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If we bring back Bartolo ...

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 07 2016 01:58 PM

... What do we ask him to do? We have, in theory, five starters. We have two young and kind of proven young starters in Lugo and Gsellman. We know there will be the inevitable injuries, but do we stash Bart in the pen until one breaks down? Do we start Bart in the rotation and start Wheeler in the pen to ease him back? Do we trade some pitching to fill one of the other needs, keeping Bartolo for the rotation? Can we expect him to be decent again at 44?

seawolf17 Nov 07 2016 02:04 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I think it's too early to tell -- particularly with the question mark that is Wheeler -- but I'd love to have him as an option. He led the NL in BB/9 this year among all qualified starters; he can definitely still bring SOMETHING to the table.

Frayed Knot Nov 07 2016 02:09 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I think a big snag is that Bartolo wants to start and that potentially reaching the most wins mark for Latin pitchers is important to him (he sits 12 behind Dennis Martinez and 10 behind Marichal's mark for Dominicans). With that in mind, there are probably a bunch of teams that could offer him a higher assurance of a permanent rotation spot.

smg58 Nov 07 2016 02:22 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

He re-upped with us this past season, at a time when it looked like he was just keeping a seat warm for Wheeler. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we have trouble finding innings for him this time around. Lugo and Gsellman might limit what I'd be willing to pay to bring him back, but they shouldn't be deal-breakers from either side's perspective.

cooby Nov 07 2016 02:32 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I like him. Let's keep him around. He has more than earned a spot in a tattered rotation

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 02:35 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Lugo and Gsellman's success last year certainly change the equation, as does Colón being a year older. But Wheeler's status isn't that different from where it was at the start year. Yeah, the target is probably closer than mid-season, but the likelihood of him coming back with enough to get a lock on a rotation spot is probably lower. And Harvey has to learn how to pitch with one fewer rib. So there's an argument for Colón, certainly, if not quite the same one as last year.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 07 2016 02:36 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett.

Edgy MD Nov 07 2016 02:38 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett. ... and perhaps Sean Gilmartin.

TransMonk Nov 07 2016 02:39 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I think Wheeler, Harvey and Matz are ALL major question marks as to how much they can give in early (if not all of) 2017. It seems to me that we could always find a spot for Colon.

Frayed Knot Nov 07 2016 02:51 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

All I'm saying is that, as a FA, Bart has a say in this and it's not going to be easy to look at him with a straight face and tell him how many starts he's likely to get. At least last year there was an implied half-season's worth which unexpectedly turned into a full season. Going into 2017 though, if all of Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Colon, Wheeler, and Gsellman are healthy at the end of ST then two of them are going to be without a chair when the music stops and from his point of view it'll be tough to sign on thinking you could be the odd man out and from the team's side it'll tough to pay somewhere in the $10-$15 mil range for a middle reliever/spot starter.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 04:06 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Bart really makes you decide between the head and heart. As a baseball decision, it really doesn't make much sense. You have seven young, controllable pitchers that are expected to be healthy next spring. Even if two falter, you have a complete rotation. And the offense is in so much need of upgrading, and the bullpen could use a few arms, it almost seems silly to waste any money on the rotation. But hell, I just can't imagine the thought of not having him around. He's just so much fun.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 07 2016 05:19 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Yeah, Colon is another guy that Mets can/should get only if he comes on ther terms. As noted, lots of internal options, and also, veteran hurlers who can be 5th starters/caddies are in goodly supply generally even if not at Colon's level of quality or fun.

