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SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2017 11:24 AM

THE SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR, 2017 PLAYER OF THE YEAR The Schaefer Mets Player of the Year for 2017 is JACOB deGROM, with 92.11 points. With his second win (he previously was Player of the Year in 2015) Jacob becomes the first Met other than David Wright to win the award multiple times. (Wright has been Player of the Year six times... so far!) What had been a tight race for the title between deGrom, Michael Conforto, and Jay Bruce became an easy win for deGrom when Bruce was traded away and Conforto's season ended early due to his shoulder injury. PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2005 - David Wright, 140.17 points*; 2006 - David Wright, 121.16; 2007 - David Wright, 124.77; 2008 - Johan Santana, 121.37; 2009 - David Wright, 91.72; 2010 - David Wright, 117.56; 2011 - José Reyes, 104.96; 2012 - David Wright, 113.06; 2013 - Daniel Murphy, 107.30; 2014 - Lucas Duda, 95.62; 2015 - Jacob deGrom, 97.08; 2016 - Yoenis Cespedes, 90.62. * Totals were higher in 2005 because of a rule specifying that ten points were to be awarded for each game. PITCHER OF THE YEAR The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Year is, also for the second time, JACOB deGROM. And it wasn't at all close. DeGrom's 92.11 points left him way ahead of runner-up Robert Gsellman, who had 37.38 points, and Rafael Montero, who had 35.21. PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2005 - Pedro Martinez, 120.68 points*; 2006 - Tom Glavine, 80.26; 2007 - Tom Glavine, 75.97; 2008 - Johan Santana, 121.37; 2009 - Johan Santana, 84.61; 2010 - Johan Santana, 90.42; 2011 - R.A. Dickey, 69.40; 2012 - R.A. Dickey, 110.12; 2013 - Matt Harvey, 86.68; 2014 - Bartolo Colon, 74.77; 2015 - Jacob deGrom, 97.08; 2016 - Noah Syndergaard, 89.81. * Totals were higher in 2005 because of a rule specifying that ten points were to be awarded for each game. RELIEF PITCHER OF THE YEAR Addison Reed led the race for the Mets Relief Pitcher of the Year Award until the game of September 15, long after he was traded. Ultimately, the race for the prize came down to a closely fought battle between Jerry Blevins and our winner, PAUL SEWALD. Paul ended up with 22.41 points to Jerry's 22.35. Reed ended up in third place, with 20.70 points, followed by Hansel Robles with 19.66. Raise your hand if, back in April, you had Paul Sewald pegged as the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Year. PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2006 - Billy Wagner, 40.39 points; 2007 - Aaron Heilman, 34.86; 2008 - Aaron Heilman, 34.50; 2009 - Francisco Rodriguez, 38.58; 2010 - Hisanori Takahashi 28.69; 2011 - Pedro Beato, 25.93; 2012 - Bobby Parnell, 29.01; 2013 - LaTroy Hawkins, 32.30; 2014 - Carlos Torres, 35.75; 2015 - Jeurys Familia, 35.85; 2016 - Jeurys Familia, 36.70. BENCH PLAYER OF THE YEAR The Bench Player of the Year is WILMER