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Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield Jan 06 2017 12:37 PM

The saddest commentary on our nation is that this thread is necessary. At least 5 dead in Fort Lauderdale. Prayers for the victims and their families. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/us/fort-l ... -incident/

Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2018 01:02 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Two dead, 17 wounded at a high school in Kentucky.

Edgy MD Jan 23 2018 02:02 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

I'm not a parent, but it's boggling how any parent who has to send a child to school every day believes in the status quo.

cooby Jan 23 2018 04:43 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

I don't even remember that first one because if all the ones since. How awful is that?

Vic Sage Jan 24 2018 08:24 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

3 stabbing incidents (1 fatal) in and around my son's high school in New Rochelle. So now cops with guns roam the halls (despite the fact that 2 of the stabbings happened nearby, but off school grounds), yet I don't feel he's any safer as a consequence.

metirish Jan 24 2018 08:34 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Vic Sage wrote: 3 stabbing incidents (1 fatal) in and around my son's high school in New Rochelle. So now cops with guns roam the halls (despite the fact that 2 of the stabbings happened nearby, but off school grounds), yet I don't feel he's any safer as a consequence. I have been watching this story develop , very scary.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2018 08:59 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Virginia's legislature has voted to remove the blanket ban on guns in houses of worship. Yay! Bang-bang pass the plate.

Zvon Jan 24 2018 09:28 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Edgy MD wrote: Virginia's legislature has voted to remove the blanket ban on guns in houses of worship. Yay! Bang-bang pass the plate. You think the gung ho type gun owner gives a shit about that? Wait, do they pat you down before the service these days? I wouldn't be surprised. This is another thread I hate to open. Not for anything to do with guns, but because it usually means a bunch of people are dead.

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2018 09:32 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Insanity. Bumper sticker: "I pray for peace with my piece" USA/NRA

Zvon Jan 24 2018 09:53 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: Insanity. Bumper sticker: "I pray for peace with my piece" USA/NRA One thing I won't discuss online: Politics and.... TWO THINGS I won't discuss online: Politics and gun control. And I really try not to comment on both as well. Are they hand in hand? No comment.

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2018 09:58 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

We've been over the guns thing here many times, I have nothing to add. Taking time to legislate lifting a ban on guns in places of worship belongs in the insanity thread not the politics or gun control thread.

Nymr83 Jan 24 2018 10:02 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: We've been over the guns thing here many times, I have nothing to add. Taking time to legislate lifting a ban on guns in places of worship belongs in the insanity thread not the politics or gun control thread. why is there an explicit ban in the first place? the church, just like any other privately owned space (malls for example) can set their own rules as to what is allowed on their property. I know several synagogues with armed security particularly on busy holidays. it seems a sensible precaution given the potential target they present to terrorists who - guess what - are going to break the law.

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2018 10:06 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

I have nothing against security of any kind anywhere if it's needed.

Nymr83 Jan 24 2018 10:10 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: I have nothing against security of any kind anywhere if it's needed. but wouldn't the ban you suggest shouldn't be lifted have prevented such security as i describe?

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2018 10:15 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

There's a difference between some butt hole bringing a pistol to prayer meeting under the premise/guise of 'I need to protect my family' and a venue hiring trained armed personnel to be in place in the event of an attack. C'mon.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2018 10:21 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Nymr83 wrote: why is there an explicit ban in the first place? the church, just like any other privately owned space (malls for example) can set their own rules as to what is allowed on their property. Because many citizens wander from church to church, from mall to mall, from Costco to Costo, from movie theater to movie theater, and from saloon to saloon, and have an expectation of the same regime and the same societal rules being in place from one to another.

cooby Jan 24 2018 11:29 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

I know people that take their guns to church. I don't know if anyone at my church does.

Lefty Specialist Jan 24 2018 11:38 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Why not surround a church with land mines? I mean, you can let the congregation know where they're located, because we wouldn't want to be crazy or anything. But that'd probably protect them from Mooslims. And it's easy, because the US is one of a handful of countries who's refused to sign a treaty banning land mines!

Nymr83 Jan 24 2018 11:50 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: There's a difference between some butt hole bringing a pistol to prayer meeting under the premise/guise of 'I need to protect my family' and a venue hiring trained armed personnel to be in place in the event of an attack. C'mon. The difference is that some people/groups - like the king of all gun control hypocrites Michael Bloomberg - have the money to pay for "trained armed personnel" while others who want the same protection don't.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2018 11:53 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: There's a difference between some butt hole bringing a pistol to prayer meeting under the premise/guise of 'I need to protect my family' and a venue hiring trained armed personnel to be in place in the event of an attack. C'mon. My church couldn't afford trained, armed personnel, and shouldn't need to. And God help them, they'd hire the most dangerous fruit on the tree. I got jumped last year on the way to Church. Four teenagers. I dealt with it as best as I could. My wife reported it on the neighborhood listserv, thinking she was doing neighbors a service. My God, but there's a lot of racists in this town, and a whole bunch logged on calling me an idiot for not packing heat to Church, which is never going to happen. I'm prety sure Michael Bloomberg isn't the king of all anything, except, you know, King of Business-Covering Media Conglomerates.

Lefty Specialist Jan 24 2018 11:58 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Yes, because UNtrained armed personnel are so much better. Indiana's trying to get rid of the requirement of filling out ANY paperwork at all to get a gun. Just pick one up as easy as a box of Good n' Plenties.

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2018 12:00 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to chase my tail over this. My little peeve is the guy/ gal that sticks their chest out strong and says I need to go (wherever) armed because they need to protect their family. 98.783% it's just bullshit imho. Go play with the guns in the woods or a range like normal people. OE: responding to Namor before subsequent posts were made

cooby Jan 24 2018 12:13 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

You know whats really sad? I was the reader at church this past week, so I was sitting up front. I saw a large guy in the back row I didn't know and my 'antennas' went up, so to speak. He kept looking around and over to the side and at the pew beside him. Then when he came up for communion, he was carrying an infant.

Ceetar Jan 24 2018 02:34 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

That's why the NRA and the like tell tall tale bedtime stories about home invasions where they don't care if you're home or not because they'll just kill you. Or how you definitely want to be the one holding a gun during a mass shooting when the cops show up.

Zvon Jan 25 2018 12:37 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017

Ceetar wrote: Or how you definitely want to be the one holding a gun during a mass shooting when the cops show up. Now Ceetar, this^, is funny. *takes off tie

Benjamin Grimm Feb 14 2018 02:25 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

One dead, more than 20 injured in mass shooting at Florida high school; suspect in custody And the beat goes on... "The president has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida," Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters said. "We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected." Oh, good. "Thoughts and prayers."

cooby Feb 14 2018 02:33 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Oh no. I thought I was safe not checking the news today. Donald needs to get a catchier comment. That one's not very comforting

Edgy MD Feb 14 2018 02:59 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

And now we'll have an all new St. Valentine's Day Massacre to commemorate. Fight the NRA.

Centerfield Feb 14 2018 04:35 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

This is just sickening. How politicians sleep at night is beyond me. This country makes me want to puke.

cooby Feb 14 2018 04:53 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

There are some things you just cannot blame on politicians.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 14 2018 04:58 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Original reports were one dead and 20 injured. Now they're saying 17 dead. And I do blame politicians who think the only solution is "thoughts and prayers"

cooby Feb 14 2018 05:15 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I dunno. I am just tired of every headline and story having something to do with government. There are some really bad people out there that are totally apolitical I hate trump as much as anyone but this is not his fault There are effing crazies out there

Edgy MD Feb 14 2018 05:45 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

There are bad people out there in every country. Worse people in some. But ours is the only where this happens with any regularity.

Lefty Specialist Feb 14 2018 05:52 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Well, we arm our bad people better than other countries do. Florida's a really easy place to stock up, too.

Fman99 Feb 14 2018 08:01 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Heartbroken.

Centerfield Feb 14 2018 09:13 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

It’s on the politicians. And the Republicans and their ties to the NRA specifically. Every one of those assholes have blood on their hands. I hope they rot in hell. It’s crazy. It’s hardly even news anymore.

Nymr83 Feb 14 2018 09:18 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Why havent we had nearly the number of mass shootings in courts? Why hasn't a shooter gotten loose in Congress? What do those places have that schools don't? Maybe when the politicans start taking protecting children seriously there will be less of these stories.

Chad Ochoseis Feb 15 2018 05:43 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Metal detectors at every entrance and an armed guard or two for every classroom would bring the security level up to what we have in courts and US Congresses. But then we'd be left with no money at all for things like, well, education.

Nymr83 Feb 15 2018 05:55 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Metal detectors at every entrance and an armed guard or two for every classroom would bring the security level up to what we have in courts and US Congresses. But then we'd be left with no money at all for things like, well, education. every classroom would probably be pushing it, a few in the school wouldn't be. I needed to walk through a metal detector to do jury duty - unlike the craziness at our airports it didnt take very long even with a long line of folks waiting

Centerfield Feb 15 2018 05:59 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Metal detectors at every entrance and an armed guard or two for every classroom would bring the security level up to what we have in courts and US Congresses. But then we'd be left with no money at all for things like, well, education. I think you may be on to something. Pull all security from the courts and government and re-assign them to schools. Not a single lawmaker, including the President, gets a stitch of security until the school shootings stop. If we lose a few members of Congress along the way, well, "nothing we can do to stop something like this".

MFS62 Feb 15 2018 06:02 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: It’s on the politicians. And the Republicans and their ties to the NRA specifically. Every one of those assholes have blood on their hands. I hope they rot in hell. It’s crazy. It’s hardly even news anymore. Children die while those politicians get money to keep their jobs. They are complicit, if not guilty of aiding and abetting. Later

Lefty Specialist Feb 15 2018 06:34 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

As a nation, we want this. If we didn't, we'd vote for people who want common-sense gun safety measures. Americans are willing to tolerate this because they want to own any kind of fucking gun they want, and any restrictions on that mean that somehow our freedom dies. The freedom of 17 teenagers to actually live the rest of their lives is a small price to pay for that. So says 'Murica'. This school had security. They did active shooter drills. It didn't matter. It won't matter in the next shooting either. IT NEVER MATTERS. Having a metal detector won't matter either if the perpetrator decides to blow away the security guard standing by it before he even realizes what's happening. The solution is not to turn high schools into armed camps. The solution needs to start at the other end of the barrel. But I know, as does everyone else, that you could kill 17 high school kids every day for the rest of the year and nothing will change. Actually, something may change. They might decide to loosen gun laws further.

metirish Feb 15 2018 06:53 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I am so sickened that this is now normal, that iconic American shot from high in the air of kids being ushered out of their school , nothing will happen. At Lorcan's school St. Theresa's they have had armed security(Ex NYPD Swat) for the past 6 months. EDIT.....this doesn't make me feel much more secure ...although I htink it is a good thing.