Vic Sage Nov 07 2016 05:41 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I think it IS good baseball sense to bring him back. He's either a reliable back of the rotation starter (on a roster stuffed with health issues), or at worst, a spot-starter/long-man/middle-inning guy i'd trust more than Robles, Goeddel, Henderson, Verrett, Gilmartin or any other suspects they currently have. The only decision to be made is about $$. But that's not a baseball decision, that's a decision about expenses. The real baseball decision is for Bartolo, who wants to be in a starting rotation so he can get those wins. If he is offered the exact same money from the Mets and some other team, it would be HIS option to choose heart over head, to choose staying with guys and a team in a city where he's a folk hero, or to leave as a mercenary to fill out his resume.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 07 2016 06:29 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Lugo and Gsellman are hardly "proven", and don't possess overpowering heat. Let's see what they can do the second time around the league. I'm a bit skeptical.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 07:30 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Vic Sage wrote: I think it IS good baseball sense to bring him back. He's either a reliable back of the rotation starter (on a roster stuffed with health issues), or at worst, a spot-starter/long-man/middle-inning guy i'd trust more than Robles, Goeddel, Henderson, Verrett, Gilmartin or any other suspects they currently have. The only decision to be made is about $$. But that's not a baseball decision, that's a decision about expenses. The real baseball decision is for Bartolo, who wants to be in a starting rotation so he can get those wins. If he is offered the exact same money from the Mets and some other team, it would be HIS option to choose heart over head, to choose staying with guys and a team in a city where he's a folk hero, or to leave as a mercenary to fill out his resume. Yeah, that's true. It makes good baseball sense to bring him back. The question is whether it makes financial sense, given the other needs and the limited resources (we assume). Another baseball reason is that it's been widely reported that other pitchers learn from Bartolo. So that's something.

Fman99 Nov 07 2016 07:33 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Edgy MD wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: And as much as we love Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo right now, I think we may have had similar feelings this time last year about Logan Verrett. ... and perhaps Sean Gilmartin. I don't think either of those two had the kind of sustained success as starters that Lugo and Gazelle-man did this past year. But I still want Big Sexy back. Every non-Thor starter from the spring training rotation had some kind of health issue in various states of resolution when the season ended (aside from Barto). Lots of question marks there.

RealityChuck Nov 07 2016 08:24 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Look, if the other pitchers come through, you can always trade Colon to an AL contender.

seawolf17 Nov 07 2016 08:27 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

RealityChuck wrote: Look, if the other pitchers come through, you can always trade Colon to an AL contender. Of course! They could use him as a DH on his off days. Good thought.

Lefty Specialist Nov 07 2016 08:57 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: ... What do we ask him to do? Be Jeff Wilpon's food taster? Bartolo gave the Mets a solid (actually more than solid) season in 2016. You'd be signing him to do in 2017 what he should have done in 2016, except that the injuries of other players intervened. Ride the horse til it drops.

Ashie62 Nov 07 2016 09:28 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

We need Bart. You just know he will be our number 2 at some point. Out of Harvey deGrom and Matz I would be happy if one came back and ecstatic if we 2 or 3 made it back. Wheeler? I hope he saved his money.

Centerfield Nov 07 2016 10:52 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

That's the other thing. Wheeler was no ace even before he got hurt.

TransMonk Nov 07 2016 11:21 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Centerfield wrote: That's the other thing. Wheeler was no ace even before he got hurt. Well, wait, wait, wait. I'm not claiming that Wheeler will come back at or near what he was...but what he was was more than enough to positively contribute to a rotation that has a healthy Thor, Harvey and de Grom. Ace? No, but he put up the numbers that most #4s strive for before he got hurt. And he throws heat.

