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Rankings Project 2017

Frayed Knot Jan 21 2018 04:35 PM

Thought I forgot about this, eh? ... Not Bloody Likely!! Actually, I kind of did. At first I didn't want to step on Grimm's Tabloid Project, then I figured it best to wait until after the holidays ... and THEN I forgot about it. But now, with P&C only a few weeks away, it's back and [crossout:33lr0z7h]better than[/crossout:33lr0z7h] well, pretty much the same as ever. Anyway, you guys know the drill: Vote (no state-issued photo ID required) for 30 players from 2017 and rank them as to best/least contributors to this most frustrating of NYM seasons. And you get to choose your 30 from this outstanding group of 53 candidates - a group only slightly larger, and, sadly, about as charismatic, as the 2016 Republican field. Hitters (ranked from most PAs to least) REYES - CABRERA - BRUCE - CONFORTO - GRANDERSON d’ARNAUD - FLORES - CESPEDES - WALKER - DUDA LAGARES - TJ RIVERA - NIMMO - R RIVERA - SMITH ROSARIO - REYNOLDS - PLAWECKI - AOKI - CECCHINI TAIJERON - EVANS - NIDO and pitchers (most to least IP): deGROM - GSELLMAN - MONTERO - LUGO - HARVEY WHEELER - MATZ - SEWALD - SMOKER - ROBLES REED - BLEVINS - FLEXEN - SALAS - EDGIN BRADFORD - GOEDDEL - SYNDERGAARD - MILONE FAMILIA - PILL - RAMIREZ - RAMOS - RHAME McGOWEN - CALLAHAN - WILK - GILMARTIN

seawolf17 Jan 21 2018 06:07 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Weird. I thought we already did this. But maybe not.

Frayed Knot Jan 21 2018 06:26 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Second post of last year's Ranking thread (1/4/17): seawolf17 wrote: We definitely already did this. I remember doing it. (Didn't we?) I suggest that the mods put Seawolf into the concussion protocol; there seems to be a trend here.

seawolf17 Jan 22 2018 07:09 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Second post of last year's Ranking thread (1/4/17): seawolf17 wrote: We definitely already did this. I remember doing it. (Didn't we?) I suggest that the mods put Seawolf into the concussion protocol; there seems to be a trend here. Old age is hard, apparently.

seawolf17 Jan 22 2018 09:31 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Maybe it's because I spend too much time staring at this list and adjusting. Oy, this team sucked. Conforto deGrom Bruce Cespedes Granderson Reed Cabrera Blevins Nimmo Duda d'Arnaud Flores Walker Reyes Syndergaard Lugo Gsellman Wheeler Sewald TJ Rivera Bradford Lagares R Rivera Edgin Smoker Aoki Familia Plawecki Reynolds Rosario

Benjamin Grimm Jan 22 2018 11:06 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Here's my 30. What an awful year! Jacob deGrom Michael Conforto Jay Bruce Asdrubal Cabrera Wilmer Flores Jose Reyes Travis d'Arnaud Curtis Granderson Yoenis Cespedes Lucas Duda Neil Walker Jerry Blevins Addison Reed Juan Lagares Seth Lugo Josh Edgin T.J. Rivera Kevin Plawecki Brandon Nimmo Amed Rosario Dominic Smith Norichika Aoki Rene Rivera Chasen Bradford Jeurys Familia Paul Sewald AJ Ramos Hansel Robles Noah Syndergaard Phillip Evans

Vic Sage Jan 22 2018 03:31 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017 Edited 10 time(s), most recently on Feb 02 2018 12:37 PM

[on edit] Jacob deGrom Michael Conforto Jay Bruce Yoenis Cespedes Curtis Granderson Asdrubal Cabrera Jerry Blevins Addison Reed Lucas Duda Brandon Nimmo Seth Lugo Neil Walker Wilmer Flores Jose Reyes Juan Lagares Travis d'Arnaud Noah Syndergaard Jeurys Familia T.J. Rivera Kevin Plawecki Montero R.Gsellman Paul Sewald Zach Wheeler Chasen Bradford R.Rivera Aoki Amed Rosario Matz Dominic Smith i thought Harvey was such a net negative that i couldn't rank him. I was close to leaving off Matz and Smith, too, for the same reason, but i couldn't see putting in somebody over them who was barely there unless they had a Syndegaard-like impact. But infielders Reynolds, Cecchini and Evans, and relievers Robles, Ramos, Salas, Smoker and Edgin did not have that sort of impact; they didn't even make Rivera/Aoki/Bradford-level contributions.

