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Mets Hot Stove

Centerfield Jan 26 2018 03:21 AM

Is airing now. Tough to watch. Basically just a propaganda piece. Giving Barwis an opportunity to defend himself. Introduced the performance guy. Sold the company line about how they are hoping for better health. Barwis basically threw Yo under the bus. Says his program stresses running and flexibility but Ces wasn’t into it.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2018 03:22 AM Re: Mets Hot Stove

I think that's part of his program. To help Céspedes with strength and resilience by literally throwing him under a bus. #barwismethods

Centerfield Jan 26 2018 03:53 AM Re: Mets Hot Stove

In other news, Barwis sounds like he chain smokes. Could definitely be Marge’s sister.

G-Fafif Jan 26 2018 04:05 AM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Barwis is a dead vocal ringer for Scott Ferrall, a syndicated voice on the FAN in the mid-to-late '90s and more recently with CBS Sports Radio. He pops up as a raspy talking head on NFL Network "Top 10" shows.

Centerfield Jan 26 2018 04:27 AM Re: Mets Hot Stove

G-Fafif wrote: Barwis is a dead vocal ringer for Scott Ferrall, a syndicated voice on the FAN in the mid-to-late '90s and more recently with CBS Sports Radio. He pops up as a raspy talking head on NFL Network "Top 10" shows. Good call. I haven't thought of him in years, but yes, I can see that. I'm trying to digest what I just watched. Really strange overall. A few random thoughts: *I am still trying to wrap around the idea that the Mets trotted out their new trainer on TV. I mean, I know they own the network and so they can do what they want, and the new guy has a fancy science title, but seriously, are we really watching 22 minutes on the new trainer? *Kinda awkward moment when the SNY guys referred to the new guy as an "army" guy. Alderson, an actual veteran, was quick to point out that performance guy (forgot his name) was never actually in the army. He only worked with soldiers. He did it diplomatically, but it feels like there was something more there. *So he's supposed to be high performance guy right? Super boring. I can't even remember his name. I know the point of tonight was for us to leave thinking "Wow, this guy is smart. We are are not going to break ourselves this year." But really, nothing. I came away not one bit more confident. So I guess this guy is not a doctor either. I mean, if we're going fake doctors, just sign Neil Patrick Harris. *I wonder who felt it was important for Barwis to come out and clarify that it was Cespedes who chose not to follow the program, and not that the program was flawed. Was it Barwis who had been bugging for a chance to defend himself? Or did the Wilpons buy him a suit, slap some makeup on him and give him a script? *Encouraging words, I thought, from Sandy. Reyes doesn't mean they stop looking for a starting infielder. Also, he continues to monitor the pitching. *You just wonder what these guys are thinking. "Wow, our fans are all outraged. We gotta calm them down. Lucy? Get me the SNY program director. Let's put Barwis on TV..."

Zvon Jan 26 2018 05:04 AM Re: Mets Hot Stove

^After how we nailed the last guy to the cross for our injuries (more so tried to for years and were finally rewarded), I surmise the Mets are very well aware of our disdain for the last one and want to pacify us with such P.R. moves. What they don't seem to understand is that if all goes well, and we never even see the guy, his name really don't matter to us all that much. At least I feel that way. This is just The Mets being The Mets. As a side note, I do believe Barwis has his own P.R. machine and it's not a small one.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2018 04:07 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

While listening to Barwis talk, I couldn't resist the urge to keep clearing my throat.

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 02:47 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

More on the Hot Stove Report and rumors that there is meddling from up top on medical decisions: https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/a-much-ne ... nightmare/ Conversations with 10 people possessing first-hand knowledge of the Mets’ baseball operations produced the picture of an ultra-intense environment, created by Mets ownership, in which the daily pressure to win, not only the games but the daily media coverage, has compromised the decision-making process and, hence, led to poor moves on multiple fronts. On the medical front, that has made the Mets the butt of many an industry joke. You don't like unnamed sources? How about ten of them? More: Several sources attribute the Mets’ faulty decision-making behavior to various factors. One is the organization feeling the heat of competing with the major leagues’ titans, the Yankees, for attention in the market with a payroll a fraction of the size and consequently less roster depth. Another is an environment where CEO Fred Wilpon and COO Jeff Wilpon both are prone to micromanagement, with Fred Wilpon more likely to assert himself in on-the-field decisions and Jeff Wilpon more involved in medical matters — such as working on media releases about injuries — clouding the chain of command. More and more, as these reports come out, a pretty clear picture emerges. Both Wilpons care quite bit about winning. Not just games, but back pages and praise from the fans and media. They especially care about competing with the Yankees. Seemingly at an unhealthy level. The problem is that they are not in a position to adequately fund a winner. They have limited funds (and in my opinion, acumen). And so this environment emerges. The stress from having to compete at a level where they are not equipped to compete is unbearable, and so you get micro-management, short-sighted decisions, clumsy Q&A sessions with select media where you end up confirming all the fans' fears.