FLORES, who earned 4.89 points in games in which he did not start, ahead of Dominic Smith (4.78 points), Asdrubal Cabrera (4.43), and Curtis Granderson (3.25). PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2006 - Julio Franco, 7.16 points; 2007 - Marlon Anderson, 10.39; 2008 - Damion Easley, 5.06; 2009 - Fernando Tatis, 8.37; 2010 - Chris Carter, 9.28; 2011 - Scott Hairston, 8.77; 2012 - Jordany Valdespin, 13.84; 2013 - Jordany Valdespin, 8.70; 2014 - Eric Campbell, 5.89; 2015 - Michael Cuddyer, 3.49; 2016 - Kelly Johnson, 8.29. SCHAEFER METS PLAYER OF THE WEEK, 2017 Week ending April 8, 2017: Jacob deGrom, 3.89 points. Week ending April 15, 2017: Noah Syndergaard, 7.47 points. Week ending April 22, 2017: Matt Harvey, 6.30 points. Week ending April 29, 2017: Michael Conforto, 6.47 points. Week ending May 6, 2017: Jay Bruce, 8.94 points. Week ending May 13, 2017: Neil Walker, 7.55 points. Week ending May 20, 2017: Michael Conforto, 8.84 points. Week ending May 27, 2017: Lucas Duda, 7.63 points. Week ending June 3, 2017: Robert Gsellman, 6.87 points. Week ending June 10, 2017: Jay Bruce, 7.11 points. Week ending June 17, 2017: Seth Lugo, 6.59 points. Week ending June 24, 2017: Jacob deGrom, 10.50 points. Week ending July 1, 2017: Curtis Granderson, 5.45 points. Week ending July 8, 2017: Steven Matz, 4.79 points. Week ending July 15, 2017: Seth Lugo, 4.05 points. Week ending July 22, 2017: Michael Conforto, 7.24 points. Week ending July 29, 2017: Jacob deGrom, 7.42 points. Week ending August 5, 2017: Curtis Granderson, 4.41 points. Week ending August 12, 2017: Yoenis Cespedes, 5.64 points. Week ending August 19, 2017: Curtis Granderson, 7.27 points. Week ending August 26, 2017: Yoenis Cespedes, 6.75 points. Week ending September 2, 2017: Asdrubal Cabrera, 6.37 points. Week ending September 9, 2017: Brandon Nimmo, 8.22 points. Week ending September 16, 2017: Jacob deGrom, 6.97 points. Week ending September 23, 2017: Travis d'Arnaud, 5.55 points. Week ending September 30, 2017: Asdrubal Cabrera, 4.90 points. Thanks to those who participated! This year's Perfect Participation prize is a lovely, albeit imaginary, tote bag! Forum members who voted in every game were G-Fafif, TMF, Benjamin Grimm, and OhSheaCanKC. Ashie62 voted in each of the first 161 games, and in the 162nd game somebody, perhaps Ashie himself, or perhaps a Russian imposter, voted under the name "ash". This anomaly, needless to say, caused quite a bit of consternation back in Stockholm. Should Ashie62 get the imaginary tote bag? Numerous meetings were held, and it came down to a heated argument between Germund in the Promotions Department and Börje in Finance, but eventually Germund prevailed and Ashie62 will be getting the imaginary tote bag. OhSheaCanKC 162 Benjamin Grimm 162 TMF 162 G-Fafif 162 Ashie62 161 FK 147 Lunch 94 LWFS 40 TransMonk 35 Vic Sage 26 Zvon 13 Centerfield 3 ash 1 Don Johnson 1 GetYourBrooms 1 seawolf17 1 Duan 1 WeSuck 1 sharpie 1 Farmer Ted 1 Mets-Willets Point 1 ConfortoTime! 1

