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Sleazeball thread

cooby Nov 10 2017 01:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2017 01:53 PM

On one hand as a woman I'm sick of what is rapidly becoming an epidemic of allegations against men that are sleaze balls. As a human I'm sick of allegations from women that should have walked away. Feel free guys. Say what you want because you will get no judgement from me. I can't believe a couple of girls would go to a mans room, watch him jack off, laugh about it and then years later bring it up. Though it sickens me to know it happened. Use some damn judgement 'ladies'

Nymr83 Nov 10 2017 01:42 AM Re: Sick of this shit

There are a lot of men who do sleazy things thinking they can get away with it. Women should speak up, it would be better if they felt comfortable speaking up sooner. There are also some women who lie for personal gain (or out of embarrassment) about something that was actually consensual. Shame on them because their bullshit casts doubt on what the real victims have to say. And of course, there is the media - eagerly libeling and slandering away, in the knowledge that the burden of proof lies with the celebrity to disprove any poorly sourced story they choose to run.

cooby Nov 10 2017 01:54 AM Re: Sick of this shit

That's just it nymr!! Why do they wait years and claim they thought it was 'creepy but funny'. I've talked about this with my husband. There was s time not so very long ago that sexual 'innuendo' was common and not (sometimes) considered creepy. And it went both ways. masturbation in front of a semi stranger is sexual manipulation and if these two girls sat there and laughed then that is strange. If they were in a secluded spot and alone with this guy then she would have had to adjust and fight for herself. That is the difference here. And that is a big difference

cooby Nov 10 2017 02:01 AM Re: Sick of this shit

And on the women's side, sometimes there is a reason for silence. And that is shame. Holy crap how did I stumble into this? But they should not wait decades to bring it out

Nymr83 Nov 10 2017 02:13 AM Re: Sick of this shit

There are many valid reasons to wait though. Maybe you are afraid that if you rat out the [crossout:2gbjxkbn]governor of arkansas[/crossout:2gbjxkbn] powerful person, [crossout:2gbjxkbn]his crazy politically motivated wife[/crossout:2gbjxkbn] someone will harm you to protect their own interests

cooby Nov 10 2017 02:18 AM Re: Sick of this shit

Yes I know. And silence on your own part seems prudent. But really are all men this way? I know my husband isn't. And I trust you guys aren't. So am I just the lucky one?

cooby Nov 10 2017 02:22 AM Re: Sick of this shit

And FYI I imagine the lot of you, as well as Mr cooby, are decent, regular guys. So should we assume all public figures are corrupted? I am starting to wonder :(

Ceetar Nov 10 2017 02:29 AM Re: Sick of this shit

cooby wrote: That's just it nymr!! Why do they wait years and claim they thought it was 'creepy but funny'. Because if you objected to it, you were thought less of. If it bothered you, you were probably told to chill out. As a society we basically told women 'fuck off and take what we give you' to the point that they believed it. We can joke about knocking you around, or make advances and jokes and suggestions about what you should to do/for us because women were considered lesser, not equal. And then women started getting sick of it and one or two started standing up for themselves. And others saw, and realized they didn't have to stay silent either. That what they'd suppressed or lived with or managed wasn't actually okay, or just the way things are. And spoke up. Some of them, probably even most of the ones from years and years ago are pretty much over it, but speak up so that that becomes the norm and women today don't feel they have to just shut up and take it. At some point speaking up in the workplace about a superior doing something to you would get YOU fired. But women speak up so that it's the harasser, not the harassee, that suffers. This isn't unique to women/harassment either. People are tired of sick of just taking this crap and moving on, whether it's racism, police killings, workplace sexual harassment, or anything else. I know it feels like we're getting nowhere with gun violence, and maybe the people objecting are still powerless in some ways, but we're not going to let it die and go back to the way things were. It WILL change.

SwitchHitter Nov 11 2017 12:41 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Because /then/ it was a different climate. In 1989 when I reported the supervisor who offered me weekend use of a work computer in exchange for a blowjob, I was told it was "a joke" and to chill. And /I/ was reassigned. When, in 1990, my then-separated-but-not-yet-divorced husband broke into my apartment and physically threatened me, he was charged with "domestic violence" (which is a misdemeanor) and not any of the felonies a stranger would have been. Then, the prosecutor's office put heavy pressure on me to until I dropped the charges. Nowadays, neither of those would fly but then ... Remember that "decades ago" it was a different world. And at what point does it become "the right time" to come forward? I'm not comfortable with this sort of thing either, but I do see why someone might choose to remain silent in the beginning and maybe continue silence until they become the second or third person to speak up. Because sometimes when you do come forward, the shit you have to deal with is sooo not worth it.

cooby Nov 12 2017 07:34 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Sorry to hear you've been a victim SwitchHitter. No woman should have to put up with that in the "noncelebrity" world either! Okay, guys now that you've all had the chance to think about and respond (or not, and that's okay) to this, here is the second half of the equation. How about the scores of women who willingly pose nude or perform nude on film for millions of people to see? I'm not talking about private pictures, I am talking about R rated movies or worse, girly magazines, tons of stuff on the internet. I'm sick of that shit too So, in light of that, why should these dickhead guys (and yes I still think that, but I don't have a high opinion of a lot of female celebrities either) think that approaching women with such requests should be offensive? Gotta say, I'd be confused if I were a guy in that industry.

