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Infield Scramble

Edgy MD Dec 09 2017 09:00 PM

Among the pile of infielders that have been rumored as Mets targets — Kipnis, Dozier, Hernandez, Kinsler, Walker, Nuñez — a new name has been added: [tweet:eouieyf7]https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/939543999832051712[/tweet:eouieyf7] I never particularly liked this guy. And still don't even as he's coming off probably his best (partial) season. He's a solid starter but I think opinions about him are inflated because he's got a cool name. And his power is inflated by hitting at YSIII.

Centerfield Dec 09 2017 09:05 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Not a knock on you or Castro but this makes me want to hurl. MFY fans are jubilant that they got Stanton for nothing. Now we are hoping to dig through those scraps. Makes me sick. As for Castro, career 733 ops. Doesn’t walk. Middling power. Expensive. Costs players. Pass. Rather give it to Flores.

Nymr83 Dec 09 2017 11:29 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Centerfield wrote: Not a knock on you or Castro but this makes me want to hurl. MFY fans are jubilant that they got Stanton for nothing. Now we are hoping to dig through those scraps. Makes me sick. As for Castro, career 733 ops. Doesn’t walk. Middling power. Expensive. Costs players. Pass. Rather give it to Flores. If he were the best option for the Mets, the "Yankees castoff trash" angle shouldn't matter, but I agree with the rest. I have no interest in Castro because he isnt that good and would cost trade assets. A similar player can he had on the free agent market for nothing but Wilpon's cash, assuming you are steong enough to open his wallet with a crowbar.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2017 12:00 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Nymr83 wrote: A similar player can he had on the free agent market for nothing but Wilpon's cash, ... Who's your man?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2017 12:38 AM Re: Infield Scramble

I've never been a big Casto guy. I suppose Mets could do worse.

Nymr83 Dec 10 2017 12:51 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: Nymr83 wrote: A similar player can he had on the free agent market for nothing but Wilpon's cash, ... Who's your man? Well, before I even get to the FA market, Flores is an equivalent hitter already under contract so maybe Wilpon's scarce resources should go elsewhere if this is the level of player they are looking at. But on the market, i'd be much happier to re-sign Neil Walker as compared to acquiring Castro for even a mediocre prospect.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2017 02:08 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Well free agents cost something that is often equivalent to prospects, as they may get three or four year commitments at this season's rates, while trade acquisitions might mean one or two years at rates reflecting a market from a few years prior. And, of course, trading allows you to get the guy who you want, rather than just the guy who is available. That said, I hates them trades.

smg58 Dec 10 2017 02:08 PM Re: Infield Scramble

He's another option. My plan A, if he is willing to play second, is Zack Cozart. But there are plenty of acceptable options.

MFS62 Dec 10 2017 03:17 PM Re: Infield Scramble

If TJ Rivera recovers from his surgery early enough to play significant time this year, would the acquisition of any other second baseman be necessary? To me , he looks like he'd a better hitter than many of the names being mentioned, and his defense isn't any worse than Danny Murphy's. I'd target a full time third baseman with power if they don't feel Wilmer can't hold that job full time. Later

Edgy MD Dec 10 2017 03:30 PM Re: Infield Scramble

With a good chance that neither Rivera nor Wright will be ready for opening day, or possibly beyond, they are currently projected to open with Reynolds and Cecchini on the roster. They seem committed to pursue a big league quality infielder to create more certainty. The question here is that, if this is going to come to pass, who would you have it be?

MFS62 Dec 10 2017 06:31 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: With a good chance that neither Rivera nor Wright will be ready for opening day, or possibly beyond, they are currently projected to open with Reynolds and Cecchini on the roster. They seem committed to pursue a big league quality infielder to create more certainty. The question here is that, if this is going to come to pass, who would you have it be? The Mets now have Cabrera to be a regular second baseman. My gut feel is that that Rivera would be ready sooner, and be more productive, than Wright. I'd rather they get a third baseman with power - Todd Frazier. When Rivera returns, he can fight it out with Cabrera to see who plays second, or one of them could play third if Frazier has to play some games at first. Of course, I'd rather see Wilmer be the third baseman for the next ten years, but you asked what I would do if they had to add someone. What would YOU do? Later

Ashie62 Dec 10 2017 10:43 PM Re: Infield Scramble

They could sign Todd Frazier for 3b and use Cabrera at 2b and keep Flores to move around. Not a big Castro fan, Starlin or Fidel.