Ceetar Feb 15 2018 07:17 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

please keep the armed people and guns AWAY from the school. This includes cops and security guards and armed teachers or any of that. Just no. LESS GUNS NOT MORE. It's not hard. LESS GUNS. LESS! that means less. fewer. Not "let's put more guns in the vicinity so we can have a shootout!" fuck that. Schools are popular in part because of the attention it gets I think, but it's hardly exclusively schools. night clubs, concerts, something at a government softball game right? It's still ridiculously unlikely that a shooting will happen in any given school, and curbing this insane state of fear is important too. Locally, and I'm not even involved in the schools yet to really be paying attention, we have regular false alarms like "oh, turns out the guy was just a kids grandparent going to pick up the kid and wasn't sure exactly what street to turn down so he asked someone where it was. HIDE THE KIDS SOMEONE INQUIRED ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE SCHOOL. Other incidents include someone from the district knocking on the door to get in. The kids didn't let him in so he tried another door and got the same result. That sorta "gotta know every person who comes and goes and get a DNA test from them" has been going on since roughly my senior year, but it's understandable that someone randomly needing to go to the school wouldn't know the proper or best entrance to get in. The more this goes on the more I lean towards the "this is why we can't have nice things" idea that we should just ban all guns. In general I support a person's freedom of property or whatever to own a small pistol or shotgun or something for hunting and firing ranges and such, but we're making no progress towards nuance or compromise so just ban them all and work on reducing the total number of dangerous murder sticks in the country as a whole.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2018 07:31 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: As a nation, we want this. If we didn't, we'd vote for people who want common-sense gun safety measures. Americans are willing to tolerate this because they want to own any kind of fucking gun they want, and any restrictions on that mean that somehow our freedom dies. The freedom of 17 teenagers to actually live the rest of their lives is a small price to pay for that. So says 'Murica'. Well, there's a cogent argument that this isn't what we want, but due to the gerrymandering imposed upon our electorate (and our tendency to ideologically cluster), it's nonetheless what we've bought.

Lefty Specialist Feb 15 2018 08:22 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Americans are 4.4% of the world's population, but own 42% of the guns. These kinds of things don't happen anywhere else with the frequency they're happening here. And gerrymanders aren't destiny. They can be outvoted, and they can be fought (see Pennsylvania). If a Muslim suicide bomber walked into that school, set off the bomb and killed 17 students, the country would be turning itself upside down looking for answers. But a kid walks in with an AR-15 and kills 17 students, we shrug and say, 'Hey, what are you gonna do?" That's our problem. Because we won't deal with the instrument of death.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2018 08:39 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I didn't mean to suggest that gerrymanders are destiny. I meant to dispute that this is what Americans want and what they voted for.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 15 2018 08:43 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Well, it's no secret that elected officials are more concerned with the interests of their donors than of their voters.

Lefty Specialist Feb 15 2018 08:59 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Precisely. Daring to discuss gun control (even things that have 80-90% approval, like universal background checks), especially on the Republican side, guarantees you an automatic primary challenge and a withdrawal of funding.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 15 2018 09:45 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Here's a potential school shooting, in Everett, Washington, that looks like it was prevented, thanks to an alert and responsible grandmother: Documents: Student in Washington school shooting plot: 'I need to get the biggest fatality number'

Centerfield Feb 15 2018 11:33 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Florida shooter was a white supremacist. Like the least surprising thing ever.

Chad Ochoseis Feb 15 2018 12:02 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

For your Second Amendment extremist friends, Federalist 29 makes it pretty clear that the intention of the Constitution was "a well regulated militia" and not "a bunch of psychopaths running hog wild with ez-kill machines."

metsmarathon Feb 15 2018 12:20 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

thoughts and prayers don't stop school shootings. putting more guns in schools doesn't stop school shootings. putting more guns in the hands of whoever can get them doesn't stop school shootings. maybe let's fucking try getting rid of the fucking guns. especially those whose sole, specific, intended purpose is the high-quantity rapid deathmaking of human beings. it should not be so difficult. a well-regulated milita does not shoot up schools full of kids.

Lefty Specialist Feb 15 2018 12:24 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The NRA wants you to have a Happy Valentine's Day! (Since taken down, because thoughts and prayers) This one's still up, though. Congressional candidates giving away free AR-15's! http://tylertannahill.com/giveaway.php THEN to compound it, after realizing an AR-15 just killed 17 kids, he links to a gun group shilling 'safety' programs for schools, which they refer to as 'soft targets'. I'm guessing they'd like kindergarten teachers fully armed, judging by the cute pictures of little kids on the site. So you help create a problem, then profit off the fear created by that problem. http://fastersaveslives.org/ This is America today.

cooby Feb 15 2018 12:31 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Saw that article too. Gruesome. You know, after reading article after article about school shootings, natural disasters, etc, I suddenly realized that I totally skip over what Trump has to say, because he has zero credibility. After 9-11, though I did not particularly support George W, I still cared about what he had to say, and he rose to it

Zvon Feb 15 2018 01:33 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Vic Sage Feb 15 2018 02:21 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

It became clear after Columbine that our government has made the conscious decision that the repeated massacre of crowds of people, including school kids, is the price of "freedom" and NRA lobby money. And they're ok with that, apparently. So they'll keep willfully misinterpreting the 2nd amendment and cashing their checks, because we haven't punished them for doing that. That's on us.

d'Kong76 Feb 15 2018 03:00 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

There's really no reason for a civilian to own an assault rifle. Make it a law that they must be surrendered; hell, pay them out of tax dollars for the market value of the weapon. After that, anyone caught with an assault rifle gets mandatory twenty years in prison. The illegal hand gun law in NY that has a mandatory one year in jail keeps pistols out of 99.867% of people having one in their night stands. The criminals don't care, they're already criminals. Having that year in prison in the back of one's mind is a huge deterrent to law-abiding joes and janes. Banning civilian ownership of military weapon with a mandatory twenty years in prison would be a start. Neither side of the aisle has the balls to make that move. That's something you can take to the bank. (this post is off-the-cuff and not in response to anything else posted in this thread)

Nymr83 Feb 15 2018 03:18 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Vic Sage wrote: So they'll keep willfully misinterpreting the 2nd amendment and cashing their checks, because we haven't punished them for doing that. it seems to be that everyone's interpretation of the Second Amendment is whatever best supports their political position. Alan Dershowitz is a rare exception, he is very pro-gun control and says he would eliminate the second amendment entirely if he could, but admits that it protects individual rights as it currently stands (and presciently warns that attacks on the second amendment could lead to legal arguments that attack other parts of the bill of rights as well)

Zvon Feb 15 2018 03:35 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

[fimg=500:3g3qhc38]https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27857990_1788286271194998_1368325732484226355_n.jpg?oh=49f845c30b7eb6e71408676e4638d3f4&oe=5AD940DD[/fimg:3g3qhc38]

Edgy MD Feb 15 2018 04:55 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: Florida shooter was a white supremacist. Like the least surprising thing ever. There was hatred and bigotry on many sides. — President Trump

cooby Feb 15 2018 05:38 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Didn’t he trot that out in another occasion?

Lefty Specialist Feb 15 2018 05:47 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nymr83 wrote: Vic Sage wrote: So they'll keep willfully misinterpreting the 2nd amendment and cashing their checks, because we haven't punished them for doing that. it seems to be that everyone's interpretation of the Second Amendment is whatever best supports their political position. Alan Dershowitz is a rare exception, he is very pro-gun control and says he would eliminate the second amendment entirely if he could, but admits that it protects individual rights as it currently stands (and presciently warns that attacks on the second amendment could lead to legal arguments that attack other parts of the bill of rights as well) "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". I think that means everyone who wants to own a gun should be required to join the National Guard for a few years.

Nymr83 Feb 15 2018 06:03 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. Of course, we could go ahead and take other amendments more literally. If we took the first amendment more literally, threats of violence against your ex-wife or the president would be constitutionally protected speech (you'd need actions to be taken towards carrying out those threats to charge someone with a crime) If we took the tenth amendment literally we could do away with 90% of the federal government.

cooby Feb 15 2018 06:09 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

That’s just it... some of these amendments are so outdated and are the results of some isolated incident (much like those ‘stupid laws’ books) and could stand to be updated or deleted.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2018 06:14 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nymr83 wrote: that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. That's just not true. The purpose of the amendment was in response to the concern that a centralized federal militia would be a threat to the states, so it was necessary to guarantee the rights of the states to field their own.

metsmarathon Feb 15 2018 09:28 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nymr83 wrote: that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. . Well then what the hell was the point of the second amendment then? To ensure that people could go shooti’ for fun? Were penises just really small back then and they thought putting guns in every pair of trousers was the best way to hide the fact? It ain’t about hunting, or standing ground, or stopping crime.

Nymr83 Feb 16 2018 05:28 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. . Well then what the hell was the point of the second amendment then? To ensure that people could go shooti’ for fun? Were penises just really small back then and they thought putting guns in every pair of trousers was the best way to hide the fact? It ain’t about hunting, or standing ground, or stopping crime. i laughed at that. the purpose was slightly different to different parties, personal self-defense was certainly part of it as was hunting (though the desire to prevent restrictions on hunting were historically not as much about actual hunting as they were about the nefarious [read: gun control] uses to which certain English monarchs had used hunting laws) - but the #1 reason was the firm belief that an armed populace was the best defense against tyranny - and this necessarily extended beyond a state-controlled militia as they were afraid not just of the new federal government but of the state governments as well. So the main purpose of the second amendment was to protect yourself when Donald Trump came for you. (now Liberals will love it, right?)

Edgy MD Feb 16 2018 06:23 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

PLEASE don't look at this as a chance to troll liberals. Prediction: The president will see this as a chance to discredit the FBI and the investigations into his campaign's alleged involvement with Russian hijacking of our elections.