Lefty Specialist Nov 12 2017 11:42 PM Re: Sick of this shit

cooby wrote: Sorry to hear you've been a victim SwitchHitter. No woman should have to put up with that in the "noncelebrity" world either! Okay, guys now that you've all had the chance to think about and respond (or not, and that's okay) to this, here is the second half of the equation. How about the scores of women who willingly pose nude or perform nude on film for millions of people to see? I'm not talking about private pictures, I am talking about R rated movies or worse, girly magazines, tons of stuff on the internet. I'm sick of that shit too So, in light of that, why should these dickhead guys (and yes I still think that, but I don't have a high opinion of a lot of female celebrities either) think that approaching women with such requests should be offensive? Gotta say, I'd be confused if I were a guy in that industry. I think you have to divide these to an extent. As for R-rated movies, if a struggling actress does a nude part to help her career, it's kind of her choice. Sucks that it has to be that way, but it is. That leads into the 'Weinstein question'. Would you let him do what he does and keep quiet about it for the sake of your career? I would imagine that some people would say 'hell no', some people would say 'if he doesn't touch me and I can just get through it, and it gets me a big role in next year's summer blockbuster, I'll do it'. I'm betting a lot of people made those choices and have decided not to go the #metoo route because they're ashamed of what they did. Look at it from a baseball perspective; guys put all kinds of stuff into their body so that they could get a payday down the road. Every NFL player knows that what he's doing today will lead to brain injury; yet they still do it. People make choices, and balance risk and reward. This is not to defend any of it. Movies with nudity aren't going away anytime soon. Some actresses have strict no-nudity clauses, and some actresses get boob jobs so that they'll be noticed. If you get into the 'girly magazines and other stuff on the internet' side of it, while some of these women say they're strong proponents of the beauty of the human body, I'd expect that most of them got into it to make a buck, or their boyfriends roped them into it, or they're abused or using drugs. I think very few teenage girls say "I want to be an adult film star some day". There's less of a choice on this side of the ledger- if they're not out and out forced into it, they're guided into it and find it hard to escape into a normal life afterwards. There are a lot of dickhead guys out there. There are also dickhead women who are enablers for them, too. EVERYBODY knew what Kevin Spacey was doing, but nobody wanted to shut down the 'House of Cards' gravy train.

Nymr83 Nov 13 2017 01:18 AM Re: Sick of this shit

How about the scores of women who willingly pose nude or perform nude on film for millions of people to see? I'm not talking about private pictures, I am talking about R rated movies or worse, girly magazines, tons of stuff on the internet. I'm sick of that shit too So, in light of that, why should these dickhead guys (and yes I still think that, but I don't have a high opinion of a lot of female celebrities either) think that approaching women with such requests should be offensive? Gotta say, I'd be confused if I were a guy in that industry. the issue, to me, is when the man doing the approaching is her boss, or in a position to be her boss, like a director casting a film. someone who doesn't have authority over you is allowed to hit on you, even in an uncomfortable way.

Ceetar Nov 13 2017 03:19 AM Re: Sick of this shit

cooby wrote: So, in light of that, why should these dickhead guys (and yes I still think that, but I don't have a high opinion of a lot of female celebrities either) think that approaching women with such requests should be offensive? Gotta say, I'd be confused if I were a guy in that industry. If we both worked at Starbucks I wouldn't have any problem realizing I have no right to demand you get me a latte anytime I want one.

