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A-P WTF? Thread

Rotblatt Mar 23 2006 08:03 AM

From [url=http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060323/SPORTS01/603230341/1108/SPORTS01]The Journal News[/url]: ]"I think I'll hit second because I've been hitting there,'' Beltran said. "I like to bunt and get the runner over.'' Or you could try, you know, NOT making an out. WTF?

Yancy Street Gang Mar 23 2006 09:20 AM

Sounds like he needs a slap in the head. Of course, his manager probably likes that way of thinking.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 23 2006 09:29 AM

We all know bunting is for losers, but I wouldn't mind seeing Beltran take less of the so-called "pressure" of hitting 3rd in this order, at least until he gets his O game going again. Getting him out of 3rd actually opens up a lot of better lineup options than not, IMO.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 23 2006 09:31 AM

Yeah, I don't object to him batting second. I just don't like his reasoning.

Rotblatt Mar 23 2006 09:34 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Yeah, I don't object to him batting second. I just don't like his reasoning. That was my thought too. I had a "Sweet, Beltran's on board!" moment followed by a "Whaaa?" moment. Why can't Beltran be like Wright, who said something like "I'll take the same approach no matter where I hit"?

Edgy DC Mar 23 2006 10:01 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 23 2006 10:31 AM

I think he's probably just trying to say on-board-type things. Corporate buzz-speak. Howard Johnson, when he starting cracking the league leaderboard, was trying not to sound like a big-head overswinging monster, and said, "The important thing is I'm not going to let the homerun take away the bunt." Of course, though he wasn't a bad bunter, he rarely bunted before he became a slugger and he rarely bunted after. His career sacrifice hit line looks like this. 1982 1 1983 1 1984 4 1985 1 1986 1 1987 0 (The year his power matured) 1988 2 1989 0 1990 0 1991 0 1992 0 1993 0 1994 0 1995 0 While I imagine a Carlos Beltran in the two-hole under Willie Randolph (rather than Davey Johnson) will get 2-5 sacrifice hits this season, most of them will probably be of the variety of bunting for a hit with moving the runner over as the alternative beneficient outcome should the bunt single fail. I think most of his four sacrifices from last season fall into that variety.

HahnSolo Mar 23 2006 10:10 AM

]Of course, though he wasn't a bad bunter, he rarely bunted before he became a slugger and he rarely bunted after. The one time we really needed him to get a bunt down, he didn't do it.

Elster88 Mar 23 2006 10:15 AM

Do you have any complaints? *pause* I didn't think so. ______________________________ A failed attempt led to the greatest comeback in baseball history. If the bunt had been executed we may have missed that moment. See, bunting is for losers even when done properly.

Methead Mar 23 2006 10:16 AM

I think any player with both power and speed needs to keep the threat of a bunt fresh in the oppositions minds, whether he ever bunts or not.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 23 2006 10:19 AM

I agree with that. I have no objection to Beltran bunting (for a single) a few times a season if the situation calls for it. (Such as, if the infield is aligned properly, or the pitching matchup is more favorable for the guy hitting behind him.

Rockin' Doc Mar 24 2006 07:18 AM

I'm all for Beltran batting in the second slot and allowing Wright to hit third in the line up. Bunting for a hit when the defense is susceptible to it is fine, but I'm not a big fan of surrendering outs with sacrifice bunts too often.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 25 2006 08:59 AM

Mr. "Do Whatever It Takes to Win" yesterday batted third and bunted with 2 on and nobody out in the first. Papers note he was safe, as if that were an accomplishment.