Ashie62 Oct 15 2017 11:50 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

I was fun. 10/1 i just typed ash and the page came up. it was fun.

d'Kong76 Oct 15 2017 12:16 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Congratulations to Jacob and much thanks to Ben G for continuing the tradition of Schaefer voting. Love the imaginary tote, I needed one to replace my imaginary PBS tote bag that was starting to wear.

Frayed Knot Oct 15 2017 01:25 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

So we have a player of the year: deGrom, and, in case that player isn't a pitcher, there's a pitcher of the year: in this case also deGrom. But in those years where the player & pitcher are the same there isn't a non-pitcher player of the year. That (position) Player of the Year this year, if there were such a person, would be Conforto. Wait, that tote is imaginary?!? Not sure why I had so much trouble keeping up with the voting this year. Even the total I did manage required a lot of going back and filling in as deadlines approached which is hardly the best way to handle things. I think the 2016 season when I voted as a different person each game gave me something extra to look forward to each game (Ooh, who am I going to be today?) Maybe I need to come up with a new gimmick for next year in order to keep myself disciplined.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 15 2017 01:46 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

I lost the Schaefer track during my vacation and subsequent work punishment for having taken it. Plus, the voting reminded me of how little fun it was to watch the Mets this year. I wanna thank the folks in Sweden for all their hard work.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2017 02:10 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Frayed Knot wrote: So we have a player of the year: deGrom, and, in case that player isn't a pitcher, there's a pitcher of the year: in this case also deGrom. But in those years where the player & pitcher are the same there isn't a non-pitcher player of the year. That (position) Player of the Year this year, if there were such a person, would be Conforto. This is the third time that a pitcher has been Player of the Year. In 2008, the leading position player, finishing second to Johan Santana, was David Wright. In 2015, the first time that Jacob deGrom won, Matt Harvey finished in second place, and Curtis Granderson, in third, was the leading position player. Frayed Knot wrote: Wait, that tote is imaginary?!? Yes, but somehow, you can use it to carry actual stuff.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 15 2017 02:13 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I lost the Schaefer track during my vacation and subsequent work punishment for having taken it. Plus, the voting reminded me of how little fun it was to watch the Mets this year. I wanna thank the folks in Sweden for all their hard work. Hopefully next year will be a lot less sucky and more people will participate. I've been thinking of opening the voting to the masses, via the UMDB Facebook page, but I figure it would go one of two ways: Nobody will take the bait, which is fine, or too many people will and I'll have a headache to deal with. I think the current voting form makes it hard to screw up, but you can never underestimate the nutty things people might do.

G-Fafif Oct 15 2017 02:54 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Congratulations Jake on a well-deserved Schaefer and thank you Ben for giving us more than one. Still fun to vote in game after game despite this having been one of the lamest Met years of the current century. I definitely did not have Paul Sewald winning the reliever award back in April. I'm a little surprised in that every time I paid attention to Sewald, he imploded like he was a latter-day Dale Murray, but he compiled just enough yeoman work and Terry Collins gave just enough days of rest to Blevins, apparently. Only four of the overall Top 10 were still playing in Mets games as the season wound down. Maybe attrition should have been the Player of the Year.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 15 2017 07:08 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017 Edited 4 time(s), most recently on Oct 15 2017 08:38 PM

G-Fafif wrote: I definitely did not have Paul Sewald winning the reliever award back in April. I'm a little surprised in that every time I paid attention to Sewald, he imploded like he was a latter-day Dale Murray .... Sewald was able to exploit Schaefer's biggest flaw to an undeserved Reliever of the Year Award. Sewald's season was marked by several very good and very bad stretches that, when averaged out, exposed an overall mediocre to average reliever, barely better than replacement value, if even that. Sewald's 2017 season Strat-O-Matic card will be very unimpressive. Schaefer doesn't allow for negative numbers and so treats a horrible game performance just the same as if that player sat on the bench all game long. In both cases, the player will receive zero points. It's theoretically possible for the worst reliever to come away with Schaefer's Reliever of the Year Award. So Schaefer didn't penalize Sewald for giving up five runs in a third of an inning to the Pirates on June 2, or giving up two runs in a third of an inning against the Marlins on April 8, just to pick out a few of Sewald's horrible outings. Sewald's season illustrates the ideal way for an average or even mediocre reliever to beat the system -- by having many extreme outings -- either very good or very bad. This Schaefer flaw is most likely to occur with relievers and bench players, who appear sporadically instead of regularly. The everyday awards for everyday players shouldn't be affected nearly as much by this flaw because everyday players, by definition, play every day and so the Schaefer advantage in avoiding negative numbers for a bad game are minimized. There, it's enough of a penalty for season long awards not get any points at all in a given game.

MFS62 Oct 15 2017 07:17 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Thanks, Ben. I don't participate because my work schedule doesn't me allow to see many games, and if I voted sporadically I feel it would skew your numbers. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort you put into this. Later

d'Kong76 Oct 15 2017 07:35 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Batmag: Must you raise your leg and pee on everything when you get the urge?

batmagadanleadoff Oct 15 2017 07:56 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Batmag: Must you raise your leg and pee on everything when you get the urge? I'm sorry. I take it back. What was I thinking? Sewald was the best Mets reliever this season. Probably the best Mets reliever the Mets ever had. And if Sewald sang lead for Rush, Moving Pictures would've been even perfecter. This is the response you come up with to my post? Is this how you would've responded if Edgy wrote that post? What a circle jerk you want this to be.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 15 2017 08:07 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Batmag: Must you raise your leg and pee on everything when you get the urge? I'm sorry. I take it back. What was I thinking? Sewald was the best Mets reliever this season. Probably the best Mets reliever the Mets ever had. And if Sewald sang lead for Rush, Moving Pictures would've been even perfecter. This is the response you come up with to my post? Is this how you would've responded if Edgy wrote that post? What a circle jerk you want this to be. Not even tongue in cheek there. Has anyone ever heard Geddy Lee? I'd prefer my cat sharpening his claws on a blackboard to that.