metsmarathon Nov 13 2017 03:19 PM Re: Sick of this shit

you should never have to feel that in order to have a successful career, you should allow yourself to be raped. or groped. or perved on. or stripped. i don't understand the point about women posing nude, or performing nude, or doing stuff on the internet. every day, there are millions of women taking a shower. it does not mean that they want to take a shower with me, or have me in their shower with them, or let me just watch them take a shower, or have me make them take a shower. even if a woman performs a shower scene in a movie that i have seen, it does not mean that any and all future showering events of hers are open to my participation and/or viewing. i think there is a big difference, too, between performing nude, or performing a simulated sex act in a movie, and being stripped and/or sexed upon in order to get a role in a movie (particularly one which does not involve stripping and/or sexing). i also think that having women perform nude and/or sex acts in movies is a massive power play by the men in the biz, as evidenced by the relative lack of male nudity in film and television, but that's a tangential issue. those performers in a movie have chosen to perform in that movie; those hoping for a career who are pressured into nudity and/or sex have that agency stripped of them. and the porn industry (particularly the internet porn industry) is a disgusting black hole of human trafficking. i would wager that a mere fraction of what you could see on the internets is truly consensual, for all parties. it should not at all be used to justify anything. and even if it was all perfectly on the up and up, between all parties fully capable of giving consent and having full autonomy and agency, willingly and willfully partcipating... if i go to a circus and see some dude shove a sword down his throat, willingly and happily, does that give me a right to shove any kind of blade down his throat, or anyone else's? no. I don't think for a minute - not even a gosh darned second - that any of these dickhead men in "hollywood" are confused by what they're allowed to do. it's all about what they can get away with - what they have the power to get away with. for decades (millenai?) that power has enabled them to get away with far too much. and i'm damned glad to see the tables turned.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 13 2017 03:40 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Yes, it's good that this is coming out in the open. And I agree that women doing nude scenes on camera should have nothing to do with this. That notion is getting perilously close to the "blame the victim" defense that accused rapists have used. "Look at how she was dressed! Look at what part of town she was in!" Even if a beautiful woman is walking completely naked down Broadway at noon, men who see her have the right to look, but nothing else. No hooting, no grabbing, no masturbating. (I guess the hooting part is legal, but it's still not right.)

Edgy MD Nov 13 2017 03:46 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Hollywood is something like a two-class industry. Some are fabulously wealthy, and the rest are desperately scraping to get by. But they tend to have a surfeit of youth and beauty. The vulnerability to coercion is overwhelming. And even many or most of those who are getting work live in terror that their last job was their last job. There's a reason YOU'LL NEVER WORK IN THIS TOWN AGAIN! is a cliché. It's the gun hanging over everybody's head if they don't play ball. And ball is whatever it is, and humans being humans, ball is often sexual favors. My wife worked in theater for a few years. What we saw was disgusting.

cooby Nov 13 2017 06:05 PM Re: Sick of this shit

I'm glad this got us thinking. My point is that there are women out there that willingly cheapen themselves, and thereby cheapen all women. It's just the way it is. And BG your woman walking down Broadway would be, I'd say, one of them. Naked for all the world to see, not a private thing for a lover or spouse. And in doing so she brings society down a little bit more and all women become fair game for sick guys who see the Broadway walker and think we are all that way. And there are a lot of sick guys out there....

Ceetar Nov 13 2017 06:43 PM Re: Sick of this shit

women are not commodities and therefore can't be _cheapened_ by their own personal choices about their own bodies.

metsmarathon Nov 13 2017 06:51 PM Re: Sick of this shit

on the last point i disagree. just the other day, i was at my local stop and shop. and at the end of one of the aisles, was a nice old lady giving out samples of some prepared food product, i forget which. it was tasty and i enjoyed it. it did not make me think in any way that all of the food in the store should also be free, or that i should no longer be required to pay for any food if i so choose. nor did it cause me to think that i was entitled to any more of that prepared food product, either the remaining free samples at the table or the packages for sale in the aisle. and if someone did come to have those ideas as a result of either tasting the prepared food product, or even knowing of its availability, then the blame for that would fall neither to the prepared food product, nor the little old lady offering it for all the store to try. i mean, would we really have the same reaction to a man walking naked down the street, that he's devaluing all other men by allowing his private thing to be seen by all?

A Boy Named Seo Nov 14 2017 04:11 PM Re: Sick of this shit

There's a lot of noise in this thread, I think. Nudity for the sake of art or even for self-expression, is not an invitation to sex or anything related to sex. I've been to nude beaches before in my travels, but a naked woman sunning herself is not an invitation to me to come be a dude just because she's naked.

Lefty Specialist Nov 21 2017 01:21 AM Re: Sick of this shit

Well, you can add Charlie Rose and Glenn Thrush of the New York Times to the 'shit list'. They're coming fast and furious now.

cooby Nov 21 2017 01:39 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Don't know glen thrush but holy cow it IS getting ridiculous! And yet Teflon Don remains

Mets Willets Point Nov 21 2017 05:08 PM Re: Sick of this shit

Lefty Specialist wrote: They're coming fast and furious now. In mixed company and without consent.

Lefty Specialist Nov 22 2017 02:56 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Our next contestant: John Lassiter of Pixar and Walt Disney Animation. Taking a little 6-month sabbatical to deal with his problems which tend to run along the lines of drinking too much and groping women. And the beat goes on.

