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Sudoku: Spinoff from the spinoff thread

Frayed Knot Mar 13 2006 10:56 PM

A spin-off from the 'Circuit City' thread OK, I haven't exactly "gone gay" over these things (as Dickshot put it) but they have started appearing in newspapers I get on occasion so I've taken to doing a few per week lately. Here's my only problem: The ones I've done always seem to be either too easy or too hard. The easy ones I can solve them in a few minutes with no great challenges - but on others I get to a certain point then get stuck and can't for the life of me figure out how to advance any further. And it's not like looking at the answer key helps you out because it's no use in informing you how to get from the point you're at to the final solution. Yeah you get the answers, but you don't learn anything by doing so. OK Fine, so it turns out the '2' goes in the upper right and not the middle right ... BUT HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT YOU JAPANESE MINDFUCKER YOU?!? There's one in the color comics section of Sunday's Newsday each week that I've yet to get even close to finishing even once so far (out of about 6 or so). There's got to be something I'm not seeing or some method I'm not employing, but I haven't the fucking slightest idea what those might be.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 13 2006 11:43 PM

I have the same problem. I'm hoping that the more I do, the better I get at recognizing the techniques I use to solve em. I'm still feeling around too much. Often when things look bleak I see a brilliant solution open up so quickly I don't realize how I ever recognized it. I have to try to remember how I did those things before I move on to more difficult puzzles.

sharpie Mar 14 2006 08:44 AM

I immediately recognized their addictive nature so I've mostly stayed away from them. I cut most crossword puzzles out of my life and almost all magazines since I have only a finite amount of time (and I must read the newspaper) I'd rather read books and spend time here than give myself over to sodoku. They do call to me with their siren call but I must be strong.

soupcan Mar 14 2006 09:33 AM

For a while I had Frayed Knot's problem - whipping through the too easy ones and hitting the wall on the too hard ones. Eventually I figured it out and now, although it does take me quite a bit longer than the easy ones, I routinely finish the hard ones. Its hard to explain but once you get stuck you have to go number by number in each space until by a process of elimination you have found that although the missing numbers 3 and 6 can both fit in that square, its the only square that 6 can fit in. If you are doing it right there should be no guessing as it all eventually falls into place logically. I like the puzzles - they round out my commute. - NYTimes crossword puzzle, coffee and mellow iPod shuffle in the A.M., NY Post Sudoku, bag of Zarro's popcorn, Foster's oil can and a rockin' shuffle in the P.M. It's a simple life but I'm okay with it.

seawolf17 Mar 14 2006 09:44 AM

Soup's right. There's really nothing to them; you just have to be willing to sift through all the possibilities, across the rows and the columns. Sometimes the hard ones can be tedious, but you just gotta keep plugging away.

Frayed Knot Mar 14 2006 09:53 AM

"you have to go number by number in each space until by a process of elimination you have found that although the missing numbers 3 and 6 can both fit in that square, its the only square that 6 can fit in." I've done that - trust me. It's not like I'm above tedious staring at these things. But I've looked at some of them until I'm absolutely positive that each blank square still has 2 or more possibilities and that each missing number still has several places it could go in each row, each column, and each section. So short of trying an almost infinite number of if/then trials which would be virtually impossible to keep track of, I'm out of options.

soupcan Mar 14 2006 09:57 AM

Yeah I know - it's hard to explain. If it seems that every square has more than one possibility than you have to start looking at a bigger picture - the vertical or horizontal line that square is part of. There can only be one 6 in either of those lines, so you have to figure the possibility of - if you put the 6 here would it prevent the possibility of a 6 in the other line, box whatever.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 14 2006 10:22 AM

The other thing is, if you are certain you're stuck, erase everything and try again. Newspapers need better paper stock. Free puzzles here: [url]http://www.websudoku.com/[/url]

Frayed Knot Mar 14 2006 10:38 PM

OK, first of all, let's see if this table-thingie works: - - - - - 1 3 7 5 5 7 - 8 3 - - - 6 3 - - 5 7 6 - - - 8 - 9 - - - 6 3 - 2 - 6 - 8 3 7 5 9 7 3 5 - 6 - 2 - 8 - - - 3 4 - - - - 4 - 3 - - 8 - 6 - 1 5 7 6 - - - - 3 OK, that's not too bad. Anyway, this is a pseudo-facsimile of the one I've been working on from Sunday's paper. The ones in BOLD are the given, the others are the ones I've filled in so far. And that's where I'm stuck. So if anyone wants to tell me where the next move or two are, be my guest. I don't mean you need to solve the entire puzzle here, but if someone wants to point out where the next few moves should be by saying something along the lines of: square X can only be number Y because ... well then you're better at these than I am.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 15 2006 08:30 AM

I'd start by filling in the missing squares on the leftmost column and bottom left square with 6s and 9s and 2s and 8s where appropriate. I usually write a small number(s) inside the box when I can narrow spaces down to 2 options. That may inform more about the columns, boxes and rows adjacent. You've prolly already done that.

seawolf17 Mar 15 2006 09:41 AM

This is going to be hard to explain. Consider the boxes this way: 123 456 789 The key is the center box, and column 5. The empty boxes in boxes 4 and 6 must contain 1 and 4; so must box 4 in box 5 (to complete row 5). Let's eliminate every wrong number from the center box (5): 2,7 2,5 2,5,7 1,4 8 3 1,4,9 6 4,9 Now look at column 5 the same way: 2,9 3 7 2,5 8 6 4 1,2,5,9 2,9 Because of the two "2,9" entries, you can eliminate those numbers from Row 8, leaving this: 2,9 3 7 2,5 8 6 4 1,5 2,9 You only have one "1" left; mark that in. 2,9 3 7 2,5 8 6 4 1 2,9 That leaves you with only one "5'. Mark that in. 2,9 3 7 5 8 6 4 1 2,9 That makes your center box: 2,7 5 2,7 1,4 8 3 1,4,9 6 4,9 ---------- Adding that five eliminates the five from all other columns in Row 8 except Row 8, Column 7. Mark the 5 in there. That also means the last five on the board is in Row 7, Column 6.

seawolf17 Mar 15 2006 09:50 AM

Now we look at Box 8. 3 4 5 2,7,9 1 8 6 2,9 2,9 The two "2,9" entries make the other mystery box a 7. That means that Row 8, Column 9 must be a 2, and Row 8, Column 2 must be a 9.

cooby Mar 15 2006 03:59 PM

This morning when I went to get a cup of coffee, our switchboard operator was using Widey's website

soupcan Mar 15 2006 05:14 PM

Did you tell her what good friends you are with, um, Johnny Dickshot?

cooby Mar 15 2006 05:21 PM

I'm going to keep my eye on her because I think she might secretly BE, um, Johnny Dickshot. (ps, not that website, this one)

SI Metman Mar 16 2006 02:50 AM

Aww geez, I'm going to be at that websudoku site all weekend now.