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Bring Back Ces

Centerfield Oct 06 2016 03:39 PM

Whatever else you do, just bring back Ces.

seawolf17 Oct 06 2016 03:57 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Whatever else you do, just bring back Ces. Yes, definitely.

themetfairy Oct 06 2016 03:59 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Bring Back Yo!

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2016 04:05 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

The Mets, I think, have exclusive negotiating rights with Cespedes until the end of the World Series. I'd love to see this get resolved, with an extension for Cespedes, before anyone else gets a chance to talk to him. He says he wants to stay, so let's make it happen!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 06 2016 04:08 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

He's signed. Does he opt out, is the thing? (He will.)

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2016 04:08 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Last year's thread on this very same topic: Re-sign Cespedes

HahnSolo Oct 06 2016 04:14 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

He'll definitely opt out, because at the very least I think he can get more in FA than what he's guaranteed the next two years. But I think he likes it here, and I think a deal gets done.

Centerfield Oct 06 2016 04:24 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Mets, I think, have exclusive negotiating rights with Cespedes until the end of the World Series. I'd love to see this get resolved, with an extension for Cespedes, before anyone else gets a chance to talk to him. He says he wants to stay, so let's make it happen! This is my hope too. I think a 2 year extension (from the remaining 2 years now) will get it done. Actually, I don't know that, but I hope that. I hope that we are willing to offer that money, and I hope that he takes it. He does seem to genuinely like playing here.

MFS62 Oct 06 2016 06:56 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

They'll have the money if he wants to renegotiate after opting out. There will be an extra $10 million available for raises and re-signings because I don't think they'll bring Walker back. Later

Centerfield Oct 06 2016 07:18 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

MFS62 wrote: They'll have the money if he wants to renegotiate after opting out. There will be an extra $10 million available for raises and re-signings because I don't think they'll bring Walker back. Later I think that money will be largely eaten up by arbitration raises etc. Plus, if they are extending, we aren't so much talking about 2017 as we are 2019-2021.

Ashie62 Oct 06 2016 08:55 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

200 million? Goodbye Yoyo [url]http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2016/10/yoenis_cespedes_told_mets_people_he_wont_be_back_r.html#incart_river_index

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2016 09:02 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

This is the same kind of stuff we were hearing last year though, so who knows?

d'Kong76 Oct 06 2016 09:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I don't think much happened on the field that will change the non-Mets market climate for Yo. I think outside of us, he has a couple of big fat *'s next to his name for potential suitors. Like last off-season, if someone wants to pay him for a 6-7 year deal at big-big $$'s I'm willing to say god bless and offer a friendly sayonara to the big guy! I don't think that's gonna happen and he'll be a Met next year again. How that happens exactly we'll just have to see.

Ceetar Oct 06 2016 09:21 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think much happened on the field that will change the non-Mets market climate for Yo. I think outside of us, he has a couple of big fat *'s next to his name for potential suitors. Like last off-season, if someone wants to pay him for a 6-7 year deal at big-big $$'s I'm willing to say god bless and offer a friendly sayonara to the big guy! I don't think that's gonna happen and he'll be a Met next year again. How that happens exactly we'll just have to see. I agree, he both proved himself to be an improving/better hitter than before AND cast some aspersions on his ability to stay healthy and on the field for a long contract.

seawolf17 Oct 07 2016 01:37 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think much happened on the field that will change the non-Mets market climate for Yo. I think outside of us, he has a couple of big fat *'s next to his name for potential suitors. Like last off-season, if someone wants to pay him for a 6-7 year deal at big-big $$'s I'm willing to say god bless and offer a friendly sayonara to the big guy! I don't think that's gonna happen and he'll be a Met next year again. How that happens exactly we'll just have to see. All of this, yes. He'll be back.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 07 2016 02:19 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'd bet if he does return it would be with a similarly structured deal, and would also say the market as a whole moves in this make-good direction given that as uncomfortable as it is for fans, its simply more economically agreeable for the clubs -- and it worked this time. So not saying the Mets have the market cornered on 1/2 year, big $$AAA + opt-out/options, or that there still aren't clubs that will be willing to blow that out of the water with a multiyear guarantee, but that Cespedes might be choosing between such Met-like offers this time.

Ashie62 Oct 07 2016 04:43 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Maybe the insurance money collected on David Wright can help keep Cespedes here.

Centerfield Oct 21 2016 05:32 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Like super quiet here. I think it's clear this won't get done by the end of the World Series. I fear he's gone.

Frayed Knot Oct 21 2016 05:49 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: I fear he's gone. He re-signed last year at the tail end of January.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 21 2016 06:15 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Yeah, I'm not worried yet. Just because no news has leaked out it doesn't mean that conversations haven't been had. There's still about another two weeks to go with the Mets having exclusive rights to Cespedes.

Gwreck Oct 21 2016 06:33 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Like super quiet here. I think it's clear this won't get done by the end of the World Series. I fear he's gone. Think about it the other way: if you were Cespedes, why would you sign now? Even if you wanted to come back to the Mets, you'd still leverage your position to get the best possible deal, which means have 30 teams bidding for your services, right?

Ceetar Oct 21 2016 06:52 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yeah, I'm not worried yet. Just because no news has leaked out it doesn't mean that conversations haven't been had. There's still about another two weeks to go with the Mets having exclusive rights to Cespedes. well, sort of. Cespedes is under contract. It's all but a foregone conclusion that he's going to opt out, but it's another wrinkle in negotiation. Balls in his court so to speak.

Edgy MD Oct 21 2016 07:00 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Gwreck wrote: Like super quiet here. I think it's clear this won't get done by the end of the World Series. I fear he's gone. Think about it the other way: if you were Cespedes, why would you sign now? Even if you wanted to come back to the Mets, you'd still leverage your position to get the best possible deal, which means have 30 teams bidding for your services, right? I think you'd sign because your team, knowing that their period of exclusivity is expiring, makes you the deal you are looking for based on an honest understanding of what you might get on the open market, and you, appreciating their good faith, and fearing they might withdraw that offer and move on if you don't share in that good faith and insist on shopping around, thus dampening the competition, happily sign. I mean, plenty of folks sign extensions rather than hit the market.

Lefty Specialist Oct 21 2016 07:19 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

He'd be crazy not to opt out. It's a weak FA class and I'd have to think he could command at least 6/150 if not more. Of course, i didn't think there was a chance in hell that they'd re-sign him last winter, so yaneverknow.

Ashie62 Oct 21 2016 08:59 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Can we take all the free agent money and donate to charity where it might actually be useful?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 21 2016 09:13 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Let the Nationals, Marlins, Phillies, and Braves do that.

d'Kong76 Oct 21 2016 09:32 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Ashie62 wrote: Can we take all the free agent money and donate to charity where it might actually be useful? You're all over the map, Ashie. A couple of weeks ago you were counting the Wright insurance money to fork over to B B Ces...

Ashie62 Oct 22 2016 01:35 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I know KC. Sometimes I wonder what the millions paid to marginal players could do for the world. But, thats true of showbiz and other stuff also. Lisa's final days are coming near and I am more neurotic than usual. I love Cespedes and believe he will remain a Met after some hand wringing. I need to listen to LAMF.

TransMonk Oct 22 2016 04:28 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Like super quiet here. I think it's clear this won't get done by the end of the World Series. I fear he's gone. Buster Onley's Insider* headline this morning: Mets have the luxury to slow-play winter market with Cespedes *I didn't link to the article because of its Insider-iness.

Fman99 Oct 22 2016 09:21 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Even if he opts out I think he'll end up in a Mets uni next year. He loves the city and ballpark and no one is backing up the truck for him at this age. It's basically the same thing as last off season.