MFS62 Nov 22 2017 11:56 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Didn't Jimmy Carter once admit, "I lusted in my heart"? That's where it should stay. And in your pants. There is no excuse. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2017 12:28 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Matt Lauer ... GONE! "after a colleague complained about inappropriate sexual behavior", NBC News chief Andrew Lack said in a memo published on Wednesday’s show. This was the first time an employee had complained about Lauer during his 20 years at TODAY Lack continued, but executives believe there would be more allegations.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2017 01:29 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

In a staff memo, NBC News chairman Andrew Lack said the network received “a detailed” complaint about Lauer Monday night. “It represented, after serious review, a clear violation of our company’s standards. As a result, we’ve decided to terminate his employment.” Lack added: “While it is the first complaint about his behavior in the over twenty years he’s been at NBC News, we were also presented with reason to believe this may not have been an isolated incident.” It seems to me that a "serious review" takes place over more time than 24 hours, and they seem to be more trying to get ahead of the story, but on the other hand, maybe he copped to it, and maybe it was really bad.

metirish Nov 29 2017 02:21 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Nothing surprises anymore, I think they are lighting the Xmas tree tonight ?

Edgy MD Nov 29 2017 02:26 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

His reputation as a womanizer goes way back, and while being dubious on one hand that a "serious review" can happen in one day, I'm just as dubious that this is their "first complaint."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2017 03:48 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Yeah way back in 97 I had a coworker who met him at a party or something and relayed his horndogginess to me.

Nymr83 Nov 29 2017 05:15 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Edgy MD wrote: His reputation as a womanizer goes way back, and while being dubious on one hand that a "serious review" can happen in one day, I'm just as dubious that this is their "first complaint." this could be the first official complaint. the others were swept under the rug by HR as the accusers were pressured not to put anything in writing

41Forever Nov 29 2017 05:54 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/garrison-keillor-says-fired-over-alleged-improper-behavior/2017/11/29/433fc97a-d52a-11e7-9ad9-ca0619edfa05_story.html?utm_term=.3d6bc45e6567 Add Garrison Keillor to the list.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2017 06:03 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

That came after him publishing a typically wry and poetic but not particularly convincing defense of Senator Franken. But again, I'm sort of alarmed at how fast and final these decisions are coming, and wondering how much these actions relate to a newfound moral sensibility and how much they're about an aversion to litigation. And at some level, I wonder whether the distinction makes that much of a difference.

metirish Nov 29 2017 08:56 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Yeah, a lot of stuff to come , Variety has been working on an article about Laur for 5 months , NBC knew this. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ive-figure

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2017 09:07 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

metirish wrote: Yeah, a lot of stuff to come , Variety has been working on an article about Laur for 5 months , NBC knew this. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ive-figure IOW: this was NOT the first NBC knew about it, it's just the first time they had to deal with the prospect of it becoming public knowledge.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2017 09:46 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

More details in this article: Matt Lauer Gave Co-Worker Sex Toy, Exposed Himself to Employee, Plus 4 More Bombshells in Variety Report * Gifting a sex toy to a female colleague, along with “an explicit note about how he wanted to use it on her” * Asking another female co-worker to come to his office, where he exposed his penis to her and then castigated her for not taking part in a sexual act * Repeatedly texting and saying risque comments regarding women’s bodies and looks * Engaging in a game called “F–k, marry, kill” in which he’d describe which of his female co-hosts he’d want to sleep with * Making use of a “button under his desk that allowed him to lock his door from the inside without getting up” in order to sexually harass women he summoned to his office, secure that no one would walk in on them * Habitually inviting female NBC employees to his hotel room while covering the Olympic games in various cities Every office I've worked in for the last couple of decades (at least) has had glass windows on every office or conference room, presumably so that no sex or violence can occur without at least the possibility of someone witnessing it. Matt Lauer, it seems, didn't have glass windows in his office and even had a button installed in his desk to make it easier for him to harass women! I'd love to see the requisition from NBC's files from when he requested to have that button installed.

cooby Nov 29 2017 10:04 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

?? How did that work?

