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José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

SteveJRogers Sep 25 2016 01:24 PM

Marlin pitcher Jose Fernandez dies in a boating accident :( [url]https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/780033846188380160

metsmarathon Sep 25 2016 01:25 PM José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Holy shit that's terrible

themetfairy Sep 25 2016 01:32 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Horrible :(

Nymr83 Sep 25 2016 01:32 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Today's game against the Braves cancelled. Who do the Mets face this week - a dispirited Marlins team ready to end the season, or a newly motivated team?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 25 2016 01:35 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

omg

TransMonk Sep 25 2016 01:37 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Breaks my heart.

Lefty Specialist Sep 25 2016 01:55 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Just awful. He was going to be a star. Very sad.

Frayed Knot Sep 25 2016 02:07 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Holy shit!! Already was a star obviously, but also seemed like one of the good guys in the sport. A bit aggressive for some tastes but mostly just highly competitive and would have been one of the faces in the sport for the next decade or so.

Edgy MD Sep 25 2016 02:09 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

He was a star. Probably the most likely pitcher to replace to Clayton Kershaw as the top pitcher in baseball by the middle of the next year. He led the National League in Strikeouts/9 this season and it wasn't even close. Led by more than a full strikeout. 1. Fernandez (MIA) 12.488 2. Ray (ARI) 11.405 3. Scherzer (WSN) 11.057 4. Syndergaard (NYM) 10.638 5. Bumgarner (SFG) 10.094 6. Gray (COL) 10.070 7. Maeda (LAD) 9.107 8. Arrieta (CHC) 8.704 9. Lackey (CHC) 8.689 10. Lester (CHC) 8.670

HahnSolo Sep 25 2016 02:18 PM Re: José Fernandez Apparently Killed in Boating Accident

Just devastating.

Edgy MD Sep 25 2016 02:37 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

metirish Sep 25 2016 02:39 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Woke up to go to the gym,saw a Harper column about how the Mets WC chances got harder with Fernandez starting MOnday, got to the gym and my friend NIck told me what happened......it didn't register, just absolutely awful news. MLB Network had the Marlins TV announcer on , obviously broke down talking about him . Coast Guard news conference on now

Centerfield Sep 25 2016 02:39 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Terrible. No words. Defected from Cuba and was living the dream. How does that happen. He was just a kid. Saw him at Citi this year face off against Noah. It was a work event and we had great seats behind the plate. His stuff looked unhittable. Even better than Thor. Condolences to his family and inner circle. What can you say.

metirish Sep 25 2016 02:58 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 25 2016 03:31 PM

From Press conference Jose and three friends were killed , none were wearing life vests, alcohol and other illicit stuff not found on boat. Boat known to coastguards as it had been topped a few times before for safety checks.. Boar owned by person "well connected " to Marlins org, often had players out on it. EDIT - two other men

Benjamin Grimm Sep 25 2016 03:28 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

It happened at 3:15 a.m., according to the Washington Post. Boat was going at full speed when it hit some rocks. Two other people dead as well. Fernandez apparently left behind a pregnant wife/girlfriend. Also, this: The Marlins had no immediate announcement as to whether they would resume their schedule with Monday’s home game against the New York Mets. They are due to finish the season next weekend in Washington.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 25 2016 03:33 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Jesus Christ, this is awful. He was electric, and full of verve and joy (though the Chris Johnsons of the world may have seen it differently), even at the plate. Hadn't touched his potential yet as a player or person, one suspects, and that's with having lived a life and a half already in his 24 years. Teared up a little reporting the news to BetterHalfer. I cried over a Marlin, man.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 25 2016 03:39 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

All that. What a competitor.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 25 2016 03:49 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I can't help but wonder if the Marlins switching his start from Sunday to Monday cost him his life. If he was starting a day game on Sunday would he have been out on a boat at 3 am Saturday night?

Zvon Sep 25 2016 04:25 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

omg. RIP :(

smg58 Sep 25 2016 04:45 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Absolutely horrified. Obviously the sky was the limit where his talent was concerned, but he was a husband, father (at least father-to-be), friend, and teammate. "Sad" and even "tragic" are not strong enough words.

Frayed Knot Sep 25 2016 04:53 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Also, this: The Marlins had no immediate announcement as to whether they would resume their schedule with Monday’s home game against the New York Mets. They are due to finish the season next weekend in Washington. Cruel and meaningless as it may seem, they'll have to finish out the season both for their own season and for those scheduled against them. Now today's Atlanta game can probably be skipped (assuming no miracle Marlin finish that puts them in the WC mix) and both the Mets & Marlins have an open day on Thursday so it's possible that our series vs them gets slid back one day, but skipping a game outright could cause more problems than it seemingly saves.

