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Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

bmfc1 Oct 16 2017 08:16 PM

Baseball America has news of a new 32-team league--that's it, one league--with 4 divisions and the Mets in the "North" with six AL teams: Consider four eight-team divisions with the addition of teams in Portland and Montreal: East: Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Miami, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay and Washington. North: Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Montreal, both New York franchises and Toronto. Midwest: Both Chicago franchises, Colorado, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis and Texas. West: Anaheim, Arizona, Los Angeles, Oakland, Portland, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle. Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/columnis ... s3Q5RTV.99 No thank you.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 08:24 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I could tolerate this if it means no DH rule, but I suspect that the opposite would be true.

41Forever Oct 16 2017 09:07 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Cincinnati in the East seems like at odd placement to me, but I know someone is going to be in an odd place to keep the divisions equal. Those April games are going to be chilly is we're only playing those teams in that month!

Lefty Specialist Oct 16 2017 09:13 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

No f'n way.

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 10:07 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Something like this is probably happening sooner than later if it's got legs on BA by TR. I don't like it but I don't like a lot of things as I get grumpier*. *older

Edgy MD Oct 16 2017 10:15 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I find it interesting that it's an operating assumption that Portland and Montreal have teams on the way.

41Forever Oct 16 2017 10:25 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

He's calling for a shorter season, too, which seems unlikely. Plus, it's Tracy Ringolsby.

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 10:34 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

He's not exactly a hack. Longer po$t $eason.

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2017 10:40 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Proposals like this are being floated all the time. Problem is, most of them are done for no reason other than someone thinking they've come up with a 'New and Improved' layout where the divisions look neater when circled on maps and the final result winds up creating as many problems as it purports to solve. This one is at least thinking about the kind of thing that would need to occur if and when the owners get the expansion bug again (they do like them some entrance fee cash). That said, he loses me with the part about the 'Top Four Teams in Each Division advance' and is apparently under the impression that an increased inventory of post-season games is what baseball fans -- many of whom often admit to, if not flat-out brag about, how little attention they pay to playoff baseball once their team is eliminated -- are clamoring for.

41Forever Oct 16 2017 10:59 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I just realized the plan has the Mets and Phillies in different divisions. They're talking about cutting down on travel as a reason to do this, and have us playing a team in Minneapolis instead of the team an hour away?

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2017 12:42 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

41Forever wrote: I just realized the plan has the Mets and Phillies in different divisions. That's part of what I mean by creating one problem for every one they supposedly solve. I remember watching a game out of Pittsburgh during a time when one of these realignment plans was newly floating around, and the p-b-p and color guys (forget specifically who they were) kept saying that all they wanted out of a plan was one that would get them back in a division with the Mets & Phils. It's funny how one of the "fixes" virtually all of these have in common is putting StL & KC together as if both being in Missouri makes it virtually required that they be put together, but none of them mention the breaking up of Philly & Pitt who are also in the same state and, oh yeah, had a century's worth of tradition with each other but somehow don't rate the same deal.

Mets Willets Point Oct 17 2017 01:20 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I like four leagues of 8 teams with a regional alignment, but we can come up with a better alignment than that.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 01:35 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Given the parameter of adding Montreal and Portland, this is the best I can do: Maple Tree Division Baltimore Boston Montreal New York (A) New York (N) Philadelphia Pittsburgh Toronto =#FF0000]Bible Belt Division Atlanta Cincinnati Houston Kansas City Miami Tampa Bay Texas Washington =#00BF00]Dairyland Division Chicago (A) Chicago (N) Cleveland Denver Detroit Milwaukee Minnesota St. Louis =#FF8000]Calistoga Division Anaheim Arizona Los Angeles Oakland Portland San Diego San Francisco Seattle It'd be a lot easier if Denver would move to Norfolk or something.

Mets Willets Point Oct 17 2017 01:39 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Can't imagine Montreal & Portland getting teams. They don't even have minor league teams right now. I'm also in favor of two 15-team leagues (no divisions) or 3 10-team leagues, regionally aligned.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 02:17 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Washington didn't have a minor league team when the Expos moved there. I think sometimes a city that thinks of itself as big-league won't pursue a minor league team, and would rather be team-less than condescend to host some other city's affiliate.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2017 02:19 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I'm surprised that I never seem to see any discussion of Tennessee or North Carolina getting big league teams.

Ashie62 Oct 17 2017 02:31 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

No effin way

bmfc1 Oct 17 2017 11:19 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I prefer Wayne Randazzo's idea of 8 4-team divisions:

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 11:42 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I like how Wayne thinks the comma delineation rule should be used in the northeast and midwest, but not in the south and far west.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2017 12:40 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

He freaky like dat.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2017 01:07 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

bmfc1 wrote: I prefer Wayne Randazzo's idea of 8 4-team divisions Four team division plans suck for multiple reasons, the main one being that the odds of having ANY races for 1st place go way down. Hell, only the AL East (2.0 games) and the NL Central (6.0) were under double digits this year. Not that this year alone proves the case, but when you put fewer and fewer teams in each division the odds of having any two of them be good at the same time gets smaller and smaller.

