Master Index of Archived Threads


Grinning into Oblivion

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 06:29 PM

Chief Wahoo officially riding into the sunset, will be gone by 2019. Yes, the question remains Why not now? but it's happenin'.

41Forever Jan 29 2018 06:47 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Long overdue. I know Manfred has been pushing for this. Now, will he push for a name change? Are the Braves next?

Mets Willets Point Jan 29 2018 06:47 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Team renaming next?

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 06:49 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Mets Willets Point wrote: Team renaming next? perhaps that's part of the reason for 'not until 2019' bit, as they come up with new branding/name?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2018 06:51 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I think the "not until 2019" thing is because there's a rule that requires a year's notice for these kinds of changes. Probably to give the merchandising people time to react. I imagine that they could find a way to make an exception for Chief Wahoo if they really wanted to.

Mets Willets Point Jan 29 2018 06:53 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I'd thought they'd been paring down on Wahoo anyhow. Like the big block C logo on the hats and websites has been prominent for a few seasons now.

HahnSolo Jan 29 2018 06:53 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

What I've read so far is that this only deals with "on field" uniform. Which is great, but not seeing anything official that they can't sell merch with the chief on it, or that you won't see it on signage, etc. So not totally sure that the logo is totally going away.

seawolf17 Jan 29 2018 07:01 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I'm positive it's merch-related. Not that they don't have time to have a fire sale and restock, but whatever. I think it's going away, just slowly.

Nymr83 Jan 29 2018 07:05 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

They ARE going to be selling the chief, I saw this was necessary to maintain their intellectual property over it.

41Forever Jan 29 2018 07:16 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I hope they come up with something more inspiring than the block C.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2018 07:19 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 07:30 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Long overdue. The only downside to this is hearing "Well I'm Irish and I have no problem with Notre Dame..."

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 07:34 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Centerfield wrote: Long overdue. The only downside to this is hearing "Well I'm Irish and I have no problem with Notre Dame..." it was at the end of a long week in Paris and I stupidly had on new shoes and I had blisters and didn't want to walk up to the top, geeze.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 07:53 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Centerfield wrote: Long overdue. The only downside to this is hearing "Well I'm Irish and I have no problem with Notre Dame..." I'm Irish-American and I TOTALLY have a problem with Notre Dame and their stupid brawling leprachaun. Send 'em my way.

Centerfield Jan 29 2018 07:56 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: Long overdue. The only downside to this is hearing "Well I'm Irish and I have no problem with Notre Dame..." I'm Irish-American and I TOTALLY have a problem with Notre Dame and their stupid brawling leprachaun. Send 'em my way. Sometimes I'd like to just get the portable version of Edgy and carry him around with me.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 07:58 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

The cheap version won't be out until 2020. And the current expensive version is VERY buggy.

Gwreck Jan 29 2018 08:03 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

in a statement provided to The New York Times that the Indians organization “ultimately agreed with my position that the logo is no longer appropriate for on-field use in Major League Baseball. . . .” Not a good look to suggest it was ever appropriate. Still, progress is good. Changing the team name next would be ideal.

dgwphotography Jan 29 2018 08:11 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Hopefully this is a step to completely rebranding the team. Changing their name to the Spiders would be cool.

Lefty Specialist Jan 29 2018 08:48 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Getting rid of Wahoo took this long, it'll probably be 2050 before they get rid of 'Indians'.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 09:08 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I'm mostly (70%?) okay with "Indians." While the name certainly represents Columbus' folly, it hasn't been discarded by consensus among Native American leaders as a legitimate designation for themselves, and isn't taken as a slur, at least not universally. It probably will fall more broadly out of favor among native Americans in time, so I have no problem with getting ahead of that and losing the name now, but it's not the first in line among things I'd agitate for. The stupid tomahawk chop, on the other hand ... the dustbowl of history awaits.

Nymr83 Jan 29 2018 09:24 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

The logo and the name aren't on the same playing field at all. Indians is not Redskins. It would be like having your team be called the "Hebrews" vs "Kikes" Spiders would be awesome though, they should do that. Think of the logo possibilities! And the mascots! (There would be mutiple mascots representing different spiders, arachnophobic opposing fans beware!)

41Forever Jan 29 2018 09:39 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

One of the big universities here changed its name from Hurons to Eagles, but another has held on to the name Chippewas. It was done though working with the tribe, which has a very high profile in the area. There's a cultural museum focusing on the tribe in a prominent place in the basketball area, and there is no imagery and certainly no mascot -- and nothing even resembling the tomahawk chop. My guess is that it's a lot easier for a university to work that closely with a tribe than a Major League baseball team. I also suspect that while the Wahoo caps are not being eliminated until 2019, they'll be used sparingly this year. Curious what Jim Thome's Hall of Fame cap will look like. I don't know if he ever wore the C, and I'm not sure Wahoo is on any Hall plaques at this point.

