel I remember it as "Traxel"

Zvon May 20 2016 08:09 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: cooby wrote: how do you pronounce this? Trachsel I remember it as "Traxel"

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 20 2016 09:26 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Mets say he makes his next go

bmfc1 May 20 2016 10:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Yeah, sounds like he pitches in DC next week, perhaps on a different day than planned (he's supposed to go Tuesday). I'd like to see Noah pushed back a day so he can face those miserable bastards again.

Zvon May 20 2016 11:11 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

A day earlier than usual? Maybe that's exactly what he needs. I wanted and expected him to make his next start.

cooby May 20 2016 11:23 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I forgot all about him. I think I called him Trash-el

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 23 2016 05:19 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Carig reports Mets feel Harvey's problem is 99% mental (the other half is physical, natch). hey said they considered removing all the shit from his locker and setting it on fire, which apparently, Bobby Pee tried last year too, but I don;t remember hearing of it. Harvey be like: Don't burn my John Varvatos Converse! [url]http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/matt-harvey-will-make-next-mets-start-terry-collins-says-1.11823352

cooby May 24 2016 01:51 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I believe the man you are looking for is Dr. Jonathan Fader. Dr. Jonathan Fader is a clinical and sport psychologist who works with individuals and organizations to improve mental performance, motivation and enjoyment. Jonathan is also the team psychologist for the New York Mets and co-founder of Union Square Practice, a leading mental wellness clinic in New York City. Foreword by Sandy Alderson! http://jonathanfader.com What a boring looking book

Edgy MD May 24 2016 02:05 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Maybe. I tend to think such books are developed and marketed to fly off the shelfs at conventions and industry meetings where the author is among the guest speakers. And they otherwise collect dust in the distribution warehouses.

Ceetar May 24 2016 02:34 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy MD wrote: Maybe. I tend to think such books are developed and marketed to fly off the shelfs at conventions and industry meetings where the author is among the guest speakers. And they otherwise collect dust in the distribution warehouses. Thanks to things like Amazon and print on demand, not as much dust collecting!

Frayed Knot May 24 2016 02:36 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

There's an old joke about books like that: My book was a million seller, they printed a million copies and most of them are sitting in my cellar.

Edgy MD May 24 2016 02:41 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

There's dust in Amazon warehouses too.

seawolf17 May 25 2016 12:38 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Well, shit.

cooby May 25 2016 12:44 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

You know, they did it to Sid, in 1985, or whenever. Temporary demotion that is. Worked for him

Zvon May 25 2016 12:48 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I think he should re-think that mid body weight thing. That's something he can do when he get's older. It'll happen naturally. He should get back in 2013 shape, 2013 weight.

seawolf17 May 25 2016 12:50 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Zvon wrote: I think he should re-think that mid body weight thing. That's something he can do when he get's older. It'll happen naturally. He should get back in 2013 shape, 2013 weight. In Binghamton.

Frayed Knot May 25 2016 12:52 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

24 batters faced, 14 retired, 8 hits including 4 for XB (1 2B + 2 HR) & 2 walks. 1 K Not a lot of ways to sugarcoat that.

Edgy MD May 25 2016 01:05 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He wasn't hurt?

Zvon May 25 2016 01:30 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

seawolf17 wrote: Zvon wrote: I think he should re-think that mid body weight thing. That's something he can do when he get's older. It'll happen naturally. He should get back in 2013 shape, 2013 weight. In Binghamton. He shouldn't step back on a MLB field until he is in that shape. A couple of weeks of hard work. Remember when Matt had a choice of where and all dat? Those days are over.

Zvon May 25 2016 02:42 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

So immediate next was ducking the press after the game tonight. That's real bad. Matt could always own up. Plawecki fielded questions like a trooper.

TransMonk May 25 2016 03:11 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Vegas, baby. Vegas.

MFS62 May 25 2016 03:15 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

His head might be fixed by a trip to the minors, but he's been pitching like his arm is destined for Soylent Green. Later

d'Kong76 May 25 2016 03:19 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Not meeting with the press is never a good thing, especially the NY press. A couple of wheels are already wobbly, this thing can crash at any time.

Nymr83 May 25 2016 03:23 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I'd send his big fat ego and big fat ERA to Vegas. enough is enough.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 03:57 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: Not meeting with the press is never a good thing, especially the NY press. A couple of wheels are already wobbly, this thing can crash at any time. Just read the Newsday account. They're not giving him the slightest break, seemingly upset that Harvey begged for this start only to choke and leave the clubhouse before answering for it. I mean, sounds like they were just dying for the chance to write this story. It sounds like they also think he's a douche, they just couldn't say that when he was a successful douche.

Edgy MD May 25 2016 04:53 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

What's next for Harvey? Well first, the models stop coming. I mean, you still get the models, but not the ones on the way up. You're starting to party with the ones on the way down. Then it's the ones whose career isn't really catching on at all, you know? You try and tell you it makes you a better person, but you're the same guy with less leverage and more denial. You still have that core group of friends, but you're starting to realize that you're bankrolling them. I mean, you knew this all along, but now it's really starting to bother you, because you know not a one of them would be into your act without the free ride. And that's twice now that Spider has asked you if Thor wants to party with you guys. "Call Thor, Matt!" they say, "He seems like a cool dude! I love that guy!!." I got your Thor right here, Spider. But Dimitri... he'll never stop calling. Not until he's soaked you for every ounce. Just once, I'd like to knock out every one of his ugly gold teeth. At least I still got that Quallcomm money. That's guaranteed, right? Crap, I gotta call my agent.

Zvon May 25 2016 06:04 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

MFS62 wrote: His head might be fixed by a trip to the minors, but he's been pitching like his arm is destined for Soylent Green. Later [fimg=400]http://www.fightforfreedom.today/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/soylent-green-750x422.jpg[/fimg] "IT'S PITCHING ARMS! IT'S MADE OF PITCHING ARMS!!" *sob*

batmagadanleadoff May 25 2016 08:27 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Not meeting with the press is never a good thing, especially the NY press. A couple of wheels are already wobbly, this thing can crash at any time. Just read the Newsday account. They're ... upset that Harvey begged for this start only to choke and leave the clubhouse before answering for it. Harvey didn't even stay to talk about Qualcomm.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 10:00 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I get the feeling the Beaters will do anything Terry gives the OK to.

Frayed Knot May 25 2016 12:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 25 2016 01:15 PM

Y'know, I get all that. But the 'we've always known him to be this way it was only a matter of time till it showed' line of writing sounds awfully hollow when you're only trotting it out after he hits rock bottom. (at least we hope he has) Kernan NYPost: It would be pathetic if it weren’t so predictable. This is who Harvey is, the ultimate front-runner, wanting everything his way when times are good and making the rules up as he goes along when they aren’t. His phony act hasn’t just worn thin, it’s worn out. The Mets are worried about his arm? They need to be worried about his heart. If it was so predictable how come you didn't predict it? Or even hint at the idea that maybe this emperor was at least occasionally short of clothes even when not doing SI photo shoots? Oh, I remember why. It's because you (meaning the whole pack of yous, not just Kernan specifically) were too busy slobbering over him while writing about how he was not just a singular talent but one uniquely suited to this time and place. I don't mind them jumping on him, I'm just a bit put off by the 'now it can be revealed (even though I always knew so)' angle. Now what would be really funny -- and by funny I mean totally absurd -- is if Francesa all of a sudden were to jump on this train as well after going from the guy who had barely heard of him to virtually claiming to have discovered him. Man, Mushnick, who dedicates maybe half his column space to calling big Mike out for claiming to have always known but only say so right after they occur, would have fodder to dine out on for months if that were to happen.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 01:14 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Francessa's been all over the Hovvey angle this spring. Good thing most of us with radios will have the game on against him today.

