Master Index of Archived Threads


Dumping Harvey

Centerfield Dec 11 2017 02:34 AM

Kristie Ackert says the Mets are talking to teams to move Harvey for middle relief. Maybe Jason Middlebrooks is available. As if they couldn’t get any dumber. Not sure how much more of this I can take. This weekend needs to end.

Nymr83 Dec 11 2017 02:45 AM Re: Dumping Harvey

Buy High, Sell Low? Ok, you're right, they haven't actually shown a willingness to "buy" at all. Even if the Mets have decided they'd never give Harvey a long-term deal, I don't see how the return on him now is a better asset than the return you'd get in July if he rebounds, even if you "divide the value" of the 'July asset' by the chance of rebounding. happy to be proven wrong. if the Mets get a top 60 reliever (a guy who would be top 2 on an average bullpen) on a decent contract i'd accept that as a reasonable return.

smg58 Dec 11 2017 01:33 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Well I'm all for bringing in a safer bet for the rotation, which would mean moving either Harvey or Wheeler (or perhaps both, if you feel more confident with Lugo or Gsellman). We're at a point in the offseason where you talk to everybody about everything.

Centerfield Dec 11 2017 02:06 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

There is absolutely no reason to give up on Harvey for a middle reliever considering how many are available for nothing. If this happens I will absolutely lose my shit. This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 02:27 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I thought it would be about moving a pitcher who stunk up the league last season, who perhaps still has value but not so much for the Mets. He had the worst ERA of any pitcher in Mets history who made as many starts as he did. Going back to 1962. He's certainly not untouchable. OE: And he's been a chronic jerk.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2017 02:28 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Centerfield wrote: This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad. If the Mets are looking to dump Harvey (which I think is probably more fiction than fact) it's to dump Harvey and the baggage and not his salary. I can't imagine Sandy's phone is ringing off the hook inquiring where they stand on him.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 02:28 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I don't know... if they trade him for a young reliever with a few years of control remaining, it might not be such a bad thing. And it will give them another $7 million or so to work with. It is frustrating that they have a limited budget, but it's a fact. The Wilpons are the curse that's been inflicted on this generation of Mets fans. I wish they'd either spend like a New York team should spend or else step aside, but given the constraints that they apparently (and inexplicably) have, a deal like this might be a good move.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2017 02:34 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I thought he made $3 mil something not $7 something... Rotoworld says $5.125.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 02:35 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

It's not like the Yankees don't move on from an exciting young pitcher when his career doesn't gain traction. #IvanNova It's not the money but the amount of patience you are or aren't willing to give a guy who is losing games for you and acting like a tool. I hope they keep him, but understand if they don't.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 02:38 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

d'Kong76 wrote: I thought he made $3 mil something not $7 something... Rotoworld says $5.125. I think his estimated salary for 2018 is around $7 million, but since it hasn't been decided yet, it's just speculation. He's eligible for arbitration.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2017 02:38 PM Re: Dumping Harvey Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2017 02:42 PM

I don't care what the Yankees did/do really. My feeling on Harvey is that I want him to come to camp in stellar shape ready to be in the middle of the rotation and regain some shine to his star. If the Mets are good, great. If they suck, trade his ass in July.

seawolf17 Dec 11 2017 02:39 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

d'Kong76 wrote: Centerfield wrote: This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad. If the Mets are looking to dump Harvey (which I think is probably more fiction than fact) it's to dump Harvey and the baggage and not his salary. I can't imagine Sandy's phone is ringing off the hook inquiring where they stand on him. I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now. At the same time, if some other team has a youngish talented young pitcher they're equally frustrated with who they're willing to trade, you'd have to consider it. But I can't see them just giving him away.

