Master Index of Archived Threads


Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I hate it!

1 votes

I dislike it!

8 votes

I am indifferent to it!

2 votes

I like it!

10 votes

I lurv it!

0 votes

Edgy MD Aug 06 2016 07:14 PM

We're a week late with this, but talk is cheap. Get your money on the table. [fimg=90]http://www.milb.com/images/663846/t506/180x270/663846.jpg[/fimg]

Edgy MD Aug 06 2016 07:52 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Fellow Reds hate the Bruce trade! “I think I see the plan,” veteran pitcher Homer Bailey told ESPN.com. “They talked about us losing 100 games at the beginning of the year, and s—, we’re damn sure trying, aren’t we?”

RealityChuck Aug 06 2016 08:27 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Good pickup, but it's not going to help much this year.

d'Kong76 Aug 06 2016 10:04 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Like, but most fans wouldn't love seeing young Dilson depart. Is what it is.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 07 2016 04:00 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

It's getting rid of a young (YOUNG young) potential cornerstone and a VERY promising young arm in the service of remaining in contention. (Exactly the wrong reason for a lopsided trade of future-for-present; we wouldn't remember Fullmer-for-Ces NEARLY as fondly if it hadn't come along with d'Arnaud and Wright returning, and put us over the top.) And Bruce has one tool. ONE. AND he's redundant, position-wise. Plainly put, it's a shitty deal. Even with Nimmo in it instead, it's worth it only if you like the idea of Bruce as Cespedes leverage. (Which I also think is bullshit.) Honestly, I can't believe the amount of "like" around this one.

Fman99 Aug 07 2016 03:38 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I feel like the Dilson Herrera type of prospects -- middle infielders who are fast, have good gloves, and hit for no power at all -- come through the system at very regular intervals. So I like it. They need someone to hit for power if/when Cespedes departs.

Rockin' Doc Aug 08 2016 12:00 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I voted indifferent. I can't fault the Mets for trying to add a power bat to bolster the anemic offense. The Mets need all the offensive help they can get, but I'm afraid this is too little too late. I think the Mets may wish they had Dilson Herrera back in 2017. As for Max Wotell, I am not very familiar with him, but the Mets are well stocked with good young arms. They can afford to deal one for some offensive help.

Nymr83 Aug 08 2016 01:20 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I voted "Indifferent" but I'm not really indifferent, just neutral. Bruce fills a need for next year if Cespedes walks and while Cespedes is on the DL right now. he's pretty redundant when everyone is healthy and I think it even hurt the team to have Lagares' defense ride the bench with 3 butchers out there. The Mets have been decimated by injuries but Herrera still wasnt playing - that tells me all I need to know about what the Mets thought of his future, let us hope they were right.

Edgy MD Aug 08 2016 01:40 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Well, the Mets have been befouled by injury, but in fairness, at every position but the one Dilson plays, so I wouldn't conclude that they lost faith in him. Indeed, it's certainly not true to say that he hits for no power at all. He's hit 58 homers as a minor leaguer. Even in his small and not particularly impressive sample size as a big leaguer, he has hit enough to project to 20 homers over 162 games.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 08 2016 03:48 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

All Bruce does is hit for power. He doesn't walk. He doesn't field well, even to the limited extent that he ever did. He doesn't throw. And he runs like an old corner outfielder. He is, in a career year, barely even in the conversation to being a replacement for an injury-limited Cespedes; he is categorically NOT a replacement for Cespedes. This was an approaching-Kazmir-level bad trade (in personnel exchanged AND in timing), only you guys don't realize it yet.

Edgy MD Aug 08 2016 04:02 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I asked this earlier, but can someone please inform me about when and how Bruce went from one of the most feared (if not THE most feared) arms in the league to a guy who "can't" or "won't" throw. Did he get hurt or did his skills just get away from him?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 08 2016 04:11 AM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Whatever the reason, he's doing a significantly-worse job at keeping runners from taking the extra base (third/home) on hits to right over the last three years, with this year's arm-runs-above-average numbers being the worst. It's possible the issue may be related to his significant decline, range-wise, over the same period-plus; like, his getting to balls later/in poorer position to throw gives him less time and opportunity to make plays.