G-Fafif May 25 2016 01:30 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Matt Harvey has lost all confidence in himself. Not just as a pitcher; as a man. Inside that All-Star, there's a minor leaguer who needs to be cuddled and held just like the rest of us. Actually, that's adapted from the Leslie Nielsen episode from the first season of M*A*S*H, when he played Colonel Buzz Brighton. But I keep thinking of those lines re Harvey, who's lately racked up twice as many casualties as any other regimental commander while only gaining half the ground.

MFS62 May 25 2016 01:42 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Francessa's been all over the Hovvey angle this spring. Good thing most of us with radios will have the game on against him today. The best thing is that we can turn to another station when a game isn't on. Later

Lefty Specialist May 25 2016 01:44 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

All I know is that the Tuesday start against the White Sox should be made by someone other than Matt Harvey. Rest, go to the minors and work on things, whatever. But this isn't working.

Centerfield May 25 2016 01:44 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I thought Harvey actually looked better last night. Good life on his fastball, was mixing in his secondary pitches. Questionable throwing those changeups middle in to Zimmerman and Rendon though. Cripes. Throw that changeup low and away. I think for him he's lost a bit on his fastball, and his slider is lacking the bite. That takes him from being an elite pitcher, to a vulnerable one. I think that's really messed up his confidence, and that's the reason he's made the drop from a vulnerable pitcher, to a terrible one. I think the move is to DL him with a "dead arm". Let him get his head straight, rest his arm a bit. Hope that it cures him like it did Strassburg last year. Time his comeback with an Atlanta start and let him start building his confidence a bit. I still think he's going to be fine. Once the weather warms up his fastball will come back, and everything builds off of that. I believe he will find some secondary pitch that will work for him. It's strange. I thought I heard in spring training that his slider was back to being devastating.

Centerfield May 25 2016 01:45 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Oh, and fuck these media guys who are piling on him right now. I get that Harvey is kinda douchey, but questioning a man's character because he's struggling is a dick move.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 02:40 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Carig reporting Hovvey meeting with Warthen, Collins and John Ricco NOW!!!!

Benjamin Grimm May 25 2016 02:50 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Hopefully none of them are naked.

Centerfield May 25 2016 02:50 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Y'know, I get all that. But the 'we've always known him to be this way it was only a matter of time till it showed' line of writing sounds awfully hollow when you're only trotting it out after he hits rock bottom. (at least we hope he has) Kernan NYPost: It would be pathetic if it weren’t so predictable. This is who Harvey is, the ultimate front-runner, wanting everything his way when times are good and making the rules up as he goes along when they aren’t. His phony act hasn’t just worn thin, it’s worn out. The Mets are worried about his arm? They need to be worried about his heart. If it was so predictable how come you didn't predict it? Or even hint at the idea that maybe this emperor was at least occasionally short of clothes even when not doing SI photo shoots? Oh, I remember why. It's because you (meaning the whole pack of yous, not just Kernan specifically) were too busy slobbering over him while writing about how he was not just a singular talent but one uniquely suited to this time and place. I don't mind them jumping on him, I'm just a bit put off by the 'now it can be revealed (even though I always knew so)' angle. Now what would be really funny -- and by funny I mean totally absurd -- is if Francesa all of a sudden were to jump on this train as well after going from the guy who had barely heard of him to virtually claiming to have discovered him. Man, Mushnick, who dedicates maybe half his column space to calling big Mike out for claiming to have always known but only say so right after they occur, would have fodder to dine out on for months if that were to happen. This is actually Mike Vaccaro. http://nypost.com/2016/05/24/silent-mat ... e-enabled/ You know what? Fuck you Mike Vaccaro. What exactly has Matt done to suggest he isn't taking responsibility? Or shouldering the load? His responsibility is to work on his craft and do what it takes to get better. Boo fucking hoo he didn't talk to the media. And it's shocking to me that anyone from the Post can call anyone unprofessional. The same paper that ran juvenile stories, covers and headlines mocking the man's medical situation. A situation that might have been more serious than we know now. Fuck you with a fucking streetlamp.

Edgy MD May 25 2016 03:02 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Of course, by that time, Harvey already had bailed, already had left the ballpark, had refused to stand and be counted the way professionals do, the way athletes who want to be looked at as stars are required to. It was a terrible idea, one that any number of Mets officials — starting with Jeff Wilpon, who was here, and chief PR man David Newman, who was also here — should have anticipated and gotten out ahead of. I think precedent suggests you can't force guys to answer questions if they don't want to. As for "stars," ask Steve Carlton, who spent half of his career shunning the media (and I think we were all better off for it).

G-Fafif May 25 2016 03:11 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Harvey on turn for his next start despite evidence that perhaps he should be winging his way to PSL.

Centerfield May 25 2016 03:12 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Seriously. I think Mike Vaccaro overestimates his role in defining a star player. Not once have I ever said "Man, if only the Mets could get a dominant, flame-throwing ace that makes sure he talks to reporters after every game."

Frayed Knot May 25 2016 03:20 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

This is actually Mike Vaccaro. http://nypost.com/2016/05/24/silent-mat ... e-enabled/ Oh well, I hadn't had my morning vodka yet when I wrote that. You know what? Fuck you Mike Vaccaro. What exactly has Matt done to suggest he isn't taking responsibility? Or shouldering the load? His responsibility is to work on his craft and do what it takes to get better. Boo fucking hoo he didn't talk to the media. I get knocking Harvey for not being there while leaving his teammates to answer all the questions. It's bad form and, for a guy who covets the attention as much as he does, it leaves the impression that he'll bask in it when things are going well but then duck and run when they're not. I just don't like the tactic of using this (as far as I know) lone incident as a jumping off point to say that this is the real Matt Harvey that you knew him to be all long but somehow neglected to mention EVER until just now.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 03:23 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I didn't mean to start a writing-basher thing. Given the Mets are having him start again, maybe the plan is to have the press punish him.

Centerfield May 25 2016 03:25 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Exactly. I agree he should have stuck around. And you can even call him out on that. But like you said, to pretend that this is a character flaw that he knew about all along? Just infuriating. Plus, I admit to still being irritated at the papers for what I felt was a really disrespectful display when dealing with a man's health. It's just mind-boggling to me that anyone who works for a company that uses the headline "URINE LUCK" has any grounds to question someone's professionalism.

Benjamin Grimm May 25 2016 03:40 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I don't know what most fans think, but I really don't care if a player talks to the press all of the time, part of the time, or none of the time. I remember when the Mets got Carlos Delgado, he came with the reputation of being a jerk. But it seemed like he was a great teammate, from what I could tell. His "reputation" came from a low tolerance for reporters, which should matter to nobody but reporters.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 25 2016 03:48 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

This deal sounds a little like the Willie "Cowards in the Night" scandal, press felt betrayed by a story they were on breaking in a way they hadn't expected. Me, I was down on Harvey before it was cool.

TransMonk May 25 2016 03:52 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

WHAT? So, he's going to make his next start? Crazy. At least that one will be an ESPN holiday gay dame against the Chi Sox. It won't just be the local reporters getting to see him, it'll give the national outlets a front-row seat for the suck.

Ceetar May 25 2016 04:16 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

TransMonk wrote: WHAT? So, he's going to make his next start? Crazy. At least that one will be an ESPN holiday gay dame against the Chi Sox. It won't just be the local reporters getting to see him, it'll give the national outlets a front-row seat for the suck. White Sox also aren't really a great hitting team, or a good one. That should help. Start after that is in giant Marlins park against the Marlins, so that should help too. I don't care that he didn't stick around to say the exact same thing he said after the last game. Harvey's douchiness or whatever you want to call it doesn't bother me, and that's irrelevant to his success on the field. I don't expect people to change based on the results of the game and I don't agree that players that are winning should 'get away with it'.

d'Kong76 May 25 2016 04:18 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Silent Knight is kinda funny. National disaster! Haha I get the reactions -- yay, nay, don't care -- but not taking 5-10 minutes to face the fire is easier in the long run. He has enough problems without exacerbating them by creating another brush fire. I have this dark cloud feeling this is all going to end very sadly.

