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Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Mex17 Dec 04 2016 03:48 PM

This has been rolling around in my head for awhile so I thought that I would share. These are the folks who I think ought to be locks or at least should be discussed. . . Should have happened already: Nelson Doubleday -Frankly, since his passing I think that there has been an really unacknowledged black mark on this organization for not recognizing him and what he meant to the Mets. No sleeve patch when he died, as far as I can remember no real official mention of it at all, and a complete snub really altogether (including a non-induction to this point to the HOF). Unless there is something that we do not know about where the Wilpons did reach out only to have the Doubleday family somehow slam the door in their faces, The Three Stooges (Fred, Jeff, and Saul) should really be ashamed of themselves here. Can happen anytime they want at this point: Edgardo Alfonzo, Al Leiter -Career .292 batting average for Fonzie as a Met. . .120 homers, over 500 RBI. Solid defensive play. Memorable moments (That one game in Houston, Game two of the 2000 Division Series). All around good guy and team ambassador -Leiter. . .Staff workhorse for seven seasons. The big performance in the play-in game against Cincinnati. Clubhouse leader. -Both were prominently mentioned by Piazza during his Cooperstown victory lap as teammates that were a big part of his journey. Can't happen yet because they are still active players: David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran -I don't think that I need to articulate much of a case for any one of these three. And yes, forgive Beltran for the non-swing against Wainwright. Down the line: Howie Rose, Gary Cohen -They are not at Kiner/Murphy level just yet as far as legends go, but give it time. The one additional thing that I would mention is that, as far as I am concerned, a World Series championship should automatically result in the presiding GM/Field Manager combo getting in. . .there is already a precedent with this in Johnny Murphy/Hodges and Cashen/Davey. So let's hope that Sandy and TC gets their plaques someday too.

SteveJRogers Dec 04 2016 08:58 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I'd advocate for the induction of Bobby Valentine, but not Steve Phillips.

d'Kong76 Dec 04 2016 09:08 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Mildly surprised Alfonzo isn't in, and he works in the organization.

Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 04 2016 09:10 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I can't argue with Mex's reasoning. What do you think about Omar? Signed a lot of players who became studs, created the 2006-08 teams.

Ashie62 Dec 04 2016 09:36 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Wright will have his day and Alfonzo should.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2016 10:34 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I suspect the Wilpon/Doubleday feuds will keep ND* out of the conversation for a while yet and quite possibly forever. I'd be OK with either Leiter or Alfonzo - although the 7 & 8 years that those two spent in blue and orange is around the lower end of what I'd consider for NYM-HoF standard Wright's a no-brainer providing he doesn't get caught with kiddie porn or something equally creepy anytime in the near future. Is likely next on number retirement honors as well. Reyes is not quite as cemented but highly probable and this second act can only help. Beltran I'm a bit on the fence about. Seven seasons but a mediocre first one, several others injury-shortened, and then the final one incomplete. I suspect his success or not in the Big HoF may play a part in whether the Mets choose to honor him. Gary & Howie are just a matter of time as far as I'm concerned, but they're still in mid-career so no rush. Sandy & TC? ... let's see how their time here plays out. * In his recent book, Ron Darling revealed that a 'Nelson Doubleday' was player lingo for a No-Decision during those days. Getting a "Nelson Doubleday' was better than a 'Larry' but not as good as a 'Willie'

Edgy MD Dec 04 2016 11:27 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Rube.

Gwreck Dec 05 2016 12:05 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: What do you think about Omar? Signed a lot of players who became studs, created the 2006-08 teams. Nope. Also no to Phillips and Valentine. If you're a manager/executive, you either need a championship, or an extremely long tenure to even be in the discussion, I think.