Mets Willets Point Oct 17 2017 01:28 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Frayed Knot wrote: bmfc1 wrote: I prefer Wayne Randazzo's idea of 8 4-team divisions Four team division plans suck for multiple reasons, the main one being that the odds of having ANY races for 1st place go way down. Hell, only the AL East (2.0 games) and the NL Central (6.0) were under double digits this year. Not that this year alone proves the case, but when you put fewer and fewer teams in each division the odds of having any two of them be good at the same time gets smaller and smaller. And the odds of a crappy team winning a weak division go up.

MFS62 Oct 17 2017 01:33 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Frayed Knot wrote: when you put fewer and fewer teams in each division the odds of having any two of them be good at the same time gets smaller and smaller. Wouldn't that depend on how many times they play each other under the new alignment? Or some other variable? Haven't as many as three teams from the same (small) division made the NFL playoffs (or at least have the same w-l record as teams that did)? Just because there are few teams doesn't mean several can't be good at the same time. Who a team is aligned with doesn't mean each team can't be good. I don't think there is a direct correlation. Later

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 01:34 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

You would have to stack a terrific amount of games (24 each?) against the same three opponents, and the majority of your games would still be extra-divisional. There are no good answers, except one big league, and no post-season.

Ceetar Oct 17 2017 01:38 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Mets Willets Point wrote: And the odds of a crappy team winning a weak division go up. I suspect baseball would be okay with this though, as it'd make it easier for one player to shine through, carry a team, and be 'marketable'.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2017 01:53 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 17 2017 03:17 PM

MFS62 wrote: Wouldn't that depend on how many times they play each other under the new alignment? Or some other variable? Partly, though, as Edgy notes, there's only so lopsided you can make a schedule when you have just three division opponents. Haven't as many as three teams from the same (small) division made the NFL playoffs (or at least have the same w-l record as teams that did)? Sure, but how is that any better? There is always going to be only a handful of good teams in any sport in any one season and if three of them come out of one group then there are that many fewer spread among the other seven. (see also: Willets' comment). And while it's tough to compare baseball to football because of their vastly different set-ups/seasons, why is the NFL model, which in some years has seen multiple divisions clinched with 1/4 of the season still remaining and regularly produces years with .500 and sub-.500 teams in their playoffs, one MLB should want to emulate? Just because there are few teams doesn't mean several can't be good at the same time ... Who a team is aligned with doesn't mean each team can't be good ... I don't think there is a direct correlation. These are all really the same point and, as stated above, it's not that there CAN'T be two or more good team in one division but the odds of it go way down, and if it does occur it most likely means a division, or quite possibly several, with NO good teams elsewhere.

Mets Willets Point Oct 17 2017 02:44 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Ceetar wrote: Mets Willets Point wrote: And the odds of a crappy team winning a weak division go up. I suspect baseball would be okay with this though, as it'd make it easier for one player to shine through, carry a team, and be 'marketable'. But it's annoying. We already have superior teams playing the Wild Card knockout game while weak division teams coast into the ALDS.

Fman99 Oct 17 2017 04:17 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

They should fix something that's actually broken, instead of this. This is just a big turd on a doily.

Ceetar Oct 17 2017 06:05 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Nothing wrong with new teams. I'd kinda welcome them. How we align them is a different story.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2017 06:21 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I have no problem with expansion either. Hell, give me eight five-team divisions, where only the first place teams make the playoffs. San Bernadino (California), Las Vegas, and Portland (Oregon) all have a larger metro population than Cleveland. San Antonio is between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Sacramento and San Jose are between Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Orlando, Indianapolis, and Norfolk all have more people than Milwaukee. And Columbus, Austin, and Charlotte are very close to Milwaukee's population. And in Canada, Vancouver and Calgary also have large population centers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... rban_areas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_Canada

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2017 08:02 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

btw, how much would the Nationals hate this one?!? Edgy MD wrote: Maple Tree Division Baltimore Boston Montreal New York (A) New York (N) Philadelphia Pittsburgh Toronto =#FF0000]Bible Belt Division Atlanta Cincinnati Houston Kansas City Miami Tampa Bay Texas Washington =#00BF00]Dairyland Division Chicago (A) Chicago (N) Cleveland Denver Detroit Milwaukee Minnesota St. Louis =#FF8000]Calistoga Division Anaheim Arizona Los Angeles Oakland Portland San Diego San Francisco Seattle Five teams within a five hour drive -- Pitt (245 mi), Philly (138), NYCx2 (250), and of course Baltimore (40) -- and they're not in a division with any of them but are with such "locals" as KC, Dallas & Houston That's one of the problems with these things, EVERY solution is bound to piss someone off.

Nymr83 Oct 17 2017 08:56 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 17 2017 09:00 PM

The problem with any radical realignment is the abomination known as the DH. West: this one is easy. SEA, Portland, SF, SD, LAA, LAD, ARZ, OAK. done. NorthEast: NYM, NYY, BOS, BAL, PHI, WAS, Montreal - the 8th in my opinion is Pittsburgh, not Toronto, but that could go either way. the real issue is do you split the remaining 16 teams along north/south lines or east/west lines? I'd probably go north/south - Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Cubs, White Sox, Twins, Brewers this creates a "fuck you travel" division from 2xFlorida to Atlanta to 2xTexas to Colorado to 2xMissouri. the best bet would be to end Coors field and move them to Nashville or Charlotte. if you swap PiT/TOR, though, you could have 4 NL and 4 AL teams in each division and keep the DH in play for "former AL" home games - everyone would need a DH for 81 games! truly crazy!

bmfc1 Oct 17 2017 08:58 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Frayed Knot wrote: btw, how much would the Nationals hate this one?!? ... That's one of the problems with these things, EVERY solution is bound to piss someone off. Then you might as well piss off WSH. F them.