Lefty Specialist Sep 25 2016 05:07 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Wow, Keith lost it in the opening and Gary was pretty close.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 25 2016 05:27 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can't help but wonder if the Marlins switching his start from Sunday to Monday cost him his life. If he was starting a day game on Sunday would he have been out on a boat at 3 am Saturday night? I wondered if that had anything to do with anything, but I think not. Pitching Monday instead of Sunday, if anything, makes it less likely he'd hang out on a boat late Sunday night/early Monday AM, IMO. He was prob going on that boat anyway. Aside from the obvious reasons this is terrible, it's also huge gut-punch to baseball because his electric personality really was helping nudge baseball away from the staid, boring, play-the-white, er... right way. When was the last time baseball (or any sport) lost an elite player just starting to ride the wave of his prime?? Really bummed over this.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 25 2016 05:27 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Lefty Specialist wrote: Wow, Keith lost it in the opening and Gary was pretty close. Yeah, that was something, wasn't it.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 25 2016 05:58 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Jeez, I almost cried a little.

Zvon Sep 25 2016 05:59 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Lefty Specialist wrote: Wow, Keith lost it in the opening and Gary was pretty close. I had to wait for a clip to surface (blacked out) and that really brought it home. Beautifully spoken tribute by Keith. The best words he's ever strung together. Extremely bummed over here.

Zvon Sep 25 2016 06:01 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Jeez, I almost cried a little. When Keith teared up I couldn't help doing the same myself. :( Having a problem getting into this game.

Zvon Sep 25 2016 06:03 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

[fimg=400:343d04x2]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GrJc3OWLo4WT-gNh7-8JdZ8LI9uy0lemviz8oZZlejQySgejjKxdz5QLcSO1gcD5n0BGwquZxTC3FPyagkDZsO3BPilI51Q3ZJd75oVgaK4SBSpuXqaci7zyH3BSN1zZJ5h-j1pezhhrn8YSCXRy4y2kQX7ZW0LcDRVSIz5lGlkbOyX3N1MwhegRuGwDQsauWnEtTLAhD9w8fIpaWgeX-twwTP-nYfA_fM8Z3AJnkdD--3jJifdqo8DT-P7cPuW6TJ-BKHb0SQtBXhTDzfCLjq2Ra2RxopFNBTj6fGTrDv8gg4bI7yZK77SPbD5cP7zirxWbgTstkQeVE__W2bQ_QKbnYVSdNDLpdwLDXkBEyki-DHeDrQKNf1Q6nYSid4R3-OOVQMvRzrDdGj7MhErWwQJO525zQbhr7i30D4yW6OPZbV2y4tMPOgiOe3peSzIsQjVGv2u7lxa_krMxoPINWkBhUrBHGHQSwU6LbW8OyPVDKSEUUFzKHslPC6hJX8DcWQoE8-1yQX5k-EuKZ-4oFHvmCBGcoUELA0F3SAzdLfjic23KWtkZQYN2fvtdREd-VxbR1v8wbqyxxTFeTpv1nCWBEmjhLHJY6p0sjRKo2DMYKUGjEg=w910-h1260-no[/fimg:343d04x2]

Chad Ochoseis Sep 25 2016 06:17 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

A Boy Named Seo wrote: When was the last time baseball (or any sport) lost an elite player just starting to ride the wave of his prime?? Really bummed over this. First one that comes to mind is Lyman Bostock. This royally sucks. Sympathies to the family, the Marlins, their fans, and anyone else connected with him.

Elster88 Sep 25 2016 09:19 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Sad. Reminds me of the tragic boat ride that Bobby O survived.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 25 2016 09:28 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I wondered if that had anything to do with anything, but I think not. Pitching Monday instead of Sunday, if anything, makes it less likely he'd hang out on a boat late Sunday night/early Monday AM, IMO. He was prob going on that boat anyway. I'm not sure I follow. He died on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. If he was scheduled to pitch a Sunday afternoon game, he probably (I would think!) would have been in bed instead of on that boat at 3 a.m. So today's game was "canceled" and not "postponed" which suggests it won't be made up. If the Marlins finish a half game out of the wild card, they'll have to circle back and play the game on Monday, which could be problematic if other tiebreaker games need to be played that day.