Nymr83 Feb 16 2018 06:37 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I'm not seeing it. He doesn't have any reason to even try and make such a non-existent link. There is plenty of Hillary-innuendo to blame instead. Maybe hee'll claim that Bill introduced him to that hooker.

metsmarathon Feb 16 2018 07:24 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. . Well then what the hell was the point of the second amendment then? To ensure that people could go shooti’ for fun? Were penises just really small back then and they thought putting guns in every pair of trousers was the best way to hide the fact? It ain’t about hunting, or standing ground, or stopping crime. i laughed at that. the purpose was slightly different to different parties, personal self-defense was certainly part of it as was hunting (though the desire to prevent restrictions on hunting were historically not as much about actual hunting as they were about the nefarious [read: gun control] uses to which certain English monarchs had used hunting laws) - but the #1 reason was the firm belief that an armed populace was the best defense against tyranny - and this necessarily extended beyond a state-controlled militia as they were afraid not just of the new federal government but of the state governments as well. So the main purpose of the second amendment was to protect yourself when Donald Trump came for you. (now Liberals will love it, right?) an armed populace being the best defense against tyranny, why do we outlaw personal use of grenade launchers, fighter jets, and tactical nuclear weapons? because as effective as ar-15s are at mowing down schoolchildren, they don't do shit against tanks. and if the tyrants really wanted to oppress us, that's what they'd use. not kids and unarmed concert-goers. but hey, if the 2nd amendment is truly immutable, and there's nothing we can do to limit it to weapons that do not so effectively, efficiently, and indiscriminately end lives, then you should be all-in on solving the other side of the problem. drive out anger from our society. heal our wounds. invest heavily in mental health care and emotional health care for all people in our country. love each other despite our differences and aberrations. those would be good things, right? so, what's the harm with universal mental health care? i guess some people have a problem with helping out poor people who get seriously ill, like from germs and accidents and stuff, but what's the harm in helping out all people, poors included, who have mental and emotional problems? why not improve the quality of that care, make it universally accessible and affordable, make it so that it is not a tool of last resort, for only the worst of the worst. put government funding into research into schizophrenia, both its causes and its effective mitigation and treatment, and similar disorders. depression, bipolar, all that jazz. in-patient care. out-patient care. life counseling. fill in all the cracks, so those who are affected by these terrible diseases don't fall out of society, or worse. and while we're at it, fund the hell out of schools so that instead of armed guards at every fucking door, they have counselors in every classroom, whose job, whose responsibility, is the emotional health of our young ones. because it's a tough job, and parents don't always have all the tools. if parents had ALL the tools, we wouldn't need teachers or doctors or pharmacists or plumbers or firefighters or soldiers, would we. why heap this burden on them alone? put and end to bullying and bullying behavior. not only in schools but online and in the rest of the real world. somebody is different from you? great! revel in your uniqueness. somebody has different color hair, or eyes, or skin than you? has different genitalia than you? somebody speaks a different language? comes from a different country? has a different family structure? loves differently? prays differently? has different views on the role of government in a capitalist economy? embrace the differences. somebody has a bad day, or a bad time, or has had a bad life, or bad parents, or just plain bad luck? bring them up, don't push them down. then, maybe we wouldn't have to worry about disarming people, i guess. so if you're not going to take away the tools of death and destruction, go HARD after the other roots of the issue. or do nothing, and continue to offer thoughts and prayers. and in the meantime, our broken people will continue to be armed, instead of getting put back together.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2018 07:32 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nicely said.

Edgy MD Feb 16 2018 07:51 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

metsmarathon wrote: an armed populace being the best defense against tyranny, why do we outlaw personal use of grenade launchers, fighter jets, and tactical nuclear weapons? So far. But yeah, this is screamingly obvious. Our guns, even our AR-15s, are not weapons to save our liberty from the federal government. They are weapons to massacre our neighbors with. The federal government, if it wants to, can delete you more or less from space. As comprehensively and pathetically armed as we are, we are woefully and miserably out-gunned for any insurrection. And as the government amends our liberties regularly, we're voting to give it more and more power over us. As a struggle for liberty, I'm not impressed. It's not the government we are arming ourselves against. It's each other.

Nymr83 Feb 16 2018 11:11 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The FBI now admits they were warned about this shooter over a month ago, but failed to investigate - in violation of their own protocols. [url]https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/parkland-shooting-fbi-tipster Heads should roll.

Vic Sage Feb 16 2018 11:25 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018 Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Feb 16 2018 11:46 AM

Nymr83 wrote: that is a pretty absurd meaning and you know it. more to the point, nobody started trying to restrict the 2nd amendment based on the prefatory language until many, many years after it was written. Of course, we could go ahead and take other amendments more literally. If we took the first amendment more literally, threats of violence against your ex-wife or the president would be constitutionally protected speech (you'd need actions to be taken towards carrying out those threats to charge someone with a crime) If we took the tenth amendment literally we could do away with 90% of the federal government. i love it when strict constuctionists like Scalia make up new law and act like that's what its said all along. And when Republicans complain about judge-made law, they just mean liberal-judge made law. The 2nd A? No, that's got to be viewed ... um ... broadly. Well, i'm NOT a strict constructionist, so i won't be hypocritical about it. I believe laws need to evolve based on sound logic and the evolution of our culture. You guys want to recognize that the Constitution includes an implicit right of privacy that protects a woman's right to choose and people of different genders (or no definable gender) to marry, and i'll agree that the 2nd A reserves to individuals (rather than states) a personal right of gun ownership. At least since 2008, when Scalia made that shit up (and even he acknowledged that it wasn't an unlimited right, no different than any other constitutional right which have routinely been limited). Up until then, it was never found to be a personal right. The last case before that, Miller in 1939, made that clear. What happened between 1939 and 2008 to change the Court's mind? A deliberate, well-financed propaganda campaign over decades sponsored by the NRA to protect and increase its market, disinforming a disenfranchised alt-right who want their guns to keep them safe from the colored folks, foreigners and the Jews. I assure you, the fight over gun control doesn't have shit to do with hunting, or even personal gun ownership to protect one's home. Neither of those activities require a military assault rifle, and both could be preserved (even if the 2nd A didn't actually require it), while still having sensible limitations as we do for just about every other amendment in the Bill of Rights. No, it's about the organized fear-mongering that has lead a "defenseless citizenry" to fear enslavement by the zionist occupational government (or whatever the non-white boogeyman of the day is) and to fight to preserve its right to violent revolution. And if that's the case, there is no logic to Scalia's expanded definition of the 2nd A, because the government can deliver tactical nukes from space and you're sitting there with a rifle -- even a really cool rifle that could kill alot of folks real quick! You know, just like a knife could, so why bother limiting guns -- which demonstrates that the right of revolution is something we have already evolved beyond. So, in order to preserve a right that never existed, and shouldn't now but for a bought-and-paid-for Scalia decision 10 years ago, we act like this has ALWAYS been the case and we're willing to let our kids die to prove it. At a rate off the charts, particularly in comparison to just about anywhere else on Earth. We act like there's nothing we could do, when there's so much we can do. Gun control is favored by the vast majority, but congress still won't pass gun control laws, much less a law that overturns Scalia's Heller decision. Even if the Heller decision stands, the law allows for limitations on constitutional rights. Why is this one law unlimited? Who are these politicians representing? Their campaign contributors, the gun lobby. You know who says "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"? The fella selling the motherfucking guns, that's who. And if voters aren't willing to make politicians beholden to the NRA pay for their moral cowardice and greed, then we have no one to blame but ourselves.

cooby Feb 16 2018 11:34 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I pass a gun shop on my way to my grandson's house. Every time this happens, the next day the parking lot is packed.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2018 11:35 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Isn't that crazy? Who are these people? If I bought a new gun after every mass shooting, I'd be broke and my house would be overflowing with guns.

Lefty Specialist Feb 16 2018 11:37 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

We actually had an assault weapon ban for ten years, which would have prevented this and other tragedies. The American people's freedom somehow survived. It was allowed to expire in 2004 because the NRA had made it their mission to destroy anyone who wanted to extend it. What we really need to do is show the mutilated bodies. These shootings are far too antiseptic. All you see are crying people holding candles. Show a teenager with his head blown off by a military weapon. And keep showing them. And keep on showing them until people understand what we allow in this country in the name of a warped view of 'freedom'. We hide the horror of these events. And because we do, they're easier to justify. People turned against the war in Vietnam when they started seeing the pictures of what was going on. People turned against the Iraq war when they saw the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Show what [u:1ygkqvxr]really[/u:1ygkqvxr] happens, and then let's have a conversation.

cooby Feb 16 2018 11:39 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Isn't that crazy? Who are these people? If I bought a new gun after every mass shooting, I'd be broke and my house would be overflowing with guns. exactly. It's almost as ridiculous as when I worked at a bank across from a hardware store and every time it snowed, people'd be there buying snow shovels. Who doesn't already have a snow shovel in the NE?

cooby Feb 16 2018 11:42 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: We actually had an assault weapon ban for ten years, which would have prevented this and other tragedies. The American people's freedom somehow survived. It was allowed to expire in 2004 because the NRA had made it their mission to destroy anyone who wanted to extend it. What we really need to do is show the mutilated bodies. These shootings are far too antiseptic. All you see are crying people holding candles. Show a teenager with his head blown off by a military weapon. And keep showing them. And keep on showing them until people understand what we allow in this country in the name of a warped view of 'freedom'. We hide the horror of these events. And because we do, they're easier to justify. People turned against the war in Vietnam when they started seeing the pictures of what was going on. People turned against the Iraq war when they saw the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Show what really happens, and then let's have a conversation. Yep, and then we see the victims' pictures as they looked alive and it's all too difficult to imagine them dead, and brutally killed to boot. Especially children.