Lefty Specialist Oct 17 2017 10:26 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

This would be the way they finally get the DH across all of baseball. If you obliterate the league identities you obliterate the resistance to the DH.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 11:23 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

That's a big yup. Continuing to let pitchers hit isn't a cause that has a big natural constituency when the powers-that-be gather around the table. The main argument the persistence of the rule has in that room is that it's part of the National League's identity. No National League, and that angle is gone.

Nymr83 Oct 17 2017 11:25 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I found a solution that makes almost everyone happy. Apologies to El Yanquis de Ciudad Mexico.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2017 11:28 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

bmfc1 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: btw, how much would the Nationals hate this one?!? ... That's one of the problems with these things, EVERY solution is bound to piss someone off. Then you might as well piss off WSH. F them. I had a feeling you might chime in on that one. Maybe Edgy's program needs to shift the Nats in with the Maple Trees, Toronto over to the Cheeseheads (how ironic that Toronto is moved away from the Maple group?), and St Louis to the bible belt But that, while placating Washington, would horrify the mid-western contingent who'll see their Cardinals/Cubs games reduced to three/year.

Edgy MD Oct 17 2017 11:49 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Yeah, one of my working assumptions was that NYY/BOS, CHC/STL, and SFG/LAD couldn't be broken up.

Chad Ochoseis Oct 18 2017 12:53 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I'd preserve the AL and NL because of tradition and DH non-proliferation. The argument that realigning everyone is OK because two teams in the 100+ year history of the two leagues have done it is ridiculous. But, if we had to do it: NE: BOS, NYY, NYM, TOR, PIT, CLE, DET, MON SE: PHI, WAS, BAL, ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN, STL Cow Country: CHC, CHW, KCR, MIN, MIL, TEX, HOU, DEN West (we're all in agreement here): POR, SEA, ANA, LAD, SDP, SFG, OAK, ARI Although Montreal is much further from Detroit than it is from Philadelphia, Baltimore, or DC, preserving time zones to the greatest degree possible is a worthwhile goal. And this would get me 6 Met games a year at the Jake, another worthwhile goal. The only time zone oddballs you get here are St. Louis in the southeast division and Denver - the only MLB team on mountain time* - in Cow Country. *Arizona is also technically on mountain time, but doesn't observe daylight savings time, so they're effectively Pacific during the baseball season.

MFS62 Oct 18 2017 01:28 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Frayed Knot wrote: when you put fewer and fewer teams in each division the odds of having any two of them be good at the same time gets smaller and smaller. You were talking about the size of each division, not the entirety of MLB. Whose odds? What odds? This is probably something a fifth grader taking the "new math" set theory can calculate. I realize that major league baseball is a zero sum game - for every winner there is a loser. But the size of a set has nothing to do with the values in a particular set. One set ( a division) in a group of sets ( a league) can all have high values when compared to other sets. One set can have more than one high value. And some of the other sets can have many crap teams. I agree that can happen, because the league as a whole is at .500. But a "the odds of ..... " statement should be backed up with the math. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but it is a CPF tradition to challenge generalizations. And, besides, I'm really fucking pissed at the MFYs winning. If they had lost, I would have let this slide. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2017 01:55 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Let me try it this way. In any given season, in any sport, there are usually (depending on how you want to define the term) somewhere between five and maybe eight really good teams. This year you'd probably count them as the Nats, Cubs, Dodgers, and maybe the DBacks in the NL; Sawx, Yanx, Injuns, Astros in the AL. That's seven/eight. Some years there might be more, in others even one or two of the division winners are barely mediocre so maybe there's only five or six. Now, if you spread those eight teams across four divisions like in the 1969-1993 era, or among six divisions like now, several divisions will [u:32541lfi]have to have[/u:32541lfi] more than one top team in it and therefore competitive races among top clubs to follow throughout the season. But sub-divide the league into eight divisions and the likelihood of having two or more in any one group goes down. It doesn't make the top teams themselves any worse or even the league as a whole (the zero-sum game thing) but it does make the odds of two of them fighting it out for the division crown a whole lot less and in some cases nonexistent. This is then exacerbated by the smaller pct of games for each team will be intra-division (unless you institute a wildly unbalanced sked). Note how NFL teams making the playoff with .500 or sub-.500 seasons increased when their realignment caused intra-division games to drop from 50% of all games to 37.5% (8-of-16 to 6/16) even though it actually reduced the number of Wild Card teams from three per conference down to two/per. btw, look at the division races this year: 21 games, 17 games, 20 games, 11 games. And there was a 6 and a 2 Not a lot of drama.