Lefty Specialist Nov 29 2017 11:14 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

There'd been rumors about Lauer for a while so this isn't a surprise. But the depth of his piggishness is a little disturbing.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2017 11:20 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

It's amazing that these guys are considered so indispensable that they get multiple-year contracts with salaries in the tens of millions, and their bosses look the other way when they turn the office into their playpen. The only skill they need is literacy with an ability to figure out what to do with their hands. They're a dime a dozen. If Lauer was replaced by Donnie Most at any time over the last 20 years — you just woke up one morning and Ralph Malph was interviewing Dan Brown instead of Matt — what would be the downside?

cooby Nov 29 2017 11:29 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: ?? How did that work? Never mind. I read your bullets

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2017 12:41 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

So what do you suppose Lauer was thinking when, over the past few weeks, his job was to read stories about O'Reilly going down, and then Weinstein, and Franken, and etc. ... that HE would be the one to get away with all this crap?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 01:44 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

I've been wondering that very same thing.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 01:56 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

yeah, this wasn't some one-time allegation where the denial route might work, it sounds like he had a looooooooooong history of fire-able offenses

Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2017 02:02 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Powerful people think they're bulletproof. Right now there are other powerful men who are guilty but think they'll get away with it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 30 2017 05:42 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Not that actual incidents aren't serious, but the most damning thing to me is the door button. I mean, you might as well write "Rape Button" in the service requisition for that, no?

cooby Nov 30 2017 10:37 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

I have a feeling the sports world is next. ESPN, pro players, college coaches, etc

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 12:33 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: I have a feeling the sports world is next. ESPN, pro players, college coaches, etc Wife beater Reyes had no problem finding a job again, some people were even happy to have him back. Players who do bad things will always be welcome, as long as they are talented enough - Drew Brees could get away with something like this, Josh McCown could not.

Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2017 02:14 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Someone made a good point about the constituency being important. A TV network, knowing that a star going bad can impact them directly, has an incentive to buy off or intimidate accusers. If that doesn't work, then fire the star. That's what happened at Fox News and NBC. A politician has a different constituency- the voters. If enough of them turn against you over allegations, you're toast. Donald Trump had all these allegations against him last year (including admitting to sexual assault on video!) and people voted for him anyway. He takes that as validation. It's why he can embrace a Roy Moore and criticize an Al Franken. He feels he's innocent in the court of public opinion. Sports stars are transactional. If they're good, like a Ben Roethlisberger, they get away with it. No Steeler fan wants to lose Big Ben for any reason.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 02:30 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

The other thing is that male sports stars have few female co-workers. I suppose the reason that this tends to be a workplace thing is because the woman are in the difficult position of having to see their harassers every day and they can't just walk away without jeopardizing their careers.

MFS62 Nov 30 2017 02:36 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Frayed Knot wrote: So what do you suppose Lauer was thinking when, over the past few weeks, his job was to read stories about O'Reilly going down, and then Weinstein, and Franken, and etc. ... that HE would be the one to get away with all this crap? Somewhere, Ann Curry must be smiling. There were many stories when she left the Today Show that were surprised she never told why she left. Many thought that lack of chemistry, the reason the network gave, didn't tell the whole story. Later

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 02:40 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The other thing is that male sports stars have few female co-workers. Yeah, it's a distinction that Roethlesberger isn't alleged (to my knowledge) to have been engaging in predatory behavior where he works. Roethlesberger assaults a woman, and that places him in legal and liability jeopardy. That's embarrassing to the team, but they may cynically calculate that as long as their fans are coming out Sunday to watch him win (and sports spending is one of the few places in the household where men tend to make the discretionary spending decisions), then we can go forward with him. But if you shit in the house, you make for a hostile workplace, and the corporation has traditionally been exposed to a deeper level of liability. That's not the typical model of most sports miscreants, but a bunch of college coaches and Isaiah Thomas and Steve Phillips and Jeff Wilpon (to a lesser extent) suggest that it's certainly not foreign.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 02:42 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The other thing is that male sports stars have few female co-workers. I suppose the reason that this tends to be a workplace thing is because the woman are in the difficult position of having to see their harassers every day and they can't just walk away without jeopardizing their careers. It doeant need to be a co-worker per se, someone with whom you have a business relationship still counts - say a female reporter cobwring your press conference

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 02:47 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

True. But I think that athletes get fewer opportunities to be a jerk in these kinds of situations than they do elsewhere, which would explain why this has had more of an effect on politics and entertainment. (I'm including TV news in the entertainment category, for obvious reasons.) I hope that this movement extends beyond celebrities. I can only imagine how many hotel maids, waitresses, teachers, nurses, etc. have to deal with stuff like this. It's good that guys like Matt Lauer are getting their comeuppance, but what about Kenny, the predatory manager of the Red Roof Inn just outside Denver?

metirish Nov 30 2017 02:50 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

MFS62 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: So what do you suppose Lauer was thinking when, over the past few weeks, his job was to read stories about O'Reilly going down, and then Weinstein, and Franken, and etc. ... that HE would be the one to get away with all this crap? Somewhere, Ann Curry must be smiling. There were many stories when she left the Today Show that were surprised she never told why she left. Many thought that lack of chemistry, the reason the network gave, didn't tell the whole story. Later Yes, I wonder if we will hear from her.....

