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Outfield Options

Edgy MD Jun 05 2016 10:02 PM

The Mets are down two outfielders, and have a full week before their next game off. Last I heard, they planned on taking Juan Lagares to Pittsburgh, and then evaluating him after the series when they get back to New York. I suppose that ... could ... make sense, but I sure haven't figured out how yet. They go two deep in centerfield, and Ty Kelly is their emergency outfielder if their margin-of-error of zero gets exceeded. So, unless they have a good reason to expect the health fairy is coming to bless them, they probably want to take a good look at what's available to them. Roger Bernadina Hitting .301 / .373 / .444 // .817 in 41 games at Vegas. Has hit two homers and driven in 17, including hitting a game winner in the 10th inning a few nights ago. Has plenty of big league experience and is strong like bull. Has stolen nine bases and would be the first Mets player from Curacao since 1990s designated pinch runner Ralph Milliard. Hits left. Not on 40-man. Kyle Johnson Hitting .239 / .333 / .345 // .678 in 41 games, 30 at Bingo and 11 at Vegas. Probably wouldn't merit any consideration at all, but he is primarily a center fielder, for what that's worth. Hits righty. Not on 40-man. Brandon Nimmo Going .305 / .391 / .463 / .854 in 46 games at AAA. Bats lefty, first rounder, has stolen four of 10 bases (boo!). Four triples. Forty appearances in center(!). On the 40-man. Eric Campbell There's little I can tell you about Eric Campbell that you don't already know. Travis Taijeron Likely the team's best hitter last year, and he's putting together a pretty similar season this year at .297 / .388 / .547 // .935. Has eight homers, but has also whiffed 65 times, which almost makes him an honorary 2016 Met already. Only plays center in emergencies. Rocks a mullet. Bats righty.

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2016 10:36 PM Re: Outfield Options

Last I heard, they planned on taking Juan Lagares to Pittsburgh, and then evaluating him after the series when they get back to New York. I suppose that ... could ... make sense, but I sure haven't figured out how yet. Rubin is saying that Juan will be seeing NYC doctors on Monday and that he expects to be back in Pittsburgh for the start of the series. I suppose that timetable could still make him doubtful for Monday's game even if there's no bad news on the thumb -- he claims there's no pain, just a little swelling -- but probably for Tuesday. Of course if the diagnosis is worse than that then the discussion for a replacement kicks in. Cespedes sounds like he'll be back starting on Monday or Tuesday at the latest, especially seeing as how he was OK to PH today. And, just on a side note and because I have it on TV, the Yanx & O's have resumed after a lengthy rain delay and, with Chapman on the mound, the O's turned a 1-0 deficit into a 3-1 lead with a two-out bases-clearing single by Matt Weiters on an 0-2 count. Watching the Yanx lose (still top 9 to go) a game they've led for about five hours of innings and delays (and on a get-away day too) because of their vaunted back-end of the bullpen would be almost too good for words. oe: Thaaaaaaa Yanquis lose!!

Nymr83 Jun 06 2016 02:48 AM Re: Outfield Options

its time to find Nimmo.

Zvon Jun 06 2016 02:57 AM Re: Outfield Options

Nymr83 wrote: its time to find Nimmo. That would make things interesting. Or more interesting. If anyone's pressed it's going to be him, right? I do like the info on Bernadina though. And he's a bit more seasoned.

Fman99 Jun 06 2016 04:08 AM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: The Mets are down two outfielders, and have a full week before their next game off. Last I heard, they planned on taking Juan Lagares to Pittsburgh, and then evaluating him after the series when they get back to New York. I suppose that ... could ... make sense, but I sure haven't figured out how yet. They go two deep in centerfield, and Ty Kelly is their emergency outfielder if their margin-of-error of zero gets exceeded. So, unless they have a good reason to expect the health fairy is coming to bless them, they probably want to take a good look at what's available to them. Roger Bernadina Hitting .301 / .373 / .444 // .817 in 41 games at Vegas. Has hit two homers and driven in 17, including hitting a game winner in the 10th inning a few nights ago. Has plenty of big league experience and is strong like bull. Has stolen nine bases and would be the first Mets player from Curacao since 1990s designated pinch runner Ralph Milliard. Hits left. Not on 40-man. Kyle Johnson Hitting .239 / .333 / .345 // .678 in 41 games, 30 at Bingo and 11 at Vegas. Probably wouldn't merit any consideration at all, but he is primarily a center fielder, for what that's worth. Hits righty. Not on 40-man. Brandon Nimmo Going .305 / .391 / .463 / .854 in 46 games at AAA. Bats lefty, first rounder, has stolen four of 10 bases (boo!). Four triples. Forty appearances in center(!). On the 40-man. Eric Campbell There's little I can tell you about Eric Campbell that you don't already know. Travis Taijeron Likely the team's best hitter last year, and he's putting together a pretty similar season this year at .297 / .388 / .547 // .935. Has eight homers, but has also whiffed 65 times, which almost makes him an honorary 2016 Met already. Only plays center in emergencies. Rocks a mullet. Bats righty. My favorite guy on this list is "not Eric Campbell."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2016 04:11 AM Re: Outfield Options

