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Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ceetar Nov 09 2017 03:09 PM

This guy! This guy is good. He hits! he pitches! He's coming over as a pitcher though, the things I've read suggest that while he can hit it seems like he's not really expecting to play the outfield. The main thing is that by coming over now instead of in 2 years he comes over in the international pool system instead of the typical unrestricted sense. $20 million to the Ham Fighters, but he'll just get the signing bonus that a team has in their pool. People think this might mean he's open to go anywhere, because he's basically giving up a ton of money by coming 2 years early. He'll be subjected to 6 years of team control. unless. Obviously there's nothing stopping teams from extending a guy under control to a big contract. MLB is claiming they'll be harsh if a team tries to skirt these rules by unofficially offering Otani a 6 year megadeal that doesn't start or exist until after his first year. Francisco Lindor was offered, and turned down, 100 million after his first year. Andrelton Simmons got $58million, currently the highest at that point. But maybe ignore all that because the posting system is in flux, expired, will he be grandfathered in, willthe Ham Fighters agree to the new things what's going on it's all confusing! Otani has hired CAA, an MLB agency. So something will be worked out. it may be wildly different. It may reset how Japanese players sign here. who knows! He's good though! The Mets should get him.

Ceetar Nov 09 2017 03:10 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Oh, and he's only 23.

seawolf17 Nov 09 2017 03:50 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

DO IT, SANDY.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 09 2017 03:52 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Yeah I'd totally get this guy. If he can really hit its like getting twice the guy for the $$, and you'd think Sandy would get turned on by that concept. I don't think he AND another big $$ guy would come though, but who knows? As mentioned above maybe the Darvish signing greases the pole.

smg58 Nov 09 2017 05:14 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

He's a tough player to read. As a hitter he strikes out too often. His pitching numbers are certainly impressive, but he's never thrown more than 160 innings in a season (and only threw 25 innings this year). There's a lot of raw talent there, but it's RAW talent by MLB standards. Treat him like the top pitching prospect, but not like a guaranteed perennial All Star.

Centerfield Nov 09 2017 05:46 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I don't understand. So because he's young, would he be cheap?

Nymr83 Nov 09 2017 06:47 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

he loses contract dollars by coming over now - but if he really is (or can be marketed as) the "babe ruth of japan" he'll make a shit ton of endorsements.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2017 07:52 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Centerfield wrote: I don't understand. So because he's young, would he be cheap? Yes, because he doesn't have enough JPL time to be a FA so MLB int'l rules cap his earnings. In one way that's good (for MLB teams, that is, not for him) in that all teams will pay roughly the same amount. There is some wiggle room based on international bonus pool money which can be traded between clubs like with frozen orange juice concentrate futures. The Rangers apparently can sign him to the most money, slightly ahead of the Yanx, who are slightly again ahead of the pack. Don't ask me to explain it, but that's how it is. I suspect DH clubs will have an advantage as well.

seawolf17 Nov 09 2017 08:55 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Centerfield wrote: I don't understand. So because he's young, would he be cheap? He's got two years at the minimum salary before the collective bargaining agreement would let him earn any big bucks, yes. I read a thing about it recently. After 2019, he'd be eligible for whatever.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2017 11:25 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Mets may pursue Japanese two-way star Shohei Otani Intrigued by his star power, and emboldened by new rules that will leave him within their financial reach, the Mets are weighing a pursuit of two-way Japanese phenom Shohei Otani, multiple sources told Newsday.

Mets Willets Point Nov 15 2017 05:38 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Do we let him pinch hit on his non-pitching days?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2017 06:29 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Or play outfield, I guess.

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2017 06:42 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Using him elsewhere, even if only occasionally, would help solve the short bench problem. He mostly DH'd in Japan, and even then only in games that were several days prior to his scheduled starts which typically are once per week over there. That's part of why the DH league would be a better showcase for his talents.

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 07:00 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Frayed Knot wrote: Using him elsewhere, even if only occasionally, would help solve the short bench problem. He mostly DH'd in Japan, and even then only in games that were several days prior to his scheduled starts which typically are once per week over there. That's part of why the DH league would be a better showcase for his talents. Arguably not as he'll be pitching more often here and in the NL he'll actually get to bat during those starts. And the NL gets way more pinch hit appearances where you could conceivably use him versus trying to juggling trying to find him part-time DH duties.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2017 07:18 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

[tweet:2na6yk1j]https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/930615806433681408[/tweet:2na6yk1j]

Centerfield Nov 15 2017 07:31 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Frayed Knot wrote: Using him elsewhere, even if only occasionally, would help solve the short bench problem. He mostly DH'd in Japan, and even then only in games that were several days prior to his scheduled starts which typically are once per week over there. That's part of why the DH league would be a better showcase for his talents. Yeah. I can't see him coming to the NL given this. I don't hold out much hope that he'll be a Met. I just hope like hell he's doesn't go to the MFY's. But I'd say it's 50/50 he ends up there.

Vic Sage Nov 15 2017 07:51 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

the money comes out of the team's Int'l signing pool money, and Mets have almost no more available. I read that the most they can offer is $150k. Other teams have millions available. so the point is moot.

