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Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Edgy MD Dec 28 2017 02:47 PM

A name being bandied about. Plays second, plays third, hits at a consistent level that suggests the very soul of mediocrity, but may have some upside yet for the right team. Wears a fraying beard that suggests a bantamweight Dave Parker when the Bucs do throwback unis. Will steal a base or two but isn't what you'd call a basestealer. Will get a walk or two but isn't what you'd call an on-base guy. Ah, hell, I can think of four or five allegedly available secondbasemen I'd prefer, including Neil Walker. But Hairy has a $10+ million contract with two option years with buyouts. I can see him coming over in a deal along with the guy the Mets really want, perhaps McCutcheon or Cole. He'd be a Derek Bell in that sense. [fimg=500]https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JqA9ZbcpDfDLI5fVmdiwVdCwTKg=/0x0:5336x3558/1200x800/filters:focal(2171x1462:3023x2314)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/55668489/812159074.0.jpg[/fimg]

Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2017 02:49 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Do all Pirates caps have a brim with a flowery underside?

41Forever Dec 28 2017 02:51 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Do all Pirates caps have a brim with a flowery underside? That was from the All-Star Game. This guy was an All-Star?

Edgy MD Dec 28 2017 02:52 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I think that's his All-Star look. And hey, he was a 2017 All-Star! That's not nothing!

MFS62 Dec 28 2017 03:07 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Caught the tail end of an SNY discussion about the MFYs going after the Pirates' ace pitcher. They mentioned a few prospects going to Pittsburgh, and then at the end they said the deal would be the prospects for the pitcher and Harrison. It seems like he would be a welcomed addition to the Mets, but that SNY comment doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that the Mets will get him. Later

Centerfield Jan 16 2018 12:28 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

As I mentioned in the other thread, pass.

smg58 Jan 16 2018 12:49 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

A plus fielder at second base. Hoping for a repeat of 2014 might be too much to ask for, but last year was pretty good. Not sure I'm for trading while there are guys available who wouldn't cost players, but he'd be acceptable to me.

Centerfield Jan 16 2018 03:38 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

smg58 wrote: A plus fielder at second base. Hoping for a repeat of 2014 might be too much to ask for, but last year was pretty good. Not sure I'm for trading while there are guys available who wouldn't cost players, but he'd be acceptable to me. Agreed that last year was "pretty good". .771 OPS. But the two years prior were awful. And yes, 2014 was terrific, but all of this comes out to a career OPS of .735. He's expensive and costs players going back. He is fast though, so there's that.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 16 2018 03:51 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I kinda like him for his D and speed. Plus the Mets need a brother in the clubhouse.

cooby Jan 16 2018 04:13 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Oh please leave the pirates someone

Edgy MD Jan 16 2018 06:23 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Plus the Mets need a brother in the clubhouse. This is meaningful to management, isn't it? They'll have, like, seven Afro-Latin players, but if Smith doesn't make the team, there'll be no African-Americans. At least, not as they are currently comprised.

Nymr83 Jan 16 2018 07:57 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I'd like to win baseball games not fill racial quotas.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 16 2018 08:07 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Diverse teams perform better. https://hbr.org/2016/11/why-diverse-teams-are-smarter

bmfc1 Jan 16 2018 09:18 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Per Ken Rosenthal in The Athletic, the Pirates wanted Nimmo in a McCutchen deal and the Mets declined. Rosenthal said that the Mets could use Nimmo "as the centerpiece of a deal for Pirates super-utility man Josh Harrison" but are considering Eduardo Nunez who is a free agent. The two players are comparable multi-position threats. Nunez is 23 days older than Harrison. His career batting average is .282 to Harrison’s .281, and both have an identical career .735 OPS. If the Mets could sign Nunez for less than they would pay Harrison and still keep Nimmo, that seemingly would be a preferred option. https://theathletic.com/213673/2018/01/ ... mccutchen/

Edgy MD Jan 16 2018 09:24 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I read that. It's strange that Rosey doesn't tell us what the full package was. It's the first hint I've had this offseason that he Mets retain some of the regard for Nimmo that I do, so I'm kinda chuffed.