d'Kong76 Dec 11 2017 02:39 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He's eligible for arbitration. Yes, you're right. I read 2017 like it was now.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 02:42 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

seawolf17 wrote: I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now. At the same time, if some other team has a youngish talented young pitcher they're equally frustrated with who they're willing to trade, you'd have to consider it. But I can't see them just giving him away. Right, I'd swap him for a similarly talented pitcher. but on the other hand, we just swapped his pitching coach and trainer. That might be just as good. I doubt the Mets are primarily concerned with dumping him to get rid of him if they just tendered him. It doesn't really seem worth keeping him around if you're best case is a reliever in a trade. well, I guess that's not true. You could use the depth of Harvey on the roster as a 'threat' when you tell Darvish/other GM that you don't need another starter.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2017 02:44 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Their mistake was not trading him after he loaded up on coke between the 8th and 9th innings of Game 5. He's been a terrible teammate.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 02:45 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

seawolf17 wrote: I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now. I can.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 02:48 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I can too. Right now, there's at least the hope that he's had more time to recover and will pitch well in 2018. If, however, we get to May 15 and he has an ERA of 8.50, his trade value will be worse than it is now.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2017 02:49 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Harvey is the kind of asshole I wish the Mets would be getting creative with, not dumping him when his trade value is at its lowest. Turn Harvey into that bad ass reliever we need. Maybe a season removed from thoracic outlet, the velocity and control are much better. If it doesn't work or he's still shitty, then his value is still next-to-nothing and we can trade him for the boring, low-value, known-commodity we're no doubt chasing right now. Don't be boring, Mets!

41Forever Dec 11 2017 03:15 PM Re: Dumping Harvey Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2017 03:50 PM

I wouldn’t dump him. You figure that with the new manager and pitching coach, and with him being extra motivated by being closer to free agency, the conditions are favorable for him to get it back together. Or, if he can't get it back together under these conditions, he’s never going to get it back together. The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 03:22 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

41Forever wrote: The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around. Highly doubt it. I'm kinda concerned there seems to be a clubhouse chemistry vibe around this discussion.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2017 03:52 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: 41Forever wrote: The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around. Highly doubt it. I'm kinda concerned there seems to be a clubhouse chemistry vibe around this discussion. Assholes are never fun to be around, regardless of the room or the profession. If a shitty baseball player is also an asshole (allegedly!) and his own peers don't like working with him, then yeah, I'd understand if there was a larger push to move him.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 03:57 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

and why do we think he's an asshole, particularly to his teammates? He seems pretty typically a 'sports bro' type guy to me. And while that might be abrasive in an office, I doubt it's grating on a team of 25+ baseball players.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 04:03 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: and why do we think he's an asshole, particularly to his teammates? Because he's publicly and repeatedly demonstrated asshole behavior. That's not the last word, but it's certainly indicative.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 04:11 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

you mean the showing up late stuff? I doubt Wilmer Flores is grumbling about that. I doubt Jacob deGrom looks over to the next rubber and thinks "that bum, out to all hours enjoying the city!"

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 04:12 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: you mean the showing up late stuff? I mean the publicly and repeatedly demonstrating asshole behavior.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 04:13 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

links/specifics please. it's a very broad and vague term.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 04:15 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I shouldn't need to document Matt Harvey's douchecraft.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 04:18 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Feel free to google "Matt harvey" + "douche." You can use variants. "Matt harvey" + "huge douche" "Matt harvey" + "enormous douche" "Matt harvey" + "asshole" "Matt harvey" + "headache" "Matt harvey" + "scalawag" "Matt harvey" + "rapscallion" "Matt harvey" + "cocaine" "Matt harvey" + "biggest dick" Judge for yourself or not. But please don't act coy and pretend the evidence isn't out there. It is.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 04:19 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 04:22 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it. I didn't suggest that it was. I suggested that he has publicly and repeatedly demonstrated asshole behavior. You ask for evidence all coy-like and pretend it isn't raining from the sky. Come on. Don't jerk people around. Please.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2017 04:31 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it. Geez. We've all been on teams where there's one or two guys who act as though the rules don't apply to them and/or let you down when they don't show up on time and shit the bed as a result. You wouldn't necessarily blab about this to reporters covering your workplace, you get by anyway, but it's not as though it doesn't matter.