Nymr83 Dec 10 2017 11:31 PM Re: Infield Scramble

If the Mets are serious about winning, Wright can't be part of 'Plan A' at this point. If he ever stays healthy, you figure out the playing time then.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2017 11:55 PM Re: Infield Scramble

If Wright isn't part of Plan A, I don't particularly see Frazier carrying the football. The Mets have had plenty of high-strikeout, low-average power hitters. He had something of a breakthough in the walks department in 2017, but I'm not sure I trust it. I trust his .222 batting average a little more. I wouldn't kick him out of bed, but I don't think he's the guy to knock Flores out of the lineup.

MFS62 Dec 11 2017 02:42 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: I wouldn't kick him out of bed, but I don't think he's the guy to knock Flores out of the lineup. That's the way I feel. So, if they HAD to add somebody, who would you go after? Later

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 02:57 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Brian Dozier gets my blood pumping. Cesar Hernandez has me intrigued. Jason Kipnis looks like he could step it up on the rebound and be pretty expendable if he doesn't. Those are three. Maybe in that order.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 03:00 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Sign Walker and then go hard at Dozier. if you get him, oops. find a 3B glove for Walker or trade him.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 03:01 PM Re: Infield Scramble

My hunch is that it's going to be Kinsler from Detroit, if the Mets are able to get him in exchange for a token prospect.

MFS62 Dec 11 2017 03:02 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: Brian Dozier gets my blood pumping. Cesar Hernandez has me intrigued. Jason Kipnis looks like he could step it up on the rebound and be pretty expendable if he doesn't. Those are three. Maybe in that order. Good choices. If there is a chance to get Dozier I'd be all in on that. He's a second baseman who hits like a third baseman should. What more could I ask? :) Later

Edgy MD Dec 12 2017 01:27 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Joel Sherman has suggested the name of Ryan Goins has been floated about. I love Doug Flynn as much anybody, and more than most, but if we're goin' Goins, I'm hoping it's on a minor league deal.

MFS62 Dec 12 2017 02:21 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: Joel Sherman has suggested the name of Ryan Goins has been floated about. I love Doug Flynn as much anybody, and more than most, but if we're goin' Goins, I'm hoping it's on a minor league deal. I don't care if he's the second coming of Bill Mazeroski with the glove (well, maybe) , with that OPS+ (65) it would have to be a VERY minor league deal. Sometimes, I think Sherman writes stuff like that just for the heck of it. Later

smg58 Dec 12 2017 02:23 PM Re: Infield Scramble

We have two infield roster spots to fill, one starter, one reserve. Goins is an option for the reserve spot, but on an NL team I prefer my backup infielders to be bat-first rather than glove-first.

Nymr83 Dec 12 2017 02:34 PM Re: Infield Scramble

what does Goins bring to the table that we don't already have in Matt Reynolds?

Edgy MD Dec 12 2017 02:38 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Good hands, big league experience, second base specialization, and redundancy, I guess.

41Forever Dec 12 2017 06:07 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My hunch is that it's going to be Kinsler from Detroit, if the Mets are able to get him in exchange for a token prospect. I think he'd be a good short-term option.

Valadius Dec 12 2017 06:32 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Edgy MD wrote: I think opinions about him are inflated because he's got a cool name. I agree with this analysis.

Nymr83 Dec 12 2017 07:35 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Kinsler fell off a cliff, but i'd take a shot on his rebounding as i think its the last year of his deal?

Edgy MD Dec 12 2017 08:21 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Mike Puma is reporting Jed Lowrie and versatile 2014 wonder Josh Harrison as other prospective infield candidates. Man, this isn't narrowing down quickly, is it?

Valadius Dec 12 2017 09:08 PM Re: Infield Scramble

I'd definitely kick the tires on Kinsler.