Every time I get a little excited about the numbers on someone in AAA, I remember, this is a place where Eric Campbell can dominate pitching.

Centerfield Jun 06 2016 02:02 PM Re: Outfield Options

It looks like the Mets will, as they have many times this season, go with no one at all. Ron was pretty outspoken about how he thought the Mets should have had Lagares checked out ASAP and a replacement brought in just in case. He didn't come outright and say it, but I get the feeling he is frustrated by the Mets lack of urgency on this sort of thing. I feel like the Mets have been playing with a short bench the entire season. On Edit: Before the game, Terry was talking about using Syndergaard as a pinch hitter. I wonder how much of that was real and how much of that was to send a message to the FO, "Hey dickheads, get me some players".

Edgy MD Jun 06 2016 02:19 PM Re: Outfield Options

Outfielders recently designated for assigment: [list:yg8fdiot][*:yg8fdiot]Carl Crawford, LA Dodgers[/*:m:yg8fdiot] [*:yg8fdiot]David Lough, Philadelphia Phillies[/*:m:yg8fdiot][/list:u:yg8fdiot]

Vic Sage Jun 06 2016 02:28 PM Re: Outfield Options

i remember when Crawford was a forum FA/trade favorite; we lusted after him. Now we can have him, and we don't want him... right?

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2016 02:50 PM Re: Outfield Options

Centerfield wrote: It looks like the Mets will, as they have many times this season, go with no one at all. Ron was pretty outspoken about how he thought the Mets should have had Lagares checked out ASAP and a replacement brought in just in case. Well the initial story was that Lagares wasn't going to see a doctor while in Florida. MLB rules require that a doctor, provided by the home team, be on hand at every game but apparently the Marlins had only a GP at Saturday's game but no orthopedist (lousy cheap-ass Loria spending it all on fish tanks) so no exam was done at the park that day. Turns out however that he did see an outside doctor on Sunday where X-Rays revealed no break with further testing to be done by their own guys in NY today. The problem with the immediate replacement (beyond the time squeeze of getting someone across the country for a day game) is that it requires an immediate DL or some separate move. If it just turns out to be a couple day thing -- like say with Cespedes and his hip -- then going a day or three minus a guy is often better than having a regular miss the minimum 15 even though he'll likely be healthy for maybe 10-12 of them. If all DL trips were apparent immediately such calls would be easy but it doesn't always work that way. I think they'll probably know on Lagares either today or tomorrow and make a call then.

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2016 02:53 PM Re: Outfield Options

Vic Sage wrote: i remember when Crawford was a forum FA/trade favorite; we lusted after him. Now we can have him, and we don't want him... right? Right. He's terrible and has been almost from the moment he signed the contract.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2016 03:09 PM Re: Outfield Options

There's a lesson there about relying on 'speed' players as they age into their 30s Crawford had a 781 OPS with Tampa (806 in his prime age 22-28 seasons) over ~5,000 ABs He's most of 100 points lower (717) since signing with Boston and the subsequent trade to LA (ages 29-34 years - turns 35 in August) but even more than that is that he's had only one season where he played over 120 games.