Centerfield Oct 24 2016 02:32 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Like super quiet here. I think it's clear this won't get done by the end of the World Series. I fear he's gone. Buster Onley's Insider* headline this morning: Mets have the luxury to slow-play winter market with Cespedes *I didn't link to the article because of its Insider-iness. I can't read the article itself, but here is this little blurb from MLB Trade Rumors: “There is no urgency” for the Mets to chase Yoenis Cespedes, a source tells ESPN’s Buster Olney (subscription required) since the team already has some outfield depth on hand and can pursue more on the open market for a lower price than Cespedes will command. That said, the Mets would like to have Cespedes back and they’re willing to wait him out this offseason, perhaps if Cespedes is open to accepting another front-loaded contract with an opt-out clause from the team. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/10/ ... rlins.html I don't know who this source it, but I hope that this is just gamesmanship rather than their actual line of thinking. the team already has some outfield depth on hand Agreed. And by depth, we mean "lots of outfielders who are not nearly as good as Yoenis Cespedes". and can pursue more on the open market for a lower price than Cespedes will command. Also correct. If we are looking for players who are not as good as Yoenis Cespedes, I have no doubt that we can find more on the open market who will be cheaper than Cespedes. perhaps if Cespedes is open to accepting another front-loaded contract with an opt-out clause from the team. Obviously we have to see how this situation plays out, but if the Mets are banking on this, I would think Cespedes would be gone. The whole idea behind last year's deal was so that he could cash in on this year's weak free agent market. The knock against him last year was that he had performed beyond career norms, and he was competing against a strong FA class. This year, he is possibly he strongest FA target, and has added a year of production to his performance from last year. Unless they float a 5 year deal, I don't see him coming back. Someone is going to offer that deal. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone float 6-7 years.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 24 2016 02:41 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

And it would be a hell of a thing if that team was in the National League East.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2016 03:00 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'm not sure I'd say they have lots of outfielders who are not nearly as good as Yoenis Céspedes. At least, it's not as clear as all that. Right now, there is no room for Michael Conforto to start regularly. Conforto may ultimately be a washout, but there's certainly an argument that he has more to give a team over the next five years than Céspedes. I don't feel the same gun-to-my head urgency. Céspedes produced a 133 OPS over 132 games at age 30, while being an enigmatic presence on the base paths and on defense, mixing occasional excellence alternatively with maddening aloofness.* That's certainly a guy I want back, but not at all costs. They did well to play it out last year. I root for them to do it again this year, and hopefully get him back on terms that are desirable, or alternatively, use the money toward a wiser alternative. * Virtually the same profile turned Bobby Bonilla into a pariah.

Centerfield Oct 24 2016 03:46 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure I'd say they have lots of outfielders who are not nearly as good as Yoenis Céspedes. At least, it's not as clear as all that. Well let's see. In 2016, he was 85 points higher in OPS than his closest competitor. 159 points over the second runner up, and 199 points over the guy who would be your third starting outfielder. He has better career numbers than anyone in the outfield. In fact, only Granderson, entering his age 36 season, is even in the neighborhood. So yeah, I'm putting out there that it is, in fact, clear as all that. Do you not see that the depth argument doesn't apply? Having lots of crappy options doesn't give you depth. Especially when you are talking about three positions. Thanks to the emergence of Lugo and Gsellman, the Mets have depth in the rotation. They have depth at closer. They have depth at shortstop. They do not have depth in the outfield. Edgy MD wrote: Right now, there is no room for Michael Conforto to start regularly. Conforto may ultimately be a washout, but there's certainly an argument that he has more to give a team over the next five years than Céspedes. This is a straw man argument. I'm a big believer in Conforto as well, and I hope (and believe) that he will straighten himself out. But there are three outfield positions, including two corners. It's not an either/or situation. Just because we hope that Conforto might possibly be better than Cespedes someday does not mean we should not bring back Cespedes. Edgy MD wrote: I don't feel the same gun-to-my head urgency. Céspedes produced a 133 OPS over 132 games at age 30, while being an enigmatic presence on the base paths and on defense, mixing occasional excellence alternatively with maddening aloofness.* That's certainly a guy I want back, but not at all costs. They did well to play it out last year. I root for them to do it again this year, and hopefully get him back on terms that are desirable, or alternatively, use the money toward a wiser alternative. I don't think anyone is conveying gun-to-head urgency. And there isn't a player in history that is worth "all costs". And who in the world wouldn't want money to be put toward a "wiser alternative" should he walk. I just think that everyone should understand the degree of difficulty we would be facing if he were to walk away. Olney seems to be suggesting that there are many options. Encarnacion, Bautista, Mark Trumbo. I think none of these make any where as much sense as Cespedes. And if you are thinking to go the "incremental increase over several positions" route, I think it's important to be realistic about how difficult it is to upgrade the 26th ranked offense in MLB through such a philosophy.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2016 03:48 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Do you not see that the depth argument doesn't apply? Having lots of crappy options doesn't give you depth. Especially when you are talking about three positions. Thanks to the emergence of Lugo and Gsellman, the Mets have depth in the rotation. They have depth at closer. They have depth at shortstop. They do not have depth in the outfield. I don't think they have lots of crappy options. I think they have good options, some of whom have their best years ahead of them, last year's numbers notwithstanding. I don't believe bringing up Conforto is a straw man argument at all. He has no position right now, and he may be a better bet over the next five years than Conforto.

Ceetar Oct 24 2016 04:30 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

If I had to wager, I'd probably wager on Cespedes being worth more in 2020 than Conforto. Though I don't think the Mets are going to sign Cespedes, nor should they, for 4-5 years. The probability that Cespedes is better than Conforto, and Nimmo, and Bucerra in 2019 is even better. I'd really like Yoenis back but I do think there are other + guys they can get, and I'm a little concerned about defense and not really having anyone that plays CF well. I'd be okay with faking it with Cespedes if the LF/RF guys were good defenders, but they're unlikely to be. The Mets defense is so bad all around.

Centerfield Oct 24 2016 05:09 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Do you not see that the depth argument doesn't apply? Having lots of crappy options doesn't give you depth. Especially when you are talking about three positions. Thanks to the emergence of Lugo and Gsellman, the Mets have depth in the rotation. They have depth at closer. They have depth at shortstop. They do not have depth in the outfield. I don't think they have lots of crappy options. I think they have good options, some of whom have their best years ahead of them, last year's numbers notwithstanding. I don't believe bringing up Conforto is a straw man argument at all. He has no position right now, and he may be a better bet over the next five years than Conforto. Perhaps you and I have different definitions of "depth". To me, "depth" means: "We would like this guy, but we don't necessarily need him next year, because we have other guys who can do what he does." "We would love to re-sign Bartolo Colon. But we don't necessarily need him next year, because we Syndergaard, Matz, deGrom and Harvey. Plus the emergence of Gsellman and Lugo make him a luxury. Our rotation, even with injuries posted the third best ERA in baseball. We want to focus on our 26th ranked offense." Valid argument that you have depth. We would love to re-sign Yoenis Cespedes. But we don't necessarily need him next year, because we have Michael Conforto, Curtis Granderson and Jay Bruce. Sure, none of them can do what he does, and to be honest, none of them even really come close. But we think Conforto might be able to someday. And sure, Granderson is 36 and declining, and Bruce was never as good as Cespedes to begin with, even while playing in a pitcher's park, but we think it will be ok. After all, we made the playoffs with the 26th ranked offense. How much worse can it possibly get? Not a valid depth argument.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2016 05:15 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'm not really making that argument.

Centerfield Oct 24 2016 06:07 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not really making that argument. Then make your argument Edgy. Don't just pick at mine. I've told you what I consider "depth" and demonstrated why I don't think they have it. You obviously felt otherwise, causing you to cast doubt. Then explain. I get what you are saying about Conforto. And I am right there with you on him. Despite this past year, I really believe he's going to be a star. But let's face it, at best, this is one guy that we are hoping might someday, possibly be better than Cespedes. I would bet every organization has one guy that they hope will be better than 2016 Cespedes. (and most of those guys will fail). That's not depth.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 24 2016 06:18 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

My guess is that if Cespedes leaves, his replacement is going to be somebody named "Jay Bruce." And then maybe they'll sign a Dexter Fowler (my fingers insist on typing "Flower" instead) to put in center. And that would be our outfield: Bruce-Fowler-Granderson. Would that be good enough? Maybe, but I'm far from convinced that it would.