MFS62 Oct 18 2017 02:11 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I know. Intuitively, it is correct. At the extreme, if each team was its own division, it would be obvious that there could be no division with more than one good team (d'oh). The probability that as each division expands to four teams, and there are only 7/8 good teams (your post), on average there would be one good team per division. But there might not be uniform distribution based on geography. There still could be more than good one team in a division at any time, because teams can get better or worse over time. And that was my point. I was being a Math doofus. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2017 06:01 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

MFS62 wrote: But there might not be uniform distribution based on geography. There still could be more than good one team in a division at any time, because teams can get better or worse over time. Sure, this isn't meant to say that the good team(s) won't change from year to year, only that in any given year there are only so many top squads and that there probably won't be more than one of them in a given division. More divisions with fewer teams in each simply makes that scenario more likely, and if two (or even more) top teams do happen to find themselves in the same division in the same season that almost certainly means that one or more of the other divisions won't have any and will instead be stuffed with mediocrities, one of whom is then guaranteed to be a division winner. The proposal which started this thread -- and let's do keep in mind that it's nothing more than think piece at the moment about what the future might look like if and when further expansion occurs -- at least gets points from me by going the other way by envisioning a 4x8 set-up rather than the 8x4 which seems to be the type most often suggested. I suspect fans tend to like the 8x4 because it copies the NFL, because it makes nice neat groupings when circled on a map, and because it bunches together only the closest of rivals (whether they're actual rivals or just cities which happen to be semi-close physically). The problem is I'm not sure how often they tend to consider all the ramifications of what would follow.

Vic Sage Oct 18 2017 06:18 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Assuming the Portland / Montreal expansions: two2 4-division leagues that are grouped based on geography, while maintaining as much of the current alignment as possible (Milwaukee and Houston would have to switch back to their previous leagues, and Arizona would move to AL, with both new teams added to NL). This way, each region would have 1 AL team and 1 NL team, so you would see every team in every region. Each division would play home-n-home series against matching division in other league, minimizing travel, maximizing rivalries, retaining inter-league play but keeping it manageable. Including 2 wild cards in each league (along with the 4 division winners) increases chances of late season races [2 WC teams get 1-game play-in; 2ndR/best of 5 series (top record gets 1stR bye) or all 6 teams re-seeded based on record, with top 2 getting bye, and starting with best 2 out of 3 series. Extended playoff season possible with shortened regular season back to 154 games. [u:177gqofj]NorthEast[/u:177gqofj] Tor / [Mtl] NYY / NYM Bos / Phi Det / Pitt [u:177gqofj]Central-Atlantic[/u:177gqofj] (Milw) / Atl Cleve / Cinn Balt / DC TB / Mia [u:177gqofj]Midwest[/u:177gqofj] Mn / Col ChW / ChC KC / StL Tx / (Hou) [u:177gqofj]West[/u:177gqofj] Sea / [Port] Oak / SF LAA / LAD (Az) / SD

sharpie Oct 18 2017 06:26 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

The proposal eliminates the leagues so no need for Houston and Milwaukee to switch again. Since my daughter lives in Portland and I go there every year I heartily endorse a team being there. Also, I'm sure Mariners players would like to have at least one opponent that doesn't involve at least a 2-hour plane ride.

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2017 07:05 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

The other alternative to all this is that you don't change much of anything. If and when expansion teams come up you simply place them in the division where they most logically belong until each of the current divisions gradually increased to six teams each from their current five. Now unless they intend on expanding by six teams at once (not likely or recommended) they'll have to contend with different sized divisions and the scheduling problems which would come along with that but they've been there before and the world didn't end and it's not like the scheduling is perfect now. Meanwhile, leagues would stay intact, as would current rivalries, as would the present playoff structure which I think is in a good spot right now.

Nymr83 Oct 18 2017 07:33 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

4x8 is preferable to 8x4 just because it lowers the chances of a bad team winning a division.

Mets Willets Point Oct 18 2017 09:10 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Ceetar wrote: Nothing wrong with new teams. I'd kinda welcome them. How we align them is a different story. If you like adding new teams, then you might like my plan for creating a European style promotion/regulation system for Major League Baseball. 1. Add 18 new teams. Here are 18 cities in North America with large markets and a history of supporting baseball: Austin, Charlotte, Columbus, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Mexico City, Montreal, Monterrey, Nashville, Norfolk, Orlando, Portland, Sacremento, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Juan, Santo Domingo, and Vancouver 2. Put these 18 teams into a new MLB Division 2 and allow them to play 5 seasons against each other to develop rosters and fan bases, complete with MLB Division 2 postseason and championship series. 3. Meanwhile, the existing 30 teams (now known as MLB Division 1) continue playing as normal for 5 seasons, knowing that after the 5 seasons are complete, 3 teams from each league will be relegated to MLB Division 2 based on algorithm that takes into consideration composite record over 5 seasons, postseason appearances (or lack thereof), attendance, etc. 4. Now MLB Division 1 and MLB Division 2 each have 24 teams total. Divide each division into two 12-team leagues (American League Division 1, National League Division 1, American League Division 2, National League Division 2). 5. Going forward teams will play a 154-game league only schedule (14 games versus each league opponent). 6. The first place team in each MLB Division 2 league is promoted to MLB Division 1 for the next season. The twelfth place team in each MLB Division 1 league is relegated to MLB Division 2 for the next season. 7. The top three teams in each league in each division qualify for the postseason. The 2nd & 3rd place teams play a best-of-five play-in series with the winners playing a best-of-seven league championship series against the first place team. League championships series winners meet in World Series in MLB Division 1 or a MLB Divsion 2 Championship Series (needs a clever name). 8. Any future expansion would involve creating a MLB Division 3 and adding new teams to that division.