Ceetar Jun 06 2016 03:10 PM Re: Outfield Options

Frayed Knot wrote: The problem with the immediate replacement (beyond the time squeeze of getting someone across the country for a day game) is that it requires an immediate DL or some separate move. If it just turns out to be a couple day thing -- like say with Cespedes and his hip -- then going a day or three minus a guy is often better than having a regular miss the minimum 15 even though he'll likely be healthy for maybe 10-12 of them. If all DL trips were apparent immediately such calls would be easy but it doesn't always work that way. I think they'll probably know on Lagares either today or tomorrow and make a call then. It's almost like part of having a 25 man roster is the flexibility to do things like this. Terry should still pinch-hit his backup catcher over deGrom or Syndergaard though.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2016 03:18 PM Re: Outfield Options

Frayed Knot wrote: The problem with the immediate replacement (beyond the time squeeze of getting someone across the country for a day game) is that it requires an immediate DL or some separate move. If it just turns out to be a couple day thing -- like say with Cespedes and his hip -- then going a day or three minus a guy is often better than having a regular miss the minimum 15 even though he'll likely be healthy for maybe 10-12 of them. If all DL trips were apparent immediately such calls would be easy but it doesn't always work that way. I think they'll probably know on Lagares either today or tomorrow and make a call then. One thing every roster needs in such situations is Fungible Interchangeable Backend RelieversTM. You send down Verrett, call up Nimmo, live without a seven-man bullpen for a day or two (the horror!). If the injury, after that day or two, turns out to be serious, Lagares hits the DL, Nimmo stays, and Verrett returns. If the injury turns out to be much ado about nuttin', then Nimmo returns to Vegas, and Verrett returns to New York. If it's too soon for Verrett to return within the rules, then the team calls up one of Verrett's fellow FIBRs, Sean Gilmartin or Rafael Montero, both already on the roster and big-league experienced, for whatever that's worth. I don't know about you, but my life has seen a vast improvement since I switched to a high-FIBR diet. It's changed my outlook and allowed me to do things I never could before. I'm never changing back.

Centerfield Jun 06 2016 03:22 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: The problem with the immediate replacement (beyond the time squeeze of getting someone across the country for a day game) is that it requires an immediate DL or some separate move. If it just turns out to be a couple day thing -- like say with Cespedes and his hip -- then going a day or three minus a guy is often better than having a regular miss the minimum 15 even though he'll likely be healthy for maybe 10-12 of them. If all DL trips were apparent immediately such calls would be easy but it doesn't always work that way. I think they'll probably know on Lagares either today or tomorrow and make a call then. One thing every roster needs in such situations is Fungible Interchangeable Backend RelieversTM. You send down Verrett, call up Nimmo, live without a seven-man bullpen for a day or two (the horror!). If the injury, after that day or two, turns out to be serious, Lagares hits the DL, Nimmo stays, and Verrett returns. If the injury turns out to be much ado about nuttin', then Nimmo returns to Vegas, and Verrett returns to New York. If it's too soon for Verrett to return within the rules, then the team calls up one of Verrett's fellow FIBRs, Sean Gilmartin or Rafael Montero, both already on the roster and big-league experienced, for whatever that's worth. I don't know about you, but my life has seen a vast improvement since I switched to a high-FIBR diet. It's changed my outlook and allowed me to do things I never could before. I'm never changing back. Exactly. And either way, you have Lagares checked immediately on Saturday. If it is a break, or a tear, or some other serious injury, you bring someone in right away for Sunday.

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2016 03:40 PM Re: Outfield Options

And either way, you have Lagares checked immediately on Saturday. If it is a break, or a tear, or some other serious injury, you bring someone in right away for Sunday. And this is what I can't understand. It's an almost pathological resistance to checking players out immediately, while they stay on the 25-man roster unable to play. They had Wright hang out for almost a week this way. The roster doesn't have a lot of flexibility to begin with, without operating short-handed.

Centerfield Jun 06 2016 03:55 PM Re: Outfield Options

Lefty Specialist wrote: And either way, you have Lagares checked immediately on Saturday. If it is a break, or a tear, or some other serious injury, you bring someone in right away for Sunday. And this is what I can't understand. It's an almost pathological resistance to checking players out immediately, while they stay on the 25-man roster unable to play. They had Wright hang out for almost a week this way. The roster doesn't have a lot of flexibility to begin with, without operating short-handed. Don't forget Steven Matz, where they waited FIVE DAYS to check his elbow. And thank god it turned out to be nothing, but this is just a foolish way to operate.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2016 04:42 PM Re: Outfield Options

In fairness, Wright was examined, treated, and evaluated. It just turned out that the hopes for the initial, lesser treatment to be effective were not fruitful.