Vic Sage Nov 07 2016 11:23 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

well, Wheeler isn't going to counted on to be an ace. He'll be asked to hold down the #5 spot in the rotation. His stuff clearly makes this a job well within his reach. If he surpasses those expectations, then great. If he can't, then hopefully Big Sexy is there to step into the breach once more

Rockin' Doc Nov 11 2016 05:02 AM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I have too little faith in a successful return by Wheeler and I fear that Matz's persistent injuries will continue to have him in and out of the rotation, so I see Colon as a solid 5th starter. If miraculously, all of our young starters return to pitch well and remain healthy, then Colon can work out of the bullpen. IN a best case scenario, all of the pitchers (including Colon) return and pitch effectively, then one of the younger arms (not DeGrom or Syndergaard) can be used traded to fill other needs on the team.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 11 2016 05:58 AM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

He's our sixth starter, then, obviously. Any team that's serious about winning needs, like, 7 or 8.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2016 01:22 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

But then back to my earlier question: Does Colon, wanting his starts and wanting to tally as many 'W's as possible before his clock inevitably strikes midnight (at least we think it's inevitable), sign with a club whose hopeful intention is to NOT use him as a regular starter? I think he'd like to return here, but he also has to balance that against any offers floated his way that essentially assure him of getting the ball every fifth day for as long as he proves worthy. The one thing we know, barring some off-season diagnosis of sleeping sickness with any one of the younger quintet (it's the lone condition none of the five have contracted yet), is that he's not getting that guarantee in Queens.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2016 01:33 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Yeah, I agree. I think Colon is more likely to leave than to stay.

Centerfield Nov 11 2016 02:40 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I realize that if Zack Wheeler is healthy, you start him over Bartolo Colon. The money, the upside, and the age make it a no-brainer. But I'm not sure that for 2017 Zack Wheeler is better than Bartolo. Bartolo just went 15-8 with a 3.43 ERA. His WHIP was 1.21. In his prior Met years, his ERA was higher (3.90 as a Met overall) but his WHIP was pretty consistent. (1.21, 1.24, 1.23). Zack Wheeler has a good career ERA of 3.50, but his WHIP has been 1.36, and 1.33. In his last full season, he walked 79 batters in 32 starts, 185 innings. Colon, by comparison, walked 32 batters, in 191 innings over 34 starts. And this was before Wheeler got hurt. Now this is not to say you should sign Colon, or that he's likely to come back. Just that when you assess this situation, Bartolo might actually be better than Wheeler. Maybe.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 11 2016 03:15 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

My cell phone [via Jon Heyman via twitter] sez that Bart has agreed terms with another team. Edit: someone wanna learn me how the 'tweet' button works with creating/editing a post here? Edit Edit: Bart to the Braves.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2016 03:45 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Oh well. I figured he was likely gone. He turned out to be an essential part of the Mets in 2016. I hope we don't end up needing him nearly as much next season as we did this season.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2016 04:05 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Who knew that Atlanta would wind up as the stopping off point for aging ex-NYM pitchers? Probably because it's on the way to south Florida where all the rest of aging New Yorkers end up.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 11 2016 04:06 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Interesting. We should get back at them by signing a Braves legend like Tom Glavine!

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2016 04:18 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Or Matt Wisler!

Centerfield Nov 11 2016 04:26 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Well this sucks. I get that this makes sense. $12 million is better spent on other areas. But man I will miss the big guy. My son will bummed. This week needs to be over.

cooby Nov 11 2016 04:28 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

sheet

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2016 04:34 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Do you suppose the Braves are worried that he'll take their big contract and come into camp out of shape?

RealityChuck Nov 11 2016 04:53 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Frayed Knot wrote: Do you suppose the Braves are worried that he'll take their big contract and come into camp out of shape? How could they tell?

themetfairy Nov 11 2016 06:07 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Little Sexy weeps

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2016 06:10 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Poor Little Sexy.

Lefty Specialist Nov 11 2016 06:22 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Centerfield wrote: Well this sucks. I get that this makes sense. $12 million is better spent on other areas. But man I will miss the big guy. My son will bummed. This week needs to be over. This. He was a good soldier but not worth $12.5 mil. Always entertaining, and he'll be missed. But he has to fall off a cliff sooner or later and I'd rather part ways too early than too late.