Edgy MD Oct 18 2017 09:18 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

That's brain thinking. It seems to me that the cities and the leagues are already in place to build Division 2 and Division 3. Just declare an end to affiliation (which the courts should do anyhow) and they will naturally try to enrich their teams by paying loaner fees to the big league teams for their minor leaguers and pursuing players of their own. Gradually, big league teams will keep fewer and fewer non-big leaguers under contract as they suddenly have new competition for not-yet-ready players, and a balance will be struck among the lower divisions with regard to players under contracts of their own vs. ringers on loaner arrangements.

d'Kong76 Oct 18 2017 09:44 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Mets Willets Point wrote: If you like adding new teams, then you might like my plan for creating a European style promotion/regulation system for Major League Baseball. 1. Add 18 new teams. Here are 18 cities in North America... Taking more than 700 players out of the MiLB system, talent pool and the towns/cities that have AA/AAA teams and re-distributing them into 18 other cities is, with all due respect, kinda nutty on about a dozen levels.

Ashie62 Oct 18 2017 09:49 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Speaking of wacky, WEST DIVISION Seattle Mariners Los Angeles Dodgers Los Angeles Galaxy Los Angeles Kings Golden State Warriors San Francisco Giants Sacramento Kings Anaheim Ducks. Liberty and respect for all.

Nymr83 Oct 18 2017 10:41 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Yeah, if you are going to do promotion/relegation you dony need new leagues, you already AAA AA etc just free them! There are plenty of other issues to work out though.

Ceetar Oct 19 2017 01:25 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I have no interest in the promotion/relegation thing.

Mets Willets Point Oct 19 2017 02:33 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

d'Kong76 wrote: Mets Willets Point wrote: If you like adding new teams, then you might like my plan for creating a European style promotion/regulation system for Major League Baseball. 1. Add 18 new teams. Here are 18 cities in North America... Taking more than 700 players out of the MiLB system, talent pool and the towns/cities that have AA/AAA teams and re-distributing them into 18 other cities is, with all due respect, kinda nutty on about a dozen levels. Nutty for baseball execs. Good for players and fans.

Mets Willets Point Oct 19 2017 02:35 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Nymr83 wrote: Yeah, if you are going to do promotion/relegation you dony need new leagues, you already AAA AA etc just free them! Essentially that is what is happening but branding it as MLB Division 2 takes away the "minor league" sting.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 02:39 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

This relegation this is interesting in the abstract, but I wouldn't want to see it in real life. If the Mets were to spend four or five years as a Triple-A franchise they'd lose me forever. And I expect that during the years they were in Triple-A I'd be barely paying attention to them. Going into spring training with the hope of a World Series (however slight that hope is) is much different from going into spring training with the hope of maybe rejoining the major leagues. I don't see at all how it's good for the players or the fans.

Mets Willets Point Oct 19 2017 02:42 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Players have more teams competing to offer contracts. Fans in more cities get a competitive team to call their own. I think an advantage of dropping down to a lower division means that a team can do a rebuild and still compete for a championship rather than wallowing in last place.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 02:45 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

They would lose me forever. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'd walk away from baseball.

Ceetar Oct 19 2017 02:53 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

The only way I see them pulling off relegation is by giving us a long time to get used to the idea and prepare. like, take those 18 new teams and make them the B league. Say in 2018. The winners of that league in 2018 and 2019 get promoted to the 32 team MLB for 2020. Then in 2020 you start swapping up/down with whatever rules you decide. is it 1 up 1 down? or two division of 8 and each winner goes up?

Mets Willets Point Oct 19 2017 05:36 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Benjamin Grimm wrote: They would lose me forever. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'd walk away from baseball. Well, you've been talking about your dwindling interest in baseball for as long as I've known you but you still post here and still maintain a Mets database, so maybe you'd adjust to this (totally fanciful idea I made up for fun) change too.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 05:49 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Maybe. But I don't think I'd care very much at all about the Mets winning a Division 2 title. And to be clear, my interest hasn't been dwindling. It took a severe drop after 1994 and has remained steady at that lower level. I've maintained my interest in the Mets, but have lost any real ability to watch a game that doesn't involve or impact the Mets.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 05:54 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever.

seawolf17 Oct 19 2017 06:03 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever. Are you... familiar with the Wilpons?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 06:19 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever. I'm just saying that IF the Mets were relegated, I'd be less inclined to pay close attention to them, especially if that Division 2 status lasted for several years. I see the game from a Mets standpoint. If the Colorado Rockies get relegated and never come back, I couldn't care less.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 06:36 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