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 08:14 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Vic Sage wrote: the money comes out of the team's Int'l signing pool money, and Mets have almost no more available. I read that the most they can offer is $150k. Other teams have millions available. so the point is moot. there's a lot of dirty dealing about to happen. He's giving up tens of millions to come now instead of waiting two years. The specific first year totals may not even matter.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2017 08:52 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Apart from objecting to it in the extreme, I can't for the life of me figure out the international bonus pool thingie. Shouldn't that only apply to bonuses, rather than salary?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2017 08:54 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I'm not clear on that either. If what you say is true (and it might be) then the Mets would have a shot at Otani.

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 08:54 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Edgy MD wrote: Apart from objecting to it in the extreme, I can't for the life of me figure out the international bonus pool thingie. Shouldn't that only apply to bonuses, rather than salary? yes. He'll make major league minimum next year with whoever he signs with.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2017 08:55 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

He's not required to make the minimum, is he?

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 09:01 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He's not required to make the minimum, is he? yes. he'll be the same as any other guy from the normal regular draft. 6 years of control or whatever it is. if he waits 2 years he'd be until the other 'Japanese import' system that would allow them to pay him anything. Where this gets interesting is that everyone assumes teams are going to have an unwritten agreement to tear up the amateur contract for an extension that pays big bucks, probably after the first year, but how to do this to pretend it didn't happen now, during these negotiations, when it's not allowed to happen? I posted some numbers earlier in this thread about the biggest first-year buy-outs.

Vic Sage Nov 15 2017 09:14 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

he'll make the minimum but he can get a signing bonus from any team's international bonus pool allotment. That's where the teams can differentiate themselves in terms of compensation. The Yankmees can offer him $3.5M; the Mets $150k. So its not an even playing field in that regard.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2017 09:21 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So the only angle the Mets have is potentially trading a player (or $$) to another team in exchange for some of their stupid unused pool space.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2017 09:23 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So the Mets can, in theory, trade a particular player for, say, $2 million in bonus pool money?

Edgy MD Nov 15 2017 09:25 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

On second thought, there's probably a cap on the amount of bonus pool money/space a team can trade because that's the sort of nonsense there tends to be.

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 09:35 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Edgy MD wrote: On second thought, there's probably a cap on the amount of bonus pool money/space a team can trade because that's the sort of nonsense there tends to be. They can acquire up to 75 percent of their original pool allocation in 2017-18 and 2018-19, then after that they can trade for up to 60 percent of their original pool Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/internat ... p8TOc8b.99 Also they lose 500k if they sign a QO guy (though I guess they'd lose it for next year?) Anyway, people seem to think it won't matter since Otani's giving up so much to play here that it's about the best situation to play here. Mets/NY might offer certain opportunities that say, Kansas City, does not. There's quite a bit we don't know about his motivations.

Ceetar Nov 15 2017 09:45 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The Mets did not save/collect pool money to bid on Otani. You could argue that this is wise. Get players you want, you think are good, that you can get. Take the sure gets over the random lottery in Otani because having say 5 million or 2 million is not going to make a difference and what happens if you don't get him and then you didn't sign anyone good? Though the flip side is maybe he doesn't want to give up the signing bonus altogether, and the Mets basically are tapped out. (You can add that up below, 4.75 is where they started) New York Mets Ronny Mauricio, ss, Dominican Republic (No. 3 prospect), $2.1 million. Adrian Hernandez, of, Dominican Republic (No. 16 prospect), $1.5 million. Stanly Consuegra, of, Dominican Republic (No. 40 prospect), $500,000. David Marcano, rhp, Venezuela (No. 49 prospect) Federico Polanco, ss, Dominican Republic, $325,000. Eduardo Salazar, of, Venezuela Patricio Diaz, of, Dominican Republic, $100,000. Robert Colina, rhp, Venezuela Read more at [url]http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-team-team-international-signing-trackers/#C4V68QYRPcgjfl2p.99

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2017 11:44 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The final details on this whole Otoni signing business are still being debated by MLB, NPB, and the MLBPAA, so nothing is quite official yet. But basically the rules are being decided based on a mash-up of the new transfer rules between Japan & MLB, plus the Int'l signing limits within MLB, and then all that gets coupled with him being under the age of 25 when he jumps the Pacific making him subject to regular MLB rookie guidelines, ie. not even arbitration eligible for several more years. IOW, unlike the Matsui(^2) signings of years ago or Darvish/Tanaka more recently, Otoni won't qualify as a FA signing but rather, as Ceetar notes, like an incoming draft pick or amateur undrafted player.

MFS62 Nov 16 2017 02:35 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Great hitter, great pitcher. Babe Ruth or Clint Hartung*? Or something in between? Later * = Clint: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... cl01.shtml

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 16 2017 09:12 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mets may pursue Japanese two-way star Shohei Otani Intrigued by his star power, and emboldened by new rules that will leave him within their financial reach, the Mets are weighing a pursuit of two-way Japanese phenom Shohei Otani, multiple sources told Newsday. Bullspit. I mean, you could also overlay for Otani and take the penalty, no?

