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Olympics -- short track speed skating

TheOldMole Feb 10 2018 06:06 PM

I don't suppose anyone except me was up at 4 am to watch the short track speed skating, so here's a report. Short track speed skating is the national sport of South Korea, and the South Koreans are incredibly good at it. It's one of the most exciting Winter Olympic events. Unlike regular speed skating, which is two guys racing, not even against each other, but both against the clock, short track is a real race, with everyone going at the same time. This gives is a slightly roller derby aspect, in that people get knocked down, but it's not deliberate. If two guys fall, the judges determine which one was at fault, and he is disqualified. And for all the good it may do you, you can get up and keep racing. This was made clear in one 500M race, where three of the four skaters collided and went down. It was the semifinal heat, so the top two finishers advance, so all three had to get up and keep skating for second. It is not only incredibly fast, it's incredibly strategic, and the strategy is not so arcane that you can't follow it, the 3000M relay is one of the weirdest races I've ever seen. I couldn't completely understand how the relay worked. Strike that. I couldn't understand it at all. Unlike a track and field relay, where one person runs at a time, they're all skating all the time, the leaders -- I think -- in a large outer oval, everyone else in a small inner oval. The handing off from one relay skater to the next doesn't involve a baton, it involves a push. The South Korean women's team was heavily favored in the semifinal, but early on, they took a fall, and while the skater got up and persevered, they'd lost half a lap and were pretty much out of it. But as the race continued, the announcers started saying it was an extreme long shot that they'd be able to catch up with two other teams and finish second to advance to the finals. Then...less and less of a long shot. They were gaining. And then...I still didn't understand exactly how it was working, but I could see the four lead skater, and I could see the South Korean coming out of nowhere to move into second -place. And then challenging for the lead. And then winning. You may not read much about it, but this is one of the great stories from these Olympics.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2018 06:56 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

It seems utterly lawless to me. In a typical heat, four folks race, three vie for the lead, two collide on the last lap, they take out a third as they spin into the boards and the skater hanging back wins. Exciting, thrilling, fast, physical, but it doesn't seem particularly fair.

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2018 07:59 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Yeah, there's a demolition derby aspect to short track that makes the results seem more like a haphazard novelty to me. And while the long track does lack the head-to-head competition (as does skiing, and bobsled, and luge, and really much of the winter olympics, something which has always made it a poor cousin to the summer games -- or, for that matter, 'The Summer Game' -- to me) there's a beauty + endurance + suffering appeal to me in those longer, solo races. Norwegian author Karl Ove Knausgaard explains it better than I can And if nothing else, it's kind of fun just to watch entire sections of orange-clad Dutch fans jumping up and down over the results. oe: There was also something about skating on outdoor courses that's been lost. They went indoors for Calgary in 1988 and, to my knowledge anyway, for every one since. And while I'm sure there's a lot to be gained by the predictable ice conditions in regulated conditions, the visual of Eric Heiden setting at least one of his FIVE!! gold medals/world records* in a driving snowstorm on a course set up on what was essentially the front lawn of Lake Placid High School, was really cool. * everything from the 500m sprint to a 10K slog - a stunning achievement

TheOldMole Feb 10 2018 10:41 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

This year must be a bit of an outlier, then, because nothing like that ever happened. The races I saw were won by the best skaters.

cooby Feb 10 2018 11:05 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I think that is what Lee Mazzilli used to do

TheOldMole Feb 11 2018 12:18 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I would have thought of it that way too, before actually watching it.