Gwreck Dec 05 2016 12:09 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

FYI, career WAR as Met: 1. Seaver 2. Wright 3. Gooden 4. Koosman 5. Strawberry 6. Beltran 7. Alfonzo 8. Reyes 9. Leiter 10. Fernandez

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2016 12:27 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2016 01:36 AM

Gwreck wrote: FYI, career WAR as Met: 1. Seaver 2. Wright 3. Gooden 4. Koosman 5. Strawberry 6. Beltran 7. Alfonzo 8. Reyes 9. Leiter 10. Fernandez FYI, career CPF ranking as Met: 1. Seaver 2. Wright 3. Gooden 4. Koosman 5. Strawberry ----------------- 6. Piazza 7. J. Franco 8. Alfonzo 9. C. Jones 10. Fernandez Reyes is currently 12th but is likely to move up 2 - 4 spots after we evaluate this season. Beltran is 14th - behind HoJo and Kranepool and just ahead of Keith and Leiter. In all, our little jury-rigged system here does a halfway decent job at mimicking career WAR

SteveJRogers Dec 05 2016 12:38 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Gwreck wrote: Valentine...or an extremely long tenure to even be in the discussion, I think. Six full seasons and last month of a 7th makes him second to Davey in terms of tenure. Only Davey Johnson has more games managed than his 1,003, though Collins should pass him next year (31), unless the wheels come completely off early (actually he should pass Davey for the top spot as well (40 away). Ditto his 536 Met team win record, which Collins is 55 wins away (114 wins shy of Davey's 595). He does have the second most losses in team history (Collins passed him this year 491 to 467), but that's more on managing 6 full seasons, as opposed to Joe Torre's reasoning for being in third place due to franchise ineptitude. .534 win percentage is third highest in team history (minimum 200 games), behind Johnson's .588 and Randolph's .544. First manager to guide the franchise to back-to-back postseason appearances, two 90+ teams and 5 seasons of .500 or better. Big hit with fans and community (which probably counts more for something like a team specific Hall). Other than not being around longer than the 6 full seasons and the obvious championship, what else could you ask for?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2016 01:12 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I'd put Bobby Valentine in. And I think Terry Collins (although I'm not a fan of his) has already earned his spot. Sure, neither one of them won a World Series, but both won National League championships, and with only five such championships in a 55-year history, those pennants are worthy accomplishments. David Wright, as said above, is a shoo-in. And his 5 should be retired too, Hall of Fame or not. (And the "not" is just about certain.) Jose Reyes' claim is complicated by the domestic abuse. I don't know how that will influence things. Beltran and Alfonzo: Yes. Rube Walker: Yes! And I'm hoping that over the next four years, Yoenis Cespedes makes a strong claim for himself.

Gwreck Dec 05 2016 01:14 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

SteveJRogers wrote: Other than not being around longer than the 6 full seasons and the obvious championship, what else could you ask for? At least one championship and a long (say, 10+ year) tenure of general success. Valentine is not worthy of the Mets Hall of Fame. Neither is Collins, or Phillips, or Minaya, or Alderson.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2016 01:26 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I got a soft spot for Bobby, and wouldn't oppose his candidacy. Owners don't belong in the team HOF unless they do something extraordinary and ND sure didn't. Plus the animosity between him and the Wilpons makes it unlikely and just assures Fred and Jeff will be there too. They did more for the history of the franchise anyway, more bad than good but we're vastly more influential and nobody except Jeff and Eff wants to see that so it's really stupid. Yes to Al and Fonzie. Wright and perhaps Terry if this year goes well.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2016 02:19 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Belong or not, owners tend to get in Halls of Fame just by owning. Owning for two decades and winning a championship after buying a last place team tend to be seen as points in his ledger, whether he really led that turnaround or not. I root for his induction as a good step toward healing the cultural rifts in the entire Metsosphere. In 2016, nobody should be seriously signing up for Team Nelly vs. Team Freddy. But they do. It may not be the highest priority but the reconciliation it represents would be worth something. Surely, in some cobwebby corner of his mind, Fred must see that blessing his predecessor's legacy invites blessing on his own.

G-Fafif Dec 05 2016 02:22 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

HoJo has been too long overlooked. Three of the best pre-Piazza seasons in franchise history, all of them 30-30. Started as a regular at four positions (winning HR, RBI titles as right fielder when he was needed there). Had bad timing in that he always seemed to excel when the team was going to hell, but he was part of the greatest era the Mets ever enjoyed. I prefer a more expansive team Hall in general. If you're gonna be super strict on retired numbers, find another way to keep telling the story of the Mets. Orioles (whose HOF includes Melvin Mora), Twins (Rick Aguilera), Reds (Tom Seaver) all do it that way and their fans, I believe, are better off for it. Yes to Fonzie, Al and Bobby V from their time, for sure. And, though it is unlikely to happen, yes to Rube.

d'Kong76 Dec 05 2016 02:39 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Another yay for HoJo, a double yay for Rube... who's in charge of the MHoF?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2016 03:05 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Interns, probably.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2016 03:10 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

I think a few years ago they thoughtfully put together a panel that included Howie Rose and Gary Cohen and Marty Noble, among others. I don't know if that body has been maintained.

d'Kong76 Dec 05 2016 03:17 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Interns, probably. They should outsource it to us.

themetfairy Dec 05 2016 03:20 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

d'Kong76 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Interns, probably. They should outsource it to us. Seriously - we'd treat it with way more care than they would!