Centerfield Oct 25 2016 01:39 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

This guy at Rising Apple seems to agree with me. https://risingapple.com/2016/10/24/mets ... edes-rush/ Before we get to that, let’s dispel this myth perpetuated by Olney that the market is “flush with sluggers.” The “sluggers” Olney is referring to are Edwin Encarnacion (34 years old), Jose Bautista (36), and perhaps Josh Reddick (30). Beyond that, there are players like 31-year-old Mark Trumbo , who alternates horrific years with great ones and Ian Desmond, who does the same. So no, the market is not “flush” with sluggers. Cespedes is the cream of the crop offensively, and the Mets and every other team in baseball knows it. And let’s also dispel the myth that the rest of the Mets’ team is so strong that they can afford to wait this out. Their pitching staff is that strong. Their offense is not. Yup.

metirish Oct 27 2016 01:04 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Opting out after the WS according to various reports ( Hetman etc)

MFS62 Oct 27 2016 01:18 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: But we don't necessarily need him next year, because we have Michael Conforto, Curtis Granderson and Jay Bruce. Sure, none of them can do what he does, And what he does is hit right handed with power. IMO the team needs a righty hitter to balance the middle of the lineup, and any other player they get to replace him would have to provide that. Later

Centerfield Oct 27 2016 01:54 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Agreed. And any other player that they can sign would be older and more flawed. Adam Rubin speculates that Cespedes is looking for a 5 year deal. Such a deal would only take him to age 35. If a 5 year deal would get it done I'd offer it to him now. And to be honest, the Mets needed another right-handed threat even with Cespedes. If he leaves, they'll need two. Good luck with that Mets.

metirish Oct 27 2016 02:06 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Christ , I am not yet ready to contemplate Cespedes being gone , it's an awful sized hole to fill( notwithstanding some stuff)

Ceetar Oct 27 2016 01:45 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

he didn't get a 5 year deal last year and he's a year older and dealt with injuries. He put up an arguably worse, if slightly, year than 2015. Still a nice year, but still.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 27 2016 01:52 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I can see him getting four years, $100 million. And I'd like to see him get that from the Mets. Sure, it's risky at the back end, but there are some risks that you have to be willing to take.

Centerfield Oct 27 2016 03:47 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

And I think a deal like that to Cespedes would be less risky than the other options I see thus far. Namely: 1. Another slugging FA (Encarnacion/Bautista etc). They are older, and not as good all around, and we don't know how they'd perform here. Riskier than Ces. 2. Trade. I have no idea who might be available. But they would cost talent. And anyone nearly as good as Ces will cost some combination of Lugo/Gsellman/Rosario/DomSmith. We've already lost Michael Fullmer. It would be a shame to give up more. 3. Don't replace him with a star and make several smaller upgrades instead. To me, this is the riskiest of all. Well, at least if the objective is to win anyway. Cespedes was our only top 40 guy in OPS. Teams without such a guy basically don't make the playoffs. I know that a 35 year old, complacent Cespedes sounds scary, but to me, thinking of this lineup without him is much scarier.

Edgy MD Oct 27 2016 04:05 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

A deal like that would be pretty beneficial for the Mets. I think he's looking for a higher salary rate and/or more guaranteed years. And if the Mets hope to get him to agree to that package, it'd likely be another waiting game before he does.

Mets Guy in Michigan Oct 27 2016 04:35 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Ashie62 wrote: I know KC. Sometimes I wonder what the millions paid to marginal players could do for the world. But, thats true of showbiz and other stuff also. Lisa's final days are coming near and I am more neurotic than usual. I love Cespedes and believe he will remain a Met after some hand wringing. I need to listen to LAMF. Ashie, I just saw this. I'm not sure who Lisa is, but I can tell this is a painful time. Thinking about you, my friend. I get what you mean about the salaries. I'm not sure about the exact quote, but Bill Veeck said something along the lines of that it's not the salaries of the superstars that hurt you, it's the price of the mediocre players all going up. (And, I'm sure, the prices Veeck was complaining about then were far below what the minimum salary is today. Owners have probably been complaining about salaries for as long as there have been owners.)

Centerfield Oct 27 2016 07:35 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: A deal like that would be pretty beneficial for the Mets. I think he's looking for a higher salary rate and/or more guaranteed years. And if the Mets hope to get him to agree to that package, it'd likely be another waiting game before he does. The irony here is that it's likely that a five year deal last season would have locked in Cespedes last winter. But such a deal was looked upon as "risky". The deal that ensued, the three year, high annual salary deal, with the opt-out, was regarded as much safer. Now a year later, I think many of us would prefer we had given him a five year deal, and that we have just four years left, rather than looking at having to extend him now for 5 or more years. Just goes to show you that being risk averse can be risky.

Ashie62 Oct 28 2016 04:07 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I don't see anything wrong with offering Ces 5/125. He is a fan favorite and a player that can carry a team on his back. Please sign him Sandy.

d'Kong76 Oct 28 2016 04:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I really don't see why some think things this off-season are so much different than last off-season with regards to Yo. I'd be shocked, and I'd laugh, if someone gives him a long-term mega deal.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2016 04:30 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: A deal like that would be pretty beneficial for the Mets. I think he's looking for a higher salary rate and/or more guaranteed years. And if the Mets hope to get him to agree to that package, it'd likely be another waiting game before he does. The irony here is that it's likely that a five year deal last season would have locked in Cespedes last winter. But such a deal was looked upon as "risky". The deal that ensued, the three year, high annual salary deal, with the opt-out, was regarded as much safer. Now a year later, I think many of us would prefer we had given him a five year deal, and that we have just four years left, rather than looking at having to extend him now for 5 or more years. Just goes to show you that being risk averse can be risky. I kinda like the idea of incentivizing a guy to sing for his supper, and the Mets' success with it last year suggests to me that's its a route you might expect to see more clubs try. I have no idea what will happen but my gut feeling is if the Mets get Cespedes back it'll be with a similar-type offer. More generally, I suspect clubs are just coming to grips with the notion that 6-year deals are just not great investments most of the time, and probably want to give out less of them.

Centerfield Oct 28 2016 05:09 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Don't get me wrong, I think that the 3 year opt out deal was better for the Mets. Especially given his six week performance over career norms. I'm just saying that there are downsides to that type of deal. And we are seeing the downside now. Basically, there is no such thing as a safe deal. I think it would be nice to get him on the same type of structure this year. But there are a number of factors working against him: 1. Much weaker free agent class. 2. Now instead of half a season of MVP type numbers, he has a season and a half 3. I bet a part of him feels like he's "earned" a commitment from the Mets. If the Mets don't offer it, I can see him taking it as a slight and leaving. And most importantly, although I think more teams will try the short-term/opt-out style deal, it only takes one team to offer five years or more. And if they do, that team wins. The Mets are in a position where: 1. The top free agent seems to want to play here. So just a competitive offer probably gets it done. 2. They desperately need the production of that top free agent. In fact, they need more than him, but they absolutely can't afford to take a step back. 3. The other free agents are much worse choices.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2016 05:43 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: ...it only takes one team to offer five years or more. And if they do, that team wins. Maybe. How much do we know about what the Nationals offered him last year? I seem to remember hearing that they offered him more guaranteed years than the Mets did.

Edgy MD Oct 28 2016 05:47 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

It's important to remember he didn't really put up MVP-type numbers, and he wasn't particularly close. He was 53rd in fWar, for instance. Guys ahead of him included Odubel Herrera and Charlie Blackmon, Cesar Hernandez and D.J. LeMahieu.

Ceetar Oct 28 2016 05:56 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: It's important to remember he didn't really put up MVP-type numbers, and he wasn't particularly close. He was 53rd in fWar, for instance. Guys ahead of him included Odubel Herrera and Charlie Blackmon, Cesar Hernandez and D.J. LeMahieu. He was "in the conversation" offensively, but I definitely don't think the Mets should punt defense. especially with no defense anywhere.

Ashie62 Oct 28 2016 06:49 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Analytics trumps common sense.

Ashie62 Nov 03 2016 08:34 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I am going to guess some AL team offers Ces something like 7/200 knowing he can DH. I wouldn't put it past Texas or Anaheim.

Centerfield Nov 05 2016 12:32 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Unless I missed it he hasn't opted out yet. Maybe Sandy has been covertly working with him on an extension?

d'Kong76 Nov 05 2016 01:54 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Maybe there is something going on, why wait until the very last minute and on a Saturday? He has until 11:59 PM this evening.

Centerfield Nov 05 2016 03:56 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I guess it doesn't make sense to throw away $49 million until you have to. Just in case he tears his ACL watching TV today or something. But still. A girl can dream.

Lefty Specialist Nov 05 2016 06:14 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, he opted out. Now the game is afoot.

Edgy MD Nov 05 2016 07:13 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, we can take our money, not go to Mets games, not buy Mets' shit, and not subscribe to cable and internet packages, and donate that.

Zvon Nov 05 2016 07:13 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, he opted out. Now the game is afoot. [fimg=400]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/14/00/3732024B00000578-0-Jeremy_Brett_failed_to_make_the_shortlist_of_those_being_conside-m-52_1471130375465.jpg[/fimg] And so it is. And now, we wait. Jeremy Brett=best Holmes ever.