Edgy MD Feb 11 2018 12:30 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

cooby wrote: I think that is what Lee Mazzilli used to do Mazzilli was three years older than Heiden. In my mind, he hit 18 when he first crossed paths with a 15-year-old Heiden and said, "You know what? Only one guy a generation is ever going to make bank in speed skating. Maybe I should stick with baseball." I think that skating made him a better ballplayer, though. Something that's lost in our era of single-sport specialization is the guys who bring skills and physical abilities from their secondary sports into their primary one, lending character and innovation to their game.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2018 01:26 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

TheOldMole wrote: This year must be a bit of an outlier, then, because nothing like that ever happened. The races I saw were won by the best skaters. I saw the 1,5000 meter final this afternoon (possibly a replay of one you watched live) and there was a crackup involving two of the favorites, a South Korean and a Canadian, in the nine man field. Another favorite, also South Korean, went on to win by nosing out a Dutchman. And while there was no question he earned the win, the final lap wipeout pointed out the huge degree of randomness in short track. The Canadian skater was deemed at fault in the crash and was DQ'd, while the fallen SK was simply gets a 'DNF', essentially meaning he was SOL to have been the guy in the path of the slip-sliding Canuck. Not his fault, iow, but also not the race's problem (if they tried to replay every race with a crash the mile racers would wind up putting in ten miles trying to win). That randomness is certainly part of the attraction of the sport, but it seems to me that you need to be the best AND the luckiest to a greater degree than any other competition I can think of. Wipeouts, especially in the final lap, are common and single skater wipeouts that DON'T take out at least one other competitor who just happens to be in the wrong place and the wrong time seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Just as easily the fall could have taken out the eventual winner or any (even all) of the others.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2018 01:31 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Edgy MD wrote: cooby wrote: I think that is what Lee Mazzilli used to do Mazzilli was three years older than Heiden. In my mind, he hit 18 when he first crossed paths with a 15-year-old Heiden and said, "You know what? Only one guy a generation is ever going to make bank in speed skating. Maybe I should stick with baseball." I think I remember Mazzilli saying that he raced against one or more of Bonnie Blair's brothers coming up through the ranks. She of course wound up dominating the women's events in the era following Heiden. Don't know how far any of the Blair brothers took skating but I'm betting they were pretty damn good and wagering on Wisconsin over Brooklyn in that sport is always the safer move.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2018 01:45 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

TheOldMole wrote: This year must be a bit of an outlier, then, because nothing like that ever happened. The races I saw were won by the best skaters. I mean, there is a crazy-shit quotient that tweaks the fairness of the thing JUST enough to make it fun... but it's not as if the best short-track skaters don't win because of the weirdness. It just rewards a slightly different skill set, just as the Le Mans, Grand Prix races, and Talladega reward different sorts of "speed driving." I'm an Olympic-year short-track enthusiast; for similar reasons, I find myself enjoying snowboard-cross-- 4 racers at a time, with the winner (or winner and runner-up) moving on, with quite a bit of bump-and-grind between start and finish-- more than most other skiing and boarding events.

TheOldMole Feb 11 2018 03:08 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Should we try to make a list of sports in which there is no random factor? We could start with chess, and go on to....well, maybe chess. Even a World Series can turn on a baseball freakishly dribbling through a first baseman’s legs.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2018 03:49 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Well, there are different interpretations of 'random'. Buckner didn't miss the ball because a baserunner knocked him over while he was trying to field it.

41Forever Feb 11 2018 05:18 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy MD wrote: cooby wrote: I think that is what Lee Mazzilli used to do Mazzilli was three years older than Heiden. In my mind, he hit 18 when he first crossed paths with a 15-year-old Heiden and said, "You know what? Only one guy a generation is ever going to make bank in speed skating. Maybe I should stick with baseball." I think I remember Mazzilli saying that he raced against one or more of Bonnie Blair's brothers coming up through the ranks. She of course wound up dominating the women's events in the era following Heiden. Don't know how far any of the Blair brothers took skating but I'm betting they were pretty damn good and wagering on Wisconsin over Brooklyn in that sport is always the safer move. My wife went to junior high school with Bonnie Blair in Illinois. True!