Ceetar Nov 16 2017 02:02 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I mean, you could also overlay for Otani and take the penalty, no? no.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 16 2017 04:08 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So in the end the difference maker will prob not be that one team had $2M bonus dollars to offer instead of another team's $500K. It'll be some shady nod/wink extension agreement ahead of time. I think we should be that shady team. -Rostering him fixes the short bench problem if the Mets choose to carry that extra pitcher. -Every 4th game there is no hole in the lineup. -For interleague games, we have an awesome DH. deGrom threw 201 IP last year and got 77 plate appearances. You'd rarely (never?) have to PH for Otani so he could prob get another 25 or 30 plate appearances right there just because you could still let him hit in the 6th even if you weren't gonna let him pitch the 7th. And if he never started a game for us in the outfield and we only used him as a pinch hitter, as a DH in the 8 interleague away games, and on days he pitched, you could still easily get 300 PA for him, no? That plus 150 innings or more of hopefully very, very good pitching? And he's 23?!? Sneak some shady shit, Mets!

Ceetar Nov 16 2017 04:14 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Whether or not he can be posted is apparently still up in the air and the players association supposedly has set a hard deadline of Monday to agree on the posting rules. This is for what the Japanese team gets out of it, not Otani. Actually I might have this backwards.

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2017 08:42 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

No, that's correct, the posting fee goes to the NPL team. And just to add to the whole bonus money thing, the Mariners just dealt away a 24 y/o pitching prospect to the ChiSox in exchange for an unspecified amount of Int'l Bonus cap money which, given Seattle's history with Japanese players, certainly implies that this deal was made with Otoni in mind.

Ceetar Nov 16 2017 08:45 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

yes, but the lack of agreement is about Otani's compensation, not necessarily the posting fee. All these rules we've been discussing might actually be altered or for naught.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2017 02:08 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Unable to reach an agreement prior to their self-imposed Monday deadline, the MLBPA granted themselves a 24 hour extension in order to try to come up with an acceptable posting arrangement for Ohtani. The new deadline is 8 PM Tuesday and that will remain permanent ... unless it's not. The Yanx, meanwhile, just traded with Jeter's Marlins for additional int'l bonus money.

Nymr83 Nov 21 2017 02:14 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

the real scandal is right there. the Marlins have just become the Yankees private farm system, like that guy who has his girlfriend or little brother in your fantasy league that only trades with him

seawolf17 Nov 21 2017 02:24 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Nymr83 wrote: the real scandal is right there. the Marlins have just become the Yankees private farm system, like that guy who has his girlfriend or little brother in your fantasy league that only trades with him BREAKING: Marlins trade Giancarlo Stanton, Dee Gordon, and Marcell Ozuna and $300 million to the Yankees for the desiccated corpse of Brett Gardner.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2017 02:29 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Well the Marlins did receive players for this money exchange -- Garrett Cooper and Caleb Smith (both of whom have played in the majors) go from NY to Miami while A-ball pitcher Mike King* plus the funds go the other way -- so it's tough to call it a scandal unless you have reason to believe that the swap was intentionally unequal which, among other things, implies that Jeter is out to ruin his own investment in favor of the team he no longer has a connection to. * 22 y/o former 12th round draft pick

Ceetar Nov 21 2017 03:35 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

[tweet:8se2h5cm]https://twitter.com/mccoveychron/status/932768758891868160[/tweet:8se2h5cm]

Centerfield Nov 21 2017 03:37 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

And if he is undermining the Marlins all the best to him. One less competitor in our division.

Lefty Specialist Nov 21 2017 10:43 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

seawolf17 wrote: BREAKING: Marlins trade Giancarlo Stanton, Dee Gordon, and Marcell Ozuna and $300 million to the Yankees for the desiccated corpse of Brett Gardner. Immediately followed by dozens of calls to the FAN by Yankee fans complaining that they overpaid,

Nymr83 Nov 22 2017 03:48 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

[url]http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21508043/mlb-players-association-agree-new-posting-system-shohei-ohtani according to this, a new system (which is one more year of the current system) was agreed to, but needs the sign-off of all 30 clubs - if i'm a club without max bonus money I would VETO this shit and take my chances with Ohtani waiting til next year when I too could pay him.

Ceetar Nov 22 2017 01:48 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Nymr83 wrote: [url]http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21508043/mlb-players-association-agree-new-posting-system-shohei-ohtani according to this, a new system (which is one more year of the current system) was agreed to, but needs the sign-off of all 30 clubs - if i'm a club without max bonus money I would VETO this shit and take my chances with Ohtani waiting til next year when I too could pay him. A. the extension was already agreed to, it just needed union approval, so that can't really be vetoed. B. pool money may not even matter at all C. Even if pool money does matter and you could max out next year, so would a billion other clubs. The deciding factors for Ohtani will likely be something else, and if you don't have it this year, 5 more million next year won't do it. D. It seems unlikely Ohtani would post next year, only one year removed from unrestricted free agency.