Nymr83 Jan 16 2018 09:26 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Diverse teams perform better. https://hbr.org/2016/11/why-diverse-teams-are-smarter This had zero to do with sports and I don't see hiw it would be at all applicable to hitting a ball.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 16 2018 09:28 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

It doesn't but I thought it was interesting stuff pointed out. I used to know one of the authors of that study

Edgy MD Jan 16 2018 09:32 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I totally see it. Rejecting received wisdom, analysing biases, innovation. All that is part of organizational culture and baseball performance. Diversity isn't the last word, certainly, but it also speaks to marketability. But when Chin-lung Hu hits .050, well, that's gonna precipitate a release no matter what box you check on the census. It's just a thing, but its a thing worth considering. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mets perhaps over-consider it. Nor would I be shocked if there was an unwritten rule out there about carrying at least one African-American on the roster and on the coaching staff.

G-Fafif Jan 16 2018 09:32 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Ken Rosenthal on the Athletic reports Mets refused to include Nimmo, who Buccos wanted for McCutchen.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 16 2018 10:13 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Edgy MD wrote: It's the first hint I've had this offseason that he Mets retain some of the regard for Nimmo that I do, so I'm kinda chuffed. That is rather intriguing.

Frayed Knot Jan 17 2018 12:33 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Consider also that you'd be giving up six years of Nimmo for one of McCutcheon.

Centerfield Jan 17 2018 01:58 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Nimmo? I like what I see too but I think you have to make that trade.

Centerfield Jan 17 2018 04:03 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

And now they’re saying that the Mets think Nimmo can be the centerpiece of a Harrison trade. Makes all the sense in the world. Refuse to include him for McCutchen. Trade him for the worse player. Beyond stupid if true.

Edgy MD Jan 17 2018 04:11 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

We don't know what the full package was in the proposed McCutcheon deal. Nor really for this alleged deal.

Centerfield Jan 17 2018 04:21 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Which is why there is the “if true” qualifier.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 17 2018 07:52 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Like McCutchen. Loved him, but still kinda like him. Are you sure he's definitively the better player at this point than the guy who still gives you decent offense, plays 4-5 positions (including 2 need positions for our squad) and gives you speed/defense at all of them?

Ceetar Jan 17 2018 12:56 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I'd rather give Nimmo a 2B glove.

Centerfield Jan 17 2018 02:48 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Like McCutchen. Loved him, but still kinda like him. Are you sure he's definitively the better player at this point than the guy who still gives you decent offense, plays 4-5 positions (including 2 need positions for our squad) and gives you speed/defense at all of them? I don't know that for a fact. Primarily because I have no idea how to really gauge defense, or figure out the relative value of defense like they do with WAR. I do tend to think WAR overvalues defense, but I don't have any science behind that. I also don't watch these guys play so I have no idea of gauging who is still likely to perform and who is losing their skills. I do know the following: *McCutchen is the much better hitter. It's not even close. Career .866 OPS versus career .735. McCutchen's 2016 was evidence that he was "shot". His OPS that year was .766. In Harrison's good year (2017) his OPS was .771. 2015 and 2016 are so ugly you don't even want to look. Neil Walker, who would cost no prospects, has a .778 OPS. Harrison would even represent an offensive downgrade even from our in house options. Flores, Rivera, maybe even Phil Evans or Cheech could give you a low .700's OPS easily, and are just as likely (if not more) to give you a high 700's OPS. Sure, Harrison brings defense and versatility, but at what cost? *McCutchen also brings speed. 11 stolen bases versus 12 for Harrison. *Harrison is also "old". Not really. But for everyone who says McCutchen is risky because you don't get speed guys when they're old, Harrison is 9 months younger than McCutchen. *Harrison is not cheap. The option years are nice because they give flexibility, but $10 million+ for his production? I like Nimmo a lot. I would have given him up for a guy with upside like McCutchen. I wouldn't touch him for a guy like Harrison.

Centerfield Jan 17 2018 02:49 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Ceetar wrote: I'd rather give Nimmo a 2B glove. Ha. Really. Or even Obi-Juan. Didn't he used to play infield?

Edgy MD Jan 17 2018 03:32 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I don't think WAR over-values or under-values defense, so much as mis-values it, as WAR was developed before the revolution in tracking technology that continues to evolve our understanding of defense. One thing WAR (and her cousins, like fWAR) do mostly well is value defensive position. So while McCutchen is indeed the better bet with the bat, if you look at him as a leftfielder, he's several notches past a secondbaseman on the defensive spectrum, and that shaves off some of that difference. As does the general versatility. How much that shaves off is a point folks will differ on. And certainly folks will differ on how much to dock McCutchen when mentally plugging him into to center when his centering days seem objectively done. Unfortunately, like McCutchen, Harrison's got one year of control left, so that's a factor when weighing sending Nimmo over for either of them.