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2018 07:09 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Youse guys was right. This was brutal to do. 30 - deGROM -- clearly the best pitcher in the lot and the only one on the team to have a good season AND go wire to wire with it 29 - CONFORTO -- best Runs Created on the squad, and even missing the final month he was 4th on the team in PA 28 - BRUCE -- kinda sad when the guy they tried to deal pre-season and then did deal at mid-season was the second best player 27 - CESPEDES 26 - REED 25 - DUDA 24 - GRANDERSON 23 - CABRERA 22 - REYES -- nice 2nd half saved him and earned him a re-up 21 - BLEVINS 20 - WALKER 19 - d'ARNAUD 18 - SEAWALD 17 - NIMMO 16 - FLORES 15 - WHEELER -- 2nd best starter had a 5.21 ERA 14 - TJ RIVERA -- if only he could actually play the field 13 - LAGARES -- if only he could hit 12 - GSELLMAN 11 - AOKI -- .371 OBA is nice fil-in work, even if only for 100 ABs 10 - MONTERO 9 - MATZ 8 - R. RIVERA 7 - PLAWECKI 6 - HARVEY 5 - SYNDERGAARD -- leading the team in ERA (2.97) counts for something even if only over 30-some IP 4 - REYNOLDS 3 - ROSARIO 2 - SMITH 1 - EDGIN/ROBLES -- I'll have to decide here. Edgin had the better ERA but Robles the better WHIP and twice as many IP oe: and I just realized I forgot Lugo so I obviously still have some work to do here

Nymr83 Jan 28 2018 08:16 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 30 2018 09:14 AM

wow, so many guys getting points who deserve SHIT Jacob deGrom Michael Conforto Asdrubal Cabrera Jay Bruce Yoenis Cespedes Curtis Granderson Travis d'Arnaud Wilmer Flores Seth Lugo Addison Reed Jerry Blevins Jose Reyes Lucas Duda Neil Walker Brandon Nimmo T.J. Rivera Zack Wheeler Robert Gsellman Rafael Montero Kevin Plawecki Noah Syndergaard Chasen Bradford Rene Rivera Juan Lagares Norichika Aoki Paul Sewald Amed Rosario Hansel Robles Dominic Smith Phillip Evans

Frayed Knot Jan 29 2018 04:41 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Nymr83; you list only 29 players ^^^

Nymr83 Jan 30 2018 09:12 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Frayed Knot wrote: Nymr83; you list only 29 players ^^^ I had a hard time getting the list past 15 really... i'll edit

Benjamin Grimm Jan 30 2018 09:16 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Me too, especially since I decided to leave off Harvey, Matz, Wheeler, Gsellman, and Montero.

Nymr83 Jan 30 2018 11:27 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

I left Harvey out as he was so bad for so many innings, the others snuck in on account of everyone else sucking. I think what we need is a new way to incorporate each season into the overall rankings - finishing 15th in this one shouldnt count for shit.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 30 2018 11:32 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

It does count for less. Frayed Knot can explain the details far better than I can, but bad seasons like 2017 get less weight than good seasons like 2015.

Frayed Knot Jan 30 2018 12:59 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It does count for less ... bad seasons like 2017 get less weight than good seasons like 2015. Right, by a factor based on win totals. So the 15th best player in a 66 win season, for instance, gets 3/4 of the point total that the same rank player gets from an 88 win season. 60 would yield 2/3 of 90, etc. Bonus points are given for season which include post-season and increase the deeper that team goes. No system is going to be perfect and we certainly make no claims (despite what BatMags thinks) that this one is. The key is to balance a player's rank within his year vs the year itself so that neither factor is overemphasized. So we fooled around with, and then test-ran, various formulas before launching this project and came up with the one we best thought mimicked reality.

