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Puckett in Ariz hospital after suffering stroke

Frayed Knot Mar 05 2006 02:11 PM

Not many details as of yet.

metirish Mar 05 2006 02:14 PM

Yeah I just saw the scroll on ESPN, he's having surgery.

TheOldMole Mar 05 2006 04:07 PM

Prayers for Kirby.

Zvon Mar 05 2006 04:45 PM

TheOldMole wrote: Prayers for Kirby. just saw this.Bummer. Yea, ditto.

Zvon Mar 05 2006 04:46 PM

Yancy Street Gang Mar 05 2006 06:24 PM

44 years old. Yikes.

MFS62 Mar 06 2006 07:25 AM

Heard this morning that he is in critical condition. Later

PatchyFogg Mar 06 2006 07:22 PM

I hope he gets better, if only just to use the "He'll be up groping nurses in no time" line.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 06 2006 08:13 PM

I just heard he died.

ScarletKnight41 Mar 06 2006 08:19 PM

ESPN.com confirms Bret's sad news - ]Puckett Dies Following Stroke Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett died Monday, a day after suffering a stroke at his Arizona home, a hospital spokeswoman said. The 44-year-old Puckett, who led the Twins to two World Series titles before his career was cut short by glaucoma, was stricken Sunday morning at his Arizona home. RIP Kirby

seawolf17 Mar 06 2006 08:31 PM

Wow, that sucks. Tough situation, Kirby. Kinda of a borderline Hall of Famer, but a beloved legend in Minnesota. Then came the glaucoma or whatever it was, followed by some sort of sexual misconduct allegations of some kind, IIRC. A very bizarre, star-crossed 44 years. Wish he could have gotten more out of life.

metirish Mar 06 2006 08:48 PM

RIP - sad news.

Nymr83 Mar 06 2006 09:05 PM

RIP. not sure if this thread is an "appropriate" place for a HOF discussion but i'd like to revisit that elsewhere if anyone cares...

cooby Mar 06 2006 09:09 PM

Very sad.

Edgy DC Mar 06 2006 09:13 PM

Terrible. Peeps have strokes all the time. Must've been some sort of massive brainstorm to lead to emergency surgery and then kill a 44-year-old athete. I wonder if it was related to his career-ending injury.

Zvon Mar 06 2006 10:12 PM

:(

metirish Mar 06 2006 10:17 PM

Kirby had gotten huge in his post playing days, sad really, I suppose that might have been part of the problem.

Frayed Knot Mar 06 2006 10:27 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 06 2006 10:43 PM

Glaucoma & obesity are never good things when trying to avoid strokes and live long. RiP to an outwardly happy guy whose smile may have been hiding a few demons; and to a seemingly blessed life that was thrown a couple of nasty curves later on. Weird that he may have been the youngest living HoFer. Off the top of my head Rizzuto may be the oldest. I do know that Feller is the longest serving.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 06 2006 10:38 PM

His home run in Game 6 of the 1991 series was one of the most unforgettable moments I've ever seen in baseball. Who couldn't love the guy after that. "And we will see you, tomorrow night!"

Edgy DC Mar 06 2006 10:56 PM

Yeah, I suddenly recalled the weight he had put on, but the forum disappeared before I could edit my comments. What made that Game Six extra-kewl is that he had predicted he'd be the difference in that game. He also made a huge catch at the track earlier.

rpackrat Mar 06 2006 11:01 PM

Very, very sad. I read that he was near 300 lbs on his 5'8" frame. That's a big guy. Boy, he was fun to watch as a player.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 07 2006 09:20 AM

If there was an Ultimate Twins Database, he'd be getting a ton of hits today. Reading what Twins fans thought of him, it occurred to me that they loved him for many of the same reasons that we love Mookie Wilson. He's their Mookie. Or, to give the Hall of Famer his due, Mookie was our Kirby Puckett. They even both had cute names.

cooby Mar 07 2006 09:22 AM

There was a kid named Kirby in my sixth grade Sunday School class once, and though he wasn't at all a wimp, I could tell he was sensitive about that name. Kirby Puckett gave the name Kirby respect!!