Vic Sage Jan 17 2018 03:34 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Nimmo for Harrison is the kind of thing the Mets would do. I would find such a deal... disturbing. At this point, i don't like any of the available 2b/3b options (including Walker and his bad back), and none are a better value than Flores at 2b. If they're not going to sign Moustakas and move Cabrera to 2nd (and i'm not saying that would be a great value move either, depending on what Moose ends up getting), Just sign a utility IFer (Nunez?Reyes?) and spend the money on a SP pitcher (Cobb? Lynn?) and another reliever (preferably LH - Tony Watson?) Nimmo/Lagares [until Conforto Returns] Cabrera [Conforto] Cespedes Bruce Flores A-Gon [or Smith] d'Arnaud/Plawecki Rosario if Rosario ever learns to take a walk, he can be pushed up to leadoff.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 17 2018 04:12 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I'll bet they can reel in Harrison without Zimmo. Harrison wants out of Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh doesn't have that much use for him. It's similar to the Walker situation a few years back. Unless the contenders for him get too frothy I'd bet that Nido and Callahan gets it done. WRITE IT DOWN

Vic Sage Jan 17 2018 04:33 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

so let it be written, so let it be done

Nymr83 Jan 17 2018 04:50 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Vic Sage wrote: Nimmo for Harrison is the kind of thing the Mets would do. I would find such a deal... disturbing. At this point, i don't like any of the available 2b/3b options (including Walker and his bad back), and none are a better value than Flores at 2b. If they're not going to sign Moustakas and move Cabrera to 2nd (and i'm not saying that would be a great value move either, depending on what Moose ends up getting), Just sign a utility IFer (Nunez?Reyes?) and spend the money on a SP pitcher (Cobb? Lynn?) and another reliever (preferably LH - Tony Watson?) rather than sign Moustakas, I'd pay the presumably lesser price for Todd Frazier who I think is just as good. Walker is fine with me as well. I do like Lynn though - sign him too! (oh wait we're the Mets...)

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2018 04:49 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Ken Rosenthal is saying that Nimmo for Harrison is still on the table. Rosenthal's article is behind a pay wall, but you can read about it indirectly here: MLB trade rumors: Mets dealing Brandon Nimmo for Pirates' Josh Harrison? For the Mets, the 30-year-old Harrison could represent a low-cost player that is capable of playing at a high level at multiple positions. Harrison is signed for $10.25M in 2018, and comes with team options for $10.5M and $11.5M in 2019 and 2020. In total, Harrison could be retained for three seasons at $32.25M.

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 05:02 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'll bet they can reel in Harrison without Zimmo. Harrison wants out of Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh doesn't have that much use for him. It's similar to the Walker situation a few years back. Unless the contenders for him get too frothy I'd bet that Nido and Callahan gets it done. WRITE IT DOWN Nido is Nimmo's best friend though! sad face

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 05:15 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Send them Jon Niese!

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 05:18 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

I'm not sure I'd want Harrison even in a salary dump. How are we not seeing that this guy is not a very good hitter? I keep hearing speed and defense. Defense maybe, but the speed is 12 stolen bases. Really?

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 05:21 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

He's probably capable of more offensively than he's shown. And if that's not true, he probably improves a weak defense from day one, while being an average hitter. But no, he's not what you cash in the Nimmo chit for. Not me, anyhow.

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 05:29 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Edgy MD wrote: He's probably capable of more offensively than he's shown. And if that's not true, he probably improves a weak defense from day one, while being an average hitter. But no, he's not what you cash in the Nimmo chit for. Not me, anyhow. And not for $10 million+ per year. He doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, he's never even stolen 20 bases. No way. I mean, the only way I get behind Harrison is if you tell me he costs nothing in a trade and their other option is Eduardo Nunez.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 05:54 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Yeah, I'm preferring the Reyes/Flores platoon at second. Other internal options too. I have no doubt the Mets like his versatility knowing that they'll have to be nimble going forward. But they can get that sort of versatility from other places. Internal options too.

smg58 Jan 29 2018 06:26 PM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

What I get from all this is that the Pirates want Nimmo, and the Mets would prefer Harrison over the other options (for defensive reasons) if Nimmo wasn't the return package. I'm expecting something else to happen.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2018 12:23 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Hey, let's drink a toast to not getting this guy.

Nymr83 Jul 27 2018 02:35 AM Re: Josh Harrison, He's Somebody Folks Talk About

Yay Mets!