smg58 Dec 11 2017 04:34 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Harvey would have been non-tendered if the Mets were simply looking to dump him. Which means if they offer him to other teams, they are expecting value in return.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 04:37 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it. I didn't suggest that it was. I suggested that he has publicly and repeatedly demonstrated asshole behavior. You ask for evidence all coy-like and pretend it isn't raining from the sky. Come on. Don't jerk people around. Please. then learn to read. There is no reason to simply dump Harvey because of his personality, unless that personality messes with the clubhouse. It's just garbage piling on otherwise, and if he's got a 2 ERA into June he'll be guest-staring on TV shows again and living large or whichever 'nice' term for asshole the media feels like using that month. Ceetar wrote: yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it. Geez. We've all been on teams where there's one or two guys who act as though the rules don't apply to them and/or let you down when they don't show up on time and shit the bed as a result. You wouldn't necessarily blab about this to reporters covering your workplace, you get by anyway, but it's not as though it doesn't matter. the headache/heartbroken no-show bit is the big one. I can't speak to what he was like the rest of the year, if his apology was accepted, if he was working hard, etc. If he continued that behavior, sure, a "let's get rid of this guy" makes sense. If you attribute a lot of his struggles to not being prepared, or not working hard enough, or coming in hungover regularly, or whatever, sure. But if he showed up and did his work the rest of the year, it feels foolish to release him based on 'character' with a new set of coaches. He was late to a postseason workout in 2015 too. I'd be interested in knowing if there were other/lesser situations like this, where he wandered in late/hungover on non pitching days? It being Harvey though, I feel like someone would've blown that up already.

Centerfield Dec 11 2017 04:37 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

First off, there are plenty of instances where it looks like Harvey has acted in a way that fans and media found him annoying. But I've never heard one report, one suggestion, that he wasn't well liked by his teammates. So yes, if one is going to make that statement, it should be backed up with specifics. If they are all over the place, citing 2-3 shouldn't be difficult. But most importantly, dumping Harvey has nothing to do with whether or not he's an asshole. It's about the money. I don't know why we pretend it's anything but that. It's money.

Centerfield Dec 11 2017 04:40 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

smg58 wrote: Harvey would have been non-tendered if the Mets were simply looking to dump him. Which means if they offer him to other teams, they are expecting value in return. Certainly. They realize there is value in a player with as much upside to Harvey. That's why there is value. But that's also why you keep him. To possibly take advantage of that upside. And if it doesn't work out? Well then you write off that salary. What do you get by trading him? A middle reliever? Then you lose that potential, and you get a middle reliever. Something that that is bountiful out there right now, with no personnel sacrifice necessary. It's money.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2017 04:46 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I was the one that said that if Harvey was an asshole and his teammates didn't like working with him, then I'd understand a greater push to trade him. After he was hungover and late to the park or missed his start, whatever it was, I remember teammates talking to the press about him having to get his shit right and show up for work. I read that as dudes being pissed at his behavior. Maybe they're all the best bros now, maybe they never stopped being best bros, I don't know. But that act will wear thin on anyone, if not corrected, employers at the top of that list. Especially if the ERA is still in the 6 neighborhood.

Valadius Dec 11 2017 05:01 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Wasn't the incident where he was hung over and didn't show up to the ballpark related to him seeing an ex with someone else and losing it?

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 05:03 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Valadius wrote: Wasn't the incident where he was hung over and didn't show up to the ballpark related to him seeing an ex with someone else and losing it? yeah. he was 'heartbroken' supposedly. I don't think that was ever confirmed, though perhaps he just drank himself silly as a result.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2017 05:23 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

The guy embarrassed the club not for the first time, cost us a game back when a win was still relatively important, ended Wilk's career with the club which had repercussions down the food chain, and broke a rule every one of teammates didn't, and lied about it. What he's up all night for is not the issue and given the signs "drank" probably isn't the activity that knocked him out. I suspect ballplayers actually have a certain respect for mates who can do all those things and still help the team but Harvey was about the worst player in baseball last year.