Vic Sage Feb 16 2018 11:43 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

cooby wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Isn't that crazy? Who are these people? If I bought a new gun after every mass shooting, I'd be broke and my house would be overflowing with guns. exactly. It's almost as ridiculous as when I worked at a bank across from a hardware store and every time it snowed, people'd be there buying snow shovels. Who doesn't already have a snow shovel in the NE? at least owning a snow shovel makes sense if your goal is to shovel snow. But buying guns to make you safer? Yeah, not so much with the sense there.

cooby Feb 16 2018 11:45 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 16 2018 12:06 PM

I dunno. Maybe they’re just buying ammo and not more guns. But still...

metsmarathon Feb 16 2018 12:04 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

gotta restock before the gummint takes 'em away

cooby Feb 16 2018 12:06 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Probably exactly what they are thinking

Nymr83 Feb 16 2018 12:21 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

metsmarathon wrote: gotta restock before the gummint takes 'em away I think the weeks after Obama's election were the best sales ever because of thinking like this

metsmarathon Feb 16 2018 12:25 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

so, you know what's fucking insane? i mean, besides the fact that we have to argue that the continuing, repeating, unceasing mass murder of schoolchildren demands immediate and aggressive change, that is? it's the idea that arming schools is the solution. which is great, because teachers are perfect and infallible, and not subject at all to immense pressure. seriously, no knock against teachers, but we already have to keep our teachers from beating up students, or having sex with them, and just last night a former teacher in nyc was charged with having his students help him build some pressure cooker bombs. so maybe arming them isn't the best way. plus, okay, let's say there's an active shooter, and you've got a teacher with a gun on lockdown, and a poor kid who was caught in the hallway, now looking for safety. or maybe its an administrator, or law enforcement coming by after the real threat's already been neutralized? how's that story gonna end? and registered gun owners aren't always the most responsible as they could be with their weapons, or we wouldn't have toddlers shooting themselves when they reach into their moms' purses. plus, if you've got a true bad apple in the room, he doesn't need to bring his own weapon - all he has to do is jack it off his teacher. so, maybe arming the teachers isn't the way. let's have armed security guards. like, maybe put all our retired military and police to good use, i frequently hear. so.. like... not to be ageist, but retired typically means older, right? like, there's a reason he's not out patrolling the streets. and now these retired cops and retired military are going to face down a young man with an AR? good luck, dude! also, not to belittle our fine police and military, but neither group has been all that terrific in terms of their relationship with civilian populations lately, right? i mean, the military has sure as fuck turned itself in a more proper direction since abu girab, but we've got a sizeable chunk of our populace worried that a cop with a gun is going to shoot them dead for no reason, and now we're gonna post more armed ones of those at their schools? that'll go over swimmingly. but let's ignore all that and simply talk logistics, right? one armed ex-cop versus a determined young man with an AR? he'll never even see it coming. give him some cover, and you maybe have a chance. but tehy can still be taken out lickety split by a single attacker in one go. you need a third guard in overwatch, covering the two of them. for each entry point. plus an available fill-in for when these guards need to take bio breaks. and they better be armed and armored. or else they're just another body for the count. that's what you'd need to do, to keep our schools "safe" against this type of attack. and we don't have enough money to properly equip our classrooms with the books, pencils, markers, and tissues they need to properly educate our kids....

cooby Feb 16 2018 12:31 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Our school district is about to declare bankruptcy, but after Sandusky came calling on our football team, it's armed to the teeth at least at the high schools, so they found the money. No, I don't like the idea either. Especially since my daughter is a teacher.

Lefty Specialist Feb 16 2018 12:32 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nymr83 wrote: metsmarathon wrote: gotta restock before the gummint takes 'em away I think the weeks after Obama's election were the best sales ever because of thinking like this Well, he fooled them, didn't he?

Edgy MD Feb 16 2018 01:47 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Prediction: The president will see this as a chance to discredit the FBI and the investigations into his campaign's alleged involvement with Russian hijacking of our elections. Florida Governor Rick Scott has called for FBI Director Wray's resignation over the shooting.

metsmarathon Feb 16 2018 01:58 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

well that's awfully convenient.

Lefty Specialist Feb 17 2018 04:30 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

If you haven't already watched this, you should. High school kids are getting fed up with being targets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxD3o-9H1lY

Rockin' Doc Feb 17 2018 05:51 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: If you haven't already watched this, you should. High school kids are getting fed up with being targets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxD3o-9H1lY Powerful speech by the young lady. Young people like her give me hope for the future. Unfortunately, a thoughtful, compassionate, reasonable person of the working class has virtually no chance of winning a seat in our national government when pitted against pampered, privileged, millionaires that are completely out of touch with the general public.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 17 2018 06:05 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

It would be nice if this caught on: Prominent Republican Donor Issues Ultimatum on Assault Weapons

41Forever Feb 18 2018 10:46 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My pastor had some interesting thoughts this morning. The overriding issue isn’t the guns, though there is work to do there. It isn’t the problems diagnosing, treating and destigmatizing mental illness, though there is much, much to do there. It’s a culture fueled by violence and divisivness. We are quick to glorify violence. We are quick to label and declare people evil if we have different philosophies. There isn’t a government solution, though it can address some of the symptoms. It comes down to people individually and collectively, and how we treat each other and value each other. He gave me a lot to think about.

d'Kong76 Feb 18 2018 12:08 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Kiner, Murphy and Nelson... does Pastor Bob have a NRA sticker on his Lincoln?

TransMonk Feb 18 2018 12:21 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

41Forever wrote: It comes down to people individually and collectively, and how we treat each other and value each other. He gave me a lot to think about. Donald J. Trump is the poster child for negative behavior in this regard. He and his GOP enablers are purposefully and selfishly sowing the divisiveness in how treats and (de)values anyone that crosses him. What a role model.

41Forever Feb 18 2018 12:44 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

d'Kong76 wrote: Kiner, Murphy and Nelson... does Pastor Bob have a NRA sticker on his Lincoln? Not that I’m aware of. Did you know his name was Bob, or did you just guess correctly?

d'Kong76 Feb 18 2018 01:08 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lol, lucky guess. Hopefully he drives an Escalade and not a Navigator or it'll look like I'm stalking you!

Lefty Specialist Feb 18 2018 01:12 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

41Forever wrote: My pastor had some interesting thoughts this morning. The overriding issue isn’t the guns, though there is work to do there. It isn’t the problems diagnosing, treating and destigmatizing mental illness, though there is much, much to do there. It’s a culture fueled by violence and divisivness. We are quick to glorify violence. We are quick to label and declare people evil if we have different philosophies. There isn’t a government solution, though it can address some of the symptoms. It comes down to people individually and collectively, and how we treat each other and value each other. He gave me a lot to think about. Your pastor, unfortunately, is wrong. Other countries have violence and divisiveness. Other countries glorify violence because they get American movies and TV shows. Other countries have troubled, mentally ill people in much the same percentages that we do. Yet no other countries have the mass shooting problem we have. None. The difference is guns, specifically the weapons of mass destruction that are glorified by a segment of the population and wrapped in the warped interpretation of freedom. What needs to be done is to make NRA money as toxic as Harvey Weinstein's money. People need to be shamed. Fortunately the kids, who have a lot more common sense than most adults, are on this. They're already shaming Rubio. When you expose them and force people to renounce NRA money, they will lose their power. Will it work? I don't know. Maybe the pastor should discuss it next week. Odds are good there'll be another school shooting by then. There are 150,000 survivors of mass shootings in schools since 1999. Think about that for a second. That's 150,000 traumatized children and young adults who had a shooting happen in their school. And unfortunately, that number keeps going up. But we've done nothing to fix that problem. No wonder the kids are pissed.

Lefty Specialist Feb 18 2018 01:19 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

And of course, leave it to The Onion to have the appropriate headline. ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

41Forever Feb 18 2018 01:43 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

d'Kong76 wrote: Lol, lucky guess. Hopefully he drives an Escalade and not a Navigator or it'll look like I'm stalking you! I think it’s actually a Buick, but I haven’t seen him behind a wheel in a while!

41Forever Feb 18 2018 01:58 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: 41Forever wrote: My pastor had some interesting thoughts this morning. The overriding issue isn’t the guns, though there is work to do there. It isn’t the problems diagnosing, treating and destigmatizing mental illness, though there is much, much to do there. It’s a culture fueled by violence and divisivness. We are quick to glorify violence. We are quick to label and declare people evil if we have different philosophies. There isn’t a government solution, though it can address some of the symptoms. It comes down to people individually and collectively, and how we treat each other and value each other. He gave me a lot to think about. Your pastor, unfortunately, is wrong. Other countries have violence and divisiveness. Other countries glorify violence because they get American movies and TV shows. Other countries have troubled, mentally ill people in much the same percentages that we do. Yet no other countries have the mass shooting problem we have. None. The difference is guns, specifically the weapons of mass destruction that are glorified by a segment of the population and wrapped in the warped interpretation of freedom. What needs to be done is to make NRA money as toxic as Harvey Weinstein's money. People need to be shamed. Fortunately the kids, who have a lot more common sense than most adults, are on this. They're already shaming Rubio. When you expose them and force people to renounce NRA money, they will lose their power. Will it work? I don't know. Maybe the pastor should discuss it next week. Odds are good there'll be another school shooting by then. There are 150,000 survivors of mass shootings in schools since 1999. Think about that for a second. That's 150,000 traumatized children and young adults who had a shooting happen in their school. And unfortunately, that number keeps going up. But we've done nothing to fix that problem. No wonder the kids are pissed. The NRA doesn’t print money. It has money to use for lobbying because people contribute to it because they support what it does. If you change the culture, then the money for the NRA dies up and it loses its ability to pressure lawmakers. Or, if there are enough people who feel strongly about opposing it, they can raise a lot of money and lobby against it. Is there a group like that? Why is it not effective? Keep in mind, I hate guns. With a father in law enforcement, we had them in the house and I never touched one, much less fired one. I have no problem supporting laws closing loopholes, limiting the types of weapons that are available and increasing background checks. I’d ban them if I were king of the world. But i’d ban smoking, too, and save 480,000 US lives a year. I probably could not get people to support me on that, either. But we are slowly changing the culture on that.

