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Mets Counterfactuals

Mets Willets Point Nov 02 2017 06:36 PM

Here's an offseason exercise that I hope will be interesting and fun. The basic idea is to change one incident in Mets' history and then describe what else changes as a result of that change. I've made a list of counterfactuals (below). The first person to go will select one of these and using their knowledge of Mets' history and creative writing skills write up an alternate history of what happened next. That person can then post their own counterfactual for the next person to work on (or they can pick one of mine that they'd like to see someone else respond to). And so on. 1960 - New York City and a team of private investors commit to renovating/rebuilding the Polo Grounds as a long-term home for the Mets and the Titans (akin to the work done to rebuild Yankee Stadium in the 1970s). The new Polo Grounds serve as the Mets home at least until the turn of the 21st century. 1966 - The Mets use their first round pick in the 1966 Major League Baseball draft to sign Reggie Jackson 1966 - The Atlanta Braves sign Tom Seaver after secondary June draft. The contract is never voided. Seaver never plays for the Mets. 1970s - Johnny Murphy, Gil Hodges, and Joan Payson remain alive and healthy into the 1980s. How long do they remain in their positions with the Mets and are they able to build on the success of 1969? 1970s - The Mets' front office embraces free agency and seeks to sign the top players available. Who do they sign over the first five years of free agency and how does that change the team's fortunes? 1986 - Bill Buckner cleanly fields a ground ball off the bat of Mookie Wilson and relays the ball to Bob Stanley in time for the out at first base. Game 6 of the World Series goes into the 11th inning tied 5-5. What happens next? 2000 - Mike Piazza hits a dramatic 2-run homerun to tie World Series Game 5. 2000 - The Mets and Alex Rodriguez come to mutually agreeable terms on a long-term contract. 2006 - Carlos Beltran connects on an Adam Wainwright pitch with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th in Game 7 of the NLCS. It's a hit.

cooby Nov 02 2017 07:47 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Oh they're all fake! Now I get it! Neat idea!

Ceetar Nov 02 2017 07:57 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

I could so do 2006 ,but I don't have an hour right now. what about 2015 Duda makes the throw and we're back to KC?

Mets Willets Point Nov 02 2017 11:26 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Ceetar wrote: I could so do 2006 ,but I don't have an hour right now. what about 2015 Duda makes the throw and we're back to KC? That sounds great, but write an alternate history first. It doesn't have to be long.

Ceetar Nov 02 2017 11:28 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Mets Willets Point wrote: Ceetar wrote: I could so do 2006 ,but I don't have an hour right now. what about 2015 Duda makes the throw and we're back to KC? That sounds great, but write an alternate history first. It doesn't have to be long. but it will be. i just wondering why you stopped at 2006

Mets Willets Point Nov 02 2017 11:39 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: I could so do 2006 ,but I don't have an hour right now. what about 2015 Duda makes the throw and we're back to KC? That sounds great, but write an alternate history first. It doesn't have to be long. but it will be. i just wondering why you stopped at 2006 I just wanted to come up with a few seed ideas. I'm hoping that other counterfactuals (like yours) will be put out there as this thread progresses.

cooby Nov 03 2017 12:16 AM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Looking forward to this. We need some fun around here

MFS62 Nov 03 2017 02:26 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

OK, I'll start: The 1963 season is over. GM George Weiss realizes that his formula for building the Mets isn't working. The "name" players he selected in the expansion draft are getting older and the farm system is not ready to bear fruit. But there is no free agency yet and he also doesn't have the trading chips to acquire more veteran players, so he looks to getting prospects ready to blossom from other organizations. So in 1963 equivalent of the Rule V minor league draft he goes back to his American League roots and selects pitcher Luis Tiant and third baseman Dick Allen from the organizations of Cleveland and the White Sox, respectively*. Tiant brings instant respectability to the rotation, and when Seaver, Koosman and Gentry are added to the rotation over the next years, it becomes one of the best rotations in the league. With Dick Allen at third base, the Mets no longer need to trade Nolan Ryan for a washed up shortstop to play the position. Ryan stays with the team, matures and joins the rotation (replacing Gentry), making it truly legendary - the best in the history of the game. The team becomes a dynasty for more than a decade, forcing the owner of the other (American League)team in town to get disgusted and sell the team to a group that moves it to Peoria. Later * = Did I use that properly? Who cares? You know what I mean.