Ashie62 Nov 05 2016 09:41 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Competition there will be. [url]http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/520450/yoenis-cespedes-opts-out-of-mets-contract?ls=roto:NYM:topheadlines

Nymr83 Nov 06 2016 03:10 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Ashie62 wrote: Analytics trumps common sense. I think you are conflating 'common sense' with 'poor emotion-based decision making' Cespedes is certainly a good player, but the Mets shouldn't pay him based on what he's done for them already. "Analytics" is very good thing - The Mets can look at players like him and project his numbers over the next X years (where X is the potential offer) and decide what those years are likely to be worth. The other available options, the state of the roster, etc certainly come into play but you need to establish what you believe to be a baseline of value first. the fact that the Mets are in "win now" mode may also come into play - they may be willing to to eat some lower value years at the end of a multi-year deal in order to get the guy they feel they need now. but that decision needs to be made with the knowledge that that is what they are doing - not with the blind faith that every other player (who wasn't on steroids circa 1995-2005) has declined as they got older but this one won't.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 03:26 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

It's important to remember he didn't really put up MVP-type numbers, and he wasn't particularly close. He was 53rd in fWar, for instance. Guys ahead of him included Odubel Herrera and Charlie Blackmon, Cesar Hernandez and D.J. LeMahieu. Somehow missed this the first time around. I don't know that it's important to remember that at all, in the context of the point I was making. In fact, I would go as far as to say it's unimportant. But if you must: I think it would be nice to get him on the same type of structure this year. But there are a number of factors working against him: 1. Much weaker free agent class. 2. Now instead of just a half a season of MVP type numbers, he has [crossout]a season and a half[/crossout] followed it up with a full season of really fucking good, albeit not quite MVP numbers. 3. I bet a part of him feels like he's "earned" a commitment from the Mets. If the Mets don't offer it, I can see him taking it as a slight and leaving. Better? And like I said. My point remains the same. I don't know what fWAR is, having just learned the new stats like WAR the past few years. I do know that WAR is a cumulative stat where one is negatively impacted for missing time and for playing out of position defensively. I'm guessing fWAR doesn't adjust for the park seeing as you cite to two Phillies and two Rockies. I will also say that if fWAR is suggesting that Odubel Herrera is better than Yoenis Cespedes, then it is extremely limited in usefulness. Ashie62 wrote: Analytics trumps common sense. Yup.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 03:42 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Nymr83 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Analytics trumps common sense. I think you are conflating 'common sense' with 'poor emotion-based decision making' Cespedes is certainly a good player, but the Mets shouldn't pay him based on what he's done for them already. "Analytics" is very good thing - The Mets can look at players like him and project his numbers over the next X years (where X is the potential offer) and decide what those years are likely to be worth. The other available options, the state of the roster, etc certainly come into play but you need to establish what you believe to be a baseline of value first. the fact that the Mets are in "win now" mode may also come into play - they may be willing to to eat some lower value years at the end of a multi-year deal in order to get the guy they feel they need now. but that decision needs to be made with the knowledge that that is what they are doing - not with the blind faith that every other player (who wasn't on steroids circa 1995-2005) has declined as they got older but this one won't. I think that is exactly what the Mets are going to have to measure. Those crap years at the end of the contract. Whether they would be better off with Cespedes at 35 or Encarnacion at 37. Or whether whatever they'd have to give up in what I would guess would be a competitive trade market (given the crappy FA market) would be worth it. The Mets have their work cut out for them. Kinda the wrong year to be looking to upgrade a 26th ranked offense.

Fman99 Nov 07 2016 03:46 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

I think fWar is this crazy ass metal band that wears goofy outfits and shit. I could be wrong, though, because in the context of OF performance, that doesn't make a ton of sense.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 07 2016 04:10 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

The thing about this year's Cespedes performance is, it built on last year's offensive "aberration." Slightly higher wOBA, virtually the same isolated-power numbers, and a better walk rate (coupled with better plate selectivity), to boot. The defensive numbers only slipped because he was playing center (where, yeah, he ISN'T very good); if last year's numbers bear out, then he's still a great (and maybe still elite) left fielder... most likely for at least another 1-3 years. Basically, he showed that 2015 wasn't an aberration, but a ripening.

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 11:53 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: I'm guessing fWAR doesn't adjust for the park seeing as you cite to two Phillies and two Rockies. Of course it does. And I'm pretty happy with my grasp of common sense. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The defensive numbers only slipped because he was playing center (where, yeah, he ISN'T very good); if last year's numbers bear out, then he's still a great (and maybe still elite) left fielder... most likely for at least another 1-3 years. They slipped also due to him playing 27 fewer games and being hurt pretty much the whole second half.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 04:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Like I said, I don't really see why you think the distinction is important. The topic was the likelihood of a club offering a multi-year deal to Cespedes. If you think the distinction between "MVP-like" numbers and "All-Star level" numbers would prevent a club from making an offer then I'd love to hear why. The point was that a year later, his second half 2015 looks less like an aberration, and more like an awakening. Honestly, I don't see a club saying "He followed up his MVP second half 2015 with only All-Star level production this year? Sure, I know he's the best all-around player on the market, and the youngest, but if he's not even in the MVP discussion, fuck that guy. Go get me Trumbo!"

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 04:27 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Like I said, I don't really see why you think the distinction is important. Because you made a statement, and I thought the facts didn't support it. Does that mean an offer shouldn't be made? Of course not. Please don't try and play me into a position I haven't taken. It means, quite obviously, that his offer shouldn't particularly be based on a factor of "MVP-type numbers" when they weren't.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 05:00 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Then I think you and I disagree on the word "important". If it doesn't change the conclusion, specifically, that multi-year offers will be made, then it isn't "important". Allow me to illustrate. I think Jimmy is a bad guy. He is a bad guy because (1) he is engaged in a crime ring. (2) He is racist and homophobic. (3) I saw him punch his wife in the face and chest last Tuesday. I think it is important to remember that Jimmy did not punch his wife in the chest, only in the face. Ok. You're right. Jimmy only punched her face, which I guess, is slightly better. The fact of the matter is Jimmy is still a pretty bad fucking guy. In our situation, "MVP-like" versus "All-Star-level" is similarly irrelevant. You're right. He was all-star level. Not MVP level. He's still likely getting a shit-ton of offers. The distinction you make, which has no effect on the main conclusion, is "niggling" perhaps. Maybe "irritating" or "annoying". It is certainly not "important". It is only "important" if your objective is "Point out every mistake Centerfield makes, no matter how insignificant, or irrelevant to his main idea."

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 05:46 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, if you're annoyed, I'm sorry. I think it's relevant, and certainly not personal. Is there any way to acceptably disagree with you without you teasing it out like this and putting a chip on your shoulder? Because it's getting difficult.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 06:17 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Is there any way to acceptably disagree with you without you teasing it out like this and putting a chip on your shoulder? Because it's getting kind of crazy. Yes. Absolutely. If you agree that the multi-year offers will come in but feel the need to make the correction: Well, I don't think he put up MVP numbers in any sense, but your larger point is taken. Completely fine! Agreed! He's not really a 2016 MVP candidate. Not irritating at all. If you disagree, and you think the lack of MVP numbers is relevant: I don't think he put up MVP numbers at all and so the offers won't be there. I think this distinction is important because....analysis...facts...backup. Also fantastic. We can have an intelligent discussion. But this: It's important to remember he didn't really put up MVP-type numbers, and he wasn't particularly close. He was 53rd in fWar, for instance. Guys ahead of him included Odubel Herrera and Charlie Blackmon, Cesar Hernandez and D.J. LeMahieu. This leaves me guessing why. Why is it important? Why are you citing to fWar? Are you saying these guys are better than Ces? Posts like this make me have to guess at your point. Which inevitably leads to: Please don't try and play me into a position I haven't taken. I would love not to. Say what you mean. Tell me why you think it's important. Tell me what difference you think it will make. I will repeat what I said to you earlier in this thread. Then make your argument Edgy. Don't just pick at mine. If you think the distinction is significant, if you think it will make an affect on the likelihood of a long-term offer, explain it...please. I'm all ears.

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 06:23 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I say what I mean fine.

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 06:26 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

If you want to know why, ask why. It should be obvious, but if isn't you can ask, not open up on me. You chose the latter. Again. I don't know why.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 07:25 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy, It is very frustrating. You make statements like this: Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: Like I said, I don't really see why you think the distinction is important. Because you made a statement, and I thought the facts didn't support it. The facts not supporting my statement doesn't make it important. It just makes it wrong. You are basically saying "You were wrong. I felt like it was important to point out that you were wrong, because you are wrong." Regardless of whether it changes the overall point, or whether it makes any difference as to the conclusion, you just want to point out when people are wrong. That is annoying.

Vic Sage Nov 07 2016 11:19 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

forget it Jake... it's Chinatown.