d'Kong76 Oct 15 2017 08:22 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

The point is, and I think it's pretty good point, you had 162 games and a whole season to pee on Schaefer voting. But no, you pee'd on it's most glorious day of the season. -2 suds to you and -3 to your bladder.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 15 2017 08:33 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: The point is, and I think it's pretty good point, you had 162 games and a whole season to pee on Schaefer voting. But no, you pee'd on it's most glorious day of the season. -2 suds to you and -3 to your bladder. I don't get your point. Actually I do, and it's ridiculous. You're just making it up as you go along now and you would've never written your post had almost anyone else here wrote it. So wait, there's a properly designated date to note that Sewald was undeserving and that Schaefer has a flaw? When is that date and who gets to designate it? And is everybody else here bound by that date? Or just me? I don't follow the day to day vote and even if I did, I'm not sure I would have had any way of knowing that Sewald, who wasn't even the Mets second best reliever in 2016 was primed to win Schaefer's reliever award. And this isn't the first time I raised this specific criticism of Schaefer. We had an entire thread on this a few years ago, where I explained the flaw in Schaefer voting. In fact, I was asked to specifically explain this flaw by some other poster (I think it was Grimm, if I remember).

Frayed Knot Oct 15 2017 08:44 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 15 2017 09:03 PM

Considering that Sewald wins this "award" by being compared only to other NYM relievers, it's tough to see how the 'flaw' in Schaefer rewards him more than any other. He led NYM relievers in innings pitched this season and looks like he was behind only Addison Reed in allowing baserunners (WHIP). Meanwhile, the so called #1 reliever on the team missed most of the year, the #2 guy (Reed) was dealt away in mid-season, the #3 (Robles) was worse than awful for stretches, etc. Given the chance to study the whole group and come up subjectively who I think the NYM 'Reliever of the Year' was (and we will before the winter is out) I'm not sure I wouldn't come up with Sewald. He also edged out Blevins in the 'Schaefer vote by all of 0.06 and Reed by 1.65, so it's not like the results of this process resembled that of FDR over Hoover.

41Forever Oct 15 2017 08:59 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

I like the Schaefer points and Sewald had some nice stretches. Hopefully something for him to build on in 2018. The cards continue to be simply amazing. Those classic designs are things of beauty. And I notice that you try to match the photos with the style of that particular issue. And the 1972 design, like bacon, makes everything better. Geddy Lee is incredible, and Moving Pictures marked the period where his became slightly less shrill.

d'Kong76 Oct 15 2017 09:02 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I don't get your point. Actually I do, and it's ridiculous. Thanks. batmagadanleadoff wrote: You're just making it up as you go along now and you would've never written your post had almost anyone else here wrote it. Uh, no. batmagadanleadoff wrote: So wait, there's a properly designated date to note that Sewald was undeserving and that Schaefer has a flaw? When is that date and who gets to designate it? And is everybody else here bound by that date? Or just me? No, there was no date, yes it was just you. You caught us. Brilliant!!!