smg58 Nov 22 2017 04:39 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So what exactly needs to be done? Am I correct in thinking that there's a limit to how much can be spent on international signings, and that the posting fee would count towards this limit? In that case, the winner will be the team who thinks that Otani is worth sacrificing all the money they have available and missing out on anybody from anywhere else. Unless multiple teams go all in, in which case, then what? How much say does Otani actually get?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2017 04:42 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

As I understand it, it's Ohtani's decision to make. Once he selects a team to sign with, that team will send a $20 million payment to Japan. Some teams can offer him more money to sign (as a bonus) but his contract will be at the major league minimum. The buzz is that Ohtani cares more about opportunity than dollars (or yen) and won't necessarily sign with the team with the most money to offer from its bonus pool. However, the Yankees are at or near the top, and that, along with their (unfortunate and misguided) international appeal seems to make them the favorite. My hope is that he'll meet with Mickey Calloway and be swayed by Mickey's promise of undying love and affection.

Centerfield Nov 22 2017 04:46 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I hope Sandy doesn't make the mistake of speaking to him in Street Japanese.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2017 04:57 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

There's a great story told by (I think) Bill Lee about legendary USC coach Rod Dedeaux, where freshman Dave Kingman was throwing batting practice to the varsity players. He was the hardest thrower on the team, but one got away from him and he hit one of his teammates. Dedeaux flipped out and told Kingman to get the hell off the field, but after leaving the mound, Kong got in line with the hitters. A few batters later, he appears at the plate and hits the first offering 450 feet and the second further than that. He then just tossed the bat aside and started walking away. "Where the hell you going?!" Dedeaux yelled, and the misunderstood, awkward giant shrugged and said "You told me to get off your field, so I'm going. I just wanted to get a few swings before I left." And Dedeaux was all "Hold on, Son! Let's TALK about this!" I find myself alternately hoping that Ohtani is nothing like Kingman and hoping that he's everything like Kingman.

Ceetar Nov 22 2017 05:14 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

and we know virtually nothing, maybe actually nothing, about Ohtani's priorities. There's some thought he doesn't want to DH 3 times a week between starts, as that might be too much. But maybe that's bunk and he's fine with it. or maybe he's fine with it and it DOES become too much of a work load and hurts his numbers. I still think the NL actually makes the most sense, so that he gets his 100 PA as a pitcher. He can DH and pinch hit in the interim which will provide him regular almost daily AB and doesn't actually displace anyone. an AL team has to figure out a part time DH thing, and who's the part time guy otherwise? or do you just rotate and have no real DH but is that a disadvantage?

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2017 07:53 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

smg58 wrote: Am I correct in thinking that there's a limit to how much can be spent on international signings, and that the posting fee would count towards this limit? An overall limit on international pre-FA signings, yes, and because of his age Ohtani is considered that rather than a full-fledged FA a la the Matsui boys or Cubans of a certain age, etc. But the posting fee is separate from that. As Ben says, that money goes from MLB club to NPL club and is for a fixed amount. How much say does Otani actually get? Whatever signing bonus he can wrangle out of the club he chooses plus minimum pay (550 K or whatever it is now). Think of him as if he's a just-drafted player. Teams in the draft (first 10 rounds anyway) have a set total amount to spend which they can divide up any which way and for int'l players they also have a wad of cash to spend how they choose. But because the int'l 'window' to sign started July 1st, many teams, the Mets included, have already spent much of it so have little left over. The Rangers have the most, some $3.5 million, others have less than 100K

Centerfield Nov 29 2017 03:01 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

A few guys on the internets are saying Dodgers now. Imagine if the Dodgers get Ohtani and Stanton? Holy crap.

Ceetar Nov 29 2017 03:08 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Centerfield wrote: A few guys on the internets are saying Dodgers now. Imagine if the Dodgers get Ohtani and Stanton? Holy crap. literally listen to no one. There's pretty much zero info out there on what Ohtani actually wants, including to play the field, how much he expects/wants to hit, does he want big city or small, what type of lifestyle, is he looking to be the center of attention/#1 star or blend in? etc. Some teams have literally been scouting him, though to what extent they've formed a relationship with him is unknown, since 2012 or so. I found some interviews where he says he doesn't like walking down the streets in town and being accosted/known/famous. But maybe he's grown out of that by now. But does that mean he'd rather play in NYC where it's much easier to blend in on the streets because most people don't watch baseball anyway, or a smaller city where more people will know him but fewer will hassle him with the same intensity? This includes marketing. People push the idea of him being able to sell himself to Toyota for millions as part of the selling points, but is he actually looking to be that level of star?

A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2017 05:16 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Pretty good article here on the challenges Ohtani would face being a legit 2-way player. Assuming the Mets did submit a pitch, I would cut off a limb to see it.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 06:21 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The added challenge, is that he bats left handed meaning his pitching arm is sticking out there to get hit by pitches as a batter - a scary proposition for a team relying on his arm but using him as a part time hitter.