Ashie62 May 25 2016 04:33 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Harvey has been humbled athletically for the first time in his life.. EASE UP! Tabloids suck. No Las Vegas. I would leave him in or, repeat or, split a game with Colon.

Ceetar May 25 2016 04:40 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

The thing is, you know the media just wants him to go down to Vegas so he can come back so they can have some Dark Knight Rises references for later in the season. So transparent.

TransMonk May 25 2016 04:51 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I want Harvey to go down because he is costing the team wins. Give him a head to toe MRI to rule out any injury he may be hiding and then send him away for three starts in the minors. If he's not hurt, then it is in his head. Let him work with Viola. Let him get away from the media and the city and the team. I agree with letting him work it out, but not at the expense of more ML losses. What is the definition of insanity again?

d'Kong76 May 25 2016 04:53 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ceetar wrote: The thing is, you know the media just wants him to go down to Vegas so he can come back so they can have some Dark Knight Rises references for later in the season. So transparent. I disagree. You think they sit around in a conference room hoping that Player A does this or Player B does that so in August they can use a head- line that they've already conjured up? Dude, that's just mad! They report (or distort) the news on an hourly basis nowadays. They don't have a season-long plan for Harvey or even a team for that matter.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 25 2016 05:03 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Maybe they just should have burned his stuff, after all.

Edgy MD May 25 2016 05:15 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I'm guessing he talks to the press before his next start. I don't go for that definition of insanity. It's not a real definition of insanity for one thing. For another, sometimes continuing on the same course despite failure does indeed lead to success. Nothing crazy about that. That said, I'm not sure what I'd do. Probably the pen. Swap him with Verrett.

d'Kong76 May 25 2016 05:19 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy refutes Einstein, details at 11!

themetfairy May 25 2016 05:21 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Centerfield wrote: Exactly. I agree he should have stuck around. And you can even call him out on that. But like you said, to pretend that this is a character flaw that he knew about all along? Just infuriating. Plus, I admit to still being irritated at the papers for what I felt was a really disrespectful display when dealing with a man's health. It's just mind-boggling to me that anyone who works for a company that uses the headline "URINE LUCK" has any grounds to question someone's professionalism. This. The media has been ridiculous towards Harvey this season. In an ideal world he would have spoken to the media last night, but if he was so upset that he might have blown up and said something he would have regretted then IMO he was better off staying quiet.

Ceetar May 25 2016 05:42 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: The thing is, you know the media just wants him to go down to Vegas so he can come back so they can have some Dark Knight Rises references for later in the season. So transparent. I disagree. You think they sit around in a conference room hoping that Player A does this or Player B does that so in August they can use a head- line that they've already conjured up? Dude, that's just mad! They report (or distort) the news on an hourly basis nowadays. They don't have a season-long plan for Harvey or even a team for that matter. There's a lot of downtime in the press box during games/approaching games. They already pre-write game stories in the 5th inning based on a narrative they see developing, they certainly see potential developing storylines down the road.

d'Kong76 May 25 2016 05:57 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Well, that's a pretty waffley response. It's not transparent to me what you initially wrote. RIP, Dark Knight is just as stupid as Dark Knight Rises so they're not sitting around rooting or planning for one outcome or the other. They'll report (distort) whatever happens.

Ashie62 May 25 2016 11:53 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

We will hear it all, good,bad or indifferent. I still kinda like the Colon 5 innings Harvey 4 gambit. I am not a fan of Verrett. If it comes to one start I would pull up Ynoa and hope the lack of familiarity get him through the opponents two times round.

Lefty Specialist May 26 2016 01:18 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Well, I'm just pissed because I have tickets for Monday's game.

TransMonk May 26 2016 01:29 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Then you'll get to witness the resurrection in person. Lucky duck.

Zvon May 26 2016 02:29 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ashie62 wrote: I still kinda like the Colon 5 innings Harvey 4 gambit. I'm not up on what's up. Do you mean Matt starts, Colon comes in? Or Colon starts and Matt comes in?

cooby May 26 2016 01:36 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Y'know, I get all that. But the 'we've always known him to be this way it was only a matter of time till it showed' line of writing sounds awfully hollow when you're only trotting it out after he hits rock bottom. (at least we hope he has) Kernan NYPost: It would be pathetic if it weren’t so predictable. This is who Harvey is, the ultimate front-runner, wanting everything his way when times are good and making the rules up as he goes along when they aren’t. His phony act hasn’t just worn thin, it’s worn out. The Mets are worried about his arm? They need to be worried about his heart. If it was so predictable how come you didn't predict it? Or even hint at the idea that maybe this emperor was at least occasionally short of clothes even when not doing SI photo shoots? Oh, I remember why. It's because you (meaning the whole pack of yous, not just Kernan specifically) were too busy slobbering over him while writing about how he was not just a singular talent but one uniquely suited to this time and place. I don't mind them jumping on him, I'm just a bit put off by the 'now it can be revealed (even though I always knew so)' angle. Now what would be really funny -- and by funny I mean totally absurd -- is if Francesa all of a sudden were to jump on this train as well after going from the guy who had barely heard of him to virtually claiming to have discovered him. Man, Mushnick, who dedicates maybe half his column space to calling big Mike out for claiming to have always known but only say so right after they occur, would have fodder to dine out on for months if that were to happen. This is actually Mike Vaccaro. http://nypost.com/2016/05/24/silent-mat ... e-enabled/ You know what? Fuck you Mike Vaccaro. What exactly has Matt done to suggest he isn't taking responsibility? Or shouldering the load? His responsibility is to work on his craft and do what it takes to get better. Boo fucking hoo he didn't talk to the media. And it's shocking to me that anyone from the Post can call anyone unprofessional. The same paper that ran juvenile stories, covers and headlines mocking the man's medical situation. A situation that might have been more serious than we know now. Fuck you with a fucking streetlamp. That's pretty rough (vacarro, not CF). Is he always that mean?

Ashie62 May 26 2016 04:28 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Zvon wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I still kinda like the Colon 5 innings Harvey 4 gambit. I'm not up on what's up. Do you mean Matt starts, Colon comes in? Or Colon starts and Matt comes in? Colon starts and goes 5 then Harvey.

d'Kong76 May 26 2016 07:48 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

The Captain chimes in...

Lefty Specialist May 26 2016 08:08 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Well, we already crossed our fingers and all we got for our trouble was sore fingers. Terry's of the mindset that you have play through it, but a couple more disasters and he'll have to change his tune. I got the feeling that the White Sox will shred what's left of his cape on Monday.

Zvon May 26 2016 08:11 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ashie62 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I still kinda like the Colon 5 innings Harvey 4 gambit. I'm not up on what's up. Do you mean Matt starts, Colon comes in? Or Colon starts and Matt comes in? Colon starts and goes 5 then Harvey. I most certainly would do it the other way around. Colon has done this before and it doesn't matter if you use him 1st or last. He'll adjust np. I do think it's important that Matt starts the game. Harvey to start, no limit written in stone, but plan on 4 full and any bumps in the 5th, pull him for Colon. The unspoken goal would be 6 innings, but he won't be told that (Colon should be made aware of everything). The working plan would be 5 full, if & when he hits that wall (usually the 5th), NEXT! I was surprised they didn't send him down.