Ashie62 Jun 06 2016 05:23 PM Re: Outfield Options

Mets might have been waiting for swelling to go down before the MRI.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2016 05:40 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: I don't know about you, but my life has seen a vast improvement since I switched to a high-FIBR diet. It's changed my outlook and allowed me to do things I never could before. I'm never changing back. Oh, it makes sense. Our guys apparently just prefer to live full of crap. The priority is the major-league team, right? So, y'know, as soon as you get a prelim diagnosis-- hell, he was injured in the afternoon on Saturday in a major American city, right?-- you make a decision and make a move.

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2016 07:49 PM Re: Outfield Options

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Juan Lagares has been diagnosed with a partially torn ligament in his left thumb. He will rejoin the team and not be placed on the disabled list.

Centerfield Jun 06 2016 09:30 PM Re: Outfield Options

How fucking stupid is this?

Ashie62 Jun 06 2016 09:40 PM Re: Outfield Options

Pretty much what I expected. Long term injury. Nimmo!

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2016 10:54 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: The problem with the immediate replacement (beyond the time squeeze of getting someone across the country for a day game) is that it requires an immediate DL or some separate move. If it just turns out to be a couple day thing -- like say with Cespedes and his hip -- then going a day or three minus a guy is often better than having a regular miss the minimum 15 even though he'll likely be healthy for maybe 10-12 of them. If all DL trips were apparent immediately such calls would be easy but it doesn't always work that way. I think they'll probably know on Lagares either today or tomorrow and make a call then. One thing every roster needs in such situations is Fungible Interchangeable Backend RelieversTM. You send down Verrett, call up Nimmo, live without a seven-man bullpen for a day or two (the horror!). If the injury, after that day or two, turns out to be serious, Lagares hits the DL, Nimmo stays, and Verrett returns. If the injury turns out to be much ado about nuttin', then Nimmo returns to Vegas, and Verrett returns to New York. If it's too soon for Verrett to return within the rules, then the team calls up one of Verrett's fellow FIBRs, Sean Gilmartin or Rafael Montero, both already on the roster and big-league experienced, for whatever that's worth. I don't know about you, but my life has seen a vast improvement since I switched to a high-FIBR diet. It's changed my outlook and allowed me to do things I never could before. I'm never changing back. Well either way you're still down a man on the roster; your way just means that you're a man short in the pen rather than on the bench. Sometimes that will be the better option, but not always. The major question still remains whether being short a man (whether hurler or position player) for 1-3 days is worse than maybe being without a key player for most of two weeks unnecessarily. Not trying to pretend that there's one blanket answer for these situations, but there seem to be a whole lot of people with internet medical degrees who already know how long Lagares is going to be out.

Zvon Jun 06 2016 11:24 PM Re: Outfield Options

Welcome to rain delay theater, already in progress: [fimg=500]http://theredlist.com/media/database/films/tv-series/police-and-crime/1960/columbo/011-columbo-theredlist.png[/fimg] "I don't think the thumb is connected to the back, no sir. I'm going to have to widen my scope. So now the centerfielder has a torn thumb? So in what way is he NOT disabled? *shakes head* This is a strange team sir. A very strange team."

Edgy MD Jun 07 2016 12:24 AM Re: Outfield Options

Frayed Knot wrote: Well either way you're still down a man on the roster; your way just means that you're a man short in the pen rather than on the bench. Sometimes that will be the better option, but not always. Well, you don't really have to teach me the math. Frayed Knot wrote: The major question still remains whether being short a man (whether hurler or position player) for 1-3 days is worse than maybe being without a key player for most of two weeks unnecessarily. Well, I've declared a third way around that, to be short in a place of much greater redundancy, much less likely to represent a one-day pinch. Frayed Knot wrote: Not trying to pretend that there's one blanket answer for these situations, but there seem to be a whole lot of people with internet medical degrees who already know how long Lagares is going to be out. Well, I ain't one of them. But if the team decides to keep Lagares active, maybe that's the move to make. If he can get his glove over his thumb, anyhow.

Centerfield Jun 07 2016 03:35 PM Re: Outfield Options

And your 26th man for game 2 of the DH is...Eric Campbell.

themetfairy Jun 07 2016 03:47 PM Re: Outfield Options

Centerfield wrote: And your 26th man for game 2 of the DH is...Eric Campbell. Shit....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 07 2016 04:40 PM Re: Outfield Options

Well, he knows where the bathroom is. Which is good, because his game plays well there.