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 11:43 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Yeah, again. I'm sorry you're annoyed. I don't know how you can't see that it's relevant that a guy you're demanding be brought back is being incorrectly assessed. And that it's self-evident. Because it is. I try and be as brief as possible, because the more I write, the more you re-write and turn into something else. If I could type a single character, I would. That's the level of self-censorship I'm undertaking with you. But if I disagree at length, you twist everything I write into something I didn't write. If I disagree in brief, you're annoyed, because I don't give you enough material to twist into something else. It's pointless and exhausting. I'll just stay clear.

Zvon Nov 08 2016 12:28 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Vic Sage wrote: forget it Jake... it's Chinatown. I'm gonna have to make a graphic for BOC.

Centerfield Nov 08 2016 02:20 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, again. I'm sorry you're annoyed. I don't know how you can't see that it's relevant that a guy you're demanding be brought back is being incorrectly assessed. And that it's self-evident. Because it is. I try and be as brief as possible, because the more I write, the more you re-write and turn into something else. If I could type a single character, I would. That's the level of self-censorship I'm undertaking with you. But if I disagree at length, you twist everything I write into something I didn't write. If I disagree in brief, you're annoyed, because I don't give you enough material to twist into something else. It's pointless and exhausting. I'll just stay clear. I think the problem here is that you're not being honest with yourself. I mean, you're not being honest with me, but the more I think about it, I think you are lying to yourself as well. I think you are bright enough to capture the main idea of a simple post, and I think you are thorough enough to go back and read to make sure. I think you fully understand the difference between insignificant and meaningful error, and whether a distinction is worth mentioning. I think you understand everything I am saying but you can't help yourself from making these comments anyway. Why? Because you don't want the Mets to re-sign Yoenis Cespedes. And it irritates you to read people advocate for him all over this board. That is why you say things like "I'm not sure I'd say they have lots of outfielders who are not nearly as good as Yoenis Céspedes." or call him "an enigmatic presence on the base paths and on defense, mixing occasional excellence alternatively with maddening aloofness." Occasional excellence? Really? That's why you compare him to Bobby Bonilla, point out he's not an MVP candidate and remind everyone that he's worse than Odubel Herrera when it comes to fWar. But you won't admit you don't want Yoenis Cespedes. That's why you stretch to make impossible arguments as to why the Mets shouldn't sign him. And that's why it comes across as disingenuous. Now, I don't think it's anything personal. You didn't like any of the big name free agents last year as well. In fact, during the 15 years or so that we've been posting, I don't think I've ever heard you say, "You know who wold be awesome for this team? Big Name Slugger about to hit the free market. That's who!" And it was one thing when you used to justify it by saying you don't covet other teams' players, but this is our player. So just admit it. You want a team of scrappy home grown guys who don't make a lot. It's ok to say so. I don't know why you would want that, but hell, it's your preference. No one can tell you what you should like. Just do me the favor of being up front about it so I can stop wasting my time with logical arguments.

Edgy MD Nov 08 2016 03:37 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: I think the problem here is that you're not being honest with yourself. No, this isn't true. But you've insulted me again. For no reason. Again. And amazingly, made up a position I didn't take. Again. At length. Over and over and over. Over nothing. Because I disagreed with you. It's astounding. I have no way of engaging you. At all. I'll stop. I promise. I just don't have the time to deny all the garbage you throw at me. Not even close to enough.

Centerfield Nov 16 2016 02:32 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Have this nightmare where he goes to San Francisco. With Bumgarner. And the Seavers. I know patience is the right move, but dammit Sandy, sign this guy so I can rest. Adam Rubin has an article that the payroll now is about $123 million. http://www.espn.co.uk/blog/new-york/met ... ion-123-9m If they sign Ces, you figure you are at $150 million. We don't know exactly where the Mets end up, but one has to figure that this doesn't leave much room to upgrade anywhere else. If they trade Bruce, then you have some wiggle room which probably gets used up by a few bullpen arms. They definitely need a quality left-hander. Basically, even if they bring back Cespedes, I don't see how they can upgrade the offense. Not a lot of great options out there, especially in our positions of need, and not a lot of money in the budget to sign free agents. GM-ing is tough.

Lefty Specialist Nov 16 2016 03:52 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, not clogging things up with $17.2 million to Walker would have been a good start.

Ceetar Nov 16 2016 03:58 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I haven't thought about the Mets payroll in years. It was a fools game even when Alderson was giving 'hints' to it's cap, even more so now.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 16 2016 08:47 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Mike Puma wrote: Cespedes' market, at the moment, is the Mets and three other teams, I was told. Cespedes camp expects early-December resolution.

Edgy MD Nov 16 2016 09:04 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Great, A-Rod wanted a tent, and Céspedes needs a whole camp. #24and1

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2016 09:33 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

So do four teams trying to out-fox each other mean that he gets the fifth year on the contract he wants? Probably.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 16 2016 09:37 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Yeah, I think so too.

cooby Nov 17 2016 12:22 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Zvon wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, he opted out. Now the game is afoot. [fimg=400]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/14/00/3732024B00000578-0-Jeremy_Brett_failed_to_make_the_shortlist_of_those_being_conside-m-52_1471130375465.jpg[/fimg] And so it is. And now, we wait. Jeremy Brett=best Holmes ever. Fish I loved that show.

Centerfield Nov 17 2016 04:38 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

All over twitterverse tonight that Cespedes texted the organization and indicated his desire to return. This is per Sandy. I didn't know you could text the organization as a whole. How do I get this number? Hey Mets, I would like to get a contract offer too. Text me!

Fman99 Nov 17 2016 11:14 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

You just add #ebbetsfield and it goes right to Fred Wilpon's cerebral cortex, I think.

Ceetar Nov 17 2016 12:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: All over twitterverse tonight that Cespedes texted the organization and indicated his desire to return. This is per Sandy. I didn't know you could text the organization as a whole. How do I get this number? Hey Mets, I would like to get a contract offer too. Text me! I mean, yes, of course, this is how negotiations work right? you say "Why yes, this is my first choice I love this place it's so great and a perfect fit" I plan to tell a recruiter just that today!

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2016 01:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: I didn't know you could text the organization as a whole. How do I get this number? Imagine the shit we'd text, during games or otherwise, if we were to get a hold of such a super-secret number? Hey @Mets, your last trade sucked and tell Terry to quit bunting so much. Oh yeah, and my frickin' beer isn't cold enuf!!

d'Kong76 Nov 17 2016 10:32 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Print up your Ces signs! https://www.nysportsday.com/2016/11/17/ ... st-choice/

Rockin' Doc Nov 18 2016 12:32 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

I would love to have Cespedes back to anchor the heart of the Mets line up, but I'm not sure I want him back if it is going to take 5 years at $100-110 mil. I think the final 2-3 years of such a deal could cripple the Mets in the future. There are some big paydays due to our young pitchers (DeGrom, Syndergaard, Harvey, and Familia) and I would hate to lose some of them while the Mets are overpaying for an aging Cespedes. It's not the amount per year that makes me nervous, but the length of the contract that gives me pause.

Edgy MD Nov 18 2016 01:40 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Rockin' Doc wrote: ... but I'm not sure I want him back if it is going to take 5 years at $100-110 mil. I'm thinking we're looking at a price north of that.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 18 2016 01:57 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Definitely. The contract will average at least $25 million per year. Maybe as much as $30 million.

Rockin' Doc Nov 18 2016 02:29 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

If it is going to take 5 years for 125-150 mil. then I would pass and look elsewhere.

Ashie62 Nov 18 2016 02:30 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

I have been think 5/125 for sometime unless some team goes rogue. Mets will have to kiss Yoyo's arse.

d'Kong76 Nov 18 2016 02:48 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Prediction: 5ish years, 120 million clams. 2017 30 clams 2018 25 clams 2019 25 clams 2020 20 clams Last 20 is a team/player option clam thingy. If the teams wants him in 2021 he gets the 20 clams. If they don't, he gets a 20 clam payoff spread over ten year installments. I'm staying with my feeling that no team is in love with the idea of throwing too many clams at this guy. He's hurt often and who knows how old he really is or if he's a juicer (current or former). I vote Yo, but not for much more than this.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 18 2016 03:17 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

If you're paying a million dollars for a clam, then you're shopping at the wrong supermarket.

Centerfield Nov 18 2016 03:38 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Rockin' Doc wrote: If it is going to take 5 years for 125-150 mil. then I would pass and look elsewhere. The problem is finding the elsewhere.