Ceetar Nov 03 2017 03:11 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Let's try this one. 8/28/2007. Marlon Anderson is NOT called out for interference at second on a slide against the Phillies and the game is tied. Reyes drives in Anderson in the next AB. Wagner comes in and closes it out. Mets win and are up 4 instead of 2. Getting Wagner into the game has him 'fresher' for the next day and they also hold on to win that one instead of losing in a walk-off. Now they're up 5 instead of 1. They continue the early September winning streak and while they still falter a bunch late, the Phillies have already started playing more rookies and shut down guys with nagging injuries. They never get closer than 4 and the Mets win the division by 5 games. The Mets crappy bullpen is still crappy and they get demolished by the Rockies in four games. the Mets still sign Santana, Castillo. But they make different bullpen choices. The Phillies, not bolstered by some sort of historic finish don't invest in some of their young players as heavily until the second half of 2008. The Mets win again but the Phillies do grab the wild card instead of the Brewers. They get clobbered by the Cubs, the Mets knock off the Dodgers, and the Cubs, and then the Rays to win the WS. Across town, the Yankees are bristling at the Mets success and want to make headlines. Instead of waiting until 2009 to make the big splash, they were tempted to do so in 2008, signing Torii Hunter and Livan Hernandez. This does not go as well as the signings they really made in 2009, and as such do not win it all in 2009. The Mets do not either, the injuries still catch up with them, though perhaps not as harshly. 2010 is not great either, and the Mets decide to cut ties with Minaya and Randolph anyway. They still hire Alderson and Collins, and things proceed from there. They still get hit with Madoff, but the increased revenues of the team being successful, and victorious, keeps the Mets budget in the black, even if they can't quite spend into the red anymore. Who's next?

HahnSolo Nov 03 2017 04:02 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

In 1966, the Mets as expected take Reggie Jackson with the first pick in the amateur draft. Picking number 2, the Athletics bypass highly regarded HS catcher Steve Chilcott and instead draft lefty pitcher Ken Brett. In 1967, three picks after the Mets draft Jon Matlack to bolster their pitching staff, the A’s decide against another lefty first-rounder, opting to draft HS catcher Ted Simmons rather than hurler Brian Bickerton. Reggie is rushed through the minors and is starting in Right Field on opening day 1968, forming a formidable outfield along with Cleon Jones and Tommie Agee. Reggie struggles at the plate with major league pitching, but forms a bond with manager Gil Hodges and goofy first base coach Yogi Berra. He plays hard and no one has a bad thing to say about him. Reggie finishes third in the NL ROY race behind Johnny Bench and teammate Jerry Koosman. By 1969 Reggie starts to become Reggie. A midsummer series at Wrigley where Reggie homers in each game marks a turnaround to the Mets season. Following the game Jack Lang tells him that he should expect a great ovation his next game at Shea. “New York loves you. They’ll probably name a candy bar after you.” The Mets now have legitimate MVP and Cy Young candidates and they push past the Cubs to win the NL East. With Jones, Agee, Clendenon (acquired from the Pirates after long-time Met Ed Kranepool was lost for the season after a clubhouse confrontation. Speculation centered on Jackson as the locker-room rabble-rouser, but Hodges kept a lid on it and once Clendenon started hitting HRs the fans forgot about it), and Reggie, the Mets had a scary offense. After sweeping through the Braves, the Mets faced the powerhouse Orioles. The Mets won in five games, including the memorable game 4. Seaver went 12 innings giving up just one run, on a Brooks Robinson single to right in the ninth that Reggie couldn’t make a play on (Dick Young was heard to have complained after that play, “Swoboda or Shamsky would have had it”, a statement that generated quite a few eyerolls from the other scribes). But Reggie got the last word, with a walk-off homer in the 12th off the auxiliary scoreboard in right. In ensuing years Reggie continued to play like an MVP and it was clear that the Mets had two potential Hall of Famers in their midst. But they could only re-capture the 1969 magic once more, with a second-half rally to win the NL East in 1973. The Mets beat the defending World Champion Reds in four games, after Pete Rose homered in extra innings to take the lead in game 4, but Reggie’s two-run shot in the bottom of the inning sent the Mets to their second World Series in five years. As the crowd stormed the field, rousing chants of “Reggie, Reggie…” echoed throughout Shea. With the NLCS ending in four games, it set the Mets up to have Seaver start World Series game 1. He topped Ken Holtzman in game 1, but Vida Blue outdueled Matlack in game 2, despite a moonshot homer from Reggie. A gem by Koosman gave the Mets a 2-1 series lead, but game four was a four-hitter for Ken Brett to bring the A’s even. Ted Simmons continued his hot hitting with two homers to pace the A’s. Seaver won game five at Shea, and the Mets clinched their second World Series championship in game six, as Matlack outdueled Blue and Reggie hit his third homer of the series in the fifth for the deciding runs. Yogi signed a long-term deal to manage the Mets, but as the losses mounted in 1975 and 1976, whispers became screams about clubhouse discontent. Led by Dick Young, the media began to betray Reggie as the villain, asking for too much money and painting him as a bad teammate. Despite the backing of Yogi and Seaver, the front office seemed insistent on moving Reggie. Then on June 15, 1977, Jackson was dealt to the Dodgers. Mets fans still grimace when they see the photo op of a beaming Reggie getting hugged by Tom Lasorda at his introductory press conference. It stung the Mets fans a bit more just a month later when Reggie was back in New York for the all-star game. Naturally he homered. Mets fans were slightly happier a few months later, when he returned to Yankee Stadium with the Dodgers for the World Series. The Dodgers, behind Reggie’s five homers, beat the Yanks in six games. They repeated the feat a year later. Reggie played six years with the Dodgers, then finished out his hall of fame career with the Angels. Meanwhile the Mets, despite the presence of Seaver, struggled. Seaver played his entire career in New York, and younger fans remember the fortuitous groin injury in the spring of 1984 that opened up a rotation spot for a kid named Gooden. Following the 1986 season, in which Tom Terrific made 15 starts while fighting through some nagging injuries and winning his third title with the Mets, he announced his retirement.