Edgy DC Mar 07 2006 10:06 AM

Not for nothing, but it seems that traits like an "ever-present smile and infectious exuberance" (from Kirby Puckett's Hall of Fame plaque) are the sort that are treated as much more noteable for a black player --- Kirby Puckett, Mookie Wilson, Ernie Banks, maybe Roy Campanella. Roger McDowell's goofiness and giddiness made him notable, but he wasn't widely called "a great ambassador for the game" (although all those appearances at the MTV Softball Classic suggest he maybe was). Gary Carter's affability got him widely labelled a "phony." I only mention it because (a) the white folks who largely run baseball and largely support baseball perhaps more need black players who are sweet and fun and happy rather than surly and threatening and (b) maybe it's a tough row to hoe --- to project joy and enthusasm on days when maybe you're not feeling it, and run the risk of being labelled a Tom in private conversation among your fellow black players.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 07 2006 10:16 AM

Interesting point. I guess it's possible that white people prefer blacks to be smiling and non-threatening. Of course, we prefer everyone to be non-threatening, but that inherent racism indicates that blacks pose a greater threat. I'd hate to think I'm a racist for liking Mookie Wilson. Tug McGraw was a white guy who had the same kind of charm, I think. On the flip side, I was following UMDB referrer links the other day, and found a ESPN forum linking to Kevin Mitchell's page. The question posed was, more or less, who would you be more afraid of encountering in a dark alley, Kevin Mitchell or Lastings Milledge? Mitchell's earned his scary rep, but the comparison to Milledge can only be racism. Maybe the Mets can hire Mookie as a smiling coach to teach Lastings to be non-threatening.

Edgy DC Mar 07 2006 10:26 AM

I'd be more afraid of Milledge if I was 14-year-old girl. I'd be more afraid of Mitchell if I was a kitten. Seriously, I don't mean to accuse anyone of being a racist, though I suggest a double-standard exists, it's probably not meant hatefully (or even realized) in most circles. While a double standard suggests the presence of racism, it wouldn't be of the active unreconstructed hateful sort that should get someone (or everyone) tagged a racist.

soupcan Mar 07 2006 10:32 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Not for nothing, but it seems that traits like an "ever-present smile and infectious exuberance" (from Kirby Puckett's Hall of Fame plaque) are the sort that are treated as much more noteable for a black player --- Kirby Puckett, Mookie Wilson, Ernie Banks, maybe Roy Campanella. Roger McDowell's goofiness and giddiness made him notable, but he wasn't widely called "a great ambassador for the game" (although all those appearances at the MTV Softball Classic suggest he maybe was). Gary Carter's affability got him widely labelled a "phony." I only mention it because (a) the white folks who largely run baseball and largely support baseball perhaps more need black players who are sweet and fun and happy rather than surly and threatening and (b) maybe it's a tough row to hoe --- to project joy and enthusasm on days when maybe you're not feeling it, and run the risk of being labelled a Tom in private conversation among your fellow black players. Perhaps because it is the minority that faces so much adversity that he/she is given a tacit approval to be surly that when we become familiar with a person of color who seems to be able to shed the weight of that burden and just 'be happy' no matter what the circumstance, that person stands out. So on the flip side of Roger McDowell and Gary Carter you have guys like Eddie Murray or Albert Belle who, while 'surly' were never compared in terms of personality to a guy like Ty Cobb. Why? Because it is more 'acceptable' for the black player to be surly? And just to further muddy the argument, Bill 'Spaceman' Lee, Yogi Berra and Turk Wendall are three white guys who are labled as goofy, affable, happy-go-lucky. ="Yancy Street Gang"]The question posed was, more or less, who would you be more afraid of encountering in a dark alley, Kevin Mitchell or Lastings Milledge? Mitchell's earned his scary rep, but the comparison to Milledge can only be racism. Maybe the Mets can hire Mookie as a smiling coach to teach Lastings to be non-threatening. I agree this is ludicrous as Mitchell was a gang member but let's not forget that our friend Lastings did have some sexual assualt charges levied against him. Girlfriend or no, his actions were illiegal enough for teams to take pause before drafting a 'can't-miss' prospect.