batmagadanleadoff Oct 15 2017 10:55 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Frayed Knot wrote: Considering that Sewald wins this "award" by being compared only to other NYM relievers, it's tough to see how the 'flaw' in Schaefer rewards him more than any other.... He also edged out Blevins in the 'Schaefer vote by all of 0.06 and Reed by 1.65, so it's not like the results of this process resembled that of FDR over Hoover. "How the flaw ... rewards him...."? Don't tell me that you're suggesting that the goal of a Met reliever, in the real-life real-live world, is to tailor his outings to win the CPF Schaefer award? Sewald benefited from Schaefer, not purposely or by design to get an edge over his relieving Met teammates, but because he had more extreme outings -- very bad and very good outings. Those outings smooth each other out and cumulatively, result in a middling to average season at the end of the day. But Schaefer doesn't score Sewald as a mediocre to average reliever because Schaefer only recognizes his good outings. This results in Sewald receiving an inflated score relative to his actual performance. This is how a mediocre to average reliever can outscore his more deserving teammates: the extremely good outings are credited while the bad ones that hurt his team are ignored. A pitcher who, by comparision, ends up with cumulative stats identical to Sewald, but with significantly less individual game extremes will not score as high in Schaefer. The typical intermittent use of relievers will yield a sample size not large enough to smooth out extreme outings. It's true that Sewald outpitched Blevins innings-wise - 65.1 to 49. But what were those extra 16.1 innings pitched by Sewald worth? Here's what Blevins did in 49 innings, followed by, in parentheses, Sewald's total for 65.1 innings: Hits - 43 (58) Runs - 16 (36) ERuns - 16 (33) HR - 4 (8) BB - 24 (21) K - 69 (69) If we pretend, for the sake of this post, that Blevins and Sewald performed exactly the same statistically over their first 49 innings pitched, then we can see what the Mets received from Sewald's extra or marginal 16.1 innings he pitched over Blevins: IP - 16.1 Hits - 15 Runs - 20 Eruns - 17 HR - 4 BB (-3) K - 0 Those 16.1 marginal innings were disastrous. Sewald gave up more than a run an inning for 16.1 innings, about a third of Blevins' entire season IP output, striking out nobody and allowing a HR every four innings. The Mets would have been better off had Sewald never pitched those marginal innings. And statistically, he's nowhere close to Blevins' performance, no matter what Schaefer says, or no matter that Sewald beat Blevins in the Schaefer vote by only a little bit. The idea that Sewald was more valuable or better than Blevins because he pitched more innings is just wrong. This isn't even a close call and even less so when you're trying to use Schaefer votes to bolster Sewald's 2017 season.

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 05:06 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2017 07:40 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Don't tell me that you're suggesting that the goal of a Met reliever, in the real-life real-live world, is to tailor his outings to win the CPF Schaefer award? Sure, that was exactly what I was suggesting; that the Schaefer points are more important than the real season. Not sure why I didn't put that more plainly the first time around. This is beginning to seem a bit like your draft/tanking argument. That one you based entirely on the "fact" that next year's draft is not just uniquely strong at the top but also one where there's a large and known gap between the first few and and next few picks so that a small difference in standings this year will result in either hitting or missing on a franchise changing player even as MLB drafts have rarely if ever shown that to be the case. Here your starting point is that Sewald's season was one of extreme highs and lows even when compared to other NYM relievers. Not quite sure how you even measure all that. He had three outings where he gave up at least 3 runs, more than Blevins and Reed but not more than the likes of Smoker, Salas, Robles, Bradford etc. and of course he had more outings, more innings, and a longer season than just about everyone else so had more chances for bad days. Blevins was the only one with more appearances but his outings were mostly confined to 0.1 and 0.2 inning stints against favorable matchups for him (L vs L) so, again, fewer chances at blow-ups. You then went through a whole lot of math to essentially tell me that Blevins had the better ERA which I was quite aware of. I'm also aware, as are you, that reliever ERA is only marginally interesting. The other thing you seem to be missing here is that IT'S THE FUCKING SCHAEFER VOTING!!!, a mild daily diversion to keep ourselves connected and occupied while honoring a throw-back tradition to old Ralph/Bob/Lindsey broadcasts. I'm pretty sure none of these guys are putting this on their post-career resumes. I'd say that at worst Sewald was the Mets 3rd best reliever this year, marginally behind the two guys he finished marginally ahead of in the Schaefer voting. Man, what a gaping flaw!

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 07:58 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

I'm not at all surprised that batmagadanleadoff is piddling on the Schaefer results. He's done it before and I'm sure he'll do it again. It's like how I fully expect Ceetar to turn his nose up at the Tabloid Cover Derby, flaunting how it's beneath his superior intellect. As the Geico commercials say, "It's what they do." And I agree with Frayed Knot. It's a point I've made several times in the past. Schaefer isn't scientific. It's not meant to be scientific. So there's little point in berating it for not being scientific. MFS62 wrote: Thanks, Ben. I don't participate because my work schedule doesn't me allow to see many games, and if I voted sporadically I feel it would skew your numbers. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort you put into this. Thank you! But please, feel free to vote sporadically. It wouldn't skew the results at all, because all awarded points are averaged on a per game basis. So even if one game has five voters and another game has twenty, there still won't be more than ten points awarded for that game. The more input the better! And you don't have to have watched all nine innings to vote on a game. I've voted on many a game that I didn't see at all. If you can read a game account and interpret a box score, you have enough information to cast a Schaefer vote. It's a little discouraging that so few people participate, but I don't really let it bother me anymore because the whole thing is so automated that it takes very little effort, other than creating the baseball cards each month, and that's more of a fun thing than a chore. 41Forever wrote: The cards continue to be simply amazing. Those classic designs are things of beauty. And I notice that you try to match the photos with the style of that particular issue. And the 1972 design, like bacon, makes everything better. Thanks for noticing! I definitely do make a point to match the photo with the year of the cards. It's largely an instinctual thing, but there are a few hard-and-fast rules, such as no action shots on 1970 or 1972 cards (except for the 1972 IN ACTION cards) and any action shots on 1971 cards have to be from a distance and show the player's full body. I also try each year to have a fairly even distribution of the different years from the 1970s among the cards that end up on the season-ending display. I make sure that each year gets represented at least twice. I too have a fondness for the 1972 cards; they're just so wonderfully weird.