Vic Sage Dec 11 2017 05:34 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Harvey's upside is as a #1 starter... that's not just "potential", like some unknown prospect, that's proven on the major league level. He's had injuries and major surgeries since. Maybe he can come back from that, maybe he can't, but its sure as hell worth more than some middle reliever to let some other team find out. Asshole? Sure... so? He's our asshole unless we dump him. He didn't hit anybody, or rob a bank. No overt racism or xenophobia, nor accusations of sexual abuse, as far as i know, which puts him in the choir boy section of jockhood and certainly makes him a better role model than our current president. No, no "dumping". Sure, nobody is untouchable, but i'm not selling low on him just cuz he's a dick. And his teammates will love him up, down and sideways if he starts pitching great again and helps them win. So what's the rush? Ah, the money... well, we'll see if that's the reason based on what they spend this off-season.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2017 05:48 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I'm not saying they should trade him for a reliever now; I said we should have traded him when his value was higher. I'm mostly arguing this notion that his dickery and suckitude is some kind of benign thing for the club. Of course it affected teammates.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 06:04 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

After 2015, I was thinking that the ideal time to trade Harvey was after the 2016 season, when he was still two years away from free agency. If he had had a 2016 like his 2015, he would have brought back a good return. But his 2016 ended in injury, so then the time to trade him was after his 2017 rebound, when he was still one year away from free agency. That didn't work out either. I don't regret that the Mets didn't trade him, because I think the only ideal chance to do that was after 2015, and that would have seemed, at the time, to be premature. My main regret in this area is that things played out in a way that there was never a good time to trade him in over the last twelve months.

Centerfield Dec 11 2017 06:24 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Yes, JCL and BG are right. Right after the 2015 would have been the time to trade him. But seriously, what benefit do we get from doing it now? Nothing at all to back this up, but I feel like Matt Harvey is going to be solid in 2018. Maybe even better than solid. I hope it's for us.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 06:49 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Centerfield wrote: Yes, JCL and BG are right. Right after the 2015 would have been the time to trade him. But seriously, what benefit do we get from doing it now? Nothing at all to back this up, but I feel like Matt Harvey is going to be solid in 2018. Maybe even better than solid. I hope it's for us. But how could you trade him in 2015? it feels ambitious to have hoped the other existing SP depth would hold up and you could swap him for an equally (I think there was a unsubstaniated Mookie Betts swap) talented hitter feels risky for a team that expects to return to the playoffs the very next season. I was tracking his pitch f/x stuff start to start last season for a while. It always felt like his pitches had movement still, he's still got some velocity. I'm just reading data, but it always felt like he was getting different results than he was used to in terms of break and such. That the pitches were still _good_ he just hadn't figured out how to make them effective. So if you're looking for something to hope on, it's probably that. a year removed from the surgery, a season under his belt, a new pitching coach and a pitching-friendly manager, maybe they can focus those tools somewhat.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2017 07:15 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Well, my point was that in retrospect, after 2015 was the best time to trade him. I can't fault them for not doing that, because at the time it would have seemed premature. As I said above, if he had had a solid 2016 I would have traded him after that season. That would have been ideal.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2017 07:24 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I'm pretty sure you could find me advocating we move him while he was hot. Sure it was risky and a retrospective no-brainer. Pitching is unpredictable but Harvey being is a douche isn't.

Vic Sage Dec 11 2017 07:24 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm not saying they should trade him for a reliever now; I said we should have traded him when his value was higher. I'm mostly arguing this notion that his dickery and suckitude is some kind of benign thing for the club. Of course it affected teammates. it may have affected teammates, but not necessarily in any way that had any impact on their ability or willingness to play well, and they'll be thrilled as the dickens to have him if he pitches well once more.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 11 2017 07:36 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

In hindsight, there was no optimal time to trade Harvey. Grimm's post is spot-on. Sometimes, things just don't work out and there's nobody or nothing that deserves any blame. It's a shame, really. Harvey emerged as baseball's best pitcher for a few months, and it's all been mostly a terrible and sad downhill ride ever since, with another peak mixed in there in 2015. You can hope for Harvey to still have somewhat of a high ceiling, and maybe that'll come to pass. But it's probably likelier that Harvey's glory days are over.

metirish Dec 11 2017 07:39 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Fuck the Wilpon's and all belonging to them