Ceetar Nov 30 2017 02:54 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I hope that this movement extends beyond celebrities. I can only imagine how many hotel maids, waitresses, teachers, nurses, etc. have to deal with stuff like this. It's good that guys like Matt Lauer are getting their comeuppance, but what about Kenny, the predatory manager of the Red Roof Inn just outside Denver? No so much Kenny, but how about all the workers when a team of players comes in? And why aren't these people coming forward? well, because we even deport immigrants for showing up for cancer treatment, they can't risk it.

metsmarathon Nov 30 2017 04:52 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

let's not forget that male athletes have an opportunity to perform male-on-male sexual assault, only they call it hazing, and it usually gets laughed off. that shoe will drop, too, and it will drop hard.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2017 07:32 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

This might fan the flames around here, but this ad is solid gold. [tweet:1rgn0h8b]https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/936080955185487880[/tweet:1rgn0h8b]

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 07:35 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

I hope she wins!

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 07:42 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Which pundits have asked whether the state can "afford" to have a female governor, a female attorney general, and female secretary of state?

41Forever Nov 30 2017 08:18 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

She has a Dem primary challenger who is a male, but on the other side of the aisle the leading candidate also is a female. But this will get her some attention.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 08:31 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Is her opponent accused of anything? If not, the ad seems pretty pointless

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2017 08:32 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

The point is to get attention, and apparently it's working.

Edgy MD Nov 30 2017 08:57 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Well, if that's the point, then the president is right, and kill me now.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2017 09:11 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

This would have made an awesome comedy sketch from someone not running for office, like if Sarah Silverman did this and made it even more over the top or something

41Forever Nov 30 2017 09:12 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Nymr83 wrote: Is her opponent accused of anything? If not, the ad seems pretty pointless Grimmy's right, its to get attention. And working. She's an underdog working to build name recognition. The Dem presumed to be leading is a well known former state's attorney. The GOP side has the House speaker going against a popular and respected state senator. What's interesting is that in this state, there is a primary for governor, but the attorney general and secretary of state candidates are selected by delegates at a nominating convention. (My one election was for precinct delegate for the convention. Had a yard sign and everything. One yard sign.) So my guess is that an ad like this is geared at fundraising.

cooby Dec 01 2017 12:11 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Btw I still feel as I did at the beginning of this thread. Women are not all little saints and batmags (and others)?don't you dare insinuate by that that I think they should be raped. You wear loose clothing, expect a reaction. Rape no but walking down the street dressed like a tart and no reaction.? I beg to differ. I think my days here are numbered now.

cooby Dec 01 2017 12:20 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Calling a ton of BS here

Edgy MD Dec 01 2017 12:37 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: Btw I still feel as I did at the beginning of this thread. Women are not all little saints and batmags (and others)?don't you dare insinuate by that that I think they should be raped. You wear loose clothing, expect a reaction. Rape no but walking down the street dressed like a tart and no reaction.? I beg to differ. I think my days here are numbered now. Well, gosh, no.

cooby Dec 01 2017 01:50 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: Calling a ton of BS here Sorry. a SHITLOAD of BS here. read it and weep. At least Fman is honest

cooby Dec 01 2017 02:06 AM Re: Sick of this shit

A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's a lot of noise in this thread, I think. Nudity for the sake of art or even for self-expression, is not an invitation to sex or anything related to sex. I've been to nude beaches before in my travels, but a naked woman sunning herself is not an invitation to me to come be a dude just because she's naked. . Not picking on this quote in particular. Do you guys know how lame you sound?? It doesn't matter what you say. You're men and the naked breast is your god. Thank god for guys like my pal Fman. I don't like it but he's honest Do you know Vivian Vance slept for the role of Ethel? Do you think this is recent? Grow up . I will see how the very wonderful CHRISTMAS gift exchange thread goes but as the only woman left here (and believe me I have a very tough skin and batmags, who is at least honest is the least of my worries)

Nymr83 Dec 01 2017 02:26 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Do you know Vivian Vance slept for the role of Ethel? Do you think this is recent? Grow up . No, I do not think sexual exploitation of employees is recent. perhaps we as a society are "growing up" by no longer permitting it to go unpunished!