Vic Sage Oct 16 2017 08:29 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

i think Mags is right, mathematically, that a system that awards (+) for good performances, but no (-) for bad perfs is likely to favor players with larger swings in their perfs. That's just math, right? But i don't know that it necessarily effected the Sewald vote, and i don't know that it matters a bit either way. The Schaeffer is not an attempt to create an unassailable new sabrmetric statistic, but is merely a way to keep everybody together and interactive over the course of a long season. And the "player of the year" is a way to keep a diary of our thoughts over the year, and from year to year. We've built a history together and the Schaefer is one of the ways we've recorded that history. I don't think it's a breach of conduct to offer critique of the system, perhaps toward evolving it as we move forward, and the day the results are announced are exactly the time to have that conversation. But as i said, i don't care to improve it; it's "accuracy" is only important in that it accurately reflect what the board is feeling at any given moment, and cumulatively, and creates a record of those judgments. Perhaps the creation of a negative score option would allow for that, but I leave that to Ben to decide. Mr. Grimm does a great job of keeping it all going despite widespread lack of involvement. I participate sporadically each season (even some games that i just evaluate by the box score and news reports) but i tend to lose my will over the course of a bad year. I'll try to do better next season, and hopefully the Mets will too.

Ashie62 Oct 16 2017 08:49 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 16 2017 08:53 AM

Just vote, its' not rocket science. Just for fun. Great job Grimm.

MFS62 Oct 16 2017 08:53 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Ben. I have now been fully reassured that my few votes DO count and will do my best in the future. Later

Ashie62 Oct 16 2017 08:54 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

d'Kong76 wrote: Batmag: Must you raise your leg and pee on everything when you get the urge? Thats Odell Beckham's turf.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 16 2017 09:30 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 16 2017 09:42 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: This is beginning to seem a bit like your draft/tanking argument.... Here your starting point is that Sewald's season was one of extreme highs and lows even when compared to other NYM relievers.... You then went through a whole lot of math to essentially tell me that Blevins had the better ERA which I was quite aware of. I'm also aware, as are you, that reliever ERA is only marginally interesting. So now you wanna undercut my point that Sewald was significantly worse than Blevins by noting how meaningless reliever ERA is? Let's go to WAR to show you how bad Sewald was compared to Blevins. Blevins --- 1.5 WAR/49 IP Sewald --- 0.2 WAR/65.1 IP. At the qualitative rate of performance that Sewald pitched in 2017, he would have had to pitch precisely 490 innings to accumulate the 1.5 WAR that Blevins amassed in just 65.1 innings. Sewald won't get to pitch 490 major league inning in his entire life. How much more straining are you gonna engage in to counter my posts here mainly because it's me and because you've committed yourself to the wrong idea that Sewald and Blevins were somehow close to each other performance-wise?