Nymr83 Feb 11 2018 08:47 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Frayed Knot wrote: Well, there are different interpretations of 'random'. Buckner didn't miss the ball because a baserunner knocked him over while he was trying to field it. If he had, the play would have been subject to non-random rules on interference. There is no way to enforce such rule fairly with more than 2 teams/competitors, though.

d'Kong76 Feb 12 2018 02:45 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

The 3000M relay was pretty cool, like the grab-tush and push. In my next life, I'm coming back as an Olympic curler.

Mets Willets Point Feb 12 2018 03:53 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

After reading this I watched the relay and that was pure chaos to my eyes. It was entertaining though since the audience was obviously reacting to something awesome happening that was invisible to me. KC, it's never too late to become a curler.

Ceetar Feb 12 2018 04:05 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Mets Willets Point wrote: After reading this I watched the relay and that was pure chaos to my eyes. It was entertaining though since the audience was obviously reacting to something awesome happening that was invisible to me. KC, it's never too late to become a curler. the US mixed team isn't very good, and i have no hopes for their real team. i'm convinced if they opened a Curling club in north jersey that I could be a member of, I could be on the 2022 team.

d'Kong76 Feb 12 2018 04:27 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Over the weekend someone told me there's a club in Ardsley, NY which isn't terribly far from me. He also said it's near impossible to get in and there is a waiting list longer than that for Giants season tickets. I haven't confirmed that, and he has been known to embellish a story from time to time...

Ceetar Feb 12 2018 04:56 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

d'Kong76 wrote: Over the weekend someone told me there's a club in Ardsley, NY which isn't terribly far from me. He also said it's near impossible to get in and there is a waiting list longer than that for Giants season tickets. I haven't confirmed that, and he has been known to embellish a story from time to time... I dunno about waits to join, but there's an Open House this weekend. That's probably still too far for me to regularly go though.

Edgy MD Feb 12 2018 05:09 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Start your own club, man. Waddaya need? 150 feet of ice?

Ceetar Feb 12 2018 06:31 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Edgy MD wrote: Start your own club, man. Waddaya need? 150 feet of ice? $$$$$$ mostly. Property taxes in Bergen county, construction costs, AC costs are probably high for a place like that. Dunno if Curling is enough so you'd probably want an ice rink on the side too. See if you can get local hockey leagues maybe? I'd then say I'd want an attached brewpub, but NJ laws mess that all up. Maybe I can open a Brewery with an attached Curling sheet ? That wouldn't run afoul of the laws as long as I didn't sell anyone some food. I figure I can get that off the ground for about 400k, plus labor. Anyone in?

Nymr83 Feb 12 2018 06:36 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

You forgot the 10 year $800k environmental review and litigation.

d'Kong76 Feb 12 2018 06:45 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

One mile hike from my driveway. Free! Bring shovels and beer. Oh and, ya know, curling equipment!

TheOldMole Feb 13 2018 03:16 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

There are all different kinds of random. There’s certainly a random element that’s built into football that every now and then someone is going to step on a guy’s ankle and break it and knock him out for the season. I’m watching the downhill now, and a guy who was ahead of the leader’s split times until he got caught in midair by a gust of wind, lost about three tenths of a second, and got knocked out of contention. If you watch short track, it becomes pretty clear that although unwanted collisions can affect the outcome, they aren’t really what the race is about. It’s not like roller derby. I’d guess one important strategic consideration is that you’d want to get near the front early and stay out of the pack.

Centerfield Feb 13 2018 02:13 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Chloe Kim. American Hero.

Fman99 Feb 13 2018 03:43 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

We watched last night. She tore up that pipe real good. Love me some Olympics. I enjoy the victories and the wipeouts in a 50/50 ratio.

Mets Willets Point Feb 13 2018 05:50 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I kind of wanted to see a snowboarder smack right into one of the photographers standing on top of the halfpipe, because I'm sick like that.

metirish Feb 14 2018 02:35 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Centerfield wrote: Chloe Kim. American Hero. Very cool, sweet kid.....and super cool for her to mention that she was "stocked" to win for America in her parents home country, and the sacrifices they made. I was super pumped for Shaun White last night as was Lorcan , he stayed up to watch.