Edgy MD Dec 01 2017 03:01 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: I have a feeling the sports world is next. ESPN, pro players, college coaches, etc Boom. Greg Zaun. Former MLB catcher and Blue Jays broadcaster, now out of work.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 01 2017 11:49 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Gregg Zaun! He's ready to go! He got whacked From Blue Jays sports radio! Gregg Zaun! Gregg Zaun! He harrassed female colleagues any way that he can So Gregg Zaun's contract has been canned!

metsmarathon Dec 01 2017 01:59 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby, i should be able to park my car on a busy city street overnight with the doors unlocked without fear of it not being there in the morning. women should be free to wear whatever they want, or nothing at all, without fear of being raped or assaulted. if i do park my unlocked car on a busy street, and it gets stolen, we do not seek to excuse the criminal. if i see a lovely naked woman walking down the street, i freely admit that my eyes will be turned her way. it might just spur some other noticeable physical reaction. she could walk right up next to me, for all i care. maybe even start a conversation with me. she would leave that conversation unraped and unmolested. as it should be for any interaction with another human - male or female. nobody should have to think, "do i want to wear this skirt today, or do i want to get raped?" or "should i wear this sweater to work, or do i want to get groped?" if you see a girl dressed like a hooker, and you want to think that she's just out there looking for sex, that's fine. hell, maybe she is. but she probably wants consensual sex, on her terms, and not rape. and if she gets consensual sex, then good on her. and if she gets raped, it is through no fault of her pants. if a black man drives a nice car through alabama and gets pulled over by a white cop for no reason, do we think that's the problem of the black man or the white cop? who should be considered at fault? whose actions should be changed? whose actions should be no longer tolerated, or excused away as just the way things are? sorry for being lame, i guess. and if that all sounds disingenuous, then i don't know what to tell you to change your mind. but i am not just a potential rapist, whiling away my time waiting for just the right opportunity to strike. men are pigs. many, many men. i'll not deny that. and many men, when faced with a power dynamic that affords them an opportunity to coerce sex and sexual contact, will avail themselves of it. and sometimes, too, women will be willing participants in the power play. is a woman who sleeps her way to the top a victim or a beneficiary of the power dynamic? i would argue that it is possible to be both. if the only reason nyou sleep with a guy is to get a job or a promotion, then yes, you are a victim of the power dynamic. i would also argue that the vast overwhelming majority of women who are coerced into sexual relationships or contact for the advancement or preservation of their careers do so unwillingly - or there would be no need for coercion. just because a certain way has prevailed for ages does not mean that a different way is better and more right. for millenia, we thought the earth to be the center of the universe. we now know that we're but a mere random speck twirling about in an infinite maelstrom, no closer to the middle than the edge, wholly unremarkable among the countless stars. we can and should and will change the relationship between men and women in this country, and in the world. demand better. at all levels and at every opportunity. if we men can't handle it, then we're no men at all.

Fman99 Dec 01 2017 02:16 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

I hope people know that I make jokes on a baseball message board about butts and boobs because it's funny, but that I am respectful towards women out here in the real world, where I live. As someone who loves their mother, and their wife, and their daughter.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 01 2017 02:28 PM Re: Sick of this shit

cooby wrote: A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's a lot of noise in this thread, I think. Nudity for the sake of art or even for self-expression, is not an invitation to sex or anything related to sex. I've been to nude beaches before in my travels, but a naked woman sunning herself is not an invitation to me to come be a dude just because she's naked. . Not picking on this quote in particular. Do you guys know how lame you sound?? It doesn't matter what you say. You're men and the naked breast is your god. Thank god for guys like my pal Fman. I don't like it but he's honest Do you know Vivian Vance slept for the role of Ethel? Do you think this is recent? Grow up . I will see how the very wonderful CHRISTMAS gift exchange thread goes but as the only woman left here (and believe me I have a very tough skin and batmags, who is at least honest is the least of my worries) Well, Coobs, I'm no angel. But if you think this kind of stuff sounds lame, well, you wouldn't like me very much IRL. What exactly is bugging you about the last few weeks? That so many women are finally coming forward? That you doubt their veracity? That so many poor guys who conducted themselves in this way for so many years are reaping the whirlwind? That some of the guys are people you respected, or whose work you've enjoyed? Or that the women (and men) are speaking up, rather than "growing up" and staying silent? Some of the opinions you've expressed are especially puzzling coming from an adult woman. I mean, you've never experienced any of this sort of stuff?

Ceetar Dec 01 2017 02:38 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

This is an interesting thread worth a read I think, to Cooby's points. Well, to a similar point Angela Lansbury recently made. Women MY age and younger are struggling with re-conceptualizing experiences they negotiated that were not recognized as abuse by themselves or others. Are triggered and floored by redefining these transactions. [url]https://twitter.com/shrinkthinks/status/935513187050541057 The sleeping to the top thing will never stop because the workplace is never going to be fair and promotion is often/sometimes not based on skill. The people that make these decisions are always going to be biased towards friends and people they like. And a woman might feel her body is something that she use to make that decision biased in her favor. Just like a provocatively dressed bartender is always going to get better tips. Or a guy's willingness to play golf with the boss on Saturday, or liking the same sports team, or going to the same college/frat. What we need to fix, avoid, correct is some of the glass ceiling/pay inequality stuff where a woman feels like using her body is the ONLY way she's going to get recognized and promoted. Those women are making conscious choices, but we're trapping them into it. They might rationalize it to themselves, even be okay with it, but as Martha explains in that Twitter thread, that doesn't make it okay.