Zvon Nov 11 2016 07:47 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Well, this shocked the shit outta me. I felt that if he did stay he would have to be in the rotation at seasons start as other options shake out or work themselves in. If Sandy couldn't promise him that maybe we are in better shape than I thought going into 2017. I wish him all the best and would like to see him pass Marichal. He needs 10 wins to reach 233. Damn, I really hoped to see him do that as a Met.

RealityChuck Nov 11 2016 08:23 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I think it was simple. He wanted ten wins. He was not likely to start regularly for the Mets, who have six young pitchers ready to go, so he went with a team that could promise him he'll be pitching every five days.

Centerfield Nov 11 2016 09:11 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

RealityChuck wrote: I think it was simple. He wanted ten wins. He was not likely to start regularly for the Mets, who have six young pitchers ready to go, so he went with a team that could promise him he'll be pitching every five days. Plus they can score a bit. Second half Braves were 6th in all of MLB in runs scored.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2016 09:29 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Do you suppose the Braves are worried that he'll take their big contract and come into camp out of shape? How could they tell? As the classic fat man's joke goes: 'Whattya mean I'm out of shape ... round is a shape!'

seawolf17 Nov 11 2016 09:49 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Lefty Specialist wrote: Centerfield wrote: Well this sucks. I get that this makes sense. $12 million is better spent on other areas. But man I will miss the big guy. My son will bummed. This week needs to be over. This. He was a good soldier but not worth $12.5 mil. Always entertaining, and he'll be missed. But he has to fall off a cliff sooner or later and I'd rather part ways too early than too late. Agree. We need to spend that $12.5M elsewhere. But seriously, an all-time favorite Met for me.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 11 2016 10:34 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Lugo and Gsellman are hardly "proven", and don't possess overpowering heat. Let's see what they can do the second time around the league. I'm a bit skeptical. Who needs him? He's due to break down big time. Plus, we got Lugo and Gsellman.

Zvon Nov 11 2016 11:59 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

If he wasn't willing to be a safety net from the get-go in 2017 I'm actually glad that he will continue to start somewhere. Colon broke down years ago, when he went from 98mph heat to 81mph finesse. I think Bart can pitch like he does now for as long as he pitches. I really think we could have used him in a number of ways, primarily such a simple thing: his presence. And there's his experience and his example. Our young guns may have learned how to hurl heat coming up, but if they payed any attention at all to Bartolo Colon, they learned how to pitch (I hope). We may not need him now but he was so needed during his time here. I also like the 12 mill now available, so.... I'm over it.

Rockin' Doc Nov 12 2016 03:43 AM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I will miss him., but I understand that it is probably better to invest the money it would have taken to keep him to fill other needs on the team.

Frayed Knot Nov 12 2016 07:57 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

I didn't realize that Bartolo made "only" $7.25 mil last year (for some reason I was thinking his 2016 salary was somewhat north of $10) so this move not only represents the better chance to pitch, start, and go for the Wins he's after, but he's also getting better than a 70% raise for his troubles. Nice work if you can get it, but also even less of a reason to keep him around for reliever, mop-up, and emergency starter chores. Another thought concerning Bartolo occurred to me the other day, one which briefly sent me dashing to BB-Ref for an answer. I was thinking that maybe his first home game next season could be the third Atlanta ballpark he's pitched in but, alas, it turns out that his ML rookie season was in [u:1p9d5n45]1997[/u:1p9d5n45] thus making him one year too late (and in the wrong league) for games at the old Fulton County Stadium.

Zvon Nov 12 2016 09:13 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Maybe he can solve the logo problem. Work of graphic logo designer Todd Radom. He's not like me. He's a real logo designer. And this is brilliant: [fimg=400]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_lW4fXUAAY1lG.jpg[/fimg]

Frayed Knot Nov 12 2016 09:55 PM Re: If we bring back Bartolo ...

Zvon wrote: [fimg=250]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_lW4fXUAAY1lG.jpg[/fimg] Ah yes, I was going to ask if anyone else had seen that one. Brilliant!!