MFS62 Jan 31 2018 08:02 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Frayed Knot wrote: Right, by a factor based on win totals. So the 15th best player in a 66 win season, for instance, gets 3/4 of the point total that the same rank player gets from an 88 win season. 60 would yield 2/3 of 90, etc. I think that was a similar issue with win shares. A player who had a good year on an otherwise lousy team would get more win shares than a player having the same year with a better team. Or was that true? OE: Now that I read that, maybe win shares had the opposite effect. Or am I getting confused? Maybe that's why I still like counting stats, and the newer slash line numbers. Later

d'Kong76 Jan 31 2018 09:45 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

The bottom part of this mess one could really just do alphabetically? Jacob deGrom Michael Conforto Jay Bruce Yoenis Cespedes Wilmer Flores Asdrubal Cabrera Addison Reed Curtis Granderson Travis d'Arnaud Lucas Duda Jerry Blevins Jose Reyes Neil Walker Juan Lagares Seth Lugo Josh Edgin T.J. Rivera Brandon Nimmo Kevin Plawecki Chasen Bradford Noah Syndergaard Amed Rosario Rene Rivera Paul Sewald AJ Ramos Norichika Aoki Jeurys Familia Dominic Smith Hansel Robles Phillip Evans

Ceetar Jan 31 2018 09:58 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Jacob deGrom Michael Conforto Curtis Granderson Seth Lugo Yoenis Cespedes Jay Bruce Juan Lagares Neil Walker Noah Syndergaard Brandon Nimmo Jose Reyes Rafael Montero Asdrubal Cabrera Lucas Duda Jerry Blevins Addison Reed Travis d'Arnaud Wilmer Flores Kevin Plawecki T.J. Rivera Robert Gsellman Paul Sewald Steven Matz Zack Wheeler Amed Rosario Jeurys Familia Nori Aoki Chase Bradford Phillip Evans Rene Rivera

G-Fafif Feb 14 2018 10:21 AM Re: Rankings Project 2017

30 DeGrom 29 Conforto 28 Bruce 27 Reed 26 Cabrera 25 Blevins 24 d'Arnaud 23 Reyes 22 Flores 21 Cespedes 20 Lugo 19 Montero 18 Gsellman 17 Wheeler 16 Granderson 15 Rosario 14 Plawecki 13 Nimmo 12 Lagares 11 Duda 10 Sewald 9 T Rivera 8 Walker 7 Aoki 6 Smith 5 Bradford 4 Familia 3 Syndergaard 2 Ramos 1 Matz Honestly, could've stopped after three or four slots.

Frayed Knot Feb 14 2018 12:11 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

Perhaps all we need to know about this past season is that multiple guys who would have been described as significant pieces of the supposed best staff in baseball as the season began -- Synderrgaard, Familia, Harvey, Matz, and Robles -- are all currently outside of our consensus top 20 and two of those five are looking like they'll wind up out of the top 30 and point-less for this season unless some late voting from outer precincts changes things.

Frayed Knot Mar 14 2018 07:40 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

My revised list. Wasn't any easier doing it the second time as compared to the first, but perhaps it's more 'accurate' ... whatever that means. Let's put a March 31st deadline on this for anyone who either hasn't contributed but wants to, or anyone who wants to update/adjust your existing list. If you do update then re-enter your list (as opposed to just editing it) so I'll see that you made changes. We'll put this thing into the books on April 1 30 - deGROM -- clearly the best pitcher in the lot and the only one on the team to have a good season AND go wire to wire with it 29 - CONFORTO -- best Runs Created on the squad, and even missing the final month he was 4th on the team in PA 28 - BRUCE -- kinda sad when the guy they tried to deal pre-season and then did deal at mid-season was the second best player 27 - CESPEDES 26 - REED 25 - DUDA 24 - GRANDERSON 23 - CABRERA 22 - REYES -- nice 2nd half saved him and earned him a re-up 21 - BLEVINS 20 - WALKER 19 - d'ARNAUD 18 - LUGO -- Actually the second best starter ERA on the team 17 - SEAWALD 16 - FLORES 15 - NIMMO -- decent production/small sample 14 - WHEELER -- 2nd best starter had a 5.21 ERA 13 - TJ RIVERA -- if only he could actually play the field 12 - LAGARES -- if only he could hit 11 - GSELLMAN 10 - AOKI -- .371 OBA is nice fil-in work, even if only for 100 ABs 9 - MONTERO 8 - R. RIVERA 7 - PLAWECKI 6 - BRADFORD 5 - SYNDERGAARD -- leading the team in ERA (2.97) counts for something even if only over 30-some IP 4 - ROSARIO 3 - REYNOLDS 2 - SMITH 1 - HARVEY

Vic Sage Mar 14 2018 09:32 PM Re: Rankings Project 2017

I can see Harvey over Matz (I guess), but Reynolds over Familia? I'm not f(am)eeling it.