Centerfield Sep 25 2016 09:36 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

If he were pitching Sunday there is no way he's out on a boat at 3 am the night before.

MFS62 Sep 25 2016 09:38 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

My avatar is Brian Cole. I understand how his fans and family feel. Someone once said that nothing good ever happens after 2 AM. RIP. Later

TransMonk Sep 25 2016 09:56 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I lost it along with Keith. It's a shame. I'll always remember Fernandez as a tremendous talent and huge competitor.

Rockin' Doc Sep 26 2016 12:55 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Traagic and sad. My heart goes out to the families and friends of all three men who lost their lives early this morning.

Edgy MD Sep 26 2016 03:42 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Just looking at the numbers here, and depending on how things shake out this week, Fernandez looks like a perfectly viable candidate for the first posthumous Cy Young Award.

Nymr83 Sep 26 2016 05:30 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Edgy MD wrote: Just looking at the numbers here, and depending on how things shake out this week, Fernandez looks like a perfectly viable candidate for the first posthumous Cy Young Award. the argument can be made. Saw a number on ESPN that got me thinking... [url]http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17633105/tragic-loss-jose-fernandez-leaves-us-wondering-been-mlb Among right-handed pitchers whose careers began since World War II, do you know how many had a better ERA+ through 70 starts or more? That would be none. Zero. Behind Fernandez you'll find the likes of Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver and Roger Clemens. Fernandez was off to a greater career start than all of them. Wow. Assuming that Stark is choosing his words carefully, what Left-Handed pitcher bested that mark? All the greats I can think of - Koufax, Johnson, Carlton, Glavine - started their careers slowly. Even Bumgarner and Kershaw had at least one year as an average-ish guy before exploding, as did my next guess, Johan Santana. I went and googled a few more names not knowing enough about their careers - Ford didn't do it. Spahn came close, but shouldn't be eligible as he began his career (barely) before or during the war. So, who is it?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2016 09:43 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Fernando Valenzuela?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 26 2016 11:11 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Carlton? Lefty Grove?

seawolf17 Sep 26 2016 12:06 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Piece of CPF history, too... Fernandez's ML Debut was at Citi Field, and was a CPF meet up game. Me, Irish, Marathon, Lunchy, and a few others with all our assorted progeny.

SteveJRogers Sep 26 2016 12:30 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

IGT for that game [url]http://archives.thecranepool.net/19300/f14_t19351.shtml

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2016 01:09 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I honestly have no memory of the Mets having had a pitcher named "Laffey".

MFS62 Sep 26 2016 01:32 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 26 2016 01:37 PM

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Carlton? Lefty Grove? OE: I named somebody who played before WW II. Never mind. Later

HahnSolo Sep 26 2016 01:34 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I was there for his last start in NY. Little Solo caught a Batting Practice HR, and Cespedes walked it off in extras. I had forgotten that he was the starter--and pitched well--until my son reminded me.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2016 01:37 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Jeez, I almost cried a little. Me too, except for the almost. I've stood for dozens of moments of silences at ballparks, I suppose. There's usually enough time between the passing of whoever is being honored and the gesture of respect so that I find myself given over to reflection or appreciation. This news was four hours old yesterday. I imagine a measurable slice of the crowd was just learning of his passing from Alex Anthony.

Centerfield Sep 26 2016 01:39 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Details are emerging now about the accident. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... topstories The boat was traveling at significant speed when it struck a jetty. The pictures are horrific. If it gives any comfort to the families, the impact of the crash appears to have killed the victims. They did not drown. Alcohol does not appear to be a factor. So dangerous to travel at that kind of speed, at night, when visibility is limited. And yes, if the Marlins had not switched his start to Monday, it seems Jose would have been grieving the loss of his friends yesterday, rather than being one of the victims.

A Boy Named Seo Sep 26 2016 03:09 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: A Boy Named Seo wrote: I wondered if that had anything to do with anything, but I think not. Pitching Monday instead of Sunday, if anything, makes it less likely he'd hang out on a boat late Sunday night/early Monday AM, IMO. He was prob going on that boat anyway. I'm not sure I follow. He died on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. If he was scheduled to pitch a Sunday afternoon game, he probably (I would think!) would have been in bed instead of on that boat at 3 a.m. So today's game was "canceled" and not "postponed" which suggests it won't be made up. If the Marlins finish a half game out of the wild card, they'll have to circle back and play the game on Monday, which could be problematic if other tiebreaker games need to be played that day. Yeah I forgot what day it was and everything made less sense after. Nevermind me.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 26 2016 03:54 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