Edgy MD May 26 2016 08:12 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I think a bullpen assignment for Harvey needs not necessarily pre-schedule his appearances.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 26 2016 08:21 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Makes no sense at all

Zvon May 26 2016 08:27 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I think he's saying put Matt in the pen and use him out of the pen like any other reliever.

Frayed Knot May 26 2016 08:31 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: The Captain chimes in... As this points out, and as Ronnie said also the other night, the sin in not making oneself available to the press on those days when you are the biggest story is that it makes said player lose credibility with his teammates. That the press sometimes views issues like these as if a personal affront against them is annoying but it doesn't make them wrong in saying that it's a problem. And if the night is so bad that you feel you truly need a cooling off period then skipping the occasional time now or then wouldn't be so bad but Harvey was still pulling the silent act the next day too.

d'Kong76 May 26 2016 08:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 26 2016 09:31 PM

Ashie62 wrote: Colon starts and goes 5 then Harvey. This is less likely to happen than Joan Payson throwing a first pitch in 2016. Frayed Knot wrote: As this points out, and as Ronnie said also the other night, the sin in not making oneself available to the press on those days when you are the biggest story is that it makes said player lose credibility with his teammates. That the press sometimes views issues like these as if a personal affront against them is annoying but it doesn't make them wrong in saying that it's a problem. And if the night is so bad that you feel you truly need a cooling off period then skipping the occasional time now or then wouldn't be so bad but Harvey was still pulling the silent act the next day too. Right, a minute or two of 'sorry guys, I was a mess last night and couldn't talk and I know you have a job to do too try not to do it again' goes a long way. It's just good sense and professional courtesy? That's just me.

soupcan May 26 2016 08:44 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

This has gotten completely out of hand. Should he have addressed the media? Sure....I guess. Honestly I didn't care. There was nothing new I was going to learn about his struggles. What more was he going to say that he hadn't already said after his other lousy starts? He feels fine, he doesn't know what the problem is, he hopes he can work through it. I'm not his biggest fan either but the guy has been completely stand-up prior to to the other night. Give him a break, he's bummed out. So would all of us be.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 26 2016 08:45 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

There's that extraordinary clip of Wright and Harvey encountering one another on the field following Harvey's bullshit drama that nearly cost us that 8-7 game last September that says more than a 1,000 Mike Vaccaro columns could. Looking... bam [url]https://vine.co/v/eT3TdV0lIIB

d'Kong76 May 26 2016 08:50 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: This has gotten completely out of hand. Sure has, but it's an off day. And, it's out of hand because he is a lightning rod. He created it with awesome pitching and off-field stories and you can't just 'dis' (I hate that term, but used it anyway) the NY media and not expect to get baked for it when your chips are down. If this was Verrett, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

cooby May 26 2016 08:59 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Yeah the off day has given the press to much time with this

Zvon May 26 2016 09:08 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: Colon starts and goes 5 then Harvey. This is less likely to happen than Joan Payson throwing a first pitch in 2016. Not my quote, thank you very much. :) I endorse the opposite.

Ceetar May 26 2016 09:12 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: soupcan wrote: This has gotten completely out of hand. Sure has, but it's an off day. And, it's out of hand because he is a lightning rod. He created it with awesome pitching and off-field stories and you can't just 'dis' (I hate that term, but used it anyway) the NY media and not expect to get baked for it when your chips are down. If this was Verrett, we wouldn't be having this discussion. if it was deGrom we wouldn't be having this conversation, but again, why does it matter? He doesn't deserve more or less praise/grief just because the way he choices to lead is life is a juicier story for the media. Those things are unrelated. And let's not forget it was the media that dubbed Harvey the Dark Knight to begin with. The media is tapping him on the shoulder and going "Made you look!" There was some talk about closing the clubhouse to the media permanently not to long ago, and only making some players available in a defined space. I'm all for that, and while the starting pitcher would probably be required to speak after his starts, maybe a little bit bigger buffer would help.

Zvon May 26 2016 09:17 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Bottomline: 99% of Mets fans don't care if Harvey talks to the press or not after what he has gone though recently. It's concerning but we don't hold it against him. The media does care, but not in the way we do (or don't), and they can be little whining babies if they don't get their way. Giving a void for them to fill in themselves is never a good thing, especially with those NYC rags.

d'Kong76 May 26 2016 09:38 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Colon starts and goes 5 then Harvey. This is less likely to happen than Joan Payson throwing a first pitch in 2016. Not my quote, thank you very much. :) I endorse the opposite. Sorry, fixed... In my effort to give Ash a ribbin' Wasn't mindful when submittin'

Zvon May 26 2016 09:49 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I agree with you and I'm a bit surprised that this Colon starting the game business is even being bandied about. We have used Colon many ways and it doesn't faze him. Nor phase him. So he should be the backup. No big whup about the quote. Shit happens.

Frayed Knot May 27 2016 12:20 AM Re: What's next for Harvey? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 27 2016 03:17 AM

Zvon wrote: 99% of Mets fans don't care if Harvey talks to the press or not after what he has gone though recently. It's concerning but we don't hold it against him. No, but his teammates care and don't appreciate being left to talk about his bad night because he refused to. And when those guys who buy their ink by the barrel start writing about how Harvey is coping with this mess, not only are they going to be predisposed to knock him for how he's handled things and made their job a PitA but they just might also get some piling-on tidbits (even if anonymous ones) from some of those same disgruntled players.

Frayed Knot May 27 2016 12:25 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: There's that extraordinary clip of Wright and Harvey encountering one another on the field following Harvey's bullshit drama that nearly cost us that 8-7 game last September that says more than a 1,000 Mike Vaccaro columns could. Looking... bam [url]https://vine.co/v/eT3TdV0lIIB Remind me what the drama was involving that game. Harvey's final pitch that night was a bases-loaded single which wound up scoring four runs because of a tacked-on error which made the score 7-1 Nats. Minus context that brief clip, while not exactly warm & fuzzy, doesn't say much.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 27 2016 01:38 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I may already have my timing wrong but this was amid the drama of Harvey waffling on making his start. As I recall it, it was all hands on deck and balls to wall before he dropped the Diva Bomb. Will look up the exact time.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 27 2016 01:56 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

yeah this happened in waffletime, before that 8-7 win but while Harvey was "focused in Tuesday" Wright also made it a point to dress down Harvey when he missed a workout a few weeks later.

Edgy MD May 27 2016 12:06 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

So, if you want to see that narrative, you have to make the uncomfortable choice, either Wright is an overbearing hardass, or Harvey is a self-centered and disruptive diva. You don't have to see that narrative. You can believe too much is being made of nothing, and we're drawing inferences from an exchange on video that aren't necessarily there. But if you do see something, that's where you're at.

seawolf17 May 27 2016 12:30 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy MD wrote: So, if you want to see that narrative, you have to make the uncomfortable choice, either Wright is an overbearing hardass, or Harvey is a self-centered and disruptive diva. You don't have to see that narrative. You can believe too much is being made of nothing, and we're drawing inferences from an exchange on video that aren't necessarily there. But if you do see something, that's where you're at. Agree. So Wright and Harvey aren't friends. Who gives a frig? They just have to work together.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 27 2016 12:39 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

It's not about being friends, but co-workers, yes. Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself?

batmagadanleadoff May 27 2016 01:01 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself? Yes. All you have to do is to watch that Qualcomm fiasco of an interview with Dan Patrick. It"s an extraordinarily revealing exchange that singlehandedly demonstrates how oblivious Harvey is.

themetfairy May 27 2016 01:06 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Isn't it obvious to everyone that Harvey has no idea how to conduct himself? Yes. All you have to do is to watch that Qualcomm fiasco of an interview with Dan Patrick. It"s an extraordinarily revealing exchange that singlehandedly demonstrates how oblivious Harvey is. And this is where Scott Boras has really failed Harvey. Boras has a stud client who obviously doesn't know how to handle these situations, and he's totally dropped the ball in preparing him for them.