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 06:47 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So does Syndergaard. I'm sure there are pitchers who have had their careers damaged by their exposed wing getting hit by a pitch, but I sure can't think of one. Can you? I think there are bad scenarios which are easily imaginable, and so those are the ones we focus on preventing, instead of the ones that are statistically more likely to occur or statistically more likely to do the most damage.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 07:23 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Would we let Sydergaard play the outfield or even DH if he were our best option? I'm not sure. Because you are right that the statistical likelihood doeant factor into decision making. Lets pretend that Syndergaard would be worth half a win over the season if we used him as our #1 pinch hitter instead of whoever would get those ABs instead. But, if he gets hurt doing it, Jeff Wilpon fires you. Would you do it? Because unfortunately that is the "real" math I suspect they are doing in making these decisions.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 07:25 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Well, pitchers do pinch-hit and pinch-run. But Syndergaard is a good example. Would the Mets ever consider using him as a DH in an American League game? Maybe. We have a manager right now who's pretty much a blank slate at this point.

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 07:35 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I'd totally DH him. I'd probably use him as the #1 pinch hitter, too if he really was the best option. It's probably more true that the grind of pitching makes him a bad option to play the field the next day or two, more than the notion that the hitting interrupts his pitching. But when we're just talking about swinging the bat, there isn't as much downside if he's good. If he's with an AL team, bench him the day after his starts and DH him the next three days. There's also talk of limiting his starts to one per week (the Japanese standard), and so having more days to let the guy hit. But how you deploy him or don't deploy him all depends on how you assess him as either a hitter or a pitcher. Most reports suggests he's further along as a twirler, but different teams will assess that differently. Obviously pitching is a higher risk enterprise as well. He may be a pitcher/bench player for a few years, but after his arm wears down, he could gear up his hitting reps.

Ceetar Nov 30 2017 07:59 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Will be interesting to see if they like, skip a start here or there or if he actually gets hurt in a way that doesn't affect his swing. We could get injury updates on an active player!

A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2017 08:42 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

If you guys didn't see this, Ohtani's people sent a letter to all 30 clubs requesting the info below. The letter, sent to all 30 clubs Friday and obtained by The Times, asks for clubs to address seven non-financial points in their presentations: -An evaluation of Shohei’s talent as a pitcher and/or a hitter; -Player development, medical, training and player performance philosophies and capabilities; -Major League, Minor League, and Spring Training facilities; -Resources for Shohei’s cultural assimilation; -A detailed plan for integrating Shohei into the organization; -Why the city and franchise are a desirable place to play; -Relevant marketplace characteristics.” The Mets would have to lie their asses off a little of the 2nd point, but if those last 4 are truly important to Ohtani, and the Mets are truly serious about him, they should legit be a contender for his services with the Yankees, Dodgers, Rangers and Mariners. I would have Aoki, Nomo, Kaz Matsui, Dice-K, Mr. Sparkle all reach out to him and tell him how effing great the opportunities for Japanese players are in NYC and how easy it is to settle in in such a multi-cultural city. I would have Mickey, David Wright, Yo, deGrom and Thor all get in touch with him and tell him how they can't wait to play with him. I would send a video showing his smiling face plastered all over world-famous NY landmarks wearing blue and orange. I would have Kristaps Porzingis on this video wearing a goddamn Ohtani Mets jersey telling him, "Come to Queens, dude, do it!!" Then I'd ask Seinfeld, Rock, Jon Stewart and a bunch of other MLBS's to join in. I might even show an imaginary uniform retirement ceremony at the end of that vid. If you were the Mets, what would YOU reply with, specifically on last 4 points?

Ceetar Nov 30 2017 08:49 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The Mets _did_ announce a revamping of their medical process back in October. coincidence?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 08:53 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Probably a coincidence. Get O(h)tani in a room with Mickey Callaway and he'll be begging to join the Mets.

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 09:02 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

It's a good coincidence? Who was the Japanese player the Mets had (or sought) that had a wife whose whole gig seemed to be taking pictures with food? Or was it a Korean? Dae-sung Koo?

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 10:08 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I don't even remember Koo. Jae Weong Seo was awesome for a little while.

Ceetar Nov 30 2017 10:11 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Edgy MD wrote: It's a good coincidence? Who was the Japanese player the Mets had (or sought) that had a wife whose whole gig seemed to be taking pictures with food? Or was it a Korean? Dae-sung Koo? Mukbang (or muk-bang; Korean: 먹방; meokbang; lit. "eating show") is an online audiovisual broadcast in which a host eats large quantities of food while interacting with their audience. Usually done through an internet webcast (such streaming platforms include Afreeca), mukbang became popular in South Korea in the 2010s.[1][2][3] Foods ranging from pizza to noodles are consumed in front of a camera for an internet audience (who pay or not, depending on which platform one is watching).

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 10:13 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Nymr83 wrote: I don't even remember Koo. Jae Weong Seo was awesome for a little while. Dae-sung Koo was super-awesome for about two and a half minutes. [youtube]XRoKDDKkKoc[/youtube]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2017 10:28 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Another baseball moment that would be ruined by replay. Friggin Meintkiewicz with the towel.

bmfc1 Dec 03 2017 11:18 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Everyone ass-umed that he'd be a MFY because isn't that everyone's dream? Well, apparently it's not Ohtani's dream: [tweet:2769qfzo]https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/937460204173692928[/tweet:2769qfzo]

Edgy MD Dec 04 2017 12:14 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Trying to trace the source of that scoop. Looks like Bryan Hoch but I'm not sure. Mainly it's unclear if the Mariners and Giants are the finalists, or merely among the finalists.