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2016 03:48 AM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Edgy MD wrote: Belong or not, owners tend to get in Halls of Fame just by owning. Owning for two decades and winning a championship after buying a last place team tend to be seen as points in his ledger, whether he really led that turnaround or not. I root for his induction as a good step toward healing the cultural rifts in the entire Metsosphere. In 2016, nobody should be seriously signing up for Team Nelly vs. Team Freddy. But they do. It may not be the highest priority but the reconciliation it represents would be worth something. Surely, in some cobwebby corner of his mind, Fred must see that blessing his predecessor's legacy invites blessing on his own. I suspect part of the 'pons bitterness towards Doubleday is that they view him as part of the source of their money problems. Not that he was responsible for them over-trusting Madoff of course but the lead-up to that time involved them have to buy ND out under less than friendly conditions, and then having to buy out the final year of his long-term (and therefore short-sighted) early '80s Cablevision deal before being able to launch SNY. It's also possible that they connect him as an impediment to replacing Shea which they may have been able to do cheaper and earlier if he were on board instead of having the thing delayed by 9/11 to the point where it wound up opening smack in the midst of the great recession.

MFS62 Dec 05 2016 01:49 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

What about the guy who has probably spent more time on a playing field wearing a Mets uniform than anyone else (player, coach, majors and minors)- Al Jackson?* Later * = no data, but a gut feel

Vic Sage Dec 05 2016 03:30 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Belong or not, owners tend to get in Halls of Fame just by owning. Owning for two decades and winning a championship after buying a last place team tend to be seen as points in his ledger, whether he really led that turnaround or not. I root for his induction as a good step toward healing the cultural rifts in the entire Metsosphere. In 2016, nobody should be seriously signing up for Team Nelly vs. Team Freddy. But they do. It may not be the highest priority but the reconciliation it represents would be worth something. Surely, in some cobwebby corner of his mind, Fred must see that blessing his predecessor's legacy invites blessing on his own. I suspect part of the 'pons bitterness towards Doubleday is that they view him as part of the source of their money problems. Not that he was responsible for them over-trusting Madoff of course but the lead-up to that time involved them have to buy ND out under less than friendly conditions, and then having to buy out the final year of his long-term (and therefore short-sighted) early '80s Cablevision deal before being able to launch SNY. It's also possible that they connect him as an impediment to replacing Shea which they may have been able to do cheaper and earlier if he were on board instead of having the thing delayed by 9/11 to the point where it wound up opening smack in the midst of the great recession. Regarding Doubleday, there is also this:[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/12/sports/baseball-baseball-has-nothing-to-say-about-doubleday-s-alleged-slur.html

Valadius Dec 05 2016 09:42 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Dan Warthen is a possibility if he sticks around a bit longer. Coming up on year 10 for him.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2016 09:50 PM Re: Mets HOF - possible future inductees

Regarding Doubleday, there is also this:[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/12/sports/baseball-baseball-has-nothing-to-say-about-doubleday-s-alleged-slur.html That's part of my thinking. Wilpon had the grace to come to Nelson's defense then (while making no claim that the report was false), and he certainly didn't have to. Heck, he could have let Doubleday doubledangle, subtly feeding the story of Nellie as a raging anti-semite, and gotten a little leverage to gain control of the team years earlier. Obviously other things have come to pass since then, but the guy is dead, and so I think Fred would see some wisdom in again showing a little grace, considering that stepping up for Nellie can no longer come around to bite him in the ass. But yeah, however representative that slur report was of Doubleday's character, I suspect Wilpon knows better than most, and maybe he doesn't want an induction he can't square with his conscience, or the Anti-Defamation League.