G-Fafif wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Jeez, I almost cried a little. Me too, except for the almost. I've stood for dozens of moments of silences at ballparks, I suppose. There's usually enough time between the passing of whoever is being honored and the gesture of respect so that I find myself given over to reflection or appreciation. This news was four hours old yesterday. I imagine a measurable slice of the crowd was just learning of his passing from Alex Anthony. I really liked Fernandez. He was my favorite active baseball player, non-Mets division. I don't always have a favorite non-Mets active that I follow closely. Willie Stargell, when I was first discovering baseball. Rickey Henderson as a teen-ager and young adult. And Fernandez. And I think that's it. I followed Fernandez's career closer than any other non-Met and that's saying something because I don't do fantasy baseball. I know that as a Mets fan, I was supposed to hope that the Mets missed him whenever they played the Marlins being how dominant Fernandez was, but I rooted for the opposite -- that the Mets would face Fernandez so that I would get to see him in action. I've been to six Marlins games over the past three seasons yet never got to see Fernandez pitch live. Seeing him pitch live was on my short list of baseball things to do. This is a terrible tragedy and I still can't get over the idea that he's dead and gone forever.

themetfairy Sep 26 2016 04:38 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

We saw him pitch in a Spring Training game in March. It's surreal that this young, lively being is gone. RIP Jose

G-Fafif Sep 26 2016 05:43 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I really liked Fernandez. He was my favorite active baseball player, non-Mets division. I don't always have a favorite non-Mets active that I follow closely. Willie Stargell, when I was first discovering baseball. Rickey Henderson as a teen-ager and young adult. And Fernandez. And I think that's it. I followed Fernandez's career closer than any other non-Met and that's saying something because I don't do fantasy baseball. I know that as a Mets fan, I was supposed to hope that the Mets missed him whenever they played the Marlins being how dominant Fernandez was, but I rooted for the opposite -- that the Mets would face Fernandez so that I would get to see him in action. I've been to six Marlins games over the past three seasons yet never got to see Fernandez pitch live. Seeing him pitch live was on my short list of baseball things to do. This is a terrible tragedy and I still can't get over the idea that he's dead and gone forever. Eight starts against the Mets, four at Citi Field. I got to one of them, versus Harvey, June 8, 2013. It went 20 innings. Neither phenom earned a decision. Three of his eight starts versus the Mets had Harvey on the mound. That was going to be one of the great rivalries. The 20-inning game spoke well for both of them (1 run given up by each of them over 6 for JF, 7 for MH), but the last time they met, on June 5 of this year in Miami, was the truly sublime matchup. Matt seemed to be coming out of his morass and Jose was surely on top of his game: 4 hits, no walks, 14 K's. He won the duel, 1-0. When I visited the team store after yesterday's game, the amount of unsold Matt Harvey merchandise was staggering. Out of sight, out of favor, I guess. As it happened, I was wearing the Mets shirt I plucked out of my drawer in the morning: HARVEY 33, which seemed too on the nose to be random in light of what I'd learned a little while before. It's the same shirt I wore to that 20-inning game.

Edgy MD Sep 26 2016 05:50 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Wright is perhaps even more out of sight, but has not been as removed from the psyche of Mets fans or their spending habits, I imagine. Part of that is Wright's longer tenure, to be sure. But I imagine that, taking away each of their ready ability to perform, Harvey doesn't leave you as much left to hang your hat on.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2016 05:52 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I've been wondering about that FERNANDEZ 16 jersey that was hanging in the Mets dugout. I read that they're bringing it with them to Miami. I think they should leave it there, donate it to the Marlins museum, if they have one, or just to the organization in general if they don't have a museum yet. If they don't do that, sooner or later we may find out that they're selling it at auction, which would, of course, be crass and tasteless. Which is why I'm afraid they might do it.

Mets Guy in Michigan Sep 26 2016 06:04 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I read that the Marlins are all wearing No. 16 tonight. A nice gesture.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2016 06:19 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been wondering about that FERNANDEZ 16 jersey that was hanging in the Mets dugout. I read that they're bringing it with them to Miami. I think they should leave it there, donate it to the Marlins museum, if they have one, or just to the organization in general if they don't have a museum yet. If they don't do that, sooner or later we may find out that they're selling it at auction, which would, of course, be crass and tasteless. Which is why I'm afraid they might do it. Jeff's idea, allegedly.

seawolf17 Sep 26 2016 06:20 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been wondering about that FERNANDEZ 16 jersey that was hanging in the Mets dugout. I read that they're bringing it with them to Miami. I think they should leave it there, donate it to the Marlins museum, if they have one, or just to the organization in general if they don't have a museum yet. If they don't do that, sooner or later we may find out that they're selling it at auction, which would, of course, be crass and tasteless. Which is why I'm afraid they might do it. Jeff's idea, allegedly. Which was his idea -- making the jersey, or selling it? (Or both?)