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 07:46 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

batmagadanleadoff wrote: In hindsight, there was no optimal time to trade Harvey. Grimm's post is spot-on. Sometimes, things just don't work out and there's nobody or nothing that deserves any blame. It's a shame, really. Harvey emerged as baseball's best pitcher for a few months, and it's all been mostly a terrible and sad downhill ride ever since, with another peak mixed in there in 2015. You can hope for Harvey to still have somewhat of a high ceiling, and maybe that'll come to pass. But it's probably likelier that Harvey's glory days are over. I mean, even like a 3.95 ERA would be very very useful for the Mets. the NL avg was 4.44 last season. 92.4 was the average fastball velocity, Harvey's was 94.3. That's hardly glory days, and he'd probably still get criticized constantly for it, but it'd be very much worth what they're paying him.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 11 2017 08:01 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

metirish wrote: Fuck the Wilpon's and all belonging to them Yeah. That, too.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 08:26 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: then learn to read. Really? We're going there?

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 08:32 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: then learn to read. Really? We're going there? Don't object to my posts by pretending I said something I didn't and then assert that I'm jerking you around. And don't tell me to google something that doesn't exist. there are no comments from his teammates, even anonymously, ragging on him and calling him an asshole. there's no real indication that he's bad for the clubhouse. I'd prefer not to drag a player's character down when discussing his value to the team, whether he's a good person or not.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 08:33 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Centerfield wrote: But I've never heard one report, one suggestion, that he wasn't well liked by his teammates. I've certainly gleaned several times that coaches and teammates were pissed at him. Much of it may require reading between the lines, and quotes out of context. While none of it is conclusive in itself, there is a convincing preponderance, including and especially Terry Collins choosing not to back him up at key times.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 08:33 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: Don't object to my posts by pretending I said something I didn't and then assert that I'm jerking you around. I didn't pretend anything. And you were jerking me around. Please don't presume to tell me what to do.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 08:38 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: But I've never heard one report, one suggestion, that he wasn't well liked by his teammates. I've certainly gleaned several times that coaches and teammates were pissed at him. Much of it may require reading between the lines, and quotes out of context. While none of it is conclusive in itself, there is a convincing preponderance, including and especially Terry Collins choosing not to back him up at key times. so you're saying this is your opinion, not that I can google it and drown in it. I disagree.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 08:42 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I never asserted anything as fact with regard to his teammates' feelings.

HahnSolo Dec 11 2017 08:45 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Second hand, someone just told me MLBNetwork is speculating on a potential Harvey for Jurickson Profar deal. I have no idea how accurate that is. Profar has thus far underperformed (to say the least), but he is still only 24.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 08:52 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

HahnSolo wrote: Second hand, someone just told me MLBNetwork is speculating on a potential Harvey for Jurickson Profar deal. I have no idea how accurate that is. Profar has thus far underperformed (to say the least), but he is still only 24. very inaccurate, if anything. One of the Rangers beat guys suggested it as an idea earlier today, probably in response to the mostly unfounded "Harvey for a reliever" speculation that the Mets were willing to move him and need relief help (though not necessarily together) Then someone mentioned that the Mets and Rangers had some lunch together briefly, and someone drew some lines between some dots and voila, rumor.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2017 09:00 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: Second hand, someone just told me MLBNetwork is speculating on a potential Harvey for Jurickson Profar deal. I have no idea how accurate that is. Profar has thus far underperformed (to say the least), but he is still only 24. very inaccurate, if anything. One of the Rangers beat guys suggested it as an idea earlier today, probably in response to the mostly unfounded "Harvey for a reliever" speculation that the Mets were willing to move him and need relief help (though not necessarily together) Then someone mentioned that the Mets and Rangers had some lunch together briefly, and someone drew some lines between some dots and voila, rumor. Even though Ceeter knows more than anyone that this is #FakeNews, I've long had a crush on Profar, and mining very talented guys that other teams are giving up on is good idea here, I think. Oh and Ceets, it's unlikely any teammate is gonna say to a beat writer, "that Matt Harvey is an asshole" but after he showed up late after partying, one anonymous teammate said this anyway: https://nypost.com/2017/05/09/extremely ... rgiveness/ “Actions speak louder than words,” one Mets teammate said after Harvey apologized for skipping Saturday’s game, leading to the right-hander receiving a three-game suspension from the club. “We’ve all been out late, but you’ve got to show up. You’ve got to go to work.” Sounds very David Wright-y, but it's still criticism from a teammate. That's not made up. It's not nothing.