Lefty Specialist Feb 18 2018 03:15 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Cigarettes have become unacceptable in most places. Guns need to become just as unacceptable. The Trump-appointed director of the CDC had to resign because she bought cigarette stocks. Would that guns were as much of an issue. There needs to be a culture change- it took 40 years for cigarettes to reach this stage. It's also taken about 40 years for guns to reach this stage, too. 40 years ago the NRA was a hunting and sporting association. It's something much different now. As for NRA money, it'll be interesting to see if the Russians really did launder money through them....that'd be two birds with one stone.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 18 2018 04:51 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

41Forever wrote: 41Forever wrote: My pastor had some interesting thoughts this morning. The overriding issue isn’t the guns, though there is work to do there. It isn’t the problems diagnosing, treating and destigmatizing mental illness, though there is much, much to do there. It’s a culture fueled by violence and divisivness. We are quick to glorify violence. We are quick to label and declare people evil if we have different philosophies. There isn’t a government solution, though it can address some of the symptoms. It comes down to people individually and collectively, and how we treat each other and value each other. He gave me a lot to think about. Your pastor, unfortunately, is wrong. Other countries have violence and divisiveness. Other countries glorify violence because they get American movies and TV shows. Other countries have troubled, mentally ill people in much the same percentages that we do. Yet no other countries have the mass shooting problem we have. None. The difference is guns, specifically the weapons of mass destruction that are glorified by a segment of the population and wrapped in the warped interpretation of freedom. What needs to be done is to make NRA money as toxic as Harvey Weinstein's money. People need to be shamed. Fortunately the kids, who have a lot more common sense than most adults, are on this. They're already shaming Rubio. When you expose them and force people to renounce NRA money, they will lose their power. Will it work? I don't know. Maybe the pastor should discuss it next week. Odds are good there'll be another school shooting by then. There are 150,000 survivors of mass shootings in schools since 1999. Think about that for a second. That's 150,000 traumatized children and young adults who had a shooting happen in their school. And unfortunately, that number keeps going up. But we've done nothing to fix that problem. No wonder the kids are pissed. The NRA doesn’t print money. It has money to use for lobbying because people contribute to it because they support what it does. If you change the culture, then the money for the NRA dies up and it loses its ability to pressure lawmakers. Or, if there are enough people who feel strongly about opposing it, they can raise a lot of money and lobby against it. Is there a group like that? Why is it not effective? Keep in mind, I hate guns. With a father in law enforcement, we had them in the house and I never touched one, much less fired one. I have no problem supporting laws closing loopholes, limiting the types of weapons that are available and increasing background checks. I’d ban them if I were king of the world. But i’d ban smoking, too, and save 480,000 US lives a year. I probably could not get people to support me on that, either. But we are slowly changing the culture on that. As soon as you blame this country's out of control gun violence on a so called culture of divisiveness, you yourself are promoting that divisiveness, using it as a poor excuse to avoid what's plainly obvious -- that it's the guns.. It's not a question of there being good and bad people in this country because people are essentially the same all over the world. Yet mass shootings don't ever happen in major advanced industrial nations like Germany, Japan or England, where it's as hard to get a gun as it is to get Plutonium for your DeLorean time machine. Mass shooting don't happen there because it's extremely difficult to get guns in the first place, and at the risk of harsh criminal penalties. So a little Occam's Razor here, instead of overthinking this to a point of absurdity that dovetails all too nicely with the GOP's bought and sold position on firearms. There'd be no mass shootings if the guns weren't available. It's as simple as that. Don't believe me? Just check out the rest of the world. And if there were severe restrictions on the population's ability to get those guns, the NRA's war chest would shrink dramatically, too. Divisiveness, my ass! Maybe we should instead teach everyone to love one another. That would solve the mass shooting crisis! Maybe that first [slang name for an extremely despicable person, generally a female; also synonymous with vagina; rhymes with "bunt", this being primarily a baseball forum] daughter, Ivanka Trump could tweet out to everyone to not shoot up their high schools with AR-15s. That'd do it. 41Forever wrote: Keep in mind, I hate guns.... I’d ban them if I were king of the world. Yeah, sure. Whatever. Easy to say when you're not the king of the world. All you could do is vote, and when the time came, you voted for Trump and the party against any form of gun control. The party and the president that repealed Obama's Executive Order imposing restrictions on the ability of persons with mental health issues to get guns. That's what you voted for. I guess banning guns isn't as important to you as banning health benefits for the poor and needy, or eliminating the social safety net altogether. But hey, why should ordinary Americans get social security benefits when Betsy Devos and the Koch Brothers need so much more money than they already have?

Lefty Specialist Feb 18 2018 06:24 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

[slang name for an extremely despicable person, generally a female; also synonymous with vagina; rhymes with "bunt", this being primarily a baseball forum] Okay, I'll admit it, that's the first thing I've laughed about in this thread.

Edgy MD Feb 18 2018 08:24 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Prediction: The president will see this as a chance to discredit the FBI and the investigations into his campaign's alleged involvement with Russian hijacking of our elections. I'm not seeing it. He doesn't have any reason to even try and make such a non-existent link. There is plenty of Hillary-innuendo to blame instead. Maybe hee'll claim that Bill introduced him to that hooker. [tweet]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/965075589274177536[/tweet] As predictable as the sun rising in the East.

Centerfield Feb 28 2018 11:53 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Shots fired at Dalton HS in Georgia. No one hurt, and details are emerging, but they say it was a teacher that barricaded himself into a classroom.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 28 2018 12:11 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Maybe arming teachers isn't the best idea.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 28 2018 12:17 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

We'll probably need to arm students to protect against armed teachers who go berserk.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 28 2018 12:33 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

We need to arm the janitors. They have the keys to every room

batmagadanleadoff Feb 28 2018 12:48 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Not just any janitors. Janitors with special skills Only the best.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 28 2018 12:51 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Of course, who needs keys with an AR-15?

Frayed Knot Feb 28 2018 02:16 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: We need to arm the janitors. They have the keys to every room [fimg=400]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/scrubs/images/e/e9/3x8_The_Fugitive.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161001223017[/fimg] [fimg=310]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/scrubs/images/9/9b/3x8_Janitor_acts.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100328065123[/fimg] I'm ready!!

Centerfield Mar 02 2018 08:58 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Two people shot in Central Michigan University. Gunman at large.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 02 2018 09:33 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 02 2018 09:47 AM

How terrible.

Edgy MD Mar 02 2018 09:42 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Guys, I'm pretty sure that's where 41's daughter goes to school.

MFS62 Mar 02 2018 10:03 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Guys, I'm pretty sure that's where 41's daughter goes to school. Yes, and his FB post says she's ok. Later

Edgy MD Mar 02 2018 10:15 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

That's great to hear. But, of course, OK is now a relative term.

MFS62 Mar 02 2018 10:19 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: That's great to hear. But, of course, OK is now a relative term. Here are more details, from his FB post: Caroline is OK. Thank you all for your concern. She's very touched that people are checking in and asking about her. It's comforting to be surrounded by such nice, caring people. The tragedy was on the other side of campus, and the students and staff are on lockdown for the time being. Later

seawolf17 Mar 02 2018 10:20 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: That's great to hear. But, of course, OK is now a relative term. Especially considering the reports are that the shooter is still out there.

Edgy MD Mar 02 2018 10:57 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

And she's a student leader for a frightened, traumatized community.

41Forever Mar 02 2018 11:00 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Thank you all for the concern. Appreciated.. Looks like this was a domestic incident. The shooter was a student, and the two people he shot were his parents. Unimaginable. Students have been on lock down. I'm not sure if that means they stay in the dorm, or stay in their dorm rooms. Like many dorms, the residents are mostly freshmen and sophomores and I can only believe they are very upset. My daughter is good at caring for and about them. She's been texting with updates.

cooby Mar 02 2018 11:30 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Whew, glad she's okay 41!

Lefty Specialist Mar 02 2018 12:16 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Jeez, glad she's okay. There is no end point on worrying about your kids.

Centerfield Mar 02 2018 03:17 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

First off, I’m glad all the 41’s are ok. That’s way too close to home. Secondly, I am legitimately hearing things like “It’s not a real school shooting. Only 2 people died and they weren’t even students.”

41Forever Mar 03 2018 08:37 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Shooter is in custody and the school has lifted the lockdown. Headed to pick up my daughter in a could minutes. Will have some more details to share in a little bit.

41Forever Mar 03 2018 08:35 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Daughter came home today. She's an RA, so they were kept pretty busy throughout the day and night. Even though the shooting was across campus, railroad tracks run behind both buildings and the young man was seen on the tracks, so her dorm had additional protection. Kids were pretty upset. But also impressed at how the staff -- all kinds -- stepped up. Still getting information as the investigation continues, but it appears the young man either had severe mental wellness challenges or was subjected to another issue that was affecting his coherence. He told staff the night before that he thought people were trying to hurt him. His parents came to take home, checked him out of the hospital and were helping pack when he somehow got his hands on his policeman father's revolver. This is incredibly sad. It's also terribly disappointing to have seen people jump to conclusions and try to use this to promote an agenda before any of the facts were known.

Nymr83 Mar 06 2018 05:34 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Dick's Sporting Goods, a national retailer who decided to self-impose a rule against gun sales to people under 21, is being sued. It's hard not to see the merits here. Could a liquor store decide they don't want to sell to anyone under 25 because of all the young and irresponsible people who get behind the wheel afterwards?

cooby Mar 06 2018 05:48 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

41 that is indeed a sad story. Who on earth is suing Dicks?

Nymr83 Mar 06 2018 07:01 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

cooby wrote: 41 that is indeed a sad story. Who on earth is suing Dicks? A 20 year old who wanted to buy and was refused. 50/50 that his father or uncle or family friend is an NRA guy and he agreed to be the "test case."

Ceetar Mar 06 2018 07:31 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Nymr83 wrote: cooby wrote: 41 that is indeed a sad story. Who on earth is suing Dicks? A 20 year old who wanted to buy and was refused. 50/50 that his father or uncle or family friend is an NRA guy and he agreed to be the "test case." I definitely lean towards 'ban all guns' and agree this could be a 'test case', but I can't help but be on his side. I despise this sliding scale of adulthood. Either you are, or you aren't. Especially considering the government will happily take you and hand you a gun the second you turn 18, to the point of actively recruiting minors in advance.

Edgy MD Mar 06 2018 08:02 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

There's a always been a sliding scale. Allowing somebody to cross the street is not the same level of responsibility as allowing somebody to drive a car, or rent a car, or buy a beer, to hunt without supervision, to adopt a child, or to run for senator. Or to buy an ArmaLite. The science on this is incredible. The judgment center on the male brain isn't fully formed until at least 25. A young man can do almost anything. He can win a war for you, he can save children from a burning building, he can build dams and bridges, compose symphonies, or direct the greatest film ever known. The main thing he really can't do is make decisions for himself responsibly.