Mets Willets Point Nov 03 2017 04:12 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

I like it. The Mets still have a Midnight Massacre, but they win another WS and the Yankees lose 2 and they get a full career from Seaver.

Edgy MD Nov 03 2017 04:15 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Did they keep Kingman? Mike Phillips?

HahnSolo Nov 03 2017 04:21 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Lots of variables to think about while rewriting history during a business meeting. One thing I absolutely meant to include but forgot is that the losing pitcher of game 4 1973 was in fact George Stone, as Yogi opted to give his starters an extra day with a 2-1 series lead.

Centerfield Nov 03 2017 04:28 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

2006 - Carlos Beltran connects on an Adam Wainwright pitch with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th in Game 7 of the NLCS. It's a hit. The hit is a laser into the RF corner that is bobbled. The winning run scores and the crowd goes wild. Absolute mayhem. In the uproar, real estate developer Donald Trump is tragically trampled to death. Ten years later, at a fundraiser at Trump Tower, Democratic Nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton recognizes a moment of silence for the 10 year anniversary of the death of her long-time supporter and friend. Then puts on her Mets hat and gives a cheer for the team, who is seeking their record 11th straight World Series Title.

RealityChuck Nov 03 2017 07:38 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

1969: Bowie Kuhn voids the trade of Rusty Staub for Donn Clendenon, when Clendenon refuses to report to the Astros. The Mets package Amos Otis, Ken Boswell, Ron Swoboda, and Nolan Ryan to the Astros for Staub and Joe Morgan. While it comes back to hurt them, Morgan and Staub give the team an offensive boost to win several pennants.

cooby Nov 03 2017 08:53 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Centerfield wrote: 2006 - Carlos Beltran connects on an Adam Wainwright pitch with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th in Game 7 of the NLCS. It's a hit. The hit is a laser into the RF corner that is bobbled. The winning run scores and the crowd goes wild. Absolute mayhem. In the uproar, real estate developer Donald Trump is tragically trampled to death. Ten years later, at a fundraiser at Trump Tower, Democratic Nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton recognizes a moment of silence for the 10 year anniversary of the death of her long-time supporter and friend. Then puts on her Mets hat and gives a cheer for the team, who is seeking their record 11th straight World Series Title. Sorry but this one made me laugh

Mets Willets Point Nov 03 2017 09:52 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Me too. Especially "long-time supporter and friend."

Mets Willets Point Nov 08 2017 08:13 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

This thread is supposed to work by ending a post with a countefactual for the next person to work on, so I'm bumping it up with a new topic. Following the lead of the American League, who expanded to 14 teams in 1977, the National League adds teams to Miami and Denver starting with the 1984 season. They also introduce a new three-division alignment. The newly resurgent Mets are able to capitalize on this by winning the NL East championship every year from 1984-1990. In this scenario, are the Mets frequent World Series participants or do the Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers, and Pirates foil them in the playoffs? What trade and free agent signings does the front office make (or not make) taking in consideration that they have a perennial postseason participant? And what are the fortunes of the Mets post-1990? Are they able to build on their success or will they struggle enough to make the front office panic and put together The Worst Team Money Can Buy?

Mets Willets Point Feb 14 2018 05:36 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Mike Pesca has a book coming out called Upon Further Review: The Greatest What-Ifs in Sports History that looks like a similar idea to what I tried to do in this thread. Also, Pesca is a Mets-Lovin' Big Shot. And there is Bill Buckner on the cover of the book. I always felt that had Buckner gotten Mookie out, the game would be tied heading into the 11th inning and the Mets would have won anyway. They had the home field advantage and probably the better bullpen options going forward (after Shiraldi was the Sox best reliever that season and he'd already blown the save). I suppose we would've seen Oil Can Boyd and Sid Fernandez at some point.

Centerfield Feb 14 2018 06:53 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Mike Pesca has a book coming out called Upon Further Review: The Greatest What-Ifs in Sports History that looks like a similar idea to what I tried to do in this thread. Also, Pesca is a Mets-Lovin' Big Shot. And there is Bill Buckner on the cover of the book. I always felt that had Buckner gotten Mookie out, the game would be tied heading into the 11th inning and the Mets would have won anyway. They had the home field advantage and probably the better bullpen options going forward (after Shiraldi was the Sox best reliever that season and he'd already blown the save). I suppose we would've seen Oil Can Boyd and Sid Fernandez at some point. If Sid's used there, it might affect Game 7. Though Game 7 was 2 days afterwards.

Edgy MD Feb 14 2018 06:59 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

I think a fair, well funded study of the video would scientifically establish that Mookie beats the play to the bag every time. I don't know what happens next, but the inning continues.

A Boy Named Seo Feb 14 2018 08:02 PM Re: Mets Counterfactuals

Reading this thread hella worried about rupturing the space-time continuum.