G-Fafif Dec 11 2017 09:03 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Tweets Heyman While rangers have a bit of interest in matt harvey word is they don’t like a straight deal for profar since harvey is a free agent after year and profar is under control. While concept has merit, seems like there are issues for both sides. Seems unlikely.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 09:08 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

[tweet:25ogbhh8]https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/940319530424860673[/tweet:25ogbhh8] as a result of [tweet:25ogbhh8]https://twitter.com/Evan_P_Grant/status/940319710155034624[/tweet:25ogbhh8] I clearly spend too much time on twitter that I can see all these crumbs. But work is slow.

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 09:10 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Oh and Ceets, it's unlikely any teammate is gonna say to a beat writer, "that Matt Harvey is an asshole" but after he showed up late after partying, one anonymous teammate said this anyway: https://nypost.com/2017/05/09/extremely ... rgiveness/ “Actions speak louder than words,” one Mets teammate said after Harvey apologized for skipping Saturday’s game, leading to the right-hander receiving a three-game suspension from the club. “We’ve all been out late, but you’ve got to show up. You’ve got to go to work.” Sounds very David Wright-y, but it's still criticism from a teammate. That's not made up. It's not nothing. Agree. it's not nothing. That's the one major issue you'd point to. But it also reads as "you screwed up" more than "you're a bad person".

A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2017 09:31 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Ceetar wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/940319530424860673[/tweet] as a result of [tweet]https://twitter.com/Evan_P_Grant/status/940319710155034624[/tweet] I clearly spend too much time on twitter that I can see all these crumbs. But work is slow. Were both those tweets really at the same time? In that dude Evan Grant's article, he shows a different Heyman tweet w/out the reference to Grant's piece. Was wondering if Heyman made the edit to show his source? Or Heyman found it and added it as a second voice to back his rumor? I dont understand twitter all that much.

cooby Dec 11 2017 10:00 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

HahnSolo wrote: Second hand, someone just told me MLBNetwork is speculating on a potential Harvey for Jurickson Profar deal. I have no idea how accurate that is. Profar has thus far underperformed (to say the least), but he is still only 24. So has Harvey lately

Ceetar Dec 11 2017 10:14 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Were both those tweets really at the same time? In that dude Evan Grant's article, he shows a different Heyman tweet w/out the reference to Grant's piece. Was wondering if Heyman made the edit to show his source? Or Heyman found it and added it as a second voice to back his rumor? I dont understand twitter all that much. I'm not sure, I didn't actually read that article as it was just Rangers speculation. Their was someone else that was talking about the Rangers and Mets talking, but I'm not sure who made the connection to the rumors to pick those players. Both Heyman and Grant were tweeting about it in general. It's just noise.

Nymr83 Dec 11 2017 10:29 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Profar has pretty much never shown the talent he supposedly had. Harvey hasnt shown he is healthy enough to get back what he had. Given the difference in remaining years under control is rather take my chances on Profar today if that was truly an option 1 for 1.

Valadius Dec 11 2017 10:50 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I'm fine moving Harvey if we get an everyday player in return.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2017 11:57 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Nymr83 wrote: Harvey hasn't shown he is healthy enough to get back what he had. I question whether health is the issue. His velocity was down last year, but by how much? From 96 to 94? He should be able to work at that speed to get outs. But what was really lost was his precision control. He was all over the place, missing off the plate and missing over the plate. That may be a function of diminished health, true, but it also may be a function of the other things that make a guy pitch with control: discipline, coordination, confidence, etc. If the issue is those latter things, I'm not sure it makes him more or less likely to rebound, but I sure hope the project is more focused on the control than the extra 2 MPH. He gets more outs with his slider than his fastball anyway. Or he did.

cooby Dec 12 2017 12:30 AM Re: Dumping Harvey

I think he's young enough to get it back. But does he have the "heart"? He gets a playboy wife, what else does he need?

smg58 Dec 12 2017 02:35 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

There are all kinds of reports concerning Harvey. Like I said, this is the time of the offseason where you talk to everybody about everything, and there appears to be genuine interest in Harvey from a bunch of places. So he might be dealt, but he won't be given away. (And again, if the Mets were truly interested in "dumping" Harvey and his contract, they could have simply non-tendered him.) Mark Carig of Newsday doesn't think the Mets would trade Harvey given the current state of the rotation, but I was working under the assumption that a starting pitcher ranked high on the Mets wish list. (It's at the top of mine.)