MFS62 Feb 14 2018 02:41 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I've started following the Russian Women's Curling team: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/olymp ... -1.1609311 Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 14 2018 03:02 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I feel like Filip Bondy does a whole lot of genial-sexist shtick, especially when he goes on location (SB weeks, World Cups, and such). Am I wrong about that?

Centerfield Feb 14 2018 03:04 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I don't like all the fluff stories about the North Korean cheerleading section. Nothing against them individually, but understand the situation they are in. Their government demands 100% loyalty. They are told what to do, what to think, what to say. If they speak out, if they defect, it can mean that their loved ones at home are imprisoned, tortured, or killed. It is not a feel good story. Those people have a gun to their heads at all times.

MFS62 Feb 14 2018 03:23 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I feel like Filip Bondy does a whole lot of genial-sexist shtick, especially when he goes on location (SB weeks, World Cups, and such). Am I wrong about that? Never noticed, but now that you mention it, check out his expression in that picture of him. If that isn't a leer, I don't know what is. Later

HahnSolo Feb 14 2018 08:01 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I don't know what I'm going to do in a couple weeks when I no longer have Leigh Diffey and Duncan Kennedy talking to me about luge, or Chad Salmela breaking down biathlon/cross country.

Frayed Knot Feb 14 2018 08:22 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Olympic sports oddities: - Doubles Luge. So instead of one guy lying on his back and holding on for dear life after clawing at the ice to get going, you've got one guy lying on top of another guy (NTTAWWT) after they both start with a couple quick claws at the ice. Not exactly the same degree of difference as say between singles and doubles tennis. And if you're going to insist on putting two people on what is essentially a cafeteria tray with rudders, then at least make it mixed doubles. - Time-outs in Curling. What, the game isn't slow enough already? Putting in extra time to discuss strategies between throws (rolls? slides?) is like saying saying there need to be more breaks in cricket.

Lefty Specialist Feb 14 2018 08:25 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I've spent countless hours not watching any of this. Just not my cup of kimchi.

Ceetar Feb 14 2018 08:46 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Frayed Knot wrote: - Time-outs in Curling. What, the game isn't slow enough already? Putting in extra time to discuss strategies between throws (rolls? slides?) is like saying saying there need to be more breaks in cricket. There's a clock so they probably should just add the time out time to the total time you're allowed and just go for it. but yeah, there's some strategy to discuss, when you're at the end of an end and your next throw could easily be the turning point of the entire match.

Mets Willets Point Feb 15 2018 04:15 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Frayed Knot wrote: there need to be more breaks in cricket. If you don't break for tea, it's not cricket.

Edgy MD Feb 19 2018 02:04 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

The bronze medal winner in mixed doubles curling just failed his doping test, presumably costing his team their medal. CURLING! IS NOTHING SACRED?! WHY MUST RUSSIA RUIN EVERYTHING?!

cooby Feb 19 2018 05:30 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I remember curling as a bunch of old guys and a very quiet arena. That has changed. If I were a figure skater, I'd be super gluing my dress on. What is with the tailors making these poor girls' dresses?

d'Kong76 Feb 19 2018 05:56 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Edgy MD wrote: The bronze medal winner in mixed doubles curling just failed his doping test, presumably costing his team their medal. When I start my curling club the only PED's allowed will be Guinness and possibly some Jameson if needed.

Frayed Knot Feb 23 2018 12:13 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

I hope the traditional stakes for U.S. vs Canada hockey games still applies: y'know, loser gets custody of Bieber for the next year.

d'Kong76 Feb 23 2018 03:46 AM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Watched the third period, overtime and shoot-out tonight. Hot damn, USA!

MFS62 Feb 24 2018 03:52 PM Re: Olympics -- short track speed skating

Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the traditional stakes for U.S. vs Canada hockey games still applies: y'know, loser gets custody of Bieber for the next year. Nice. I think I know why the US athletes aren't doing well - if they win, they would be invited to the White House. Later