seawolf17 wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever. Are you... familiar with the Wilpons? I'm familiar with the reality that the Mets haven't come in fifth place in 14 years, and that was 2003, the first year of the Wilpons' ownership.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 06:40 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever. I'm just saying that IF the Mets were relegated, I'd be less inclined to pay close attention to them, especially if that Division 2 status lasted for several years. I see the game from a Mets standpoint. If the Colorado Rockies get relegated and never come back, I couldn't care less. Well, interest always wanes when teams are in last place, so that effect would be nothing new. Beyond that, perhaps some fans might like a team that is more likely to compete in a lower division than struggle in a higher one for a year or two. If they continue to stink, they continue to stink. That's baseball. Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why the discussion of a promotion-relegation system automatically and always leads to the conclusion that the Mets are going to be relegated. And apparently forever. Are you... familiar with the Wilpons? I'm familiar with the reality that the Mets haven't come in fifth place in 14 years, and that was 2003, the first year of the Wilpons' ownership.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 06:45 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Well, sure, there's less interest in a last-place team. I also think, though, that there would be less interest in a first-place team in Division 2. When you go into spring training with, literally, NO chance to win the World Series because your team isn't even eligible, then you have a season-long lack of interest. A few years of that, and you can lose your connection to the team. That wouldn't happen to everybody, but it would happen to some. I think it would happen to me, but I don't expect to ever know for sure, because this idea will never happen in MLB.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 06:58 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Well, there wouldn't be a few years of that. A first place team in Division 2 — which you speculate would draw less interest than a last place team in Division 1, though I don't think the evidence supports that, but OK — would immediate return to the first division, and not remain in Division 2 at all.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 07:02 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Well, there could be a few second place years in Division 2. But, whatever. It's not going to happen anyway. I just know that for each year the Mets weren't a big-league team, whether or not they contended in Division 2, my interest would wane. And that waning would be cumulative. And I couldn't be sure that I wouldn't walk away before they even played their first Division 2 game. I may be in the minority, but I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 07:09 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Well, you framed it as a first place team. And yeah, your waning interest would be cumulative if they persisted as an also-ran in a lower division. Certainly. But again, that's what happens when a team persists as a last place club year after year. It would be a wet blanket of a team either way. The goal, of course, is to not be that team. And the Mets haven't. And when a team does fall to pieces, we wouldn't have this argument for them to deliberately tank. Because last place has consequences, which actually leads to exciting, consequential play for losing clubs toward the end of the season, and sustained fan interest, where now there is torment and boredom in September.

Ceetar Oct 19 2017 07:59 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

The real worry of falling to division 2 would be wasting bullets in ace pitchers and the like. You have this really good team that comes together and you're wasting it on division 2. Or it comes together second half but it's not quite enough to take over first. Maybe you'd have a shot in the playoffs if it were MLB, but it's not, you come in second, and not you have a juggernaut next year but maybe by the time it steamrolls 2 it's worn out and the year after it's not as good in MLB and you don't get anything for it. Not to mention that Division 2 is going to be almost by definition lesser in both revenue and value. How do you escape that? You're never signing the big MLB free agents. Are we keeping the draft? You kind of have to, or you're never signing the big prospects either. The only hope is to draft the right prospects and hope the right mix of aging veteran Quad-A guys get you first place so that you can afford to pay them when you get promoted. But it would take time for the revenue streams to return unless we're doing extreme revenue sharing so that might not even be enough. Essentially you're getting the same AAA system as now except the teams actually care and try to win at all costs instead of focusing on developing the prospects.

Ashie62 Oct 19 2017 08:06 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

If promotion/relegation happened I would walk away from baseball no ifs ands or buts.

Edgy MD Oct 19 2017 08:12 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Well, then. No need to wait for the Mets to be relegated. Ashie's right out.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2017 08:57 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Yeah, I'd at least wait until the Mets dropped to Division 2.

Vic Sage Oct 19 2017 10:29 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Edgy MD wrote: Well, then. No need to wait for the Mets to be relegated. Ashie's right out. Ashie wouldn't be the only one out. The regional sports networks, with long-term contracts with their local teams, would be right out, if they couldn't guarantee a major league team for their market. And player contracts would have to go year-to-year, because paying a guy $20M/yr when your a major-league team participating in major-league revenues is one thing, but having to pay for big multi-year contracts when your revenues are cut by A LOT would cause teams to go into bankruptcy. Or they'd have to all go to split contracts, with different Division I and II compensation, and a player making $20m 1 year, who has an MVP season, gets cut down to a minor league salary the next year because he played on a shitty team? So yeah, the player's union is out. And of course all the dependent entities relying on major-league teams (support services, vendors, community venues, etc) would take a huge hit for any team that is relegated to a 2nd division. How many season tickets and luxury boxes is a team selling in the 2nd division? What's its in-stadium ad revenue look like then? It's media deals? All these things are planned for over a long-term with relatively stable and projectable income streams. Relegation is such a logistically absurd concept for MLB teams that my preference (either for it or against it) is utterly irrelevant. As is everybody's. Cuz its impossible. Hey, lets put a franchise on the moon while we're at it. The Coors effect would be nothing compared to a lunar long-ball. And chicks dig the long ball. It'll be HUGE!