Edgy DC Mar 07 2006 11:03 AM

Whatever was winning about Yogi Berra's personality, the Hall of Fame didn't find it necessary to put it on his Hall of Fame plaque. Comments about Puckett that speak more to fuzzy abstractions such as personality, character, and style rather than concrete established accomplishments: "...proven team leader..." "...an ever-present smile..." "...infectious exuberance..." "...led the Twins..." "...elegance..." "...style..." "...routinely scaling outfield walls..." Comments about Berra that speak more to fuzzy abstractions such as personality, character, and style rather than concrete established accomplishments. ... Now, they may also be attributed in part to (1) the narrower font allowing for more editorializing on latter-day plaques and (2) Berra's longer and more accomplished career providing more than enough fodder to fill his plaque, but I still find it noteworthy. Also, I could be wrong, but I think Barry Bonds has gotten way more crap for being cool and detached than Ted Williams ever did.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 07 2006 11:19 AM

No doubt, but Ted and Barry are separated by about four decades. For a more recent example, how about Kevin McReynolds? He did get heat for his aloofness, but did his pale skin color yield him any slack?

soupcan Mar 07 2006 11:23 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: No doubt, but Ted and Barry are separated by about four decades As were Kirby and Yogi. It's obviously not black and white (couldn't resist). It's an interesting debate.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 07 2006 11:25 AM

I'm not sure the crap is any worse for Barry than Ted, there's just so much more of it. Ted was killed almost every day of his career by the Boston press, with only a sliver of it ever necessary.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 07 2006 11:34 AM

Gotta mention "Smilin' Stanley Hack" here. from Wikipedia:Stanley Camfield Hack (December 6, 1909 - December 15, 1979) was an American third baseman in Major League Baseball who played his entire career for the Chicago Cubs from 1932 through 1947. Hack batted left-handed and threw right-handed. A native of Sacramento, California, he was nicknamed "Smilin' Stan" for his good-natured demeanor. In a 16-season career, Hack posted a .301 average with 57 home runs and 642 RBI in 1938 games, as he made the National League All-Star team five times. Hack died at age 70 in Dixon, Illinois.

Edgy DC Mar 07 2006 12:25 PM

]Ted was killed almost every day of his career by the Boston press, with only a sliver of it ever necessary. Yeah, no doubt. And the fact that it wasn't as much the bottom line for him historically as it seems to be for Bonds may well be a byproduct of the nationalization of sports media as it anything to do with complexion. My position is more that genial black guys are quicker to be lionized more than that surly black guys are quicker to be demonized. It would be nice if I could establish the latter to support the former, but clearly I can't.

Nymr83 Mar 07 2006 01:43 PM

] Berra's longer and more accomplished career providing more than enough fodder to fill his plaque I think that is completely the distinction. Berra is someone who belonged in the Hall beyond a shadow of a doubt and his plaque can easily be filled with his accomplishments, the same cannot be said of Puckett.

Elster88 Mar 07 2006 01:44 PM

A big topic of discussion today by at least one radio host (not sure who on ESPN) is that he can't get past the fact that someone abused animals and women. He also feels there is no statue of limitations on how long you have to wait after someone dies before bashing them. I'm just reporting, not taking a stance myself.

SwitchHitter Mar 07 2006 02:19 PM

He was on our station before the Mets game, too.

Nymr83 Mar 07 2006 02:48 PM

Elster88 wrote: A big topic of discussion today by at least one radio host (not sure who on ESPN) is that he can't get past the fact that someone abused animals and women. He also feels there is no statue of limitations on how long you have to wait after someone dies before bashing them. I'm just reporting, not taking a stance myself. Its hard to get past the wife-beating thing, I'd probably bash him more about it if i were old enough to clearly remember the details from back then, which i'm not. as far as a SOL on bashing the dead i think it all depends what you are saying and why. I guess what i'm saying is that i don't think you should bring up minor character faults (gambling, drugs, steroids) the day after a guy passes away, but things like beating your wife and killing people (Ray Lewis anyone?) are far more serious and shouldn't be ignored just because the guy is dead.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 07 2006 03:10 PM

The only valid reason to treat someone differently when they're dead is to avoid hurting the feelings of people who are mourning his loss. "Oh, your brother just died? Well, he was a jerk anyway. He died owing me five bucks! How about YOU pay me the five and we'll call it even?" That wouldn't be cool. But unless you're talking to a friend or relative of Kirby Puckett there's no reason to hold your tongue. Saying "I'm glad he's dead" or anything like that would be uncalled for, but if you're discussing his career, or his conduct, whatever you would have said last week can still be said this week. The reluctance to "speak ill of the dead" is, I believe, grounded in superstition. You don't want the ghost of Kirby Puckett following you into restrooms, for example. But if you don't believe in ghosts it shouldn't be a concern.