Ceetar Dec 12 2017 02:39 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I mean, i wanted Ohtani AND Darvish. Sandy's phrased it as more of a reliable workhorse type. I doubt they're trading Harvey too, unless they're blown away with something.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2017 02:41 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Starting pitcher should be near the top of the shopping. Our depth is seriously lacking depth. I read something yesterday that Harvey for the O's Brad Brach was kicked around by one or both sides. We flirted with traded for him or signing him a season or 2 ago, IIRC. I'm way less in favor of a move like this compared to the #FakeNews Profar trade which I'm all about.

Ceetar Dec 12 2017 02:46 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

deGrom, Thor, Gsellman, Harvey, Lugo, Matz, Montero, Wheeler right? or is one of them under the knife and I forgot? It's hard to keep track. technically that's 8 guys for 5 spots already.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2017 02:48 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I think all eight of those guys are expected (as much as possible, of course) to be healthy and ready to go. As long as there's not another calamity like last year, they should have enough starting pitching for the season. The question is, how much quality is in that mix? I have faith in deGrom and Syndergaard. Beyond that, there are a lot of questions.

Ceetar Dec 12 2017 02:52 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Flexen too I guess. Who'll be at the QBC.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2017 02:53 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Yah, i'm w/ BG on quality and durability. The number of dudes scares me less than "THESE ARE THE DUDES".

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2017 03:47 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

I didn't realize until just right now that Dan Warthen is now an assistant pitching coach for... wait for it... the Texas Rangers.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 12 2017 07:31 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm pretty sure you could find me advocating we move him while he was hot. Sure it was risky and a retrospective no-brainer. Pitching is unpredictable but Harvey being is a douche isn't. I'm pretty sure I was relatively hot and heavy for a Harvey-for-position-prospects trade during that winter, too.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2017 07:37 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Here's a thread on Trading Harvey. That's from when he was, you know, an asset.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2017 07:44 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Can we still get Xander Bogaerts for him?

seawolf17 Dec 12 2017 08:00 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Can we still get Xander Bogaerts for him? Let's follow the Cap'n Intangibles plan and have Mookie Wilson buy the Red Sox and then trade him to us.

d'Kong76 Dec 12 2017 08:12 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Edgy MD wrote: Here's a thread on Trading Harvey. That's from when he was, you know, an asset. #toldyaso

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2017 08:20 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

what a sad, hilarious thread to read.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2017 08:24 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

How do you like my Votto deal now, sister?

41Forever Dec 12 2017 08:35 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Edgy MD wrote: How do you like my Votto deal now, sister? We can still see if Altuve and Trout are still available.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2017 09:09 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Now we can't even get a Brad Brach meeting. :'-(

Ashie62 Dec 12 2017 10:36 PM Re: Dumping Harvey

Someone may be willing to overpay for either Harvey, Wheeler or Matz. Ya Gotta Believe.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 13 2017 04:47 AM Re: Dumping Harvey

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Now we can't even get a Brad Brach meeting. :'-( Is it sad that I would take Brach in a heartbeat for him? Meanwhile, Philly continues to build the bullpen we should be building.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2017 05:13 AM Re: Dumping Harvey

Always plenty of relief talent. The offseason is a marathon, man.

Centerfield Dec 13 2017 06:02 AM Re: Dumping Harvey

I’m glad that we didn’t dump Harvey for a middle reliever today. In much the same way I’m glad Alabama didn’t left a pedophile. It’s shameful that we even have to worry about this, but glad it didn’t turn out worse.