Edgy MD Mar 06 2018 08:11 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

And the government doesn't really "hand you a gun" at 18. It is nothing so cavalier. If you are enlisted and so assigned, you are trained on how to use a gun, supervised in its use, and made to put it away and secure it apart from its ammo when not in use. We should all keep our guns as responsibly and securely as the U.S. Army.

metsmarathon Mar 06 2018 08:15 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

also, the training is hard and if you can't handle it, you flunk out, and they take away the gun they just "gave" you.

Ceetar Mar 06 2018 08:27 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: And the government doesn't really "hand you a gun" at 18. It is nothing so cavalier. If you are enlisted and so assigned, you are trained on how to use a gun, supervised in its use, and made to put it away and secure it apart from its ammo when not in use. We should all keep our guns as responsibly and securely as the U.S. Army. and potentially told to murder people for nebulous reasons sometimes, for political gain, "because I said so". You can be sent off to war zones, be put on a border where your job is to treat all incoming Cubans as practically hostile invaders. You bring back mental illness and trauma, often poorly diagnosed or treated. All this for decisions you made at a recruiting fair when you were 17 and fed a line about patriotism and honor? It always feels very exploitative. I feel for some of those guys. But like, you can get a criminal record for letting your friend drink a pint of beer in your own house at 19. The car companies don't want to deal with you, or offset their costs on you because they can. It's fine. a minimum age to buy a gun is still a good thing, even if I disagree with the legality of it. but it's only the barest minimum of the problem. It reeks of treating the symptoms since the Florida shooter fit that mold. I get that there is lots of interesting science around decision making in young people. I think there needs to be a lot more, and without going down a rabbit hole right now I believe I read something that suggest they it was more judgement on impulse and that given enough distance from the question and time to think about it they typically do make the right judgement. This also casts a lot of bs on the idea of trying minors as adults depending on the crime. If anything, it should be the other way around. Maybe not a "you're an adult at 21" but maybe we need to establish a legal 'inbetween' period? like 17-22 or something? I think it's an interesting sociological question is all, perhaps not specifically pertaining to guns. We make so many of our major life decisions young. Where to go to college, what to major in, where to go after college? it informs so much of who we become and we might not be operating a full capacity?

Edgy MD Mar 06 2018 08:30 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: And the government doesn't really "hand you a gun" at 18. It is nothing so cavalier. If you are enlisted and so assigned, you are trained on how to use a gun, supervised in its use, and made to put it away and secure it apart from its ammo when not in use. We should all keep our guns as responsibly and securely as the U.S. Army. and potentially told to murder people for nebulous reasons sometimes, for political gain, "because I said so". You're swinging to an unrelated and facile argument about the ethics of war. I hear you. But that's not the subject here.

cooby Mar 06 2018 09:35 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Ha! This conversation reminds me of the time that my totally uninterested son invited a recruiter to stop by. Maybe 10th or 11th grade. (We coulda killed him) Anyway the guy asks T what he did in his spare time and T said ‘take guitar lessons’ ‘ Cool! you could be in a band!’ Hello? No time in the Gulf wars ?

batmagadanleadoff Mar 07 2018 09:26 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

All in the American Oligarch Family Parkland students diss crooked sec'y of education Betsy Devos in anticipation of her visit to site of most recent school shooting massacre. Are there any grizzly bears on the Parkland campus? Also, special counsel Mueller hones in on sketchy Seychelles meeting involving crooked Betsy's crooked brother Erik Prince. Now there's a guy (Prince) who you just know is as dirty and sleazy as they come.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 07 2018 01:48 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

batmagadanleadoff wrote: All in the American Oligarch Family Parkland students diss crooked sec'y of education Betsy Devos in anticipation of her visit to site of most recent school shooting massacre. Are there any grizzly bears on the Parkland campus? Also.... UPDATE! Uninvited count of montefusco Betsy Devos cuts short her own presser and walks off stage when Parkland students razz her with questions punt Betsy can't answer. Parkland students rule.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 07 2018 01:54 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: All in the American Oligarch Family Parkland students diss crooked sec'y of education Betsy Devos in anticipation of her visit to site of most recent school shooting massacre. Are there any grizzly bears on the Parkland campus? Also.... UPDATE! Uninvited count of montefusco Betsy Devos cuts short her own presser and walks off stage when Parkland students razz her with questions punt Betsy can't answer. Parkland students rule. I give the students nine stars out of 10. I deducted a star because the students forgot to throw dogshit and rotten tomatoes at the count sec'y of education, Betsy Devos.

MFS62 Mar 09 2018 05:50 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The NRA members are fighting sanity: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-m ... ll-brknews Later

metsmarathon Mar 17 2018 03:40 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

walk up not out is bullshit victim blaming, isn't it?

Edgy MD Mar 17 2018 05:28 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Moreover, it's obvious hijacking. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was hatched in Russia.

Ceetar Mar 20 2018 02:07 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

metsmarathon wrote: walk up not out is bullshit victim blaming, isn't it? worse. It's also "other-shaming" (there's probably a real word for that) in that it tries to assert that the 'quiet kid' is sitting alone because he's damaged and that not conforming to cliques/groups/etc is a sign of a mass shooter. meanwhile I'm getting flak in a local facebook group for deriding someone claiming 1 dead and 2 critically injured is a victory because a security guard killed the kid. I need to get out of this group. I thought joining the county group would be good for like "what's happening nearby! fun events for kids!" but it's mostly "damn jews in Mahwah ruining the property value" and misogynistic jokes

Benjamin Grimm Mar 20 2018 02:08 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

That sounds like a bad group!

metsmarathon Mar 20 2018 03:19 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: walk up not out is bullshit victim blaming, isn't it? worse. It's also "other-shaming" (there's probably a real word for that) in that it tries to assert that the 'quiet kid' is sitting alone because he's damaged and that not conforming to cliques/groups/etc is a sign of a mass shooter. no doubt, the victim blaming is just the tip of the iceberg. meanwhile I'm getting flak in a local facebook group for deriding someone claiming 1 dead and 2 critically injured is a victory because a security guard killed the kid. I need to get out of this group. I thought joining the county group would be good for like "what's happening nearby! fun events for kids!" but it's mostly "damn jews in Mahwah ruining the property value" and misogynistic jokes security guard killing shooter is a reasonably ok outcome (better would have been shot but did not kill) but it should be clear to any reasonable person that any shooting in a school is a loss. a major loss. a victory would be not having to worry about anyone bringing a gun to school anymore.

Nymr83 Mar 20 2018 04:22 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

You'll never not have to worry about it at all, you can only hope to reduce it. You'll never convince me armed security is a bad idea or bad use of our money compared to all the other things it gets spent on. I would be happier if there was no shooting at all and they caught the guy ahead of time. But if someone does open fire, id actually prefer they come out of it dead.

metsmarathon Mar 20 2018 08:05 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I actually do, generally think that an armed guard at a school is a possibly good thing. But here’s the thing. Their presence hadn’t been a deterrent on the last two shootings, now was it? So there goes that lie. (Not saying it was yours). And more guns in the hands of lesser trained persons is only a recipe for disaster. But turning schools into fortresses isn’t going to be the solution to school shootings, because school shootings is only a symptom of the real problem - gun violence. And we’ve made it so that gun violence can be so much more effective that it ever used to be. So that if we uparmor all of our schools, the be mass shootings will move somewhere else. Malls. Churches. Movie theaters. Baseball games. Concerts. And we’ve seen all of those, now haven’t we? So yeah. Armed guards at schools is fine and unfortunate. But it isn’t the solution. It’s like saying you’ve solved suicides by building taller fences around the bridges.

Ceetar Apr 05 2018 02:54 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

[url]https://www.theonion.com/report-this-not-a-gun-1825021641 The Onion releases a helpful chart for law enforcement.

Lefty Specialist Apr 23 2018 11:19 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

So the guy who shot up a Waffle House in Nashville, killing four, was a well-known looney toon who had his weapons confiscated and his privilege to buy a firearm revoked by the FBI after a number of incidents including wanting to enter the White House and claiming that Taylor Swift was stalking him. But since this is America, those precious weapons taken from him were given to a family member, his father. His father then turned around and gave them back to him, including the AR-15 he used. The father should be sued so that he is penniless and imprisoned for life as an accessory to multiple murders. He's a guilty as if he'd pulled the trigger himself.

Centerfield Apr 23 2018 11:42 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Not nearly as much news coverage as one might expect for this sort of thing.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2018 11:48 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

A lot of people are becoming jaded. The guy who charged the shooter and saved countless lives is denying that he's a "hero." He's the very definition of a hero.

Ceetar Apr 23 2018 11:59 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: Not nearly as much news coverage as one might expect for this sort of thing. guess they're having trouble tying to Islam.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2018 12:07 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Or because the victims were black or brown:

Lefty Specialist Apr 23 2018 12:12 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: Not nearly as much news coverage as one might expect for this sort of thing. Single-digit number of deaths and, yes, no Muslim terrorism angle. He was a 'sovereign citizen' who basically believed that US laws did not apply to him. He's still on the run as of now and I would expect him to die in a blaze of gunfire from authorities.

Lefty Specialist Apr 23 2018 12:15 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Benjamin Grimm wrote: A lot of people are becoming jaded. The guy who charged the shooter and saved countless lives is denying that he's a "hero." He's the very definition of a hero. He jumped him while the gunman was changing cartridges. Something to think about when people complain that banning high-capacity cartridges somehow infringes on their god-given gun freedoms.

Edgy MD Apr 23 2018 12:26 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Suspect in custody.

Ceetar Apr 23 2018 12:32 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Suspect in custody. Lefty Specialist wrote: Centerfield wrote: He's still on the run as of now and I would expect him to die in a blaze of gunfire from authorities. I guess you forgot the part about him being white, and not a black guy unlocking his own front door.

cooby Apr 23 2018 03:32 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Maybe we should start a "Mass homicide with vehicle thread" :(

Nymr83 Apr 23 2018 04:16 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

cooby wrote: Maybe we should start a "Mass homicide with vehicle thread" :( Ban cars! Down with AAA lobbyists!

Lefty Specialist Apr 23 2018 06:10 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Try driving a gun to work then.

Nymr83 Apr 23 2018 06:13 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Try protecting your home with a car. And if you say call the police I say take the bus.