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 09:51 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

"tastefully" done or not, it still equates a group of humans to things like Grizzlies, the panthers, the huskies, the fighting iri.. It doesn't erase the racist reasons you adopted the logo/mascot/nickname to begin with. Chippewas is still implying a group of humans is local fauna. And even if you don't use the imagery, it's still pretty much implied by your history of using it.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 09:54 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Ceetar wrote: Chippewas is still implying a group of humans is local fauna. No, it isn't. Come on. Neither is Spartans, Trojans, Knickerbockers, or Cavaliers.

41Forever Jan 29 2018 09:55 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Not defending. Just showing how two universities handled it differently. And there is nothing like that horrendous image anywhere on campus today. Personally, I would have changed the name. But I didn't get a vote. I don't think I own anything that says "Chippewas," but instead says the school name and has the logo, which is a C -- but an "action C," as they call it. The university actually has an interesting post about the name, and noting the abuses in the past. The Central Michigan University Chippewas ​​ In 2002, Maynard Kahgegab, Jr., then chief of the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe, and Michael Rao, president of Central Michigan University, signed a proclamation pledging their support for strengthening the relationship between the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe and Central Michigan University “for the enhancement of each other’s goals and visions and for the greater good of all residents of the region, state, and nation.” The proclamation included a statement of support for the university’s continued use of the Chippewas nickname. CMU’s approach to the Chippewas nickname entails using it in a respectful and honorable manner. This respectful use of the nickname wasn’t always the case. CMU started using the Chippewas nickname in 1942 after CMU’s track and field coach Lawrence Sweeney approached the student council to request changing the nickname from the Bearcats to Chippewas. He argued that the Bearcat was too unfamiliar a mascot to provide the kind of atmosphere desired at athletic events and “the Chippewa name opens up unlimited opportunities for pageantry and showmanship.” In practice, this amounted to stereotypical imagery and mockery of Native ceremonies. The mimicking, stereotyping, and misrepresentation of Native American cultures and people are attitudes and behaviors that will not be tolerated and must be part of the past. Cultural misrepresentation occurs when Native American sacred objects, cultural ways of knowing, and traditions are used in a context that strips their cultural meaning. Because CMU proudly uses a nickname associated with a contemporary people, every effort is made to avoid engaging in behavior that demeans or belittles Native Americans. Such efforts to ensure the nickname is used properly include CMU copyrighting the Chippewas nickname to gain control over unauthorized use. CMU’s Responsibilities It is your responsibility as a CMU student or faculty/staff member to use the Chippewas nickname in a respectful and understanding manner. You can learn about this tribal nation’s rich heritage and respectfully use the Chippewas nickname by: Taking time to understand the Chippewa culture and history Attending Native American cultural events Enrolling in a Native American studies course Knowing the difference between respectful and disrespectful uses of the nickname Refraining from disrespectful behavior such as dressing like an “Indian” or performing the “Tomahawk chop” Upon learning the culture and history, let others know what it REALLY means to be a Chippewa

Ceetar Jan 29 2018 10:14 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: Chippewas is still implying a group of humans is local fauna. No, it isn't. Come on. Neither is Spartans, Trojans, Knickerbockers, or Cavaliers. I'm curious what you think nicknames are. Why schools have 'fight songs'. It's certainly not a hard and fast rule, plenty of teams choose imagery unrelated to locale and the battle thing. but just saying nice things about the culture you're appropriating doesn't excuse it. all those justifications for Chippewa are the same ones the Redskins are using. the sports/battle thing is so overlapped that it's hard to see any sports team using native American names, especially local ones, as thinking of them as warring savages. And you can't control everything about it, even if you don't use the imagery officially. Hell, the KC Chiefs have a blog called 'Arrowhead Pride'. You'll still get all sorts of Native American related imagery that you can't control, even if you sanitize the official ones.

Edgy MD Jan 29 2018 11:12 PM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

So good, you're backing off the fauna claim.

Ceetar Jan 30 2018 12:12 AM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

no. I have little doubt someone thought "what local animal can we pretend to be in a fight?" and get Chippewa.

Edgy MD Jan 30 2018 12:46 AM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

So then you're backing off the "still" claim.

41Forever Jan 30 2018 12:53 AM Re: Grinning into Oblivion

I guess it makes a difference, too, when the group you are deciding is offended is openly encouraging the school to keep the name. My degrees are from schools named “Lions” and “Tigers.” Pretty bland, though there is a good story behind the tigers.