Ashie62 Jun 08 2016 04:07 PM Re: Outfield Options

Our OF option may be Lagares himself. He spoke today. [url]http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2016/06/mets_juan_lagares_1.html#incart_river_index

Centerfield Jun 09 2016 05:54 PM Re: Outfield Options

More encouraging news on Juan. Gaining strength in his hand, hopes to swing a bat in a few days. https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/juan-lagar ... /183048162 This is good. Hopefully he gets there soon. There should be some sort of list where a team can put players that are hurt on the side and call up someone to take their place so that they don't have to play a man down. Maybe they can propose something like this at the next CBA.

Lefty Specialist Jun 09 2016 08:37 PM Re: Outfield Options

Centerfield wrote: There should be some sort of list where a team can put players that are hurt on the side and call up someone to take their place so that they don't have to play a man down. That would sure be helpful. Sandy should look into it.

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2016 08:46 PM Re: Outfield Options

The move to DL or not probably comes tomorrow when they have to do something to slide Kelly Johnson onto the roster (and onto the 40-man although that could be a different move). If Juan and his thumb get sent to Florida rehab then I guess Ty gets a reprieve and our roster will have multiple Kellys for the near future. If Juan stays then Ty could get floated on waivers so as to create 40 man space as well as 25.

Edgy MD Jun 09 2016 08:50 PM Re: Outfield Options

They don't need 40-guy roster space this time, I think, as the trade opened up Akeel's spot.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2016 12:50 PM Re: Outfield Options

Oh yeah, forgot about Akeel. So now that Lagares played last night -- and fielded, and hit, and OMG SLID HEAD-FIRST INTO 2nd BASE!!!! -- I guess today's transaction is just a straight Kelly for Kelly swap-a-relly

Edgy MD Jun 10 2016 01:34 PM Re: Outfield Options

Unless it's Kelly-for-Campy or Kelly-for-Reyny. Or unless Neil Walker gets DL'd. I wonder if it's something like what Uribe absorbed last year, when a blow to the sternum impinges breathing. But probably Kelly-4-Kelly, yeah.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 10 2016 02:28 PM Re: Outfield Options

Oh yeah, forgot about Akeel. So now that Lagares played last night -- and fielded, and hit, and OMG SLID HEAD-FIRST INTO 2nd BASE!!!! -- I guess today's transaction is just a straight Kelly for Kelly swap-a-relly Everyone assumes Kelly, but could also be Reynolds, though. Kelly's stock had to rise a little with that HR-and-throw-out-and-home game. Reynolds fought for a spot with a key pinch single last night. Kelly also more versatile than Reynolds: Switchy, OF/IF.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2016 04:35 PM Re: Outfield Options

Yeah, forgot about Reynolds too. But, if nothing else, this revives the argument about whether you'd prefer to be a man short for 2-4 days or be without a starter (or semi-starter in Juan's case) for 15 days even though healthy for 10-12 of them while a lesser man takes his place.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 10 2016 08:00 PM Re: Outfield Options

Matt Reynolds, you are the sole Survivor. Ty Kelly loses his job and his uni number.

Ashie62 Jun 12 2016 07:02 PM Re: Outfield Options

Maybe Sandy can think a bit bigger soon.

Ashie62 Jun 13 2016 09:18 PM Re: Outfield Options

Michael Conforto is having his wrist examined. NEXT Otter, this is ridiculous.

Edgy MD Jun 13 2016 11:26 PM Re: Outfield Options

I tend to think that Michael Conforto being treated for tendonitis > Michael Conforto having lost his swing.

Ceetar Jun 14 2016 01:44 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: I tend to think that Michael Conforto being treated for tendonitis > Michael Conforto having lost his swing. I think one might be cover for the other.

Edgy MD Jun 14 2016 02:11 PM Re: Outfield Options

Possible. We'll see which. He's not the sort of bad and hopelessly getting worse that you need to make up a false injury to hide him, though. At his age, you can just demote him for a week.

Ceetar Jun 14 2016 02:37 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: Possible. We'll see which. He's not the sort of bad and hopelessly getting worse that you need to make up a false injury to hide him, though. At his age, you can just demote him for a week. Might be for his benefit? Give him a week off , a week of rehab games, and he's back. I find it interesting that everyone seems/seemed so ready to roll with him to begin with.