Edgy MD May 27 2016 01:10 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy.

TransMonk May 27 2016 01:29 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

There's also the organization (media staff, manager, teammates, etc) that, at times, has allowed themselves to be bullied by Harvey.

Edgy MD May 27 2016 01:48 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

There's certainly that. I wonder how much Sandy being sick has put the team in a position where folks can't push back while feeling that their back is covered all the way to top.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 27 2016 01:52 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I wouldn't be so sure that Boras has neglected to reign in Harvey. No doubt Boras supports Harvey's Q rating, but for all we know he drives him nuts too.

d'Kong76 May 27 2016 02:05 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He very well could be a hey-you-work-for-me-and-if-you-don't-like-it- I'll-go-find-another-agent-so-get-off-my-back type client. I'm Harvey'd out... will revisit Harveymania late Monday afternoon hopefully with a happy recap.

Ceetar May 27 2016 02:05 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy. you don't _have_ to see that narrative. I think Wright likes Harvey just fine. I don't think Harvey is particularly bothered by the media being pissed with him, but occasionally Wright plays the Captain card and reminds him that his choices might be affecting the rest of the team. And I bet there's a difference between talking about Harvey's bad outing versus Harvey's innings limit. No one got asked questions the other day that they weren't going to be asked anyway. Especially Plawecki. But having the media maraud into the clubhouse asking Michael Conforto what he thinks about the organization and Harvey's plan for pitching the rest of the season is a little more of a burden. Though, not that much bigger, and in a lot of cases the media is going to go and ask those guys anyway, trying to dig up dirt or just not happy with Harvey's cultivated answers. It's also worth noting that it's a little contradictory to say Harvey's not a great under the spotlights interview and also criticize him for not speaking in the heat of the moment.

Lefty Specialist May 27 2016 02:09 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: He very well could be a hey-you-work-for-me-and-if-you-don't-like-it- I'll-go-find-another-agent-so-get-off-my-back type client. I'm Harvey'd out... will revisit Harveymania late Monday afternoon hopefully with a happy recap. Don't get your hopes up. The White Sox are throwing Sale on Monday.

Edgy MD May 27 2016 02:26 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy. you don't _have_ to see that narrative. I don't, but we've specifically seen him bully his way past Horwitz and Collins. Horwitz is old. Shannon Forde was dying. Collins was — at least at the time of the World Series confrontation — short, old, and without a contract in the most important moment of his baseball life. The catchers are big-league babies fighting for their careers. All of these people, while nominally having some authority over Harvey, arin reality only have juice as long as they can be confident that Alderson has their backs. And with Alderson sick and perhaps not in general circulation (particularly this offseason), that authority seemingly defers to Jeff. And who can feel confident looking to Jeff Wilpon as the strong guy who has your back? So, really, through the last year, the best hope for standing up to Butch in the last year has been David Wright. And Wright spent a good deal of that time away from the team.

Centerfield May 27 2016 02:36 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

d'Kong76 wrote: The Captain chimes in... Weighing in late here. Love David, but I don't agree with this at all. As a team captain, I think he should stick up for his teammates or say nothing at all. There is no reason to have your team captain pile on and vindicate the media. I especially don't like the part where it seems he's talking to the media before talking to Harvey. I know it's not David's style and he has a great relationship with the media, and that's fine. But if I'm on the Mets, I want my team captain standing behind me. "Hey Mike Vaccaro, what headline did you run when my teammate was in the hospital? Yeah, that's right. Go fuck yourself." This is the same criticism I had of Derek Jeter when ARod joined the Yankees and was getting booed for struggling at 3B. The team captain should have said "Look, he's a gold glove SS that unselfishly agreed to switch positions for the good of the team. The fans should recognize that and support him." But he didn't. Acting largely out of self-interest, Jeter didn't. He said something along the lines of "Alex Rodriguez is a professional and needs to deal with it." Gotta protect your player and address it internally. Now, I don't think David's acting out of self-interest, like Jeter (I also don't think David is an overrated dickhead fraud), but David has a duty to protect his teammates here. No matter what he or other teammates might think, the company line has to be "Harvey is our teammate. He's struggling but we believe in him. We are behind him 100%." Clearly David, and others, have issue with what Harvey did, and that's fine. Address it internally. Look, Harvey seems like he's kinda dumb. Needs a lot of hand-holding. Help him out David.

Ceetar May 27 2016 02:47 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Actually Wright's comments DO defend Harvey. He's saying that Harvey IS an accountable guy, and should've talked to the media so that they don't think he's not accountable. He then went on to say "I think sometimes it's time to give somebody a little bit of space before you start talking about these things" That's spin for "Fuck off, he was in a bad mood and needed some time to brood a bit"

G-Fafif May 27 2016 04:01 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Don't worry, the columns can get dumber. Witness the perpetually sour Anthony Rieber in Newsday. Five days after the World Series ended last year, CC Sabathia sat down for a network television interview about the alcoholism that caused him to seek treatment on the day before the Yankees began the postseason. Sabathia was interviewed again about that topic several times over the offseason as he participated in charity events. He answered questions about it again when he reported to spring training in February. This is much, much more difficult than facing the media after a rough start, and it’s much, much more important. Much has been said this week about another New York pitcher who refused to talk to the media after his latest in a string of poor outings. That other pitcher was criticized for leaving his teammates to talk for him, which is a no-no in major league clubhouses. Use Sabathia's alcoholism and apparently more pleasant personality as a cudgel against the unnamed pitcher (ha, he won't identify Harvey specifically -- showed him). "Hi, I'm Anthony and I'm a fucking idiot." Dude also gets a plug in for MFY accountability.

Edgy MD May 27 2016 04:16 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

The other thing is that he's crediting Sabathia for being forthcoming in controlled and prepped interviews on his own terms. More power to him, but whatever you think of Harvey's cutting out, him sitting down right after the game is more like the equivalent of Sabathia talking about his alcoholism the morning after a bender. Sabathia spoke five days after the World Series? Well, that gives Harvey a little over six months to be forthcoming enough to live up to the Sabathia gold standard.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 27 2016 04:38 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy MD wrote: And while the Mets certainly have a media staff that can train (or at least guide) him, Harvey has bullied his way through them too, seemingly caught up in the notion that until he gets the big payday, everybody associated with the organization is the enemy. To an extent, doesn't it make sense that someone who motivates himself on-field with a snarling-warrior mindset would have something of the same leak into his approach to other fields of play?