Centerfield Nov 18 2016 03:40 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If you're paying a million dollars for a clam, then you're shopping at the wrong supermarket. You should see the clams. They are big beautiful clams. The best clams. Trust me, they're gonna be amazing.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 18 2016 08:46 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Jon Heyman (you know, that guy from "Today's Knuckleball") says that the three teams against whom the Mets are competing for Cespedes are the Giants, Dodgers, and Nationals. The Daily News and the Post can recycle these covers:

d'Kong76 Nov 18 2016 09:44 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

SNY is saying Yankees too, Mr. Heyman.

Centerfield Nov 18 2016 10:25 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

The guys is clearly flirting with girls who are our sworn enemies just to make us jealous. Whatevs.

Centerfield Nov 21 2016 03:46 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Ok. We get it Ces. Point taken about the Yankees. We'll talk to Sandy about the fifth year, and you stop being a dick and talking to those assholes. Deal?

Centerfield Nov 21 2016 03:49 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

On a more serious note, there has been little to report substantively on the Cespedes front. I wonder if the offers are not materializing as he would have hoped. And to counter that, his agent is intentionally leaking "interest" from teams designed to freak us out. The MFY's, the Nats, the "wound is still fresh" Giants.

d'Kong76 Nov 21 2016 05:20 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

My stance is and always was no other team is going to jump through hoops for years and years for Yo... we must be patient. It's a holiday week, any calls to agents and teams likely go to voice mail. Check back to this thread on 12/1, it's going to be a huge day. Huge, I tell ya.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2016 04:39 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

The Puma is the Post saying essentially what was being talked about on the previous page, that someone is almost certain to offer Cespedes a fifth year and that it's unclear if the Mets are willing to meet that. As it stands, the Mets are likely committed to signing the 31-year-old if a four-year contract in the $100 million-$110 million neighborhood can be hammered out, according to an industry source, but there is less clarity on the matter when an additional year — which could push the value of a deal beyond $130 million — is considered. "Out of the teams that are interested, somebody will offer five years,” an industry source said. “And the Nationals wouldn’t surprise me.”

Zvon Nov 22 2016 01:08 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'd be okay with Stanton. Yo, you wanna flirt with the Yanks? We can play that game. According to Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe, one of the biggest—literally—sluggers on the market could be available. In a column listing players with big contracts that could be traded this winter, Miami Marlins star Giancarlo Stanton was named. One of his possible destinations should the Marlins actually explore his market: The Mets. Where will Yoenis Cespedes sign in free agency? The Marlins don't want to break up their offense, but with the death of Jose Fernandez, Stanton's name does pop up more often. [url]http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2016/11/mlb_trade_rumors_marlins_giancarlo_stanton_to_mets.html

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2016 01:31 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

That's really the flimsiest of rumors. It seems very unlikely that Stanton will be traded to the Mets, and if he is, the deal will have to include someone of the caliber of Syndergaard or deGrom. The Mets won't get him for Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2016 01:43 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Especially when you figure that Allen is nearly 60 years old at this point. Not sure why the Marlins would even consider him.

Centerfield Nov 22 2016 02:26 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Frayed Knot wrote: The Puma is the Post saying essentially what was being talked about on the previous page, that someone is almost certain to offer Cespedes a fifth year and that it's unclear if the Mets are willing to meet that. As it stands, the Mets are likely committed to signing the 31-year-old if a four-year contract in the $100 million-$110 million neighborhood can be hammered out, according to an industry source, but there is less clarity on the matter when an additional year — which could push the value of a deal beyond $130 million — is considered. "Out of the teams that are interested, somebody will offer five years,” an industry source said. “And the Nationals wouldn’t surprise me.” It seems pretty clear that the Mets have put the four year deal on the table and that the Cespedes guys have said they are looking for at least five. It's also fairly obvious that no one, thus far, has offered five years, or else we would have seen movement. And of course the Mets should keep it quiet on whether they are willing to go to five. You can't expect your four year offer to be accepted if you are whispering to your girlfriends that you'd gladly go five. I think in light of this, Sandy feels no obligation to blink first, probably confident that in the event a five year deal materializes, he'll get one last crack at it before Ces goes elsewhere (maybe this courtesy was bought by Tim Tebow). And he is probably fairly confident that if he can match the best offer out there, that he can get his man. Let's hope that this is true. I get that this is the prudent approach. It does pose risks though. If negotiations drag past the CBA date, it could allow someone like the Dodgers to get into the mix. Also, if Encarnacion signs first, Sandy runs the risk that a loser in the Edwin Sweepstakes comes in with a foolish, stupid high, reactionary 7 year deal. On the other hand, it takes two to tango, and the risk is that if you move aggressively now, Cespedes may still not commit, and then you've just bid against yourself for no reason. GM-ing is hard. Maybe they should just pull the trigger on this Stanton trade. Can't trade Neil Allen though. Obviously. He has already been signed by the Braves.

Ashie62 Nov 22 2016 05:37 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I want Cespedes and Stanton both now!

Edgy MD Nov 22 2016 06:05 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, that'd sure end the give-the-money-to-charity-instead initiative.

Ashie62 Nov 22 2016 10:55 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Oh screw charity, its the Mets.

Mex17 Nov 23 2016 12:05 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

So what I have heard (paraphrasing) is that Bautista is the "Plan B" if the market for Cespedes goes to five years, right? Riddle me this then. . . You figure that Bautista will want at least a two year deal, which would cover his age 36 and age 37 seasons. This coming off a year where his stats regressed. And there is no DH option for him (a quick glance informed me that his games played were greater than his games played in the field for at least the last few years) Conversely, an extra year for Cespedes (assuming that the Mets are comfortable with four and not so much with five) would take Cespedes into his age 35 season. So in what world is a shorter term Bautista commitment less risky at this juncture than a five year Cespedes commitment?

Edgy MD Nov 23 2016 01:39 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Well, it's two years. 730 days in which something can go terribly wrong instead of 1876. And well, it's a plan B. I'm guessing the Mets are willing to go for five years, if push comes shove, but how hard and how high relative to the other suitors is the rub.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2016 02:17 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Mex17 wrote: So what I have heard (paraphrasing) is that Bautista is the "Plan B" if the market for Cespedes goes to five years, right? It is speculation that Bautista is A Plan B if the Cespedes market goes to five years and the Mets bow out - which is by itself speculation.

Centerfield Nov 23 2016 02:06 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Haven't you heard? We are getting Giancarlo Stanton.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2016 02:08 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

For Rick Ownbey!

Zvon Nov 24 2016 04:32 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Haven't you heard? We are getting Giancarlo Stanton. Who started that rumor?! When I read that the first and almost only thing I thought was that he would more than pacify me if we couldn't get Cespedes. And I can't say I feel that way about players like Bautista and Encarnacion. I also think that getting Stanton is more of a far out fantasy than getting Cespedes back again. But that's what I do. That's what we all do. Fantasize about the Mets, lol. This is not a commercial for my blogthing.

Centerfield Nov 25 2016 03:54 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I gave this some thought over the holiday. You know what? I'm ok giving 5 years. Let's get it done. If you can make that fifth year an option, all the better, but he'll only be 35 at the end of his contract. Or, a year younger than Bautista is now. And give him an opt out after 2 years to keep the guy motivated. He can hit the market again at 33 and look for the type of deal Encarnacion is seeking.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2016 04:24 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'm also totally down with the fifth year. I admit that it may result in having a horribly overpaid and underproductive malcontent in 2021, but it's a risk worth taking. Now is not the time to worry overly much about the 2021 season.

Zvon Nov 25 2016 04:40 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I figured the Mets have already gone to five years but I can't truthfully say. I get 95% of my Mets news here. They gotta go at least 5. The Turkeyday Metropolitan talks ended on a bad note as $$ and 7 yrs whisks Yo to Washington. And of course, ever the optimistic fool, I said I don't think it's all about the $$ w/Cespedes, and we'll see. But one thing we can't let happen (if we don't have a Stanton up our sleeve) is Yo to the Nats. That would be a devastating kick in the nutz. So bring him home Sandy!

Edgy MD Nov 25 2016 07:25 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Long-term contracts to Jayson Werth and Ryan Zimmerman are a big part of the anchor keeping the Nats from going over the top these last few. I'd be surprised if they came in with seven years for Céspedes, but I'd imagine there'd be buyer's remorse almost immediately. Plus, they'd be forced to dump Werth for pennies on the dollar or move Harper to center. Plus, they haven't locked up Harper yet. They aren't the team I fear. San Francisco, maybe.