Ashie62 Jun 14 2016 03:46 PM Re: Outfield Options

Newsday says the Mets have not considered sending Conforto down.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 14 2016 03:58 PM Re: Outfield Options

Well it says they have not "seriously" considered it even though remarks from Ricco would indicate they have. The Mets' position is that they're intent on having him fight through it and that's true until it isn't. Everything is considerable. I get the sense that Sandy has a cadence in mind for these kinds of things and they sometimes drive decisions more so than is understood. I mean, obviously replacing Conforto with Nimmo was not one of those steps he'd necessarily draw up, but I do believe there's a blueprint, a rhythm, to his moves. It was very evident in the pace at which he brought up the pitchers and at some point it will be that way with Zimmo, et al.

Edgy MD Jun 14 2016 04:49 PM Re: Outfield Options

I switched minor league team updates from weekly to bi-weekly based on interest, and in doing so, I've missed Nimmo thundering to a 10-game hitting streak, not counting the one game he appeared as a defensive replacement. If you take out a single 0-1 game, he's reached in 25 straight games in which he's come to the plate. He's homered three times this week, and it's pretty safe to say that he's achieved star status at this point, if only at the AAA level. .330 / .409 / .527 // .937 They may be enjoying his encroaching power, and perhaps want to see him get comfortable with his home run swing, but I'd be flummoxed if we don't see him by the All Star Break.

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2016 05:13 PM Re: Outfield Options

[reprinted from Adopt-a-Prospect forum] Those footsteps Michael Conforto is hearing just may be from some Wyoming-made cowboy boots. Now at .330/.405/.530 for the season, which means that since my May 23rd post he's had 23 hits in his last 61 PAs (not ABs, but PAs) including 4 HRs and 11 XBHs in those 23 hits. And, yeah it's Vegas, but 38% of his hits on the season (25 of 66) are for XBs. Compare all that to Conforto being 4 for 36 in June and 18 for 119 since the end of April. Gary brought up the idea of farming out Conforto the other day (not specifically mentioning Nimmo but just in general). Keith brushed it aside but at the same time didn't rule it out completely and added that he didn't think such a move would be a soul-destroying maneuver from which a player never recovers. And sooner or later something's got to change somewhere, so when you figure in same position, LH batter, ... If nothing else, the season for Nimmo thus far continues his pattern of taking some time to adjust to a new level but then adjusting to it quite nicely. After almost double the number of PAs at Vegas 2016 compared to the partial season there after his 2015 promotion, his current 935 OPS is a sizable jump over last year's 810

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 14 2016 05:27 PM Re: Outfield Options

Yabbut, he had a total of 37 extra base hits in a full-major-league-season's worth of ABs (.122 IsoP) in AA. At lower levels, too, his isolated-power numbers never got above .120 or so. Which is okay, but not the sort of power that makes up fully for his massive K-rate. Honestly, he could be useful, but the power stuff certainly has more than a whiff of Vegas mirage to it. He can't replace Conforto. Conforto has a bat that, when right, can carry a team during hot streaks. Nimmo seems-- SEEMS, granted-- to be an interesting part-timer, at best.

Ceetar Jun 14 2016 05:35 PM Re: Outfield Options

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: He can't replace Conforto. Conforto has a bat that, when right, can carry a team during hot streaks. . and when AGAINST right.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 14 2016 06:10 PM Re: Outfield Options

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Yabbut, he had a total of 37 extra base hits in a full-major-league-season's worth of ABs (.122 IsoP) in AA. At lower levels, too, his isolated-power numbers never got above .120 or so. Which is okay, but not the sort of power that makes up fully for his massive K-rate. Honestly, he could be useful, but the power stuff certainly has more than a whiff of Vegas mirage to it. He can't replace Conforto. Conforto has a bat that, when right, can carry a team during hot streaks. Nimmo seems-- SEEMS, granted-- to be an interesting part-timer, at best. My suggestion was only to get Zimmo a taste while he's going good and while Conforto takes a 2 week break to stop killing our lineup every night. His good on-base skills could slot in nicely at leadoff allowing Grandyman to take those home runs further down the lineup. If they both wind up hitting well and I think they both could -- then that's a much better problem to have. Further down the road -- next year for sure -- Zimmo could succeed Grandy on a more regular basis, split time in CF with Lagares, try and make up for departing Cespedes, free up the team to trade someone etc etc

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2016 06:32 PM Re: Outfield Options

Yeah, I'm not suggesting Nimmo as a permanent replacement for Conforto. But, while dealing with a short slump is one thing, we're approaching like seven weeks worth of nothingness at this point.