Edgy MD May 27 2016 04:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Perhaps, but he's, you know, supposed to be a grown-up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 27 2016 04:45 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

[Scowls] [Stomps around a bit, fondling rosin bag] [Adjusts pajama-like uniform; spits in public view]

Zvon May 27 2016 07:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Centerfield wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: The Captain chimes in... Weighing in late here. Love David, but I don't agree with this at all. As a team captain, I think he should stick up for his teammates or say nothing at all. There is no reason to have your team captain pile on and vindicate the media. I especially don't like the part where it seems he's talking to the media before talking to Harvey. I know it's not David's style and he has a great relationship with the media, and that's fine. But if I'm on the Mets, I want my team captain standing behind me. "Hey Mike Vaccaro, what headline did you run when my teammate was in the hospital? Yeah, that's right. Go fuck yourself." This is the same criticism I had of Derek Jeter when ARod joined the Yankees and was getting booed for struggling at 3B. The team captain should have said "Look, he's a gold glove SS that unselfishly agreed to switch positions for the good of the team. The fans should recognize that and support him." But he didn't. Acting largely out of self-interest, Jeter didn't. He said something along the lines of "Alex Rodriguez is a professional and needs to deal with it." Gotta protect your player and address it internally. Now, I don't think David's acting out of self-interest, like Jeter (I also don't think David is an overrated dickhead fraud), but David has a duty to protect his teammates here. No matter what he or other teammates might think, the company line has to be "Harvey is our teammate. He's struggling but we believe in him. We are behind him 100%." Clearly David, and others, have issue with what Harvey did, and that's fine. Address it internally. Look, Harvey seems like he's kinda dumb. Needs a lot of hand-holding. Help him out David. I agree with CF. Now if this was the 2nd or 3rd time he's done this (IIRC this was the first), okay, get a msg out. But after the last few outings and the way the media started circling like sharks, if I was The Captain my main concern would have been shielding/ deflecting for Matt at this time. I would have had his back and not gone the cliche or team route. I would have personally stood up for him.

batmagadanleadoff May 28 2016 04:15 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Eureka! Mets have identified mechanical flaw in Matt Harvey By Mike Puma May 27, 2016 | 8:43pm Matt Harvey was back in the laboratory Friday searching for the perfect form. Instead of throwing a bullpen session, the scuffling Mets right-hander — for the second time in less than a week — held a between-starts workout on the field, with a batter standing in the box. The purpose, according to manager Terry Collins, was to correct a flaw in Harvey’s mechanics that team officials have spotted during recent games. “We’re seeing some things in certain situations when the hitters are in there that he’s doing mechanically that we’ve got to get fixed,” Collins said before the Mets faced the Dodgers. “Therefore we wanted hitters in there, even though it’s tough to simulate a regular game, but at least when you’ve got a hitter in the batter’s box, [Harvey] is looking at things a little differently.” Harvey, who is 3-7 with a 6.08 ERA, is scheduled to pitch at Citi Field on Monday. In his start against the Nationals on Tuesday, Harvey allowed three home runs and was removed after the fifth inning. The middle innings have doomed Harvey this season — opponents are batting .413 against him after the third inning. The Mets have ruled out the possibility Harvey is tipping his pitches. “There’s things going on the second time through the order that he’s doing, and I’m not going to get into them,” Collins said. “We’re seeing stuff he’s doing on the mound that it’s not giving away, but it’s keeping him from having the ability to make the pitches he needs to make. We’re seeing the velocity drop, and there’s a reason for that. We’re seeing lack of command for his breaking ball.” http://nypost.com/2016/05/27/mets-have- ... tt-harvey/

Benjamin Grimm May 28 2016 11:33 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Enough with "scuffling" already! The word isn't nearly adequate to convey how awful he's been.

Edgy MD May 28 2016 01:05 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

You're fighting a one-man war on the word, there! I think it's got some interesting connotations. On one hand, it borrows from the words earlier meaning of "fighting," as in the player is fighting himself, and on the other, it's got some onomatopoeia qualities, filled with the friction of a machine whose gears aren't properly oiled, whose parts need calibrating. I understand you don't think it's strong enough, but "sucking" is filled with sexual connotation (and gay sexual connotation), and so I imagine players and coaches are sensitive about using it in a tense situation, and writers too. There's a hit-and-miss about which papers will allow it. "Struggling" is probably the best play there, but I'm guessing the writers have picked up "scuffling" from its frequent clubhouse usage.

Centerfield May 28 2016 01:25 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

You could always just go with "terrible".

Edgy MD Jul 05 2016 04:55 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I hope we never get rid of Harvey. He just generates such lively discussions! [fimg=600:3k46hhsr]https://metsinpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/screen-shot-2016-07-05-at-12-52-26-pm.png[/fimg:3k46hhsr]

TransMonk Jul 05 2016 05:29 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

With three starters (Noah, Jacob and Bart) having ERAs sub-3.00 and Matz with an ERA sub-3.50...could Harvey be the odd man out if/when Wheeler returns? It's likely at least a month away, but I'm wondering how long Harvey can rely on patience.

G-Fafif Jul 06 2016 09:42 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Placed on the DL with shoulder discomfort. Lugo up.

themetfairy Jul 06 2016 09:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

From Mets Twitter - Harvey was seen by #Mets doctors and has been referred to Dr. Thompson in St. Louis for further examination set to take place on Thursday.

d'Kong76 Jul 06 2016 11:21 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

15 day DL, shoulder discomfort.

Ashie62 Jul 06 2016 11:57 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Poop. That really stretches the Starting pitching. Can we trade Reyes for a pitcher?

Ashie62 Jul 07 2016 12:10 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

To be tested for arterial blockage. Same possible issue as Gee and Cone. From the Dark Knight to this.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 12:19 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

And if it's blocked they unblock it and - PRESTO! - the Dark Knight Returns!

cooby Jul 07 2016 12:35 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ya know, this wheeler dude is a complete intangible for me. Harvey seems a little young for these problems he's having but aren't we all. I think wheeler should be trade bait.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2016 12:41 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: And if it's blocked they unblock it and - PRESTO! - the Dark Knight Returns! Well, in Cone's case, it was the majority of the year missed.

d'Kong76 Jul 07 2016 01:32 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

G-Fafif wrote: Placed on the DL with shoulder discomfort. Lugo up. Sorry, in my haste I missed last scoop on previous page.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 01:41 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Edgy MD wrote: soupcan wrote: And if it's blocked they unblock it and - PRESTO! - the Dark Knight Returns! Well, in Cone's case, it was the majority of the year missed. Cone had a 'clot', Harvey's got a 'block'. Totally different word.

Frayed Knot Jul 07 2016 02:00 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: soupcan wrote: And if it's blocked they unblock it and - PRESTO! - the Dark Knight Returns! Well, in Cone's case, it was the majority of the year missed. Cone had a 'clot', Harvey's got a 'block'. Totally different word. Oh good, For a second there I thought he might have had an obstruction or, even worse, a clog.

Lefty Specialist Jul 07 2016 11:45 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2016 11:52 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

From this article, it looks like there's a good chance he's done for the year: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.2701775 The best hope, it seems, is that he has a herniated disc that's responsive to an injection.

seawolf17 Jul 07 2016 12:43 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Shoulda traded him this offseason. Oh well.

Frayed Knot Jul 07 2016 01:08 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Elbow injuries -- and specifically TJ surgury -- have gotten all the publicity in recent years, but shoulders are a lot more complicated.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 01:47 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Lefty Specialist wrote: Exactly. So I was watching and listening to sports programs and sports radio and all these goons are saying that there's 'no way' the Mets can get back to the WS without a top-notch Harvey. Because, they rationalize, that last year the Mets had the luxury of of being able to put Colon and whoever else in the bullpen while their upper echelon guys were given the starts. Without Harvey, they are now short of a top-flight starter so they won't be in that position. Am I mistaken or is Zack Wheeler not expected back this month? And if healthy - no reason to believe he won't be - doesn't Wheeler sort of slot right in to Harvey's spot? And if so, doesn't that then allow the Mets to set up a possible postseason staff in a similar way to last year? Granted, there's a few assumptions but even so, not one of these supposed sports media 'professionals' even mentioned Wheeler. They all seem to be harping on the doom and gloom aspect of this. On SNY they even had a doctor (may have been the actual guy that they consulted on Harv, if not the guy thats seeing him today) and this guy even said that its a distinct possibility that this could be fixed with a relatively minor proceedure. He also said that it may be a more significant proceedure invloving the removal of a rib. But again - even if its that dire, the Doc said that he performed THAT proceedure on Josh Beckett and Beckett came back just fine. Kenny Rogers too! Why they gotta be so negative man? I'm looking at this as a good thing. If in fact the Thoracic Outlet Syndrome is causing Harvey numbness, it probably explains everything. His velocity is fine, its his feel for the ball which he says his resulting in his problems with location. Get the Roto-Rooter truck working and Lets Go!

d'Kong76 Jul 07 2016 01:59 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

seawolf17 wrote: Shoulda traded him this offseason. Oh well. Phwamo!