batmagadanleadoff Oct 16 2017 09:39 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Vic Sage wrote: i think Mags is right, mathematically, that a system that awards (+) for good performances, but no (-) for bad perfs is likely to favor players with larger swings in their perfs. That's just math, right? But i don't know that it necessarily effected the Sewald vote, and i don't know that it matters a bit either way. The Schaeffer is not an attempt to create an unassailable new sabrmetric statistic, but is merely a way to keep everybody together and interactive over the course of a long season. And the "player of the year" is a way to keep a diary of our thoughts over the year, and from year to year. We've built a history together and the Schaefer is one of the ways we've recorded that history. I don't think it's a breach of conduct to offer critique of the system, perhaps toward evolving it as we move forward, and the day the results are announced are exactly the time to have that conversation. But as i said, i don't care to improve it; it's "accuracy" is only important in that it accurately reflect what the board is feeling at any given moment, and cumulatively, and creates a record of those judgments. Perhaps the creation of a negative score option would allow for that, but I leave that to Ben to decide. Mr. Grimm does a great job of keeping it all going despite widespread lack of involvement. I participate sporadically each season (even some games that i just evaluate by the box score and news reports) but i tend to lose my will over the course of a bad year. I'll try to do better next season, and hopefully the Mets will too. I agree with your post and I've said so before when I first raised this flaw -- that Schaefer is fun and that it mainly exists to have that fun and as a social function to drive the forum's activity. It shouldn't be relied upon as an accurate statistical measure of a player's worth. Having said that, I'm surprised at the resistance my post drew. (Not really surprised. I'm merely saying that out of politeness. Like anyone else here would've generated those responses other than me.) Convoluted arguments to try and show that Sewald, if not the best reliever, was close to the best. And then the GOP gun control mantra --- "Now's not the time to talk about this". Hey Kong: When was the right time to have had this discussion?

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 09:56 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Having said that, I'm surprised at the resistance my post drew. (Not really surprised. I'm merely saying that out of politeness. Like anyone else here would've generated those responses other than me.) I wish you knew how silly the tortured martyrdom routine is to 96.875%* of the people who read it year after year after year. batmagadanleadoff wrote: And then the GOP gun control mantra --- "Now's not the time to talk about this". Hey Kong: When was the right time to have had this discussion? I apologize, urinate on anything you like (except the electronics). *+/- 0.125%

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 16 2017 10:27 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Vic Sage wrote: i think Mags is right, mathematically, that a system that awards (+) for good performances, but no (-) for bad perfs is likely to favor players with larger swings in their perfs. That's just math, right? But i don't know that it necessarily effected the Sewald vote, and i don't know that it matters a bit either way. The Schaeffer is not an attempt to create an unassailable new sabrmetric statistic, but is merely a way to keep everybody together and interactive over the course of a long season. And the "player of the year" is a way to keep a diary of our thoughts over the year, and from year to year. We've built a history together and the Schaefer is one of the ways we've recorded that history. I don't think it's a breach of conduct to offer critique of the system, perhaps toward evolving it as we move forward, and the day the results are announced are exactly the time to have that conversation. But as i said, i don't care to improve it; it's "accuracy" is only important in that it accurately reflect what the board is feeling at any given moment, and cumulatively, and creates a record of those judgments. Perhaps the creation of a negative score option would allow for that, but I leave that to Ben to decide. Mr. Grimm does a great job of keeping it all going despite widespread lack of involvement. I participate sporadically each season (even some games that i just evaluate by the box score and news reports) but i tend to lose my will over the course of a bad year. I'll try to do better next season, and hopefully the Mets will too. What he said. Mags didn;t pee on anything from where I sit

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 10:50 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

I agree with Vic's post and hell I agree with batmag's assertions/analysis. There is a buzzkill factor - saying in essence that Shaefer sucks and here's why - hours after the year's results [crossout:16ecili6]for the year[/crossout:16ecili6] are presented is pretty piss-y to me. I assure everyone I'll reel in my delicate sensibilities (and fondness for the tradition) and not utter another word on the subject.

Edgy MD Oct 16 2017 11:00 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

That PotM timeline (BRUCE-CONFORTO-DEGROM-DEGROM-CESPEDES-REYES) is a pretty good summary of the season. The best hitters the first two months were guys (Bruce and Conforto) who would be memories by the end of the season. The middle of the season was four days of futility, waiting for the day our number-one starter (deGrom) might give a glimpse of what a winning team looks like. Céspedes took until August to get untracked, before also disappearing for the rest of the year, and the last month was lineups stocked with fill-in players, best embodied by Reyes, playing wherever on the field, batting wherever in the lineup, playing out the string, trying to tack on to their year-end stats. An array of what went right can sometimes be a map of what went wrong.

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2017 11:11 AM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

My only points were that, despite him being a virtual unknown when the year started, Sewald was probably, at worst, a top three NYM reliever this year; that I didn't think his season was particularly given to extremes in performance; and that 'Schaefer' placing him in an essential dead heat with the other two probable top guys hardly makes that a flaw in the system. And of course this argument will be taken up/extended later on when we get around to our year-end Top-30 ranking project, in which the Schaefer results will play only a minor role. Y'see even in CPF-land, Schaefer results don't wind up being the final word.