Edgy MD Oct 20 2017 12:22 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Yeah, but none of that is true. The model works in football, everywhere else. Clubs retain players and retain broadcast partners. Or they sell off players and rebuild, just like declining baseball teams in the US. And they survive and even flourish playing in divisions below the top level. They just do. It's just not the model folks are used to, so it's alien. But change happens. Federal Baseball Club v. National League has done nearly a century's worth of damage to baseball in America. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't. It's the only model we've known, so we think of it as American, but it's really totally not, except in the worst sense. The robber baron sense. There's this outstanding play by Frank McGuinness you've likely seen called "Someone Who'll Watch Over Me," about three westerners held hostage in (I think) Beirut — an American, an Irishman, and a Brit. The Brit is foppish and the rowdier Irishman gives him no end of grief. But in this one beautiful passage the Brit confesses his love for a small town soccer squad, and wondering how they're doing as time passes during their captivity. The Irishman laughs himself silly, mocking the guy loudly for his devotion to an overlooked club that can't climb out of the fourth division. But the Brit musters up as much dignity as he can and stammers something like, "Well, a certain degree of loyalty is required of one." And the Irishman is stopped, moved that this guy's dedication has shown him a character in the Brit he hadn't previously noticed, and realizing that same loyalty has grown between the two of them against their captors. And then he says something like, "You know, they're not all bad. They had that one year or two they climbed up the third division." And he's practically a fan of the team himself at that point. He wants them to win because he suddenly likes this wishy-wasy Brit he's stuck with. America used to be like that. Small town teams fighting for the joy of representing small town people. Or medium town people. And it was good. People hear about these great minor league careers and wonder why the guy didn't get a chance. But they did! We just can't imagine a world anymore where MLB wasn't the only game that mattered. Playing in the Southern Association and Pacific Coast League and the Texas League was meaningful. It was a career of sorts They got good contracts (for the time), baseball cards, and endorsement deals. It wasn't that much but it was a lot more, in real dollars, than minor leaguers make now. And there were adult amateur and semi-pro teams, just trying to become local heroes by beating up on that town further down the track, but hey, maybe that scout from the American Association might be watching. Stevie Jetes likes to remind us that baseball is in danger of no longer being the American Pastime. The reality is that it hasn't been in a long time. Not in the sense that it was originally meant. The anti-trust exemption set baseball culture back for generations and it still hasn't recovered. Promotion and relegation may not happen. But something else will. Perhaps something far more radical. Cartels are tyrants. And history grinds persistently against tyrrany. It may take another decade or two for the pressure to build enough, but it's been building for a long time.

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 12:34 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 20 2017 12:40 AM

So you're for adding 18 new teams in new cities too in addition to all the minor league teams and their towns/cities and the varsity/junior varsity thing?

Edgy MD Oct 20 2017 12:38 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

No, I'm not. We don't need new cities. We just need to set the minor leagues free.

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 12:48 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Free from what? You don't want a team to have AAA affiliate? AA?

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 12:55 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Your post on the top of the page is like three times the size it was?

Edgy MD Oct 20 2017 02:11 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

d'Kong76 wrote: Free from what? You don't want a team to have AAA affiliate? AA? No, I totally don't. It's enough that the Mets play for me. Syracuse ballplayers should be playing for the glory of Syracuse and its citizens, not for the sake of the some other team's development. Affiliation is a vestige of the anti-trust exemption and it has undermined baseball culture for too long. Think big! Think justice! d'Kong76 wrote: Your post on the top of the page is like three times the size it was? I have a typing problem.

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 02:14 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

My post says it was edited, but your post doesn't. Weird. It doesn't matter, I don't like the whole Div 1 Div 2 w/ DH soccer like thinking anyway so I'm not going to go on about it. Feel bad for college baseball if that ever happens. Hey, Div 2 can use aluminum bats!

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 02:15 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

You keep changing your posts as I type!

Edgy MD Oct 20 2017 03:59 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Editing problem too.

d'Kong76 Oct 20 2017 04:17 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I guess I've worn out my welcome here.

Edgy MD Oct 20 2017 04:49 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Heavens, no! No way!

Valadius Oct 22 2017 10:27 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Ok, so as I catch up on literally everything since October 10... I've been thinking about expansion/realignment for, I don't know, about 20 years. I used to write up proposed divisions in my notebooks in school when I was bored. Promotion/relegation wouldn't work in an established North American sport, for a variety of reasons: money, merchandising, broadcasting, but most importantly talent development. Aside from what goes on in places like the Dominican Republic, for the most part clubs are dependent on drafting players out of college or high school. In leagues that utilize promotion/relegation, player development is generally handled by the clubs themselves from a younger age, and clubs typically are able to develop their own local talent. Blowing up the current pipeline is something that is probably structurally impossible, and would undermine the great equalizer of sports - the draft. The Ringolsby proposal seems ridiculous to me in how callously it treats a very sacred aspect of baseball - tradition. More than any other North American sport, baseball treats its past with incredible reverence. Blowing up the leagues, or discarding many of baseball's greatest rivalries, doesn't seem likely. Now, as to expansion teams, I do believe that Portland will wind up with a team. My understanding is that there is about $150 million in public funds sitting there from when the Expos were on the move. Another western team is needed, geographically speaking, and the Mariners would finally get a natural rival. Oddly enough, only MLS currently has teams in both Portland and Seattle at the moment, and it's a huge rivalry. As to the second team, you've got a variety of cities to choose from. Among my favorite options are Austin, Sacramento (where I personally think the A's should move), Charlotte, Montreal, Vancouver, Orlando, San Antonio, Nashville, Las Vegas, and Indianapolis. So let's see how we can organize these teams into divisions. Given that I don't think that blowing up the leagues would be received well at all, let's start there. I've always thought that if you went to a 32-team league, four-team divisions would naturally follow. The following proposal attempts to take into account historical rivalries, geography, and the limitations of each league. NL East New York Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington NL North Chicago Cincinnati Milwaukee St. Louis NL South Atlanta Austin/Charlotte/Nashville Houston Miami NL West Arizona Los Angeles San Diego San Francisco AL East Baltimore Boston New York Tampa Bay AL North Chicago Cleveland Detroit Toronto AL Central Colorado Kansas City Minnesota Texas AL West Los Angeles Oakland Portland Seattle The hardest part of this was figuring out what to do with Colorado, which was the odd man out of the NL West and is so geographically removed from basically everywhere else. Finally, I decided to abandon my preconception of having both leagues' divisions align with each other, moved Houston back to the NL where it belongs, and moved Colorado to the AL, where it would likely flourish with the DH. The AL West finally makes sense, and with the Royals and Rangers as division rivals, the Rockies have two of their three closest teams in their division. A word on the second expansion team: my strong preference is that Austin gets a team. Outside of the Riverside-San Bernardino metropolitan area, which is really just suburban sprawl out of Los Angeles, Austin is the largest metropolitan area without a single franchise in any North American major league. It also is growing rapidly and has a very solid corporate base. I've been frankly astounded at how little noise there's been surrounding Austin as a possible location for an expansion team or relocated team in any of the major sports. The first league that shows up there will likely do very well.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 24 2017 01:22 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