Edgy MD Jul 07 2016 02:01 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Yeah, I'm trying to see this as a blessing. Who needs a glum, miserable, and ineffective Harvey hanging over the team like a tobacco-spitting storm cloud?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2016 02:09 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

NY Post's Kevin Kernan was interviewed on the FAN this morning and I thought shared a surprising amount of insight about Hovvey. Paraphrasing, he says he feels Harvey would continue to encounter issues physical or non-physical, until or unless he learns to stop taking himself so seriously and get into a frame of mind where he can enjoy the whole act of competing as a baseball player. He mentioned for instance that it isn't just a matter of communicating through the "Players Tribune" or refusing to take questions from writers, but not even saying hello to them. Kernan feels that this behavior has put Harvey in a bubble that has estranged him even from teammates, and that he is hyper sensitive to criticism and can't relax. This all rung very true to me as an observer: His demeanor was exciting to watch when he was going well but it cannot be the only thing he has going for him when his skills slide or the going gets rough. Anyway, I was rooting for a disabled list assignment from the start of this poll (and advocated a trade way back when but that ship sailed). I think a break is exactly what Harvey needs, and surgery to remove his head from his ass is long overdue.

Vic Sage Jul 07 2016 02:20 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

i've never seen that type of surgery work before. I think it should be at the top of medical research's "to do" list.

Ceetar Jul 07 2016 02:26 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Personally I take nothing from Kernan's armchair psychiatrist act, especially when he mentions the media interactions. Maybe Harvey's wound too tight, wouldn't be the first guy, but plenty of guys actually thrive that way. Double-standard. I'd need to hear something beyond "I think he needs to loosen up" before I believed it was causing issues, especially in the wake of an actual medical issue that seems like it has a much larger chance of causing mental or physical harm. Or maybe he should let loose like his idol Jeter and demand apologies for tweeting about tickets he gets.

cooby Jul 07 2016 02:29 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Vic Sage wrote: i've never seen that type of surgery work before. I think it should be at the top of medical research's "to do" list. Yeah

soupcan Jul 07 2016 04:42 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Ceetar wrote: Personally I take nothing from Kernan's armchair psychiatrist act, especially when he mentions the media interactions. Maybe Harvey's wound too tight, wouldn't be the first guy, but plenty of guys actually thrive that way. Double-standard. I'd need to hear something beyond "I think he needs to loosen up" before I believed it was causing issues, especially in the wake of an actual medical issue that seems like it has a much larger chance of causing mental or physical harm. Agreed. Whats Kiernan saying? That if Harvey were nicer to him he wouldnt get hurt so much? STFU.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2016 04:54 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

No that he observes him every day and concluded that he's a tightly wound, alienated, unfriendly, unsuccessful fuckup

Ashie62 Jul 07 2016 04:59 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I thought maybe this was really a lifestyle issue. I believe he smokes and drinks some. Best wishes dude. Red Sox breathe a sigh of relief.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 07 2016 05:00 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

He's saying that Harvey's a douchebag. Which any real Mets follower already knows.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 05:07 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

And so was Steve Carlton and a million other douchebag players. To say thats the reason he continues to get hurt is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2016 05:23 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Forget it. That's not what he said. He said his being a douchebag was a problem regardless of his health

soupcan Jul 07 2016 05:42 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Forget it. That's not what he said. He said his being a douchebag was a problem regardless of his health So clear it up. From what you wrote before it sounded like Kiernan made a connection from being a douche to being hurt. Is that wrong?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2016 05:53 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

As for how this affects the Mets, it's a shame that they won't have the Matt Harvey of 2015, but they already didn't have that Matt Harvey. I don't think that whatever Logan Verrett provides will be much less than what Harvey was doing. I looked to see who might be available at AAA, and these are the 51s who have started the most games this season: [list:5v7chqqu]Gabriel Ynoa (17 starts, 9-3, 3.92 ERA) Rafael Montero (16 starts, 4-6, 7.20 ERA) Duane Below (15 starts, 4-7, 4.53 ERA) Sean Gilmartin (13 starts, 9-3, 4.48 ERA) Seth Lugo (13 starts, 3-4, 6.55 ERA)[/list:u:5v7chqqu] I had forgotten about Rafael Montero! That 7.20 ERA looks something other than appealing.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 06:16 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

What's Wheeler's status? Wasn't he supposed to be good to go following the All Star break?

G-Fafif Jul 07 2016 06:17 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Hope his burger-flipping doesn't suffer as a result of the discomfort. [youtube]wujOmTnXmxE[/youtube]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2016 06:17 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Forget it. That's not what he said. He said his being a douchebag was a problem regardless of his health So clear it up. From what you wrote before it sounded like Kiernan made a connection from being a douche to being hurt. Is that wrong? Yeah that's not what I meant to convey. Sorry. Just pretend I said he thinks Harvey is a douche and that his state of mind is wrong for baseball.

d'Kong76 Jul 07 2016 06:22 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: What's Wheeler's status? Wasn't he supposed to be good to go following the All Star break? He's behind schedule with some setbacks.

TransMonk Jul 07 2016 06:47 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I would not expect to see Wheeler before August 1 at the earliest. He resumed throwing last Monday after his latest setback, but the team has not given a timetable for his return.

soupcan Jul 07 2016 06:48 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

August 1st is fine.

G-Fafif Jul 07 2016 07:32 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Sandy to address the media at 3:45. Go to a secure location.

bmfc1 Jul 07 2016 07:33 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Announcing a big trade for Nolan Arenado, I hope, rather than Harvey is out for the year.

G-Fafif Jul 07 2016 07:34 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

bmfc1 wrote: Announcing a big trade for Nolan Arenado, I hope, rather than Harvey is out for the year. Maybe the Rockies would take multitime All-Star shortstop, former stolen base champ in return.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2016 07:41 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Got a link?

soupcan Jul 07 2016 08:08 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Per Sandy: Symptoms are consistent with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Two options available. Temporary fix that includes use of nerve blocking meds. Second option is surgery. In Harvey's case surgery would mean no return to baseball activities for 4 months so basically we're talking about 2017. Sandy has not spoken to Harvey yet so thats all he's got. Per soupcan: So, do the temporary stuff and see if it works. If it does, get back on the hill and have the surgery post-post season. You're back on the mound at Citi by June at the latest. If the meds don't work, then go get cut pal and we'll see you in the spring. Bing bang boom.

TransMonk Jul 07 2016 08:16 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Also, the SNY guys are now talking like Wheeler is now "if" instead of "when" in 2016. So much for the pitching depth.

Ceetar Jul 07 2016 08:18 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

TransMonk wrote: Also, the SNY guys are now talking like Wheeler is now "if" instead of "when" in 2016. So much for the pitching depth. Probably always was. People were way too 'sure' about that for someone that hadn't thrown yet. But the hope is still there for August it's just you can't really bank on no setbacks.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2016 08:21 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Oh, I think the team still has enviable depth. Brilliant move bringing Colón back though. If anything, it's almost a relief to have a pedestrian in the rotation. If Verrett doesn't perform two times in a row, they move on until they find someone who does. If Harvey doesn't perform two times in a row, they wring their hands, and weigh short-term needs against getting Harvey back to Harveyness, sending him out there and out there and out there.

Frayed Knot Jul 07 2016 08:23 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Harvey at first seemed determined to 'work through' his partially torn UCL rather than go through surgery back when it was his elbow that betrayed him so I suspect his first instinct will be to try his gosh-darnedest to avoid the knife here too. I apologize for my strong language.