Centerfield Nov 29 2016 07:22 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Deal is done. 4 years $110 million. Pending physical.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 29 2016 07:26 PM Re: Bring Back Ces Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 29 2016 07:29 PM

As per Yahoo/Ken Rosenthal. YAHOO! (Having a source attached makes this a lot more solid.) So, basically... a two-year extension?

Centerfield Nov 29 2016 07:27 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

My word means nothing to you? Jerk. Full no trade clause.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2016 07:30 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Splitting the diff between the 4/100 and 5/125 offers discussed here, though if they "started" with 5/125 as advocated above wouldn't have gotten here. My 1 year/30 + opt-out plan didn't fly either.

d'Kong76 Nov 29 2016 07:31 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

. [bigpurple:314p6msv]Yo![/bigpurple:314p6msv]

Centerfield Nov 29 2016 07:31 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Does this mean we don't get Stanton?

Centerfield Nov 29 2016 07:34 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I gave this some thought over the holiday. You know what? I'm ok giving 5 years. Let's get it done. If you can make that fifth year an option, all the better, but he'll only be 35 at the end of his contract. Or, a year younger than Bautista is now. And give him an opt out after 2 years to keep the guy motivated. He can hit the market again at 33 and look for the type of deal Encarnacion is seeking. Good thing Sandy is at the helm and not me. I can picture the Mets' brass conferring yesterday: Should we do it now Sandy? You said after Thanksgiving. Did I? Let's give it 'til tomorrow. He'll blink first.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2016 07:38 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Deal is done. 4 years $110 million. Pending physical. WHOA!!! I wasn't expecting anything at least until the winter meetings got going and wasn't expecting them to get going unless and until the CBA deets got hammered out!! So this was certainly a nice surprise for an otherwise dull Tuesday afternoon.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 29 2016 07:39 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Bravo, Sandy!

d'Kong76 Nov 29 2016 07:44 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Pending physical. Examine, re-examine, then re-examine the examination and re-examination. Ya know what I'm sayin'?

TransMonk Nov 29 2016 07:45 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Bravo, Sandy! Agreed. I wasn't expecting a deal without going 5 years.

Lefty Specialist Nov 29 2016 07:48 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2016 07:48 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I can't help but think that the Tabloid Cover Derby had something to do with this. The deadline for covers to be considered is December 4. I bet they noticed that the covers from Cespedes' return in January didn't make it out of the first round (because of competition from Mike Piazza). Anyway, this is FANTASTIC news! This is almost as good as if we had traded Donald Trump to Venezuela for a president-elect to be named later. Cespedes' new contract expires after the 2020 season, the same year that David Wright's does. A lot of money will be coming off the books then.

themetfairy Nov 29 2016 07:49 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can't help but think that the Tabloid Cover Derby had something to do with this. The deadline for covers to be considered is December 4. I bet they noticed that the covers from Cespedes' return in January didn't make it out of the first round (because of competition from Mike Piazza). Yo's no dummy!

Centerfield Nov 29 2016 07:51 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can't help but think that the Tabloid Cover Derby had something to do with this. The deadline for covers to be considered is December 4. I bet they noticed that the covers from Cespedes' return in January didn't make it out of the first round (because of competition from Mike Piazza). Anyway, this is FANTASTIC news! This is almost as good as if we had traded Donald Trump to Venezuela for a president-elect to be named later. Cespedes' new contract expires after the 2020 season, the same year that David Wright's does. A lot of money will be coming off the books then. Has a Met ever been signed twice in the same calendar year? Kinda crazy.

Mets Willets Point Nov 29 2016 07:52 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Yay!

metsmarathon Nov 29 2016 07:54 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

damn, that's a lot of fancy cars for driving to spring training!

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2016 07:55 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Has a Met ever been signed twice in the same calendar year? Kinda crazy. I know! It's strange to think that we're not going to have a Cespedes signing next winter to provide off-season jubilation.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2016 08:06 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

How this news was presented on the back pages a mere ten months ago:

Lefty Specialist Nov 29 2016 08:44 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Good job by Sandy not going for the 5th year. Now trade Bruce for something good.

Nymr83 Nov 29 2016 09:16 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

great job by Sandy! now lets upgrade somewhere! anywhere!

Ashie62 Nov 29 2016 09:21 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I hope Ashie1 can see the tears of joy from me over getting Yoyo back.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2016 09:31 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Will be, behind Miguel Cabrera, the second highest-paid position player in baseball (based on AAV of contract). Is he the second best position player in all of baseball? ... No, but that's the way things work. Timing is everything and deservin' ain't got nothin' to do with it.

themetfairy Nov 29 2016 10:07 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2016 10:40 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

The contract is reportedly backloaded: ESPN wrote: Cespedes will receive a full no-trade clause and will make $22.5 million in 2017, $29 million in 2018 and 2019 and $29.5 million in 2020, sources told ESPN's Adam Rubin and Jerry Crasnick.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2016 11:46 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The contract is reportedly backloaded: ESPN wrote: Cespedes will receive a full no-trade clause and will make $22.5 million in 2017, $29 million in 2018 and 2019 and $29.5 million in 2020, sources told ESPN's Adam Rubin and Jerry Crasnick. While Wright's is front-loaded [20M; 20M; 15M; 12M] so the two will more or less balance themselves out over the next four seasons. 2017 Wright + Cespedes = 42.5 M 2018 = 49 M 2019 = 44.5 M 2020 = 41.5 M

Zvon Nov 30 2016 12:09 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Centerfield wrote: Does this mean we don't get Stanton? lol I can't help but think that the Tabloid Cover Derby had something to do with this. The deadline for covers to be considered is December 4. I bet they noticed that the covers from Cespedes' return in January didn't make it out of the first round (because of competition from Mike Piazza). lol Bravo, Sandy! Agreed. I wasn't expecting a deal without going 5 years. Ditto. This is fantastic news :) Centerfield wrote: Has a Met ever been signed twice in the same calendar year? Kinda crazy. I know! It's strange to think that we're not going to have a Cespedes signing next winter to provide off-season jubilation. More like off season agita. I am so glad this was resolved so early. WOOHOO! LGM in 17!!

Elster88 Nov 30 2016 01:00 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'm so happy.

seawolf17 Nov 30 2016 02:09 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Frayed Knot wrote: The contract is reportedly backloaded: ESPN wrote: Cespedes will receive a full no-trade clause and will make $22.5 million in 2017, $29 million in 2018 and 2019 and $29.5 million in 2020, sources told ESPN's Adam Rubin and Jerry Crasnick. While Wright's is front-loaded [20M; 20M; 15M; 12M] so the two will more or less balance themselves out over the next four seasons. 2017 Wright + Cespedes = 42.5 M 2018 = 49 M 2019 = 44.5 M 2020 = 41.5 M That's good, because in the 2017-18 offseason they'll be selling a lot of WORLD CHAMPS shirts.

RealityChuck Nov 30 2016 02:34 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

I hadn't expected this to resolve so soon. But it's great news; the team needs a dependable slugger like Yo if it's going to get a championship.

Fman99 Nov 30 2016 03:36 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Big fan of this deal, and not having to go 5 years to lock him up. Go Sandy!

Zvon Nov 30 2016 05:36 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

Still pumped from the news :) [fimg=400:2orij8t5]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1nKiHQZPImb-kmMH7aY2320iWUj5ReqHwht5kzMo89RLpPQoRmoTsECrdvEsRXUdv6S5A_LVmcaYsaxGkpCFGpsFtLqXaHwhO_7XBDq2Q8W4-LuEEx7h4yDHa5z79pE6CpthKbOCfuNs0gitV1OIxHoIHQQNVxLsOj1vU0eByekPL3folsyJMDd0LSsUFr8JZl8RRPKCpYSjgsiz0YZRBDEuD2p1d4LjrujmSte46tnpCd2l5JusYoSHLjzcqq8Iq6b5VkpCpf5zjRvxnDSLX-RCy7PZL196Jn0EUs1B4D6QrmKRFxW6PxsPbdbSSwDaLalOuQGXfeOE15FoF96ioOTKU79lHfcQ0Uy4gA73cupAAGNbov_WC-ptS7yoshgduaii7aHne8LDdNBh2sijSDWDvcT7RKSqhLvWjsb--8gkgyp56CyIFOXoJDwrVBLEJjjG5mCqxwcFi5JXuoPOUeQ-BvPdLTwARVYNEBNpLOxOGRagZIbxO_BlVnlg_4PdytDokkRyOT-XLbhogE-AmkVI_989QNUTcPDHVOrs_C9wmskz1hxfFTj5V6AZ1AQLOJKjMCk4MOQHAPGLpB3HQcjvZkTkMvmqodzYFPEtGneBk9NGVg=w530-h745-no[/fimg:2orij8t5]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 30 2016 06:20 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