Centerfield Jun 14 2016 07:38 PM Re: Outfield Options

He's only 23. Was hurt last year. Maybe he's just coming into his own? I'd be down with giving him a shot. Like FK says. Seven weeks. Mike, go down to LV. Get some strippers and some blow and come back refreshed.

Ashie62 Jun 16 2016 03:45 PM Re: Outfield Options

Lagares aggravated his thumb. Stagetime Brandon Nimmo.

Edgy MD Jun 17 2016 01:21 AM Re: Outfield Options

So, Conforto to the minors? Off the table?

Zvon Jun 17 2016 01:52 AM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: So, Conforto to the minors? Off the table? Off my table. I thought maybe he needed to work it out somewhere else. But I'm going to say I think he's figured it out.

Nymr83 Jun 17 2016 04:26 AM Re: Outfield Options

Zvon wrote: Edgy MD wrote: So, Conforto to the minors? Off the table? Off my table. I thought maybe he needed to work it out somewhere else. But I'm going to say I think he's figured it out. he is hitting .108 in June, how has he "figured it out"? I'd send him down for a breather

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2016 08:53 AM Re: Outfield Options

Nymr83 wrote: Zvon wrote: Edgy MD wrote: So, Conforto to the minors? Off the table? Off my table. I thought maybe he needed to work it out somewhere else. But I'm going to say I think he's figured it out. he is hitting .108 in June, how has he "figured it out"? I'd send him down for a breather 2 HRs in the last 7 games. 2/4 last night. Anyway, let's go, Nim-mo.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2016 11:59 AM Re: Outfield Options

Nymr83 wrote: Zvon wrote: Edgy MD wrote: So, Conforto to the minors? Off the table? Off my table. I thought maybe he needed to work it out somewhere else. But I'm going to say I think he's figured it out. he is hitting .108 in June, how has he "figured it out"? I'd send him down for a breather Till very recent results change I'm pretending his slump had to do with a wrist problem that's now cured, and that the 4 days off he had were enough. No arguing what a diff it makes to us when Conforto hits.

smg58 Jun 17 2016 01:54 PM Re: Outfield Options

Conforto's .771 OPS overall is not screaming for a demotion, especially if the wrist issue had anything to do with the slump. Granderson's .779 OPS is fine and trending upwards. It would be easy to promote Nimmo if he hit righthanded, but he's lefty. I'm for being patient with the situation right now.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 02:17 PM Re: Outfield Options

I mean, it was two hits off a righty at least one of which wasn't pitching very well. He also only has 2 walks in June to 15 strikeouts in 45 PA in June. It was nice to see the home run, but we're a long way from me being comfortable with Conforto.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2016 03:10 PM Re: Outfield Options

It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there. We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee?

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 03:50 PM Re: Outfield Options

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there. We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee? Something closer to the 10% walk rate than the 4.4 he has in June. Something less than the 28 in may and 33% in June K rate. Those are Nieuwenhuis numbers. he's 4/43 with 1 BB against lefties. That's a small sample, but I might be able to do better in those spots just by standing their and not swinging hoping for 4 balls. His batting ball lines are bad too. He's just making a ton of soft contact up the middle. he's just tapping out the 2B and SS basically. One good day against some struggling pitchers is not going to allay those concerns.

Ashie62 Jun 17 2016 04:12 PM Re: Outfield Options

Ceetar wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there. We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee? Something closer to the 10% walk rate than the 4.4 he has in June. Something less than the 28 in may and 33% in June K rate. Those are Nieuwenhuis numbers. he's 4/43 with 1 BB against lefties. That's a small sample, but I might be able to do better in those spots just by standing their and not swinging hoping for 4 balls. His batting ball lines are bad too. He's just making a ton of soft contact up the middle. he's just tapping out the 2B and SS basically. One good day against some struggling pitchers is not going to allay those concerns. You have to be kidding. He hits for more power than Kirk ever did.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 04:20 PM Re: Outfield Options

Nieuwenhuis had pretty good power. He also walked more than Conforto and plays better defense. His problem was very much an all or nothing thing, where he could identify some pitches and crush them, was smart enough to lay off others, but generally just isn't talented enough to crush anything but mistakes. And Conforto is exhibiting many of the same problems.

d'Kong76 Jun 17 2016 04:31 PM Re: Outfield Options

Is contrarily un-optimistic a thing? It's mid June, Conforto will be fine. Huge. Big stud.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2016 04:40 PM Re: Outfield Options

He's exhibited those problems for a six-week-stretch. While that may be unsettling, there does seem to be a fair amount more black in his high-minors/major-league ledger, K/BB-rate-wise and otherwise.