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 03:12 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Davidoff might be on to something. The way they handled Reyes in 2004 is super relevant to 2018. He also randomly ascribed other injuries to meddling or mismanagement with absolutely no sourcing. The only actual sourced information is the idea that it's a pressure cooker, the influenced the decision making stuff is the source's opinion, and the rest is Davidoff spin. The other stuff isn't really news. we kinda knew that the Mets meddled with the PR of injuries, always want to control the message and always put the best spin on things. It's generally super easy to see through, but at least it's consistent. I've never understood why I'm suppose to be mad that they try to downplay the devastation of an injury or are super optimistic about how fast a guy will be back. They're heavily incentivized to do so.

Lefty Specialist Jan 29 2018 03:30 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

I've never seen a team that manages the disabled list worse than the Mets. And this pre-dates Sandy and Terry. 1) A guy gets injured. 2) You don't play him for a few days but don't put him on the DL, thereby playing essentially with a 24-man roster. 3) You play the guy after a few days and he's rusty/awkward. Questions arise, but you still don't put him on the DL, saying he'll be back in a few days. You're still playing short-handed. 4) A few days later you play him but he looks hurt or aggravates the condition. 5) Finally you put him on the disabled list. The number of times the Mets have gone through this process are too numerous to count. How many times have we heard 'The Mets really only have a 3-man bench tonight'?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2018 03:33 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Yes, this has happened a lot, and it does get frustrating. I don't know, though, if other teams handle this better. I'm sure some do, but since I don't pay close attention to any other teams, I don't have a feel for where the Mets fall on the spectrum. They may very well be the worst at this, but I don't know.

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 03:47 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Ceetar wrote: Davidoff might be on to something. The way they handled Reyes in 2004 is super relevant to 2018. He also randomly ascribed other injuries to meddling or mismanagement with absolutely no sourcing. The only actual sourced information is the idea that it's a pressure cooker, the influenced the decision making stuff is the source's opinion, and the rest is Davidoff spin. The other stuff isn't really news. we kinda knew that the Mets meddled with the PR of injuries, always want to control the message and always put the best spin on things. It's generally super easy to see through, but at least it's consistent. I've never understood why I'm suppose to be mad that they try to downplay the devastation of an injury or are super optimistic about how fast a guy will be back. They're heavily incentivized to do so. Well that's Davidoff's thesis right? That the prior injuries are relevant. Check out this quote from the Daily News: Last season, some in baseball wondered and whispered about how the Mets handled their injuries when they lost multiple stars to physical issues. Does that sound familiar? I edited it slightly for effect, but that was written in 2010. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... e-1.462470 This was following the 2009 season when the Mets recommended rest and rehab for Beltran's knee. Even after the season ended, they never recommended any further action. (They did, however, whisper about his toughness and shame him for sitting out with a "bruise") Frustrated when the pain returned, Beltran went to his own doctor, got it cleaned out, rested 12 weeks and put the issue behind him for good. We heard rumors from the Mets staff that the knee condition was career-threatening. He saw his own guy then went on to play 7 more years. This is no accident.

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 04:05 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

teams all do this stuff, so do doctors. What, the initial diagnostic of Beltran was more cautious and less predictive? shocker. no one jumps right into surgery at the first bruise. You're also looking at it from hindsight (the Church concussion thing too) when we know so much more about concussions, brain injuries, and micro-fracture surgeries. This actually re-affirms that a lot of the disagreement with Beltran and the Mets had to do controlling the message.

Frayed Knot Jan 29 2018 08:00 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Centerfield wrote: More and more, as these reports come out, a pretty clear picture emerges. Both Wilpons care quite bit about winning. Not just games, but back pages and praise from the fans and media. They especially care about competing with the Yankees. Seemingly at an unhealthy level. As I (and others) have said for years; it's not that they don't care -- I've never bought the narrative where their only goal is to separate fans from their money -- it's just that they don't know how to go about putting a plan into place and sticking with it. Too often they're caught between wanting to delegate to real baseball men yet also thinking of themselves that way too and thinking their interventions are necessary, or at least helpful. Lefty Specialist wrote: I've never seen a team that manages the disabled list worse than the Mets. And this pre-dates Sandy and Terry. 1) A guy gets injured. 2) You don't play him for a few days but don't put him on the DL, thereby playing essentially with a 24-man roster. 3) You play the guy after a few days and he's rusty/awkward. Questions arise, but you still don't put him on the DL, saying he'll be back in a few days. You're still playing short-handed. 4) A few days later you play him but he looks hurt or aggravates the condition. 5) Finally you put him on the disabled list. The number of times the Mets have gone through this process are too numerous to count. How many times have we heard 'The Mets really only have a 3-man bench tonight'? I think this stuff is a lot more common than fans tend to think and that if you -- me, us, any of us -- followed a different team as closely as we do with this one we'd see the same type of thing often. It would be nice if injuries worked like litmus paper where a distinct positive or negative result came up immediately but medicine isn't always like that.

dgwphotography Jan 29 2018 08:14 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

Didn't I say something to this effect (Jeffy being too hands on regarding the treatment of injured players) a little while ago, and was told it was patently ridiculous?

Ashie62 Jan 29 2018 11:23 PM Re: Mets Hot Stove

dgwphotography wrote: Didn't I say something to this effect (Jeffy being too hands on regarding the treatment of injured players) a little while ago, and was told it was patently ridiculous? Give them a Church Concussion!