G-Fafif Sep 26 2016 06:20 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 26 2016 06:21 PM

Edgy MD wrote: Wright is perhaps even more out of sight, but has not been as removed from the psyche of Mets fans or their spending habits, I imagine. Part of that is Wright's longer tenure, to be sure. But I imagine that, taking away each of their ready ability to perform, Harvey doesn't leave you as much left to hang your hat on. A lot of the Harvey stuff is of the "this guy is huge, let's print up more!" variety. Not HARVEY 33 as much as "Happy Harvey Day!" and ancillary gear. Somewhere a warehouse stocked to the gills with Kaz Matsui Celebriducks bursts at its seams.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2016 06:21 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 27 2016 12:21 PM

seawolf17 wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been wondering about that FERNANDEZ 16 jersey that was hanging in the Mets dugout. I read that they're bringing it with them to Miami. I think they should leave it there, donate it to the Marlins museum, if they have one, or just to the organization in general if they don't have a museum yet. If they don't do that, sooner or later we may find out that they're selling it at auction, which would, of course, be crass and tasteless. Which is why I'm afraid they might do it. Jeff's idea, allegedly. Which was his idea -- making the jersey, or selling it? (Or both?) Just the jersey (according to Cespedes). We'll see about Authentic Game-Hung Merchandise.

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2016 06:46 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Wright is perhaps even more out of sight, but has not been as removed from the psyche of Mets fans or their spending habits, I imagine. Part of that is Wright's longer tenure, to be sure. But I imagine that, taking away each of their ready ability to perform, Harvey doesn't leave you as much left to hang your hat on. A lot of the Harvey stuff is of the "this guy is huge, let's print up more!" variety. Not HARVEY 33 as much as "Happy Harvey Day!" and ancillary gear. Yeah, I suspect there was a thought over last winter that the second year back from TJS would result in a CY-caliber season from Harvey (I was on that train). But then the effect of a rocky first half followed by the nonexistent second is a ton of overstock. Wright #5 shirts are, I'm sure, not only already on more backs and in more closets in NYC than any other single piece of NYM merch but the rate of sale likely more predictable and not as given to rushes and droughts.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2016 06:54 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

The clubhouse shop also stocks merchandise for Seaver, Hernandez, and Piazza, and it's really been a long time since any of them have played. Their place in Mets history, however, is secure. And the same can be said of David Wright.

Nymr83 Sep 26 2016 08:57 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Edgy MD wrote: Wright is perhaps even more out of sight, but has not been as removed from the psyche of Mets fans or their spending habits, I imagine. Part of that is Wright's longer tenure, to be sure. But I imagine that, taking away each of their ready ability to perform, Harvey doesn't leave you as much left to hang your hat on. Wright is in that category of guys - like Seaver, Strawberry, Patrick Ewing, Freakin' Jeter, etc where his jersey sales are no longer dependent on playing - he is an all-time Mets great and they'll be selling shit with his name on it 20 years from now. Harvey has not reached that category - if he never pitches for the Mets again his future jersey sales will probably be relatively nothing.

Nymr83 Sep 26 2016 08:58 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fernando Valenzuela? no, and its driving me nuts - I wonder if Stark misspoke and there is nobody?

Edgy MD Sep 26 2016 09:09 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Ron Shmidrey. Dynamite start to his career, and not bad on the skins either. [fimg=450:lwxbkblo]http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ron-guidry-of-the-new-york-yankees-puts-together-a-drum-in-front-of-picture-id145008208[/fimg:lwxbkblo]

Rockin' Doc Sep 26 2016 09:51 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Don Gullett had some tremendous years with Cincinnati. After looking him up he did have a great start, but his third year (as a 21 year old) pretty well knocked him out of contention.

