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Bonds a Pre- Steroids Hall of Famer?

MFS62
Mar 10 2006 02:26 PM

Since we're on a similar subject about Jeter, here's baseball prospectus' look at Barry.

How do we announce our intentions in these United States?
That’s right, we sue.

It would seem that if Barry Bonds has been defamed by the book Game of Shadows--if he had reason to be outraged by the falsity of its reportage--he would be lining up a battery of lawyers as we speak. Perhaps he will yet, but usually, the threat of a defamation lawsuit is the first thing that bursts from the mouth of the accused in this, our litigious republic.

It is because we are a litigious society that we can go a long way in assuming that Game of Shadows--the work of two well-credentialed investigative reporters--is a fairly accurate picture of the truth. Take a moment, and try to estimate how many lawyers looked at the manuscript of Game of Shadows. Do you think that the publisher, a subsidiary of Penguin Books, one of the largest firms of its kind in the world, would let something as potentially slanderous as this loose without crossing their x’s and dotting their j’s? Not bloody likely. Knowing that their pockets are deep, we can assume they took extra precautions to safeguard themselves from charges of libel and a cash penalty that might result.

Cooperstown?

What are Bonds' chances at the Hall of Fame? From the sound of things, they're not very good. The general stinginess of the voting committee does not bode well for him and if I were Mark McGwire, I wouldn’t be busting out the scenic New York state tourist brochures anytime soon, either.

As a purely academic exercise, though, where did Bonds’ candidacy stand at the time of his great leap off the chemical pier? In terms of traditional statistics, this is how he ranked at the end of the 1998 season:

Home runs, 411: High 30s. Between Darrell Evans and Duke Snider. Now at 708 (3rd).
Runs batted in, 1,216: Not in the top 100 all-time. Now at 1,853 (11th).
Walks, 1,357: High 20s. Between Reggie Jackson and, ahem, Rafael Palmeiro. Now the all-time leader with 2,311.
On Base Percentage, .411: Low 30s all-time. Bobby Abreu, Hank Greenberg, Ed Delahanty territory. Has climbed to sixth at .442.
Slugging Average, .556: Mid-20s. In the Mickey Mantle realm. Has moved all the way up to fifth at .611.
Stolen Bases, 445: High 40s, just ahead of Steve Sax and Sherry Magee, a very good player once suspended for attacking an umpire and who then became an umpire himself when he stopped playing. Bonds has added 61 steals since ’98, moving up to 33rd place.

Based on traditional counting and rate stats, he was on extremely solid ground for election. Toss in three Most Valuable Player awards and he was a lock.

There’s another very quick and dirty way to determine Hall of Fame careers in terms of cumulative worth and peak value. By looking at WARP3 we can determine how many historically dominant seasons a player had and how much career value they racked up. This is within the historical context that WARP3 provides. To make it easy on the eye, just count the number of times a player went into double figures in WARP3. This gives a pretty good accounting of dominant seasons. For instance, Stan Musial’s score for this exercise is 187.6/10--a total of 187.6 WARP3 and 10 seasons in double figures.

Before Bonds allegedly started spiking, rubbing, dropping and popping, he rated a 134.6/8. No Hall of Famer has a configuration quite like that, but these are the closest:

Mike Schmidt, 148.4/9
Lou Gehrig, 142.8/9
Wade Boggs, 140.0/6
Jimmie Foxx, 136.0/5
Eddie Mathews, 130.3/5

Those are all no-argument Hall of Famers, unlike the group that follows. As a quick aside, can we move the plaques of these unworthies to the walls of the Hall of the Fame tool shed? These are the corner men and outfielders who have been inducted without the benefit of short burst greatness or a cumulative wealth of contribution:

Tommy McCarthy, 23.0/0
Chick Hafey, 49.0/0
Freddie Lindstrom, 49.5/0
George Kelly, 50.4/0
Earle Combs, 53.6/0
Lloyd Waner, 55.8/0
Heinie Manush, 62.3/0
George Kell, 62.9/0
Jim Bottomley, 63.0/0

You could also include Ross Youngs (54.4/0) if you feel his selection was of a purely sentimental nature and that he was not in the midst of a Hall of Fame career when he was felled by a kidney disorder. McCarthy is the single worst player in Cooperstown. I doubt he would make the top 1,500 all-time. His plaque should be moved to a tree in the woods six miles outside of town where it can be gazed upon by squirrels, deer and chipmunks.

Getting back to Bonds, he is not well-positioned emotionally to rehabilitate his image. He is not the type to cultivate favor among the press. A tear-stained mea culpa is not likely on his agenda. Even if he could conjure such an out of character performance, it is highly unlikely that voters will give him a pass on his transgressions and judge him on the merits of his pre-enhancement days. I think he’s pretty much hosed unless he saves 10 or 20 babies from a burning building at some point in the next few years. Even then, those babies had better be related to men on the voting committee.

A strange and distant future

Unless…

Things change. A lot.

This is a stretch but there may come a time many decades down the line wherein performance enhancement is no longer a cause celeb. It could be that 30, 40 or 50 years from now researchers will have found a way to artificially improve the human physique and abilities without nasty side effects. These artificial improvements will become commonplace and accepted. In a climate such as that, it could be possible for a Hall of Fame veterans committee to look back at what Bonds did and either wonder what all the fuss was about or, stranger still, see him as some sort of pioneer in the proper method for artificial self-improvement. It’s not the sort of future I would endorse, but, given the great strides made in that direction so far, it is one that is certainly possible.