The backloaded contract seems appropriate. If he used it to throw a big, pork-butt-loaded feast, all the more so. If he threw some of it at a customized dump truck with extra junk in its trunk for the first day of ST, it would almost be too on the nose. What I'm trying to say is, DAT BOI GOT ASS

Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2016 02:06 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Glad this got done at a reasonable rate and early enough that Sandy can dangle Jay Bruce for the best deal. If those pitchers are healthy, this team will make noise.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2016 03:14 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Lefty Specialist wrote: Glad this got done at a reasonable rate and early enough that Sandy can dangle Jay Bruce for the best deal. If those pitchers are healthy, this team will make noise. It should. But, geez. Is anyone a little worried that this could be the same offense that went out there with pop-guns last year? I know, losing your 3 and 5 hitters to season-long injuries was bad but I have to confess to being a little worried that Walker and Cabrera won't have exact replicas and dArnaud and Lagares will.

metirish Nov 30 2016 03:19 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I am thrilled to have him back, Mets wanted him and he wanted to stay ....I do share Buekts concerns

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2016 03:22 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Oh, I think there's definitely an argument to be made for the pessimistic viewpoint. Conforto and d'Arnaud will bounce back. Or they won't. Walker and Cabrera will be approximately as productive as they were last year. Or they won't. Reyes and/or Flores will be able to cover for all of the games that Wright will likely miss. Or they won't. Wheeler may not pitch at all. Or he may suck. Harvey may be compromised. Matz may frustrate us with his frequent injuries again. How will Duda's back hold up? Bringing back Cespedes doesn't make them a sure thing for a post-season spot, but it does make it a lot more likely, so even if you're of a pessimistic bent, this has to be happy news.

Ceetar Nov 30 2016 04:00 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

still plenty of concerns, surely, and it does come down to health a lot. (fantasy advice, take d'Arnaud as a late draft pickup) But Cespedes is an All-Star bat and that keeps the depth chart high. Sure, we'll probably lose an outfielder in trade, but it'll likely bring back something that will help too. Flores and Reyes as the bench infield bats is actually crazy above average I would think. Plus any potential prospects that can help are now a little closer. I still think Duda is the lynchpin, and was last year. He plays 130, the Mets are fine.

Centerfield Nov 30 2016 06:54 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: Glad this got done at a reasonable rate and early enough that Sandy can dangle Jay Bruce for the best deal. If those pitchers are healthy, this team will make noise. It should. But, geez. Is anyone a little worried that this could be the same offense that went out there with pop-guns last year? I know, losing your 3 and 5 hitters to season-long injuries was bad but I have to confess to being a little worried that Walker and Cabrera won't have exact replicas and dArnaud and Lagares will. I think one can be happy about the Cespedes signing but still be worried about this offense. At least, I hope so, because that's where I am. Re-signing Ces may be risky, but not nearly as risky as not having him. If he had left, a terrible offense would have taken a step back. At least now, the hope is that you stay the same or move forward. As constructed, I like how much power they have even as you get toward the bottom of the lineup. Bruce, Conforto, Granderson, Duda can all give you pop even if you get through Cespedes. But the needs at the top are still glaring. There is no real leadoff hitter except Reyes, and I have concerns that he can replicate what he did last year over a full season. And the real issue is that there is no 3 hole hitter. You can slot in Walker, but he's not really good enough to hit in that position. And only Conforto looks to have a chance to develop into that type of hitter. Maybe Dom Smith if he's ready. But those are far from sure things, and may not even be likely.

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2016 06:57 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Mets, btw, officially acknowledge the deal today (guess the physical went OK) presser at 5 PM.

Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2016 08:30 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

I'm sure they're not done. At the minimum you have to trade at least one of Bruce/Granderson, so hopefully there's a useful piece coming back. I'm not sold on the offense, but with 3/5ths of the rotation going down and the injuries they had on offense last year, they still snagged a wild card spot. I'm hoping Sandy will get creative here. I think a full year of Reyes will be helpful. I expect nothing at all from David Wright, sadly.

MFS62 Nov 30 2016 10:51 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Late to the thread; couldn't use a computer yesterday (eye surgery). But you might have heard my screams of joy when my wife told me the news. Later

Ceetar Dec 01 2016 03:14 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

[video:3655ko9s]https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CyeC2jpXAAA-yiw.mp4[/video:3655ko9s]

Edgy MD Dec 01 2016 02:29 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

Edgy MD wrote: Rockin' Doc wrote: ... but I'm not sure I want him back if it is going to take 5 years at $100-110 mil. I'm thinking we're looking at a price north of that. Turned you he had the price right, at $110 million, but we only get four years for that.

Zvon Dec 01 2016 06:24 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

[fimg=200:2cc6agvb]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fDeqTxdESstgC8SUNdyc7S1Z6UUo_kaw_k8b-prqFDR9GaIYerjwYfaLtmA6VhQI10bSLfFWOVzHsL0HAkhQogqWw9wcBj39I76NaL8O9nQ7Q1J6rMfW4swXx2SVAYHxwUtKU_3ZjJ1fswmLB23N2nPn-6be3W-3uI_AENJJtM5h1DN84osQsL-qPwfUGMoqjYdalpWssnQPueFwMv1bBryjfi4iTKKJrJQ7azK6aP_RZc41tAs34_lEop0HQo5qcb1eziMou316vVd0UFjlrROksJtgx8lNRRHQQClPJjsNRSKDkkSKDVlu7lmDc3TzUJjS0PFS0bJASLp0ex3yOhs1CTaHA865qTuAr9nu4yGMRV9Mo8AhD7MoH5I7w0ZxAOt37-9omKb6eqAtrAXjKXm9hAktP3Tk_57FS7H6O-QbutIEeqc-mYk9KkD_IvxTJ7j0cV6tBIkGH5-9LK6-vm8rvwBoFrbjPIp8ZwBjiYL62Q4Uigu8vXYzU4VZbnYIokyL4zP8TUhWcrySxjBuKuk9SvvlkqaMjDdQcMce71P-qKU-XuMvfIH51rxvIhSEcNgbW9EAz8gBLHDA1deoIw_Lq682Ms_BzwBOXJAdlgGZBxaOUw=w530-h745-no[/fimg:2cc6agvb] Re-worked Topps 2017 border design to more suit my needs. Which is to say I unscrunched the logo and added a border, dropping the "slant" look. As of now, the 2017 mfc card design (subject to change). [fimg=400:2cc6agvb]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jxl7XJAgJhjiRSqfIKfBc65S8RwuPIJtRPjb8glBPC2s5uH-gO9u4MiQoRgUOJJvMUnSAkhfUDyfNQVct7QuXOYGRcCYpmhMNRbTRtVfBsn83wBpx2qkBQ7SGwHUxOZXfGf7u3F4wdipgT5AyTL7HRAyDQ7UHxSifej0BNqTGPb6Spd8l2S_fP5uFyRSM4l7sqJgUCdn9AkLxpXh6EJBK8NHae63o9sKUtMJJ0sJ4EutYIXVaFWbeMgxc4UEtlI9NHaOoycxbtxGI7UraHuhElluDMBN-SpI6yDpWHYYZ-a-qIR7tUdRKdg056a_ebCKupcoyZ90YbW24opDLS0tmau61cFv4iPBZ45S2LI43DkUGT6LTYdlDSIx79CFOyu7ok1PJuEceMoh37RHh2MDiAokmGa4-Q-f5kCiDAWHvbtS0lgaqVTNs8SKsv0nPn27n45ynhhL0XwZqzINXx5hxEJdXPV9_1jt0YNlGa1sBLwL5ngIrPkDA78mSHW2Z2497ClvGYPWF9A3AVauYkU0moTjWAsQ-qi_p5uQPDi8nKsxvpiB89qwHuW0gVorRytViJlNq93_1HJwHN76xcQhMzZ_-TFSkiWv8tBGi6NPcMQuvOdTNg=w530-h745-no[/fimg:2cc6agvb]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2016 08:07 AM Re: Bring Back Ces

So, presumably, all road parties are in Ces' room?

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2016 12:47 PM Re: Bring Back Ces

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So, presumably, all road parties are in Ces' room? In Ces's room there are pictures of his autos on the walls To pay for Ces's room you need an agent to match Saul Katz's big balls Players from the team gather in his suite to make some noise But to hang in Ces's suite you've got to be one of Ces's boyzzz ...