TransMonk Jun 17 2016 05:19 PM Re: Outfield Options

Conforto > Kirk - and it's silly to think it's even close...especially when it comes to plate discipline and the ability to identify and hit mistake pitches. Michael has shown some flaws while he has been slumping over the past month and a half. But he had demonstrated before that (over larger periods of time) that he can be an All-Star type hitter. I can't say the same of Kirk.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 06:00 PM Re: Outfield Options

Conforto clearly has more physical ability, but that doesn't mean he'll he fine. He sucked when he came up and then exploded in August with the rest of the team. His September was merely okay and barring WS game 4 when he was amazing, he sucked in the postseason. Then he exploded again in April and then sucked in May and June of this year. And like, epic levels of suck. And he's literally never had a hard hit off a lefty. 7/57 all singles.

Centerfield Jun 17 2016 06:16 PM Re: Outfield Options

I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer.

themetfairy Jun 17 2016 06:16 PM Re: Outfield Options

Centerfield wrote: I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer. Thank the Lord!

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 06:30 PM Re: Outfield Options

Centerfield wrote: I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer. I'd sign for Cuddyer's career from Conforto, could do much worse.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2016 06:47 PM Re: Outfield Options

Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already. That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself. And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 06:55 PM Re: Outfield Options

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already. That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself. And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now. I wouldn't describe 194 PA last year as 'being there already' Especially as a platoon. Especially for how bad the non hot-streaks are. I certainly see the potential, I was even starting to buy in, and then he became literally a waste of space for 6 weeks. Cuddyer was average for a few years and then was pretty good for a while. I'd take that. It'd be nice if Conforto was better, but I'd take it.

Edgy MD Jun 17 2016 07:02 PM Re: Outfield Options

I wanna see money on the table.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2016 07:22 PM Re: Outfield Options

Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already. That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself. And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now. I wouldn't describe 194 PA last year as 'being there already' I'm just relaying the facts: Cuddyer didn't crack an 800 OPS until age 27; Conforto's already averaged that at 23. And don't fool yourself into thinking Cuddy never had a bad 6 weeks as a pro. FWIW, I was the first Cranepooler in history to argue Conforto's slump warranted a trip to the minors but even then I wouldn't have argued all the dumb things you are now.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 08:57 PM Re: Outfield Options

there's literally no prospect I wouldn't, money on the table, take Cuddyer's career from. It' a hard game. and that's the only thing I'm arguing, and not really arguing it hard. It's certainly not dumb. I'd argue it's dumber to be convinced Conforto will be, no doubt, a bona fide great major leaguer. It's really dumb to be worried about a guy who literally has never driven a ball for a hit against a lefty in the majors? In the last 30 days he's 5th of 228 in worst OBP of anyone with at least 70 PA. His wRC+ is 52, meaning he's basically half a baseball player. I mean, Stanton is worse over that stretch, but at least he actually has a track record. He's been really really bad and again, a couple of hard hit balls don't fix that.

Edgy MD Jun 17 2016 09:59 PM Re: Outfield Options

Pick a dividing line. One says his final OPS+ will be above X. One says below. Money on the table.

Ceetar Jun 17 2016 11:27 PM Re: Outfield Options

Edgy MD wrote: Pick a dividing line. One says his final OPS+ will be above X. One says below. Money on the table. payout when 5 years after retirement?

Edgy MD Jun 17 2016 11:36 PM Re: Outfield Options

Let's just deal with 2016. Either June is distinctly indicative of his performance going forward this year or it's not.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 18 2016 02:39 AM Re: Outfield Options

I'm not interested in Cetar's money. I just want his pride.

Ashie62 Jun 18 2016 11:10 AM Re: Outfield Options

And I'd like to see Nimmo for two weeks at Citi. I still believe in Conforto but a demotion or DL might help, It helped d'Arnaud, Ike not so much.