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2016 10:33 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Nymr83 wrote: Among right-handed pitchers whose careers began since World War II, do you know how many had a better ERA+ through 70 starts or more? That would be none. Zero. Behind Fernandez you'll find the likes of Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver and Roger Clemens. Fernandez was off to a greater career start than all of them. Wow. I don't know about that stat. Gooden's ERA+ through his first three seasons (99 starts) was 155 (and if limited to just his first 70 it would be better still - like 180-ish) while Fernandez's through his career of 76 starts was 'only' 150. Not sure what exactly it is he's comparing here and it might take a bit of creative math to make things work. Like can you root around and find a point in JF's career when his ERA+ is better than a particular point in the careers of others? Maybe, but what does that show? I just found a couple of points when it didn't within five minutes and that was checking on one guy that he already dismissed. Something's not worded correctly somewhere.

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2016 11:56 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Ballplayers who died during their careers Not all listed were major leaguers.

Nymr83 Sep 27 2016 02:12 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I think there are players missing - I remember reading that 2 players, not 1, died in WW2

Edgy MD Sep 27 2016 02:17 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Doubtless that minor league and amateur players who we never heard of, but were otherwise destined for stardom, died during World War II.

Frayed Knot Sep 27 2016 02:42 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Nymr83 wrote: I think there are players missing - I remember reading that 2 players, not 1, died in WW2 I remember hearing/reading that too, but that both were marginal players (and far before my time) so I never knew who either were and therefore don't know who the 'missing man' is. On the other hand it's good to see that there are far fewer ballplayer deaths from tuberculosis these days as compared to a century ago.

Centerfield Sep 27 2016 09:10 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Marcel Ozuna was invited to go on the boat with him. He declined to spend time with the wife and kids. Reports say Fernandez was drinking at a local bar and purportedly fought with his girlfriend before heading out on the boat around midnight.

themetfairy Sep 27 2016 09:12 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

So long as he wasn't driving the boat (and by all accounts it appears that he wasn't), then it shouldn't matter whether he was drinking.

seawolf17 Sep 27 2016 11:19 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

A friend -- who is an avid boater -- said "not to belittle the tragedy, but if you're out on a boat at that hour of the night, you'd better really know what you're doing and not be speeding."

Benjamin Grimm Sep 27 2016 11:20 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

That does seem rather obvious.

Nymr83 Sep 28 2016 02:19 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That does seem rather obvious. "If you are driving down [insert rural highway with no lights here] late at night, you'd better not be doing 90 if you don't know the bends (or else...)" "if you are in the company of Donald Trump, you'd better not be speaking Spanish (or else...)"

Edgy MD Sep 28 2016 02:27 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

It's exactly the kind of foolish decision young men make every day. From 17-25, young men pretty much play a daily game of Russian Roulette. I also think of him out the night before a day game and being the spokesman for Five-Hour Energy Drink.

Centerfield Sep 28 2016 01:40 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Edgy MD wrote: It's exactly the kind of foolish decision young men make every day. From 17-25, young men pretty much play a daily game of Russian Roulette. I also think of him out the night before a day game and being the spokesman for Five-Hour Energy Drink. This is exactly right. A 24 year old who gets into a fight with someone then takes out his anger by driving something too fast (and recklessly) happens every day. It's the type of mistake that one looks back on later and thinks "Wow, was that stupid." Except some don't get that luxury. I may end up being wrong, but if I had to guess, Jose probably had a few drinks, got into a fight with his girlfriend, then released that anger by driving his boat 100 mph. The texts exchanged by his friends are pretty damning. It sounds like they knew about his temper and had an idea that he was going to do something stupid.

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2016 01:54 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Dan LeBatard (somewhat intentionally) comes off as a clown on TV (hey, it's what they want) but his background is in newspapers, his base is Miami, and his heritage Cuban http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-c ... 96841.html

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 28 2016 02:11 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Centerfield wrote: The texts exchanged by his friends are pretty damning. It sounds like they knew about his temper and had an idea that he was going to do something stupid. Yeah. Very much recognizable among 20-something bros dealing with a dangerous buddy.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2016 02:58 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I was afraid to type anything like that shortly after the accident, because I didn't want to come across as judgmental of a fallen hero. But the reality is that I did a lot of stupid dangerous shit while brimming with attitude when I was a young man. And I did it without drugs and alcohol. I survived by luck and grace and sometimes by having a saner second thought. But I would later go to work for an education magazine, and ended up getting to do a lot of reading on brain development, and realized that, by some evolutionary kink, the judgment center in a young man's brain isn't fully formed until 25 or 26. It doesn't mean teenage girls don't make stupid choices, but generally, you're a lot safer with a 16-year-old girl keeping track of the uranium than a 23-year-old young man. The research suggests that young men's brains can do pretty much anything at 23 that they'll ever be able to do, except make safe, smart decisions. In a prior age, these guys would be put under an authoritative thumb — conscripted into the army or working off their apprenticeship — holding the world together but protected from having to make any life-or-death calls, but now they are freely moving among us, throwing their splitters and driving their boats and staffing neighborhood watch patrols.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 28 2016 03:22 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I flash back to a troubled housemate I had in college, nice kid but a maniac with a deathwish and a fast VW Sirocco that I was riding in at least twice I can remember when I knew I shouldn;t have been. Once I'm just glad we didn;t crash cuz no one would have survived, the second time was a minor accident (no injuries) that would have been worse had the car had enough time to get to speed before running the red at the corner.