The only thing the draft "equalizes" is how much $$ the bosses make dragging salaries down.

seawolf17 Oct 24 2017 01:30 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Val's plan is pretty solid. Just to pick a nit, I'd swap Colorado and Milwaukee. It gives the NL "North" the Cubs/Reds/Rockies/Cardinals, which still makes some sense (Cincy to Denver is a three-hour flight), and the AL Central the Brewers/Royals/Twins/Rangers, which also makes sense. Plus, since you're moving Houston back to the NL where they belong, it returns the Brewers to the AL also.

Nymr83 Oct 24 2017 02:59 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The only thing the draft "equalizes" is how much $$ the bosses make dragging salaries down. i dont think it drags overall salaries down, it just distributes cash to established players over newcomers - which is why the union isn't ever going fight it - they actually prefer it even if they occasionally might feel the need to pay lip-service to the idea that it isnt fair.

Frayed Knot Oct 24 2017 03:09 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

On Val's plan, I'll just re-mentioned my previously stated arguments against going to an 8 division/4 team format. As nice as all those neat little regional 'pods' might look when circled on a map, there are various reasons why I think adopting such a format would be a grave mistake.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2017 03:54 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Promotion/relegation wouldn't work in an established North American sport, for a variety of reasons: money, merchandising, broadcasting, but most importantly talent development. Aside from what goes on in places like the Dominican Republic, for the most part clubs are dependent on drafting players out of college or high school. In leagues that utilize promotion/relegation, player development is generally handled by the clubs themselves from a younger age, and clubs typically are able to develop their own local talent. Blowing up the current pipeline is something that is probably structurally impossible, and would undermine the great equalizer of sports - the draft. I disagree with all of this. Other sports in other countries have lots of money, scads of merchandising, oodles of broadcasting, and great big gobs of talent development. They also have rights. The draft isn't an equalizer and never was. It is and always was a way for powerful men to screw the powerless out of their right to sell their talent on an open market.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 24 2017 05:59 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Minor league affiliations are FAR from the only way to develop talent. It would require actual investment abroad-- rather than exhibition-game lip service-- but more robust, advanced academies are one route. Another is more developed international leagues, and a loan system similar to that of international football. Expand rosters for injuries and such. Create b-team/ youth games... but the blue-chippers can learn on the job away from home. The Yankees want to sign and retain a glut of talent that won't take up a roster spot? Cool. But they have to watch them win games and sell t-shirts for the Brewers, or the Portland Wave, or the Tijuana Taxis.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 24 2017 07:08 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Nymr83 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The only thing the draft "equalizes" is how much $$ the bosses make dragging salaries down. i dont think it drags overall salaries down, it just distributes cash to established players over newcomers - which is why the union isn't ever going fight it - they actually prefer it even if they occasionally might feel the need to pay lip-service to the idea that it isnt fair. It figures you'd believe this. The whole world is run by bullshitting scumbags and bastards who exploit everybody and everything underneath. Baseball's no exception. And in this country, the Republicans, whom you worship, are the worst example.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2017 11:30 AM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I'm pretty sure Nymr's got you blocked. But the MLBPA isn't the last word on whether the draft and other cost-control maneuvers aimed at amateurs persist. I hope it all comes crashing down tomorrow.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 24 2017 01:25 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

He couldn't ignore my posts if his life depended on it. And the block only works when he's logged in.

Edgy MD Oct 24 2017 02:03 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

I think, when he visits, he's logged in.

Nymr83 Oct 24 2017 11:58 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Edgy MD wrote: I'm pretty sure Nymr's got you blocked. But the MLBPA isn't the last word on whether the draft and other cost-control maneuvers aimed at amateurs persist. I hope it all comes crashing down tomorrow. Batshit? yeah, still blocked, a great decision and not one i'm likely to ever revisit as i once again enjoy visiting this board. certainly the MLBPA isn't the 'last word', but when a system benefits both them AND the owners that system isn't likely to change. i certainly wouldnt mind seeing it go away, i just dont think it will.

Valadius Oct 27 2017 12:24 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

And as I mention my strong preference for an expansion team to wind up in Austin, I find out that as of October 17, the owners of MLS' Columbus Crew are trying to initiate a move to the Texas state capital.

HahnSolo Oct 27 2017 01:01 PM Re: Go "North" Mets Fans: Realignment Proposal

Valadius wrote: And as I mention my strong preference for an expansion team to wind up in Austin, I find out that as of October 17, the owners of MLS' Columbus Crew are trying to initiate a move to the Texas state capital. Unless they are successful in extorting public money from Columbus for a new facility to replace the perfectly good one they have now. [url]https://deadspin.com/columbus-crew-welcome-to-the-stadium-extortion-racket-1819608903