Edgy MD Dec 04 2017 12:53 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Joel is also reporting the dream is over in Metland. [tweet:1yp9h0lc]https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/937467640192303105[/tweet:1yp9h0lc] The big doofus probably wanted a tent.

Centerfield Dec 04 2017 04:20 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Well if that’s the case let’s hope he goes to an AL team. Would love to see him succeed. Especially at the expense of the MFYs.

Lefty Specialist Dec 04 2017 01:18 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Supposedly wants a small market, West Coast team. Seattle appears to be the likely destination. I can live with that.

bmfc1 Dec 04 2017 01:19 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Seattle really wants him and we've read that he doesn't want a "big market" so I suspect that he wants to go to Seattle but there are big market teams still on this list to drive up the price: [tweet:bx849new]https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/937671446729510912[/tweet:bx849new]

Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2017 01:59 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I never figured he'd be a Met, so seeing both New York teams ruled out is actually good news, because the Yankees always seemed more likely. I'd like to see him go to Seattle.

Lefty Specialist Dec 04 2017 02:10 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Given how well Ichiro did and was treated in Seattle, it's a pretty strong selling point. And Mariners aren't afraid to spend now and then, like on Cano.

Edgy MD Dec 04 2017 02:28 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

bmfc1 wrote: Seattle really wants him and we've read that he doesn't want a "big market" so I suspect that he wants to go to Seattle but there are big market teams still on this list to drive up the price: [tweet]https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/937671446729510912[/tweet] Well, you had to have expected that the Padres would be right in the mix at the end.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 04 2017 03:34 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

A smaller market is the thing... but Chicago and LA are still front-runners? And how is he driving up the price? His price is capped.

Ceetar Dec 04 2017 03:36 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I'm trying to balance this "doesn't want a big market/center of attention" thing with the free for all 'The Decision' nature of this posting.

Edgy MD Dec 04 2017 04:05 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I think the doesn't-want-a-big-market notion is baseball pundits doing some after-the-fact rationalizing to fill in gaps about what they know. The favors-the-west-coast certainly seems to be backed up, though. You have five of the six PT teams in the final seven, excluding only the perpetually broke Athletics.

Nymr83 Dec 08 2017 07:22 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

ESPN reports Ohtani to the Angels! glad its not the Yankees or an NL team. excited to see if this guy can really pitch AND hit well.

smg58 Dec 08 2017 08:07 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

His strikeout rate (as a hitter) in Japan is a bit of a red flag. I bet that, much like Kaz Matsui, he can turn on a fastball but he'll struggle when pitchers start throwing him a steady diet of breaking pitches. The other red flag is the lack of innings pitched; can he hold up to a full season's workload? Still, the talent is there if you're willing to treat him as a high-end prospect and not as an established star. I'm not sure that's how most Angels fans are going to view it, but I think that's the realistic approach.

seawolf17 Dec 08 2017 08:09 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

smg58 wrote: Still, the talent is there if you're willing to treat him as a high-end prospect and not as an established star. I'm not sure that's how most Angels fans are going to view it, but I think that's the realistic approach. This. You can't exactly just stick him in AAA, but expecting him to start 35 games and throw 230 innings in 2018 is a bit much.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2017 12:44 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Nymr83 wrote: ESPN reports Ohtani to the Angels! So much for the doesn't-want-a-big-market angle.

bmfc1 Dec 09 2017 02:02 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

So the #2 team in a big market gets a big name in an attempt to not only get better but attract more fans... imagine that.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2017 03:34 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

It happens.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2017 05:19 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Jeff Passan reporting that the Angels have detected a first-degree sprain of Ohtani's UCL. Man, sometimes I think those things just get messed up just by signing with an American organization.

smg58 Dec 13 2017 04:13 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

That's a huge red flag. He pitched 25 IP last year, and he is a TJS waiting to happen. And I don't think his bat will be better than adequate here. Glad he preferred the West Coast.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2017 05:01 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Edgy MD wrote: Jeff Passan reporting that the Angels have detected a first-degree sprain of Ohtani's UCL. Man, sometimes I think those things just get messed up just by signing with an American organization. Could you imagine the shitshow if he'd signed here and THAT was the first news that came out? Crikey.

Ashie62 Dec 13 2017 05:23 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

He received platelet rich plasma injections in November . Common in Japan. This procedure saved the asses of Chris Sale and Mashiro Tanaka. Scary stuff for a 23 year old in a new country. Can I say maybe the kid is "overrated."? We shall see. Glad for his sake he is on the west coast. I kinda think he may not be mature enough to adapt to everyday life in the northeast.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 13 2017 06:38 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Man, for the $20M posting fee, the scant signing bonus, and league minimum salary, I'd still take this dude in a split second.