Ashie62 Dec 12 2017 11:41 PM Re: Infield Scramble

I'm getting a Josh Harrison vibe. Don't know why but he may very well be the guy.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2017 12:38 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Harrison looks ok...

Ceetar Dec 13 2017 12:53 AM Re: Infield Scramble

I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining.

Ceetar Dec 13 2017 12:55 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ceetar wrote: I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining. apparently that was 2016 and he bounced back. still doesn't really walk enough, but he's pretty useful.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2017 01:08 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ceetar wrote: I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining. This sentence also tended to work as an answer to "Who's your favorite Beatle?" after, say 1974.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2017 03:54 PM Re: Infield Scramble

The Post reports that the Mets are one of ten teams on Ian Kinsler's no-trade list. LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — The Mets’ first choice at second base may be Ian Kinsler, but all that matters if a trade can be completed with the Tigers is if Kinsler has mutual feelings. Kinsler has a 10-team no-trade clause and he has a ton of leverage because the three teams most focused upon — the Mets, Angels and Brewers — are all on his list, The Post has learned. Thus, he would have to approve a trade to any of those clubs, and it is believed only the Angels are a near-certain yes right now. This is a new wrinkle: The rebuilding Tigers picked up Kinsler’s $11 million 2018 option specifically to trade him. The 35-year-old is coming off his worst season, hitting just .236 with a .725 OPS. But he still had 22 homers and 14 steals while continuing to be viewed as an above-average defender at second base. If they really picked up his contract in order to trade him, then he won't come cheaply for some token prospect as you might expect if it was a pure dump of an unwanted salary. It may come to that, if the Tigers have misjudged the market, but it seems clear that they'll at least start with asking for more than that.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2017 03:59 PM Re: Infield Scramble

I don't think so. The point of picking up the option is they believe it suits the market for Kinsler, or is a below-market salary, and therefore he's worth something as a trade chit, rather than just letting him walk. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll insist on driving a hard bargain. Mets made the same gamble on Jay Bruce, and then they lost? And then they won? and then they either lost or won when they flipped him for Indians relief prospect and male stripper Ryder Ryan.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2017 02:19 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Not official yet but it looks like Kinsler is headed to the Angels even though they were on his no-trade list too. Just as an aside on those partial NT clauses; players who get them don't necessarily choose those teams they don't want to play for but instead will choose the teams they think [u:24e9dfhq]might want to try and trade for them[/u:24e9dfhq] at some point during the length of the contract. That's why it's often the big market clubs on their lists rather than small ones since small market clubs generally don't make deals for players with big contracts. Thus the partial N-T turns into more of a complete N-T if you pick the right teams.

Centerfield Dec 14 2017 04:36 AM Re: Infield Scramble

I'm ok with "losing out" on Kinsler. In fact, I'm unimpressed by most of these names I'm reading. Kipnis. Harrison. None of these guys are any better than Neil Walker. And Walker doesn't cost you players.

Ashie62 Dec 14 2017 04:43 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Walker wants a 4 year deal. Bejeezuz. Not happening with us.

Centerfield Dec 14 2017 04:46 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ashie62 wrote: Walker wants a 4 year deal. Bejeezuz. Not happening with us. And not a single team has been rumored to be willing to go that far. Not even three. No expert is predicting he will get it. So in the same way Yoenis Cespedes wanted 7 years, he can ask for whatever he wants. But his ultimate asking price should be in the Mets' wheelhouse.

Edgy MD Dec 14 2017 04:52 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Yeah, the difference in years can often be worth a player or two, when the marbles are counted out. But while this guy may be arguably better than that guy, and that guy arguably better than the other guy over there, I think Brian Dozier is pretty unambiguously better than Walker. I got no particular problem with bringing Walker back, but I'd still prefer more of a table setter — high OBPs, top-of-the-order, base-running skills at some level, etc. On the other hand, the funny thing about Walker's 2017 is once the Mets traded him to Milwaukee, he walked like a fiend.

smg58 Dec 14 2017 01:40 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Lots of viable 2B options still out there. I'm in no rush. On the third-base front, are the Orioles seriously considering trading Manny Machado?

smg58 Dec 15 2017 07:09 PM Re: Infield Scramble

For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base).