G-Fafif Oct 16 2017 02:04 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Based on cumulative voting totals reflecting positive contributions on a game-by-game basis, twenty-one non-relief pitching Mets were deemed better than any single Mets relief pitcher across an entire season. That might be the underlying story here. I do like that Sewald card, though.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 02:15 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Sewald did win with, by a considerable margin, the lowest total ever for a leading reliever. PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2006 - Billy Wagner, 40.39 points; 2007 - Aaron Heilman, 34.86; 2008 - Aaron Heilman, 34.50; 2009 - Francisco Rodriguez, 38.58; 2010 - Hisanori Takahashi 28.69; 2011 - Pedro Beato, 25.93; 2012 - Bobby Parnell, 29.01; 2013 - LaTroy Hawkins, 32.30; 2014 - Carlos Torres, 35.75; 2015 - Jeurys Familia, 35.85; 2016 - Jeurys Familia, 36.70. But how about the fact that Jacob deGrom was the only pitcher who finished in the Top Eleven? If Jacob deGrom didn't exist, the winner would have been Robert Gsellman, with nearly 55 fewer points than deGrom had!

G-Fafif Oct 16 2017 02:21 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Sewald did win with, by a considerable margin, the lowest total ever for a leading reliever. PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2006 - Billy Wagner, 40.39 points; 2007 - Aaron Heilman, 34.86; 2008 - Aaron Heilman, 34.50; 2009 - Francisco Rodriguez, 38.58; 2010 - Hisanori Takahashi 28.69; 2011 - Pedro Beato, 25.93; 2012 - Bobby Parnell, 29.01; 2013 - LaTroy Hawkins, 32.30; 2014 - Carlos Torres, 35.75; 2015 - Jeurys Familia, 35.85; 2016 - Jeurys Familia, 36.70. But how about the fact that Jacob deGrom was the only pitcher who finished in the Top Eleven? If Jacob deGrom didn't exist, the winner would have been Robert Gsellman, with nearly 55 fewer points than deGrom had! Pedro Beato's self-esteem has suddenly shot skyward. If Jacob deGrom hadn't existed, I might have preferred the 2017 Mets not doing so, either.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 02:28 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Oops, somehow I scanned past Beato's 25.93 points in 2011. Sewald's 22.41 is still the lowest, but not by as considerable a margin as I first thought. Hisanori Takahashi in 2010? If I had a thousand guesses, I wouldn't have come up with that.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 02:32 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Oh, and here's where I thank all of our wonderful Schaefer spokesmodels who did such a great job throughout the year. We had 36 who carried over from last year, plus 18 new ones added for 2017. Currently, there are no plans to expand the list for 2018, but we'll see what happens. CLASS OF 2016[/bigpurple] CLASS OF 2017[/bigpurple]

G-Fafif Oct 16 2017 02:41 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Takahashi was a capable closer, pressed into a new role when K-Rod went out for the year (injured after his suspension). Eight saves for a mediocre club otherwise going through the late-season motions, Would probably be the No. 2 starter on the 2017 Mets, too. Miss Rheingold got all the publicity, but Schaefer voting attracts some very attractive spokespeople.

Edgy MD Oct 16 2017 02:46 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

We should have a vote-off on who the best Schaefer spokesperson was. I dig how b/w characters got b/w colorpath backgrounds.

d'Kong76 Oct 16 2017 03:00 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

It's a brilliant line-up, isn't it. I don't really remember the Canadian geese but somehow I have some kind of deja vu thing that I've said that before.

41Forever Oct 16 2017 03:00 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Edgy MD wrote: We should have a vote-off on who the best Schaefer spokesperson was. I dig how b/w characters got b/w colorpath backgrounds. I love that Cleon Jones just appears among the ax murders, killer sea creatures, strangling snakes, flesh-ripping monkeys, backpack girl and the other colorful characters! Is that Maga in there above the ax-wielding young lady?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2017 04:46 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

It's Maja. I don't do "maga".

41Forever Oct 16 2017 05:07 PM Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It's Maja. I don't do "maga". Lol! Just caught that.