Frayed Knot Mar 20 2018 11:43 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ohtani's ST stats: - batting: 2 for 24, both singles, with 9 Ks - pitching:2.2 IP, 9 R (8 ER) on 9 Hits and 2 BBs (5 K) Yeah it's ST and it's small sample, but it's also quite possible he starts out the season in the minors.

seawolf17 Mar 21 2018 01:10 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Frayed Knot wrote: Ohtani's ST stats: - batting: 2 for 24, both singles, with 9 Ks - pitching:2.2 IP, 9 R (8 ER) on 9 Hits and 2 BBs (5 K) Yeah it's ST and it's small sample, but it's also quite possible he starts out the season in the minors. Could you imagine if he was in PSL with those stats? People would be going bananas.

Edgy MD Mar 21 2018 03:31 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

That's a helluva thought. Hitting like Tebow, pitching like Griffin, all in one!

Edgy MD Mar 30 2018 04:55 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ohtani picked up a hit on the first pitch he saw. Finished 1-5 as a DH, but we'll see what's really going on when he starts on the mound Sunday against Oakland.

Frayed Knot Apr 01 2018 08:47 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

3R HR in his 2nd inning of work. And, no, he's not in the lineup on the occasion of his first ever MLB start (Pujols is DH'ing). I don't believe he hit on his pitching days in Japan either, or even in the day or two prior to his pitching days.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 02 2018 02:57 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

We watched most of his start. Rocky for sure, but his stuff is undeniable. Super easy 99/100, scary slider, weird splitter looking pitch. He's gonna be just fine.

Frayed Knot Apr 02 2018 06:45 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

And that 3R job turned out to be the only runs he gave up on the day. And he got the win.

Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2018 02:31 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ohtani threw strikes and had pretty good command from what I watched. He touched 99-100 on the radar gun so he has serious gas. He has a wicked splitter that just seems unfair after the fastball. He looks deceptive, in that his motion looks pretty smooth and I would never have thought he was throwing as hard as he was until the radar gun readings kept popping up. It will be intersting to see how he does going forward. He definitely has a big time arm.

Frayed Knot Apr 04 2018 10:35 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ohtani = 3-for-4 including a 3R HR in his second game as DH It could have been a GS but for the wild pitch that moved all the runners up earlier in the AB And, yes, his teammates gave him the silent treatment on his return to the dugout. Now 4-9 thus far in the young season w/2 Ks to go with the HR He did not hit on the day he pitched.

Frayed Knot Apr 05 2018 01:39 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

2/5 with another HR for Ohtani today (Wed). Now 6/14 with the 2 HRs and just 3 strikeouts. Plus there's that whole pitching win thing. And to think that he spring was so unimpressive that there was talk of starting him off in the minors.

MFS62 Apr 08 2018 10:09 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

After hitting home runs in three consecutive games, he is pitching in Anaheim against the A's today. Its in the bottom of the sixth. As Red Barber used to say, "There have been seven hits in the game and the Angels have all of them". Later

MFS62 Apr 08 2018 10:29 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Marcus Semien singled to left to break up the no-no in the top of the 7th. Ohtani IS human, after all. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 08 2018 10:58 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

1 hit, 1 BB, 12K in 7 innings and almost certainly a 'W' (LAA up 6-0 after 8) -- how's that to cap off a week which also includes 3 HRs? As Channel 11 sportscaster Jerry Girard once said about Wayne Gretzky: 'He's just been named player of the week ... for next week'

batmagadanleadoff Apr 09 2018 03:33 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

As Channel 11 sportscaster Jerry Girard once said about Wayne Gretzky: 'He's just been named player of the week ... for next week' Jerry Girard was great, wasn't he?

Frayed Knot Apr 09 2018 03:58 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The two quotes I remember most from him were the Gretzky one from above and also the times he'd announce that 'Dave Kingman was attacked by another fly ball in left field today' over the latest clip of DK losing one in the sun or just having one clank off his glove.

Lefty Specialist Apr 10 2018 12:47 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

https://sports.theonion.com/annoyed-sho ... lMarketing

Nymr83 Apr 11 2018 03:10 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Ohtani has been amazing early on, but tonight in a pinch hitting appearance he met his match - BARTOLO GETS THE GROUNDOUT!

Frayed Knot Apr 14 2018 01:13 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Tripled last night, has doubled already tonight. It remains to be seen what happens as he gets to the second time around the league, but this is stunning so far. .346/.414/.769 in 26 ABs coming into today's action (so not including today's leadoff 2B)

MFS62 Apr 18 2018 02:15 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

The first batter he faced tonight was Mookie Betts, who hit a home run. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 18 2018 10:27 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

And the night only got better from there for Betts: 2 more HRs (neither off Ohtani); but worse from there for Ohtani: 66 pitches just to get through 2 IP: 3 Runs, 4 Hits, 2 Walks, and then left game due to "blister" problems (or so they say) First rough night for him on an MLB mound, something which may or may not have to do with the blister or with facing the hot Sox. His other two ML starts both came against Oakland ... and he's still hitting .367/424/.767 -- 11/30 w/5 XBHs

Edgy MD Jun 11 2018 03:57 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Reports say he's likely looking down the barrell of Tommy John surgery.