Gwreck Apr 23 2018 06:56 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

As you know, a gun is not needed to protect one’s home.

Ceetar Apr 24 2018 07:10 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

cooby wrote: Maybe we should start a "Mass homicide with vehicle thread" :( they're non-congruent because we _need_ cars in our society and they serve a purpose. But it's worth remembering in however many years it is when someone's pushing for self-driving cars and people are clinging to driving even though we have a workable solution to save thousands of lives. A lot of the same, bogus, arguments will be used as are used to justify many of the guns today.

metsmarathon Apr 24 2018 07:31 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

cars are more heavily regulated than guns, are used more for both work and leisure, and are indispensible to far more americans' daily lives.

Lefty Specialist Apr 24 2018 08:25 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Gwreck wrote: As you know, a gun is not needed to protect one’s home. ADT works fine for us. And the chances of shooting a relative accidentally or in the heat of an argument drop dramatically. Of course, I'd be fine with licensing, registering and tracking every gun sold, like they do with cars. And having a test you have to pass to be allowed to use one, with that license being renewed every few years. And a minimum age to purchase one. And extensive safety equipment like cars so that a gun can sense danger and avoid killing someone. And the ability for consumers to sue for products that cause death and injury, like the car companies have to live with, as does every other product in America with the sole exception of guns. So yeah, I'd like to treat cars and guns equally.

Centerfield Apr 24 2018 09:13 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: Gwreck wrote: As you know, a gun is not needed to protect one’s home. ADT works fine for us. And the chances of shooting a relative accidentally or in the heat of an argument drop dramatically. Of course, I'd be fine with licensing, registering and tracking every gun sold, like they do with cars. And having a test you have to pass to be allowed to use one, with that license being renewed every few years. And a minimum age to purchase one. And extensive safety equipment like cars so that a gun can sense danger and avoid killing someone. And the ability for consumers to sue for products that cause death and injury, like the car companies have to live with, as does every other product in America with the sole exception of guns. So yeah, I'd like to treat cars and guns equally. This. Exactly this. The test should be written and in the field, like they do for cars. The guns should be inspected at sites authorized by the state every two years. Any gun not meeting safety regulations should be banned from public use. So yeah, even before you get into the utility argument, I'm all for treating guns like cars.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 24 2018 09:22 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Plus the agency charged with inspecting them should provide a hellish customer-service experience, making people think twice before assembling dozens of them. Oh and the licenses should be surprisingly expensive to get. I mean, eye-popping.

Centerfield Apr 24 2018 09:56 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Plus the agency charged with inspecting them should provide a hellish customer-service experience, making people think twice before assembling dozens of them. Oh and the licenses should be surprisingly expensive to get. I mean, eye-popping. As well as the insurance.

Vic Sage Apr 24 2018 10:37 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

of course, the 2nd Amendment folks will argue that, unlike car ownership, gun ownership is a constitutional right and so the same level of regulation is illegal. But, of course, they are wrong. It's not illegal; it's just that such laws are subject to strict scrutiny and so must be narrowly tailored and the least restrictive means of achieving a compelling state interest. I think there are a whole range of restrictions on private gun ownership that could survive such a test. But, so far, the gun lobby has succeeded in preventing any such regulations to be legislated, much less tested in court.

Edgy MD Apr 24 2018 10:46 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Plus the agency charged with inspecting them should provide a hellish customer-service experience, making people think twice before assembling dozens of them. Oh and the licenses should be surprisingly expensive to get. I mean, eye-popping. As well as the insurance. Well, the best thing about insurance is that it need be neither high nor low, but rather set by the market. But if one owner's bloodbath leads to millions being paid out by his or her insurer, the whole pool's rates will go up. So it would be in the interests of the whole pool to support legislation that keeps the incidence of such events down. Insurance rates trigger more responsible ownership and support for regulation. At least, it traditionally has with car ownership and home ownership.

Lefty Specialist Apr 24 2018 12:57 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I don't think MY rates should go up because someone else shoots someone with a gun. Gun owners should bear that cost. If everyone knows where a gun is based on full registration, then they should have that factored into their homeowner's insurance. More guns, higher rates. Health insurance costs should go up too, but that's so screwed up right now that we need a clean slate there anyway.

Edgy MD Apr 24 2018 01:07 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: I don't think MY rates should go up because someone else shoots someone with a gun. That's the idea.

Chad Ochoseis Apr 24 2018 11:49 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: I don't think MY rates should go up because someone else shoots someone with a gun. That's the idea. A topic near and dear to my heart. I've been trying to get an article written on requiring liability coverage for gun owners for one of the nontechnical actuarial magazines or journals. I wrote a thousand word post on reasons why it wouldn't work as easily as people would like, and then deleted it because it was getting too wonky even for a wonk like me. But what much of it comes down to is that -> Insurance doesn't, won't, and shouldn't cover intentional acts, so if I shoot you intentionally with my gun and you sue me, insurance wouldn't cover it -> Insurance could cover my liability if I carelessly leave my gun available to you, and you take it and shoot someone else. This happened with Sandy Hook, where Nancy Lanza's estate settled with the victims' families for $1.5M, which was the limits of her homeowners policy. But more often than not, courts have been unwilling to hold gun owners liable for not storing their guns safely. -> Every year, there is something on the order of 10,000-15,000 gun deaths, and 75,000-100,000 gun injuries. The number of personal liability insurance policies in force in the US is something on the order of 80,000,000. So, especially considering that many of those deaths and injuries wouldn't be covered by insurance, the frequency of losses due to gun deaths and injuries is extremely low. It's true that any one gun casualty can cost millions of dollars, but insurance policies have caps on what they will pay for any one occurrence. These caps generally range from $100K to $1M, plus legal costs. What this all means is that liability insurance rates aren't affected much at all by gun violence. So even if gun ownership were to be factored into the price of homeowners coverage, it would barely matter.

Nymr83 Apr 25 2018 12:18 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: I don't think MY rates should go up because someone else shoots someone with a gun. I don't think MY rates should go up because other idiots got into a car accident, but the area you live in is a factor in the rate calculation even though you didnt cause any of those accidents. as to other things said here, i think licensing is a good idea in principle, but in practice liberal jurisdictions have used it as a defacto ban. tell me that the license will be as available as a driver's license (ie take a test, waste a day at DMV, pay a reasonable fee) and i'd be all for it. but unless it were federally administered, which presents its own issues, too many locals would use it as a way to try and ban guns. And the ability for consumers to sue for products that cause death and injury, like the car companies have to live with, as does every other product in America with the sole exception of guns. you can't sue Ford if i intentionally drive my pickup into you. you can sue Ford if the brakes don't work causing me to hit you. is it not the case that you could sue a gun manufacturer if lets say the gun fires when the trigger isnt pulled? i'd think you could.

cooby Apr 25 2018 06:53 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I don’t know how this morphed into an insurance discussion but I was talking about the guy in Toronto

Benjamin Grimm May 18 2018 09:33 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Here we go again. At least eight killed in a shooting at a high school in Santa Fe.

Edgy MD May 18 2018 10:22 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

To clarify (for whatever that's worth), it's Santa Fe, Texas, in Galveston County, not Santa Fe, New Mexico. Strangely, they had a false alarm followed by anonymous threats back in late February/early March.

metirish May 18 2018 11:27 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Just another day in America , 8 dead? will barely even raise to "Thoughts and Prayers" status.

batmagadanleadoff May 18 2018 11:36 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Big deal. This happens in England and in Japan every other day. How long until that count firearms expert Betsy DeVos calls for arming teachers?

Fman99 May 18 2018 08:59 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Just the saddest thing in the whole world.

cooby May 25 2018 09:47 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Prepare to be sadder. One today in an Indiana Middle School.

Edgy MD Jun 28 2018 10:04 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Many of my colleagues are veterans of The Baltimore Sun, from back when it was a robust, city-defining journal. One of the men killed today in Annapolis was my boss' friend and former colleague. I'm sure a lot of my co-workers lost someone today. Enemies of the people, indeed.

cooby Jun 29 2018 06:01 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My niece works there. She is okay, but no word of whether she knows the victims

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 29 2018 07:51 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My first job was with a small newspaper in Maryland -- much smaller than the Capital whose writers I envied! The stories I've read make it seem as though this dirtbag was hurt by something published about him (which by the way was true and confirmed in court) but I have no doubt that at some level the "president" and Republican party and the voters supporting them, totally encourage tragedies like this by legitimizing this idea that newspapers routinely publish lies are "enemies of the people" and of course fight for the right for any dickhead with a grudge to solve his problems by shooting people dead.

MFS62 Jun 29 2018 08:15 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Hannity blamed Maxine Walters' speech about active dissent. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sea ... 40213.html Later

Vic Sage Jun 29 2018 08:19 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Milo Yiannopoulos: “I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight.” ...but he was just joking, guys! http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39471 ... st-a-troll

Edgy MD Jun 29 2018 11:20 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My boss' friend, who you may have read about by now, was editor Rob Hiaasen. He said the newsroom could suddenly turn into a den of assholes, as people could be when they work under hard deadlines and existential pressure, but Hiaasen never went there, so on those days, folks gravitated toward him. He was 6'5" with a Tom Selleck-like bearing, so people loved to talk to him, and writers would ask him to partner with them on a story where they couldn't get folks to talk. Make no mistake, when journalists are killed, a piece of the First Amendment dies with them. Though nobody could get in touch with him, and it was pretty obvious he was a victim, his friends and family held out hope until his death was made official at 9:30. I was remembering the friends we held out hope for beyond all rationality after 9/11. His wife was a journalist too. It was her birthday.