cooby Dec 01 2017 02:47 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

he sleeping to the top thing will never stop because the workplace is never going to be fair and promotion is often/sometimes not based on skill. The people that make these decisions are always going to be biased towards friends and people they like. And a woman might feel her body is something that she use to make that decision biased in her favor. Just like a provocatively dressed bartender is always going to get better tips. Thank you! That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about! I am not so good with words I guess. Apologies all around. But please try to understand my point of view. And yes of course I've had it happen to me. Not the groping. THAT guy would get an elbow to the teeth. Especially an ugly guy like Trump, hehe. I don't want to leave here. I like all of you guys, even the ones that are sometimes pills. Cos so am I.

Ceetar Dec 01 2017 02:58 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

What it really boils down to is the need to hire and promote more women into congress, management, leadership positions. That should open up more 'fair' avenues for promotion that aren't walking that line between trying to appear sexy and appealing in order to get ahead and resigning yourself to being treated like a toy as a result.

metsmarathon Dec 01 2017 04:37 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

cooby wrote: I like all of you guys, even the ones that are sometimes pills. i'm just tryin' to get by as a gummy flintstone vitamin of soothing middle ground.

cooby Dec 01 2017 04:53 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

:D

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2017 07:51 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

btw, the latest celebrity to be called out for sexual harassment: Pepe Le Pew Man, that guy just never took no for an answer!

cooby Dec 01 2017 07:54 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

But he's so cute!

Ashie62 Dec 01 2017 10:40 PM Re: Sleazeball thread Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 02 2017 03:04 AM

Garrison Keillor of NPR fired, really??

Lefty Specialist Dec 02 2017 01:40 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Still wrapping my head around Vivian Vance sleeping her way to the role of Ethel. No wonder Fred wore his pants so high.

cooby Dec 02 2017 02:27 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Creepy isn't it? :(

Ashie62 Dec 03 2017 11:02 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Not as creepy as William Frawley sleeping his way to the top.

Lefty Specialist Dec 04 2017 01:15 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

I'm going to have trouble erasing that image from my mind. James Levine, chief conductor at the Metropolitan Opera, next up in the Sleazeball-of-the-Day competition. The good news is he wasn't abusing women. The bad news is he was abusing teenage boys.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2017 03:34 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

And as the RNC joins the majority leader with a "Never mind, we support Judge Moore!" Congressman Conyers announces his retirement.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 05 2017 07:02 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

did you'se guys see this exhange between John Oliver and Dustin Hoffman? https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... llegation/

Ceetar Dec 05 2017 07:27 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

A Boy Named Seo wrote: did you'se guys see this exhange between John Oliver and Dustin Hoffman? https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... llegation/ Kudos to John.

G-Fafif Dec 06 2017 07:54 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Public radio emerging as quite the hotbed of alleged inappropriate behavior. Jonathan Schwartz and Leonard Lopate placed on leave. Schwartz is a weekend institution, offering the Great American Songbook over WNYC-FM, not to mention the Salute to Baseball every Super Bowl Sunday.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2017 08:02 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

G-Fafif Dec 06 2017 08:04 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Al Franken will be making an announcement tomorrow. In light of his colleagues' calls for his resignation, it's not difficult to figure out what it will be.

Fman99 Dec 07 2017 10:47 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Reading all kinds of nasty stuff about Warren Moon, former NFL QB and current broadcaster. Taken a leave of absence and facing charges as per the Seattle Times. Yuck.

Edgy MD Dec 07 2017 01:21 PM Re: Sleazeball thread

Amazing how Al Franken predicted his own downfall 38 years earlier in "Tagliani vs. Adcock."

Lefty Specialist Dec 08 2017 02:12 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Hm. Trent Franks (R-AZ), staunch conservative and battler against abortion rights, resigning over 'discussions of surrogacy with female staffers'. Something tells me the full details of this one are going to be a mite unsavory.

Nymr83 Dec 08 2017 02:42 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

Lefty Specialist wrote: Hm. Trent Franks (R-AZ), staunch conservative and battler against abortion rights, resigning over 'discussions of surrogacy with female staffers'. Something tells me the full details of this one are going to be a mite unsavory. reading his statements i can't decide, but if he is resigning when there hasn't even bee a story yet, its pretty likely he did something that sucks

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2017 02:21 AM Re: Sleazeball thread

PBS host Tavis Smiley suspended amidst "troubling" sexual conduct allegations. And some state Rep in Kentucky kills himself following molestation accusations from a teenage girl.