Lefty Specialist Aug 08 2016 12:26 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

This trade only works immediately if you got rid of Granderson and had a real center fielder. It'll work better next year. But losing Dilson will hurt down the road. This is almost like the Beltran trade in reverse. I don't think it was leverage on Cespedes one way or the other. He's gonna do what he's gonna do.

Centerfield Aug 08 2016 01:14 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It's getting rid of a young (YOUNG young) potential cornerstone and a VERY promising young arm in the service of remaining in contention. (Exactly the wrong reason for a lopsided trade of future-for-present; we wouldn't remember Fullmer-for-Ces NEARLY as fondly if it hadn't come along with d'Arnaud and Wright returning, and put us over the top.) And Bruce has one tool. ONE. AND he's redundant, position-wise. Plainly put, it's a shitty deal. Even with Nimmo in it instead, it's worth it only if you like the idea of Bruce as Cespedes leverage. (Which I also think is bullshit.) Honestly, I can't believe the amount of "like" around this one. Preach on brother.

Edgy MD Aug 08 2016 02:30 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Now let's move on to "VERY promising young arm." Wotell is typically ranked 16th to 19th among Mets prospects. He hasn't played above Kingsport where his ERA approached 4.00. He's got talent but he's a project. He probably has a big league future, but whether he will succeed there is up in the air. This describes half a dozen guys.

TransMonk Aug 18 2016 03:14 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Switched from indifferent to dislike. The more I think about this trade, the more it seems like the most desperate move Sandy has made in his years here. I have my suspicions that ownership may have meddled in this one. I wasn't that fond of Bruce in Cincy, but I worry a lot about his ability to produce in NYC.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 18 2016 03:23 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

He's not been good but anyone can look like shit over the 70-some at-bats Bruce has had so far. Plus the rest of the lineup is clearly compromised. If he's still sucking bhmc 5 weeks from now we can think of selling him in December.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 18 2016 05:06 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Even if he does the best that he could possibly do, given his current physical abilities, it's a bad trade, in terms of aim and value. As it stands, it's terrible.

Edgy MD Aug 18 2016 07:31 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I don't think ownership meddled at all. I'm not sure what folks expected Alderson to do. Herrera hasn't even debuted with the Reds yet.

Ceetar Aug 18 2016 07:32 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think ownership meddled at all. I'm not sure what folks expected Alderson to do. Herrera hasn't even debuted with the Reds yet. Could promoted Herrera instead of trading for Bruce.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 18 2016 07:32 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I wonder if the Mets woulda tried harder to keep Murphy if, last off-season, they thought of Herrerra they way they now do.

Edgy MD Aug 18 2016 07:41 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I don't think ownership meddled at all. I'm not sure what folks expected Alderson to do. Herrera hasn't even debuted with the Reds yet. Could promoted Herrera instead of trading for Bruce. OK, I'm not sure that was a solution to anything, but sure. I can get behind that.

smg58 Aug 18 2016 07:49 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

Herrera has been outperformed by Gavin Cecchini this year (they're approximately the same age), plus playing Cecchini at short and moving Cabrera to second next year would likely help our defense. (Cecchini may very well wind up moving to second himself when Rosario is ready, but one thing at a time.) We didn't go from having an obvious middle infield option for next year in-house to having none. I do think it's a fair question why Cecchini didn't get a call this past month, given the quality (or lack thereof) of our options.

Edgy MD Aug 18 2016 07:51 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I'm totally OK with not dealing. I'm just saying that if you're going to be dealing, this is what deadline deals look like. But hey, they dealt from strength, and they dealt the guy whose options were running out.

TransMonk Aug 18 2016 09:43 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

I would have advocated for not dealing.

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2016 09:55 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

There was definitely a sense of 'best bat available' which drove this deal. Would have been nice if there had there been a high-OBP/leadoff/CF type instead but those were all out of stock even at the big box store. So, yeah, I think 'no deal at all' was the logical alternative to this deal but of course that choice is usually the one which draws the strongest hatred ('Cheap-ass bastards aren't even trying!!!!') and the concept of best available bat when discussing how to improve the worst offensive lineup is certainly a defendable option. That he's redundant/corner OF is a minus but that he's around for next year isn't when almost certainly one of him/Grandy/Cespedes won't be here.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 18 2016 10:07 PM Re: Trade Poll: Dilson Herrera and Max Wotell for Jay Bruce

cant complain when my team goes for it 1.5 games out though the opportunity they might have missed was moving Reed for something valuable as well.