Frayed Knot Mar 25 2006 09:58 AM

I saw a replay of that bunt, and his actions were more like he was bunting for a hit than a pure sacrifice. Still don't love it, but 1st & 2nd/none out vs a tough pitcher (Carpenter) in the top of the 1st and it's less bad. Turns out that they took a 1-0 lead w/o getting the ball out of the infield partly on account of that: Reyes - IF hit; LoDuca - HBP, Beltran - bunt hit; Delgado - BB ... and then got no more as Wright K'd and Nady GiDP'd Richard Neer on WFAN brought the subject up this morning - praising the idea more than I thought it merited - which actually prompted me to do a rare thing and call to discuss it. Amazingly I got right through, was put on hold ... and then accidently hung up on myself fumbling for the speaker button. Turns out they had a bunch of guests afterward anyway so I either wouldn't have gotten on or would have spent 45 minuts on hold. Oh well.

Edgy DC Mar 25 2006 10:19 AM

Like I said, I'm OK with bunting for a hit there, as long as one picks his or her spots --- and spring training is as good a spot as any. While the sacrifice is, in itself, an over-rated thing for losers, perhaps, it's the third-best thing happening there --- the better things being the potential hit and staying out of the rally-killing double-play. Now, a fast guy like him batting from the left side shouldn't fear the double play so much, but the fourth best thing, and perhaps higher, happening there is that they put a seed in the heads of a good team that will perhaps draw them up closer on Beltran the next time they face him in a similar spot in a game situation. Just thinking it through. He abuses this bunting thing, I'll jump on him with you.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 25 2006 10:53 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Richard Neer on WFAN brought the subject up this morning - praising the idea more than I thought it merited - which actually prompted me to do a rare thing and call to discuss it. Amazingly I got right through, was put on hold ... and then accidently hung up on myself fumbling for the speaker button. . What handle were you gonna use? So next time, I know who I'm listening to. Nat from Garden City? William from Seaford? When I call, I'm usually "Sal from Coney Island."

Nymr83 Mar 25 2006 11:21 AM

and all this time i thought you were Jerome from Manhattan...

Frayed Knot Mar 25 2006 12:30 PM

"What handle were you gonna use? So next time, I know who I'm listening to" I've probably called all of 3 or 4 times in the 18 or so years they've been on the air so I don't think 'next time' is something you should hold your breath waiting for. There actually is a regular caller to that station I went to HS with (same first name/different town) who I eventually recognized through clues I picked up on via the sheer repetition of his appearances.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 25 2006 12:40 PM

At least tell me you were going to use a CPF style pseudonym that would have gotten my attention. I think, say, "Cleon from Morristown" would have gotten my ears to prick up. "Hello, Cleon from Morristown, what's on your mind?" "I want to talk about Omar Minaya--" Yeah, I think I would have put the paintbrush down and turned the volume up at that point.

Zvon Mar 25 2006 01:38 PM

Like Ive seen expressed here, theres no better time to plant seeds of thought in the opposition than spring training. But sometimes I do think Beltran thinks in these terms a wee bit more than he should. Giving himself up in a spot not exactly appropriate for a player being paid to hit and drive in runs. (A surprise bunt for a hit is a different story. Thats exciting.) Stealing a base at a time he feels would help the team (which is all he really is trying to do) but its really not necessary. Like when he tried to steal 3rd that time last year and was out. I cant fault him for these things, cuz i like seeing that style of play, but like Edge says you have to pick your spots and this should be done wisely.

*62 Apr 01 2006 11:59 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: We all know bunting is for losers, but I wouldn't mind seeing Beltran take less of the so-called "pressure" of hitting 3rd in this order, at least until he gets his O game going again. Getting him out of 3rd actually opens up a lot of better lineup options than not, IMO. Agree. One way or the other, Beltran has to do SOMETHING exceptionally well. He has to be either an RBI/HR guy who steals 20+ bases and scores 100, or a 120 run/40 SB guy who also knocks 24 bombs and 80 RBI. Do something! Or he could just increase last year's stat totals by 30-plus percent across the board and be the five-tool monster Omar bought.

Rotblatt Apr 05 2006 11:29 AM

Game 2 for the Mets and it's SNOWING?! WTF?

Edgy DC Apr 05 2006 11:39 AM

Frank Cashen is on the phone crying out to Willie to "Hold Bannister back!"