Vic Sage Jun 11 2018 04:04 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

This sucks. He was doing something historic, and now people who said he couldn't be both a hitter AND a pitcher will say "told you so." Which also sucks.

41Forever Jun 11 2018 05:17 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Vic Sage wrote: This sucks. He was doing something historic, and now people who said he couldn't be both a hitter AND a pitcher will say "told you so." Which also sucks. Absolutely. Was a wonderful story for baseball. Hoping he comes back and is just as good. Whenever we think the Mets are stalked by bad luck, an Angels fan might disagree.

metirish Jun 11 2018 06:38 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Vic Sage wrote: This sucks. He was doing something historic, and now people who said he couldn't be both a hitter AND a pitcher will say "told you so." Which also sucks. Smoltz was pushing this a little during the game saturday....anyway, from an article on AOL.... Ohtani has a history of right elbow issues that was known among MLB teams when they were pursuing him during the offseason. Yahoo Sports reported in December that Ohtani had a less-severe Grade 1 UCL sprain as of Nov. 28 and received a PRP injection on Oct. 20. https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/0 ... /23456153/

Centerfield Jun 11 2018 07:39 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Vic Sage wrote: This sucks. He was doing something historic, and now people who said he couldn't be both a hitter AND a pitcher will say "told you so." Which also sucks. Well the logic is undeniable. 100% of two-way players in MLB required Tommy John surgery this year. Clearly it's playing 2 ways that messes you up. If you just concentrate on pitching you're totally fine.

smg58 Jun 11 2018 07:55 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Well in baseball's major league, pitchers swing the bat all the time. The UCL was a known red flag with Ohtani, so while the development is very unfortunate, it was not improbable or unforeseeable.

MFS62 Jun 12 2018 02:18 AM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

smg58 wrote: Well in baseball's major league, pitchers swing the bat all the time. That doesn't get a BOC. It gets a standing ovation. Later

seawolf17 Jun 12 2018 12:47 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Could you imagine what we'd be doing right now if Ohtani *had* signed here and this happened in June? Citi Field would be pitchfork city.

smg58 Jun 12 2018 01:04 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Eh, we'd shrug our shoulders just like with every other injury. I don't envy the Angels' manager and GM, though. Even when fully healthy, handling Ohtani presents a unique set of challenges. And the challenges are that much greater now. I still think he has more long-term upside as a pitcher, but if you do what probably needs to be done with the UCL you'll lose him as a hitter for a year, too. You could restrict him to hitting for a while and hope that the UCL heals on it's own, but that's a gamble. And of course, you know who gets blamed if things don't go perfectly.

Edgy MD Jun 12 2018 01:13 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

smg58 wrote: Eh, we'd shrug our shoulders just like with every other injury. I don't think the culture around the Mets encourages shrugging, but rather looking to link any and all injuries to malpractice and misuse by the organization.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 12 2018 01:16 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I agree. Some would shrug, but many more would express angst.

Centerfield Jun 12 2018 01:46 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

If Ohtani had gone to the Mets, he wouldn't have needed something as mundane Tommy John. He would have contracted Valley Fever, or Thoracic Outlet, or Spinal Stenosis, or some other injury that nobody has ever heard of that leaves you a shell of your former self.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 12 2018 01:50 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

It is interesting to see that the spate of injuries has continued even without Ray Ramirez causing them.

Edgy MD Jun 12 2018 01:58 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

While I found Ray to mostly be an unfortunate scapegoat, I found it real weird that they just promoted his assistant to replace him. If you really believe the injury rate can be traced to him, wouldn't you want to make a clean break, let go of his underlings too, and hire an all-new staff with an all-new philosophy?

smg58 Jun 12 2018 03:15 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Oh I've done plenty of scapegoating and questioning my deity's team loyalties. And it's not like the Mets have had better luck in that regard this year (both catchers getting hurt the same day, they can't get Cespedes back on the field, every right-handed hitter out at the same time, they bring in Vargas and he gets hurt in the spring, they bring in Swarzak and he gets hurt the first week of the season, etc.) This can't go on indefinitely, right?

Centerfield Jun 12 2018 03:23 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I don't think anyone realistically believed that Ray Ramirez actually caused injuries, but one of the big complaints was how they were handled once injured. Playing hurt, coming back too early, or, conversely, taking forever to get back on the field. We have no way of knowing if Ray Ramirez was a contributing factor, but we also don't know that he wasn't. The Mets are perfectly within their rights to go a different direction. But yes, your point is dead on. If you have an issue with the philosophy, it doesn't make sense to promote his first in command. Or maybe they did just scapegoat him. Who knows.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 12 2018 03:52 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

Centerfield wrote: But yes, your point is dead on. If you have an issue with the philosophy, it doesn't make sense to promote his first in command. Well, the assistant may not have agreed with his boss' approach.

Centerfield Jun 12 2018 03:57 PM Re: Show Me Shohei O(h)tani

I guess that's true! "He went splint there? No way, I would have definitely gone ace bandage."