Centerfield Sep 28 2016 03:33 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2016 03:36 PM

Yup. I had the same thoughts riding in the passenger side of a Honda CRV driven by a buddy of mine who had a propensity to pass cars even over a double yellow. I see him post support for Trump now on Facebook and wonder why I trusted that kid with my life. Not that I was any smarter during HS or college. It's just that I had no money for a boat or a motorcyle, and my car topped out at about 38 MPH.

Frayed Knot Sep 28 2016 03:35 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2016 03:46 PM

I can only imagine how big an asshole I would had been if I had millions of dollars as a 24 y/o.

Centerfield Sep 28 2016 03:35 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

And also, now that the touching tributes are over, everyone should prepare themselves for the toxicology reports, the accusations, rumblings of criminal charges, and most likely, the wrongful death suits that will follow. Such is the trajectory of tragedies.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 28 2016 03:36 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

LOL. I had a 1976(?) or 78 Honda Civic parked alongside the Sirocco for awhile, back when Honda made better lawnmowers than cars.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2016 03:43 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Young men are also very good at being vicariously stupid, climbing into the passenger seat of a car (or a boat) that they know their crazy friend is going to operate in a manner they perhaps never would themselves. If we survive, we can totally do the intellectual gymnastics to absolve ourselves of the stupidity.

Lefty Specialist Sep 28 2016 07:29 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I've always told my wife that it's a good thing she didn't meet me when I was twenty, because if she had she would have run for the hills. Had to get my ya-ya's out first.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 28 2016 08:17 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been wondering about that FERNANDEZ 16 jersey that was hanging in the Mets dugout. I read that they're bringing it with them to Miami. I think they should leave it there, donate it to the Marlins museum, if they have one, or just to the organization in general if they don't have a museum yet. If they don't do that, sooner or later we may find out that they're selling it at auction, which would, of course, be crass and tasteless. Which is why I'm afraid they might do it. They're doing the right thing! Adam Rubin wrote: The jersey on display in the New York Mets' dugout the past two games to show solidarity with the Marlins will be presented to Miami team officials. Mets players were asked to sign the Mets jersey, which included Jose Fernandez's last name and the No. 16, before Tuesday’s game.

metirish Oct 29 2016 07:27 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Cocaine and alcohol in his system , a series of bad choices , sucks http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/29/us/miami- ... oxicology/

Edgy MD Oct 29 2016 07:58 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

It also speaks to how some of these guys are floating under the radar with regard to illicit drug use, despite the testing regime in place.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 29 2016 09:00 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Good point. I assume they're still testing for cocaine and heroin, right? And not just for PEDs?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 29 2016 09:41 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Coke/alcohol kinda matches up with the sort of behavior those night-of texts from the buddy was describing (aggressive and agitated, unable to be constrained, IIRC).

d'Kong76 Oct 29 2016 09:46 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Aside from PED's I always assumed there's a comprehensive test for everything not legal too. I have friends with CDL's that get tested for insurance purposes and it's just one urine sample from time to time.

themetfairy Oct 29 2016 10:27 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Wait until cooby sees this....

Ashie62 Oct 29 2016 11:10 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Testing for drugs of abuse is not administered randomly, but on a basis of reasonable cause. If one of the HPAC panel members has evidence that a player has used, possessed, or sold banned substances in the last 12 months, they call a conference and discuss the evidence with the other members. If a majority vote to test the suspected player is reached then testing will take place no more than 48 hours later. Drugs of abuse include natural cannabinoids (e.g., THC, hashish and marijuana), synthetic THC and cannabimimetics (e.g., K2 and Spice), cocaine, LSD, opiates (e.g., oxycodone, heroin, codeine, and morphine), MDMA (ecstasy), GHB and phencyclidine (PCP). Schedule 1 testing is not mandatory.