DocTee Mar 07 2006 04:16 PM

Gary Sheffield had an interesting take on this a while back, comparing Eric Davis ("injury prone'") to Lenny Dykstra ("nails") . He felt that black athletes were routinely and wrongly held to higher societal standards. IIRC he also spoke about how white athletes who got in teammates faces (Kent) were applauded for leadership while minoroities who did the same (Mondesi) were portrayed as selfish or upstaging their counterparts.

soupcan Mar 07 2006 04:20 PM

I don't really pay much attention when Sheffield opens his mouth.

seawolf17 Mar 07 2006 04:21 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]You don't want the ghost of Kirby Puckett following you into restrooms, for example. But if you don't believe in ghosts it shouldn't be a concern. Funny that you should mention that; the ghost of Don Knotts stopped by my office this morning, thanking me for remembering his groundbreaking work work on "Scooby Doo."

Rotblatt Mar 07 2006 04:21 PM

When was Kent ever applauded?

soupcan Mar 07 2006 04:25 PM

Rotblatt wrote: When was Kent ever applauded? Exactly.

rpackrat Mar 07 2006 04:28 PM

]Berra is someone who belonged in the Hall beyond a shadow of a doubt and his plaque can easily be filled with his accomplishments, the same cannot be said of Puckett. Very much the same thing can be said about Puckett. While Kirby's career was shorter (12 full seasons compared to Berra's 14 full and 5 partial seasons, including his fade-out years of 1962-64), they were very similar hitters (125 OPS+ for Yogi, 124 for Puckett). Puckett had better speed and won 2 MVPs, 6 GGs and a batting title to Yogi's 3 MVPs, 0 GGs and 0 batting titles.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 07 2006 04:29 PM

I think that there are too many people in the Hall of Fame, and there are a bunch that I'd like to remove. I don't think Kirby Puckett would be one of them, though.

Frayed Knot Mar 07 2006 04:43 PM

I think Puckett was a borderline H-o-Fer and was quite possibly was put over the top by his "winning personality" and also the "tragic" way his career ended prematurely. We'll never know, but I suspect if the sordid stories of his off-field life had come to light a year or so before they did (ie; before his induction) it may have been enough to swing the vote against him. When Kirby's name is brought up the argument always blooms from Yanqui fans (it's probably doing so all over talk radio today) about 'Why not Mattingly?'. The lifetime stats of the two are very similar but there are some differences: * Puckett's two WS wins. It's not Mattingly's fault that he never got there but it is to Kirby's advantage that he did and he SHINED while he was on that stage * Despite the similar overall stats, Puckett put up his in about a dozen real good seasons while Donny-boy had 5 or 6 great ones followed by 5 or 6 mediocrities. Advantage Puckett * and the biggest one MFY fans want to ignore: when you've got similar offensive stats from a GG 1Bman (9 times I believe) and a GG CFer (6 times); give a BIG edge to the CFer. Mattingly was a very good 1st baseman but that only takes you so far.

DocTee Mar 07 2006 05:30 PM

My apologies: it wasn't Kent, but Jason Giambi whom Shef referred to. As a member of the Oakland A's there was amuch-replayed incident in which Giambi upbraided Tejada for not scoring form second on a single. Giambi received some kudos for this-- but when Modesi did the same vs. Shawn Green it was cast in a whole 'nother light. (again, I may have the particulars fuzzy on the last pair of individuals-- the Shef interview i am citing was with Roy Firestone on ESPN's UpClose.

ScarletKnight41 Mar 07 2006 06:04 PM

Jim Caple covered the Twins from 1989-1993, and he pays tribute to Puckett [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=2357321]here[/url].

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2006 11:18 AM

From Phil Mushnick's Friday column: Steiner Sports, the autograph/memorabilia firm that does exclusive work with the Yankees and Rangers ... e-mailed customers with word that with Puckett's passing, "The sports world has lost a great one," and Steiner Sports "still has five Batting Champ balls that have his signature." Only $800 apiece. The missive further noted that Steiner Sports has Puckett's autograph on a ball with 15 Hall of Famers. Those balls go for $2,000 each. With Puckett deceased only hours, one customer e-mailed back to express his disgust by such a sell. The next day, a Steiner salesman responded: "You are 100 percent correct and I apologize." That Puckett come-on, he continued, was "on a timer and wasn't supposed to be sent out until this morning." Oh, so Steiner Sports agrees that trying to take advantage of Puckett's young death the same day is crass but thinks it's OK if they wait until the next morning?

Bret Sabermetric Mar 12 2006 12:01 PM

It's a business. Whatever It Takes to generate cash-flow. What standard are you using?