Ceetar Dec 15 2017 07:17 PM Re: Infield Scramble

smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base). I would've considered that as well.

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2017 07:29 PM Re: Infield Scramble Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 15 2017 07:41 PM

Depends, I suppose, on whether one feels his [Cozart's] 2017 offensive uptick is real. His 933 OPS / 141 OPS+ was his best ever by a long shot (769 / 108 back in 2015) and now for his age 31 - 33 seasons (turns 32 in August of next year) and no longer a SS where he at least used to have the advantage of being a plus defender. 3 years @ $12.67 per

smg58 Dec 15 2017 07:35 PM Re: Infield Scramble

I hope that means that Kipnis is Alderson's plan A and we're closing in on him. But I guess we'll see.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 16 2017 06:48 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base). I would've considered that as well. Thirded. Last year WAS a career year, true, but his walk rate and hard-hit percentage had been trending steadily upward leading up to it; if there's regression to the mean, it should not be crippling, given what was paid. Hell, his contract has an AAV that's 4 mil more than a pretty good middle reliever's, and it's much cheaper than what we'll likely pay for Kipnis in prospect value.

Centerfield Dec 16 2017 01:06 PM Re: Infield Scramble

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base). I would've considered that as well. Thirded. Last year WAS a career year, true, but his walk rate and hard-hit percentage had been trending steadily upward leading up to it; if there's regression to the mean, it should not be crippling, given what was paid. Hell, his contract has an AAV that's 4 mil more than a pretty good middle reliever's, and it's much cheaper than what we'll likely pay for Kipnis in prospect value. Yup. And as I mentioned in the other thread, he provides Rosario insurance.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 20 2017 05:28 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Mets may trade AJ Ramos for a second baseman and then sign one of the remaining "high-end" relievers. http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2017/1 ... econd.html

Edgy MD Dec 20 2017 05:43 PM Re: Infield Scramble

A perfectly flippable asset. Not a bad plan at that.

Ceetar Dec 20 2017 07:34 PM Re: Infield Scramble

if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 20 2017 08:52 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Yeah you do but going out and buying another reliever might not be my first order of biz.

Lefty Specialist Dec 20 2017 08:52 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Ceetar wrote: if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it. Without hesitation. Ramos did not impress me.

Nymr83 Dec 20 2017 09:26 PM Re: Infield Scramble

I would definitely take Kipnis for Ramos. Kipnis has had a very odd career so far - in 6 years both his offensive and defensive values had fluctuated pretty wildly - twice being very poor, twice average, and twice good. just looking at his career line, he isn't any better than Cabrera. that's not to say he isnt an upgrade over playing time that would go to Smith vs. lefties or Flores vs righties, but he isnt that great a player.

smg58 Dec 21 2017 02:55 AM Re: Infield Scramble

If trading Ramos gets us a good second baseman and a contract for Addison Reed, that's win-win.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 22 2017 06:23 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ceetar wrote: if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it. If Ramos get you Kipnis, you start asking if they'll take Guillorme for Lindor. Y'know, before the Ambien wears off.

Ashie62 Jan 21 2018 05:51 PM Re: Infield Scramble

We return to 2b. Brian Dozier is still out there. He would be so goodlookin in a Mets uniform.

Edgy MD Jan 21 2018 07:33 PM Re: Infield Scramble

Well, he's out there in the sense that he's still employed by the Twins at a below-market rate, so he's not exactly there for the asking. But yeah, he's certainly better than most if not all options being bandied about.

Mex17 Jan 21 2018 07:55 PM Re: Infield Scramble

FWIW, Neil Walker came in at #9 for MLB Network's "Top 10 Second Basemen Right Now" program.

bmfc1 Jan 22 2018 12:10 AM Re: Infield Scramble

Ashie62 wrote: Brian Dozier is still out there. He would be so goodlookin in a Mets uniform. The #3 2B in the game according to MLBN.