Back to the courts

Returning to our litigious nature, do you think it’s possible that a team like, oh, the 2002 Atlanta Braves or St. Louis Cardinals could demand some sort of retribution for having been defeated by Bonds at the height of his alteration? Both were defeated by Bonds’ Giants in the playoffs that year, costing the teams and their players a good deal of money.
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Comments? What about that last question? Interesting.

Later

metirish
Mar 10 2006 02:51 PM

Well the last question is just dumb, nothing they can do with that now, what's done is done, Bonds was a great player before steroids and then a monster of a player when taken them, he really is a sure fire Hall of Famer.

Yancy Street Gang
Mar 10 2006 02:58 PM

You can't undo the past. Hakuna Matata!

All the talk of "erasing the numbers from the books" is equally silly. If you revise Bonds' home run totals, then you'd have to revise the box scores. And you'd have to take runs away from the Giants. And you'd have to change the outcome of games, and it goes on and on.

If the records are tainted, then they're tainted. Cincinnati's 1919 World Championship wasn't revoked. This history is what it is, good or bad.

rpackrat
Mar 10 2006 03:46 PM

The stuff about "if the allegations were untrue, he'd sue" is also BS. Bonds is, at a minimum, a semi-public figure. The legal standards for defaming such a person are extremely low. IIRC, its reckless disregard for the truth, which means that it is not enough for Bonds to prove the allegations false, he'd also have to prove the reporters knew they were false and published them anyway. It's a nearly impossible burden for a plaintiff to meet.

I'm not saying Bonds is not guilty, I'm just getting tired of that particular red herring of an argument.

Yancy Street Gang
Mar 10 2006 03:51 PM

Good point. So many things get published about celebrities in places like the National Enquirer and Weekly World News that never spawn lawsuits. If I have to suddenly start assuming that all that stuff is true my head will explode.

Zvon
Mar 10 2006 04:48 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
You can't undo the past. Hakuna Matata!

All the talk of "erasing the numbers from the books" is equally silly. If you revise Bonds' home run totals, then you'd have to revise the box scores. And you'd have to take runs away from the Giants. And you'd have to change the outcome of games, and it goes on and on.

If the records are tainted, then they're tainted. Cincinnati's 1919 World Championship wasn't revoked. This history is what it is, good or bad.


^^^thats it, in a nutshell.
Baseballs history is what it is, for good or for bad.
It happened, its past, its part of baseballs history.
Its in the books.

Now, baseball community can deny you things, like the Hall, like working in the game from some point on,....
but they cant take things away.

His records stand - he never gets in the Hall Of Fame.
You may say this is impossible given his homerun accomplishments, but its not.
Not at all.
The hit king of all time has been denied, and in my mind what he did was not as serious an offense, because he did not get those hits by cheating.
You cant say Pete Rose's batting accomplishments are tainted.
His character or reputation,.....sure.
But not his accomplishments.

Bonds has both working against him.

His tainted accomplishments and his reputation with the media.

Frayed Knot
Mar 10 2006 04:59 PM

As annoying as Chris Russo can be, he's right on this particular point of this issue:
when NYY-fan callers start to complain about erasing records from the Bonds/McGwire-age (no doubt, in part, to restore the season HR record to Maris) he responds that we can then continue by erasing Giambi's 2 HRs off Pedro which started the NYY comeback in Game 7 '03 ALCS.
That part usually doesn't go down as well.

You can't start erasing the past with an eye towards "correcting" what was wrong. There's just no way to know where to start or where to end.


And yes, Bonds was a pre-Steroid H-o-Fer

Gwreck
Mar 13 2006 01:38 AM

The debate with Bonds' stats being wiped is particularly troublesome when you factor in the fact that he hasn't be caught. Officially, anyway. Baseball tests for steroids, right? Bonds hasn't been suspended, right?

Ok, I know that sounds somewhat silly, especially given the evidence that Bonds has been taking something.

But the problem is that without some sort of official finding on the part of baseball, I don't think it's possible -- or reasonable -- for people to consider excluding stats, or excluding him from the hall of fame.

As for the Rose comparison -- wasn't Rose placed on the permanently excluded list? As part of an agreement with the comissioner's office? There's an official action. Hence no HOF for Rose. There's nothing analgous there to Bonds.

Edgy DC
Mar 13 2006 08:18 AM

Bonds is not, at best, a semi-public figure. The book is clearly damaging as all these conversations are about taking away his legacy, his respect, and his livelihood.

RealityChuck
Mar 13 2006 10:12 AM
Re: Bonds a Pre- Steroids Hall of Famer?

="MFS62"]It would seem that if Barry Bonds has been defamed by the book Game of Shadows--if he had reason to be outraged by the falsity of its reportage--he would be lining up a battery of lawyers as we speak. Perhaps he will yet, but usually, the threat of a defamation lawsuit is the first thing that bursts from the mouth of the accused in this, our litigious republic.
False assumption. Bonds is a public figure; thus not only does he have to prove the charges are false, he has to prove the authors knew they were false and published them anyway.

That's a very hard standard to meet. If he brings up evidence not in the book, for instance, the authors merely say, "We did not have access to that and knew nothing about it" and Bonds loses. He has to prove that they did know about this evidence and ignored it. Very difficult.

Not that this means Bonds is innocent, but the lack of a libel suit is meaningless.