Centerfield Jun 29 2018 12:04 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I feel sick. So sorry for your boss and all loved ones of Rob.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2018 12:04 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

His brother is the very famous author, Carl Hiassen.

cooby Jun 29 2018 04:05 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Just found out one of the victims was my niece’s assistant. My niece was away from the office that day :(

MFS62 Jun 29 2018 07:06 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Sorry, Cooby. Later

cooby Jun 29 2018 07:37 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

It’s has had quite a chilling effect on the whole family. Quite literally we realize how close she came to disaster, while also dealing with her grief and the usual general shock of this type of terror

cooby Jun 29 2018 07:49 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Isn’t it odd that two of us here have indirect but close ties to the victims. So sad for my niece

Edgy MD Jun 29 2018 09:44 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Yeah, part of what they bank on is the idea that that the horror that is visited upon our nation is all in the abstract. It's on the news but forgotten soon and indistinguishable from all the other fiction channels. And just in case, they'll reinforce the idea that the news is fiction too. But it's breathing down your neck and it's breathing down mine.

seawolf17 Jun 30 2018 09:08 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, part of what they bank on is the idea that that the horror that is visited upon our nation is all in the abstract. It's on the news but forgotten soon and indistinguishable from all the other fiction channels. And just in case, they'll reinforce the idea that the news is fiction too. But it's breathing down your neck and it's breathing down mine. Right? All of this stuff is always "somewhere else." Until it's not. But there have been stories through the years of a politician who's suddently LGBTQ-friendly, for example, because his daughter is gay or his son is trans. Well, where was that compassion earlier? Where was the humanity? We're only human when it's real? (I honestly thought that Steve Scalise getting shot directly would change things, actually. Guess not.)

Chad Ochoseis Jul 23 2018 07:49 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

It's not just the US anymore. [url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44919771 This happened more or less right in front of the AirBnB where my girlfriend and I stayed when we were in Toronto three weeks ago. They fired six bullets into the cafe where we hung out and had coffee on July 4. This is all getting too close to home.

Edgy MD Jul 23 2018 11:03 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Shit, I'm sorry. That's how I felt about Comet Pizza & Ping Pong and that situation was diffused with no injuries. The gunman was stupid but not crazy. Chad Ochoseis wrote: It's not just the US anymore. There are two more or less accurate ways to read this sentence.

metirish Aug 08 2018 12:47 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My work this morning....I was in BLS training in a different building, and like other employee's there was no overhead announcement to staff, most of us heard about this from texts etc. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-metr ... story.html

Edgy MD Aug 08 2018 01:42 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Too close for comfort. Glad you're OK.

cooby Aug 08 2018 04:56 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

metirish wrote: My work this morning....I was in BLS training in a different building, and like other employee's there was no overhead announcement to staff, most of us heard about this from texts etc. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-metr ... story.html Very very sad :(

TransMonk Sep 19 2018 04:26 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Suspect killed, 4 others wounded in Wisconsin office shooting I worked in the office building next door to this one 15 years ago.

Lefty Specialist Oct 27 2018 11:59 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Trump laments 'hate in our country' after synagogue murders, says armed guards would have helped Yes, the President of the United States blamed the victims for not surrounding a bris with armed guards. Words fail.

Mets Willets Point Oct 27 2018 12:04 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: Trump laments 'hate in our country' after synagogue murders, says armed guards would have helped Yes, the President of the United States blamed the victims for not surrounding a bris with armed guards. Words fail. And the white supremacist terrorist shot and wounded three armed police officers.

MFS62 Oct 30 2018 08:14 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Pence pours salt on the wound. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mike-pe ... 14030.html Later

Lefty Specialist Oct 31 2018 09:06 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The mayor told him not to come. Local Jewish leaders told him not to come. The governor and all other elected officials stayed away. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell suddenly had 'other commitments'. No one greeted him at the airport. But he went anyway. The only upside is that he had less time for one of his Nurenberg rallies.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 31 2018 03:27 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

I've been in Las Vegas this week for a conference. last night I got into it with a poor 26 year old colleague at a poolside party over the latest "enemy of the people " remark. cannot believe there are Americans who are not appalled at the very notion, or can somehow compartmentalize the sentiment. I don't think this guy, who I like a lot irl, has any notion of how abhorrent the president is and how aggressively unamerican the remark is. I was literally sick at heart

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 31 2018 03:40 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

poops wrong tthread

Edgy MD Oct 31 2018 06:14 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I've been in Las Vegas this week for a conference. last night I got into it with a poor 26 year old colleague at a poolside party over the latest "enemy of the people " remark. cannot believe there are Americans who are not appalled at the very notion, or can somehow compartmentalize the sentiment. I don't think this guy, who I like a lot irl, has any notion of how abhorrent the president is and how aggressively unamerican the remark is. I was literally sick at heart You still work for a media outlet, right? People who shrug that off need to be shown crime photos of the Capital Gazette massacre.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 31 2018 10:48 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

yes he works in media too! I definitely lost my shit though.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 08 2018 07:00 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Twelve people murdered last night in a mass shooting at a dance bar in Thousand Oaks, California. And the beat goes on...

metirish Nov 08 2018 07:06 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Heartbreaking to see a father interviewed at length on CNN hoping his son survived this and "maybe lost his phone and can't contact us, or is one of the injured" , tragic how this has become so fucking normal.

Centerfield Nov 08 2018 08:05 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

metirish wrote: Heartbreaking to see a father interviewed at length on CNN hoping his son survived this and "maybe lost his phone and can't contact us, or is one of the injured" , tragic how this has become so fucking normal. Makes me sick to my stomach.

Centerfield Nov 08 2018 01:52 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The video of the grief-stricken father. Oh my god. I can't handle it.

Rockin' Doc Nov 11 2018 07:35 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

The California father's personal grief and painful anguish was heart wrenching. It is a scene that the media is all too eager to use to gain ratings for their news shows. The phenomenon of the media using tragedy and personal grief to sell their productions has only gotten worse in the 37 years since Don Henley released "Dirty Laundry". Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry

Centerfield Nov 12 2018 08:30 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Rockin' Doc wrote: The California father's personal grief and painful anguish was heart wrenching. It is a scene that the media is all too eager to use to gain ratings for their news shows. The phenomenon of the media using tragedy and personal grief to sell their productions has only gotten worse in the 37 years since Don Henley released "Dirty Laundry". Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry Normally I'd agree with you. But this tragedy isn't an accident, or an act of God, or some sort of fluke. These shootings are a phenomenon. A plague that is exclusive to our nation. We are at war with the NRA, and the lobbyists that buy these politicians. This is the very real effect of there being a shit ton of guns around. And the reason for that is the NRA.

Edgy MD Nov 12 2018 08:38 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Yeah, sometimes I feel like testimony like that is something I'm obliged to listen to, however painful.

Rockin' Doc Nov 12 2018 07:22 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: Rockin' Doc wrote: The California father's personal grief and painful anguish was heart wrenching. It is a scene that the media is all too eager to use to gain ratings for their news shows. The phenomenon of the media using tragedy and personal grief to sell their productions has only gotten worse in the 37 years since Don Henley released "Dirty Laundry". Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry Normally I'd agree with you. But this tragedy isn't an accident, or an act of God, or some sort of fluke. These shootings are a phenomenon. A plague that is exclusive to our nation. We are at war with the NRA, and the lobbyists that buy these politicians. This is the very real effect of there being a shit ton of guns around. And the reason for that is the NRA. I agree with you that the mass shooting that have become so common in America need to be addressed with more than lip service from elected officials. I am an avid hunter and outdoorsman, but I refuse to give a penny to the NRA. Their self serving policies are abhorrent and unconscionable in my view.

Centerfield Nov 13 2018 09:57 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

That's great to hear. Gun owners who don't support the NRA agenda. I'm from upstate NY and I understand that gun owners don't want to abolish gun rights. Still, most people I know would not object to common sense gun control. Licensing, background checks, training, inspection, registration. All of these things can help prevent senseless deaths. RD, you sound like you're pretty stable, the only blemish being your unwavering support of a baseball franchise in NY that makes no commitment to winning. I'm sure you'd have no problem passing all of these checks.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 13 2018 11:00 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

We had a shooting last night here in Albuquerque. A guy went into the warehouse where he worked, shot 3 people and later killed himself after he escaped. The victims were in the hospital last news I got, thankfully no one was killed, as of yet. Because it was only 3 people and no casualties, it probably wasn't much of a blip on anyone's radar outside our little town. America in 2k18.

Lefty Specialist Nov 13 2018 11:16 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Centerfield wrote: That's great to hear. Gun owners who don't support the NRA agenda. I'm from upstate NY and I understand that gun owners don't want to abolish gun rights. Still, most people I know would not object to common sense gun control. Licensing, background checks, training, inspection, registration. All of these things can help prevent senseless deaths. RD, you sound like you're pretty stable, the only blemish being your unwavering support of a baseball franchise in NY that makes no commitment to winning. I'm sure you'd have no problem passing all of these checks. And a halt to the sale of military weapons to civilians.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 13 2018 11:28 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

A Boy Named Seo wrote: We had a shooting last night here in Albuquerque.... Albuquerque? Bring us back some goodies from the Dog House.

Rockin' Doc Nov 16 2018 08:09 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Lefty Specialist wrote: Centerfield wrote: That's great to hear. Gun owners who don't support the NRA agenda. I'm from upstate NY and I understand that gun owners don't want to abolish gun rights. Still, most people I know would not object to common sense gun control. Licensing, background checks, training, inspection, registration. All of these things can help prevent senseless deaths. RD, you sound like you're pretty stable, the only blemish being your unwavering support of a baseball franchise in NY that makes no commitment to winning. I'm sure you'd have no problem passing all of these checks. And a halt to the sale of military weapons to civilians. Definitely. I am in favor of banning the sales of automatic weapons. There should be a limit on the magazine capacity on all fire arms (particularly) semi-automatic weapons. There needs to be intensive background checks and registration of all fire arms sales. Unfortunately, that is not the way the world works at least not in the USA. I understand that I am an outlier, so to speak, amongst my hunting brethren, but I fully believe we need to do a much better job of limiting the availability of firearms that are essentially manufactured for the sole purpose of killing other humans. I don't care what the NRA or anyone else says, but an AK-47 (or an SKS) are not hunting rifles and that was never their intent when they were produced.

Centerfield Dec 14 2018 09:52 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

Today is the 6th anniversary of Sandy Hook. I'm seeing posts on Facebook and twitter. I know it's cowardly, but I'm scrolling fast through them. I just don't have the strength to read them. I can't even imagine the pain. I know it's important to honor their memory. To keep fighting in their name. But it's so hard. Beautiful little kids.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2018 09:57 AM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

don't feel bad. Don't you know they faked the whole thing?

cooby Dec 17 2018 06:01 PM Re: Mass Shootings 2017 and 2018

My niece is co person of the year , on the cover of Time Magazine as a survivor of a mass shooting. What a sad way to get your 10 minutes :(