Zvon Oct 29 2016 11:55 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

metirish wrote: Cocaine and alcohol in his system , a series of bad choices , sucks http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/29/us/miami- ... oxicology/ The first thing I thought when I read that was I wish I hadn't read it. Some things I'd just rather not know.

Frayed Knot Oct 30 2016 12:03 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Ashie62 wrote: If one of the HPAC panel members has evidence that a player has used .... Who or what is HPAC?

Mets Guy in Michigan Oct 30 2016 12:58 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Heartbreaking.

d'Kong76 Oct 30 2016 01:11 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

HPAC and the Wiki-page on MLB drugs and stuff...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 30 2016 01:18 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

if he was as into 5 Hour Energy as he appeared to be in commercials not a shocker he was into the coke too.

Lefty Specialist Oct 30 2016 06:07 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Sad but not entirely unexpected given the circumstances of his death.

Centerfield Oct 31 2016 03:12 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Lefty Specialist wrote: Sad but not entirely unexpected given the circumstances of his death. Yup. It's actually like the least surprising thing in the world. Not sure if the journalists who are reacting to this are feigning shock in an attempt to write an interesting column or are the most naive person in the world. Actually, take that back. I think I know what the answer is. Now will come the disputes over who was driving the boat, and whether there is a basis to sue Fernandez.

seawolf17 Oct 31 2016 04:17 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Zvon wrote: Cocaine and alcohol in his system , a series of bad choices , sucks http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/29/us/miami- ... oxicology/ The first thing I thought when I read that was I wish I hadn't read it. Some things I'd just rather not know. And yet... fuckin' hell, kids. This was a guy who seemingly had everything... and yet, the drugs won. If I'm Dwight Gooden, I'm thanking my lucky stars I didn't buy a boat in 1986.

Frayed Knot Mar 16 2017 04:31 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Centerfield wrote: Now will come the disputes over who was driving the boat, and whether there is a basis to sue Fernandez. And the answers are: 1) Fernandez, and 2) yes -- according to the results of the police report which became public today. The families of the other two victims were already in the process of suing to get a payout from JF's estate anyway, but this certainly gives them more ammo for their case. In fact the report added that, had Jose survived the crash, the circumstances dictated that he would be brought up on manslaughter charges. The boat was doing 65 mph at the time of the crash.

seawolf17 Mar 16 2017 04:46 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Frayed Knot wrote: Now will come the disputes over who was driving the boat, and whether there is a basis to sue Fernandez. And the answers are: 1) Fernandez, and 2) yes -- according to the results of the police report which became public today. The families of the other two victims were already in the process of suing to get a payout from JF's estate anyway, but this certainly gives them more ammo for their case. In fact the report added that, had Jose survived the crash, the circumstances dictated that he would be brought up on manslaughter charges. The boat was doing 65 mph at the time of the crash. I wonder about situations like this now that the raw sadness is gone. You want to honor his on-field success, but at the same time, this looks like he was being a complete jackass.

Ashie62 Mar 16 2017 06:47 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Still want a uni patch for Jose? [url]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/investigation-into-jose-fernandez-crash-concludes-he-was-driving-boat-intoxicated/ My moral compass says no. I got laughed down when I suggested a uni patch might not be the best idea. End result? three dead young men dead.

seawolf17 Mar 16 2017 08:11 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Ashie62 wrote: Still want a uni patch for Jose? [url]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/investigation-into-jose-fernandez-crash-concludes-he-was-driving-boat-intoxicated/ My moral compass says no. I got laughed down when I suggested a uni patch might not be the best idea. End result? three dead young men dead. That's kind of my point. It taints the memory a bit too much for me; I don't know that I'd want to hold him up as a beacon all season long.

Edgy MD Mar 16 2017 08:38 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Ashie, you certainly weren't laughed down.

Ashie62 Mar 16 2017 08:39 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I got carried away. Three young lives were lost in a tragedy that didnt need to happen. r.i.p.

Ashie62 Mar 16 2017 08:40 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

Edgy MD wrote: Ashie, you certainly weren't laughed down. Hyperbole is my middle name Edgeward.

d'Kong76 Mar 16 2017 08:55 PM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

I re-read the thread before, no laugh down. Not a trace. Not a smidgen. Let's leave hyperbole to the nut en El Casa Blanca.

Edgy MD Aug 05 2018 01:49 AM Re: José Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

José Altuve now doing the 5-Hour Energy Drink commercials. I'm not particularly superstitious, but I wouldn't touch that account.