Ceetar Jul 07 2016 08:24 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Frayed Knot wrote: Harvey at first seemed determined to 'work through' his partially torn UCL rather than go through surgery back when it was his elbow that betrayed him so I suspect his first instinct will be to try his gosh-darnedest to avoid the knife here too. I apologize for my strong language. i imagine that'd be my response to people that want to cut me open too. Generally won't hurt any timetable to give it a month or two either.

metsmarathon Jul 07 2016 08:34 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

yeesh. this is not terribly good...

Mets Guy in Michigan Jul 07 2016 08:53 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

The Bartolo signing looks better and better and better... Imagine where we would be without him?

Ashie62 Jul 07 2016 08:56 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

That could be 2 years away for Wheeler? Thats crazy.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2016 10:04 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Daddy always says, if Brant Rustich says so, it's the truth. [fimg=600:1szb5let]https://metsinpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/cmyuhvjxgaat3wq.jpg[/fimg:1szb5let] I don't think he knows what "albeit" means, but if he does, he's totally dissed the Mets right there.

Ashie62 Jul 08 2016 12:12 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Thats actually pretty funny. albeit fot the Mets

RealityChuck Jul 08 2016 12:20 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

One of the fringe benefits of being a Mets fan is that you can learn all about unusual medical conditions: spinal stenosis, Thoracic Outlet Syndrome... It makes bone spurs seem almost quaint.

smg58 Jul 08 2016 12:24 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

This strikes me as the "don't fool around, just get the surgery done" type of injury. I get the sense he's been trying to pitch with the condition for too long already. Rustich sounds like he knows what he's talking about, FWIW. I'd be curious to know, though, if the Mets' front office was really any more guilty than other teams of making valor the better part of discretion where injuries were concerned, or if it just seems that way because we pay more attention to them than to other teams.

Edgy MD Jul 08 2016 12:30 AM Re: What's next for Harvey?

I glean that, in Rustich's case, the diagnosis didn't come until late. His condition was his normal. Whether that's on the Mets, I guess, can be speculated. I wonder if he and Tony Bernazard had a chat.

seawolf17 Jul 08 2016 01:22 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

RealityChuck wrote: One of the fringe benefits of being a Mets fan is that you can learn all about unusual medical conditions: spinal stenosis, Thoracic Outlet Syndrome... It makes bone spurs seem almost quaint. Don't forget Ike Davis Disease or whatever he had.

Centerfield Jul 08 2016 02:02 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Well obviously this is not good news at all, but it's good to know that there is a reason (if only partially) for Harvey's struggles this season. The surgery seems like scary stuff, but it's encouraging that some of the recent guys have been able to bounce back successfully. Get the surgery Harv. It's a death sentence if you don't. A few other thoughts: *Good job by the Mets to recognize it, shut it down, and send him to an expert immediately. We rake them when they bungle these injuries. Looks like they were right on top of this one. Maybe having seen it with Dillon Gee before helped them to spot it. *Hard to know what may have led to this, but in reading up on the guys who have had it in the past, you can't help but notice that a few of those guys threw a lot of innings, and went deep into the post-season (Beckett, Carpenter). I can't help but wonder if the innings last year led to this. *The media and fans that blasted Harvey should be embarrassed. Turns out he wasn't struggling because of his demeanor, or his douchiness, or because he got fat. Instead, it's a serious medical condition. Do we know for sure that this has nothing to do with his blood clots in spring training? Suddenly those tabloid headlines don't seem so funny any more do they? I understand that Harvey is unlikeable to a lot of people. He seems super douchy. No question. But he's done nothing but work his ass off and pitch amazing since he's been here. Isn't that worth something? We're going to slam him because he kinda seems like a dick, while adoring a convicted PED user and giving a standing ovation to a guy who is accused of choking his wife? I don't know. Seems awfully hypocritical to me. I don't expect everyone to agree, but in my opinion, the idolization of Bartolo Colon represents the great part of playing in NY. The fans treatment and media treatment of Matt Harvey this year demonstrates the worst.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 08 2016 02:06 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Centerfield wrote: I don't expect everyone to agree, but in my opinion, the idolization of Bartolo Colon represents the great part of playing in NY. The fans treatment and media treatment of Matt Harvey this year demonstrates the worst. I think that's fair.

bmfc1 Jul 08 2016 04:17 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Season-ending surgery, that's what's next for Harvey. Per Rubin: "Scott Boras tells ESPN that Matt Harvey will undergo surgery in St. Louis with Dr. Thompson to address thoracic outlet syndrome, ending his season. Boras says this is the reason Harvey underperformed this season."

themetfairy Jul 08 2016 04:21 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: I don't expect everyone to agree, but in my opinion, the idolization of Bartolo Colon represents the great part of playing in NY. The fans treatment and media treatment of Matt Harvey this year demonstrates the worst. I think that's fair. I agree.

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 04:33 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

bmfc1 wrote: Season-ending surgery, that's what's next for Harvey. Best of luck to him. From what we've read, it's not going to be an easy road back.

soupcan Jul 08 2016 04:33 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

bmfc1 wrote: Season-ending surgery, that's what's next for Harvey. Per Rubin: "Scott Boras tells ESPN that Matt Harvey will undergo surgery in St. Louis with Dr. Thompson to address thoracic outlet syndrome, ending his season. Boras says this is the reason Harvey underperformed this season." Good on all counts. Get it done, fix the problem, plenty of rehab time, ready in the spring, the Dark Knight Returns in 2017.

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 04:36 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

soupcan wrote: Good on all counts. Get it done, fix the problem, plenty of rehab time, ready in the spring, the Dark Knight Returns in 2017. I read mid-2017 somewhere. Who knows.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 08 2016 04:40 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Sandy last night was clear its a 4 month recovery and that gettin 'er done today would allow for normal return next season, pending YMMV, etc et etc etc.

d'Kong76 Jul 08 2016 04:44 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

RotoWorld wrote: Matt Harvey has been diagnosed with "symptoms consistent with thoracic outlet syndrome" and is considering undergoing season-ending shoulder surgery. Harvey flew out to St. Louis on Thursday to meet with Dr. Robert Thompson, the nation's leading specialist in TOS. And the news obviously wasn't good. If the right-hander does go under the knife, he might not be ready to pitch again until mid-2017. Other starting pitchers have failed to return from that surgery, or had their skills greatly diminished. It's absolutely terrible news. Source: Anthony DiComo on TwitterJul 7 - 3:55 PM

Ceetar Jul 08 2016 04:49 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

4 months is the recovery time from the surgery in terms of his body, but in terms of baseball there are I guess plenty of wild cards to work through.

TransMonk Jul 08 2016 04:58 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Yeah, I took the timeline to mean four months before he could even pick up a baseball. But the recovery time after that is a true unknown. I'm advising Matt to have the surgery. I don't understand why he would wait.

Ceetar Jul 08 2016 05:05 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

TransMonk wrote: Yeah, I took the timeline to mean four months before he could even pick up a baseball. But the recovery time after that is a true unknown. I'm advising Matt to have the surgery. I don't understand why he would wait. I guess he figured if he could pitch like he has the last 40 innings or so (3 ERA or whatever) than he can play and pitch and participate in the postseason. Or even better if the shots could alleviate some of the problem and he could do better. Then he'd be participating in the postseason at the expense of early next year, but who knows what next year brings.

TransMonk Jul 08 2016 05:19 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

Matt Harvey to have surgery to address thoracic outlet syndrome

Centerfield Jul 08 2016 06:08 PM Re: What's next for Harvey?

It's the right move. Get healthy Harvey. Come back strong in 2017 and give a big FU to all the haters from this season.