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The Hold statistic is weird

Benjamin Grimm Apr 12 2018 12:55 PM

Last night, Jerry Blevins got one out in the ninth inning with a three-run lead. He got credited with a hold. AJ Ramos then got two outs in the ninth inning with a three-run lead. He does not get credited with a hold. I know the reason: When Blevins came into the game it was a save situation, but when Ramos came in it wasn't. But Ramos, literally, did twice as much as Blevins did, but doesn't get the credit. This leads me to wonder, does anyone care about holds? Does the guy who leads the league in holds even realize it? Have I ever led the league in holds?

Ceetar Apr 12 2018 01:22 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

I mean, I don't care about saves so it'd hard to care about a stat that's basically setting up a save. I don't even care enough to confirm the rule that you don't get a hold if you finish the game. I don't speak for all baseball fans, but I don't think holds are particularly noted by anyone.

MFS62 Apr 12 2018 01:35 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

Ceetar wrote: I don't speak for all baseball fans, but I don't think holds are particularly noted by anyone. Except for middle inning pitchers, set up men, and their agents. Later

Centerfield Apr 12 2018 01:37 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

Did Ramos get the save?

Ceetar Apr 12 2018 01:40 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

MFS62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I don't speak for all baseball fans, but I don't think holds are particularly noted by anyone. Except for middle inning pitchers, set up men, and their agents. Later even they don't care. it doesn't really seem to be something that gets anyone more money, in fact people have complained about that very fact. Though they don't even typically cite holds. Centerfield wrote: Did Ramos get the save? You have to either pitch a full inning or enter the game with the tying run (either on deck or in the hole, i forget which)

Benjamin Grimm Apr 12 2018 01:46 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

You have to either pitch a full inning with a lead of three runs or less, come in with the tying run on deck (or at bat or on the bases) or pitch the final three innings, regardless of the score. So it was a save situation for Blevins, but not for Ramos.

dinosaur jesus Apr 12 2018 01:47 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

Holds are noted if you play if you play fantasy baseball. But otherwise, not much, no. And they don't even count in a lot of fantasy leagues. Yeah, they're a weird statistic. But saves are just as weird, really. And even wins don't make that much sense. I think it's nice to have some kind of stat that marks what middle relievers do, given how many innings they pitch now.

Centerfield Apr 12 2018 02:03 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

Yeah, that is weird. So let's replay that inning. 4-1 Mets. Blevins comes in and gets one out. Ramos comes in and gets one out, but also puts a runner on. Then Familia comes in and gets the final out. Blevins Hold, Ramos Hold, Familia Save?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 12 2018 02:10 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

Yes! If Ramos had been less effective, he would have gotten a hold.

Centerfield Apr 12 2018 03:36 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

From Baseball Reference: A hold is an unofficial statistic that measures the effectiveness of middle relievers. A hold is granted to a relief pitcher who enters a game with his team in the lead in a save situation, and hands over that lead to another reliever without the score having been tied in the interim. A pitcher cannot get credit for a hold in a game in which he is credited with either a win or a save (except in the very exceptional situation where a pitcher moves to another position and later resumes pitching); It is possible for a pitcher to receive a hold and a loss in the same game should he exit with the lead, only to see his bequeathed runners score the tying and go-ahead runs. A pitcher who comes into a game and is eligible for a hold and fails in his mission is charged with a blown save; there is no such thing as a blown hold. As the hold is not an official statistic, there is no consensus whether a pitcher needs to record an out or pitch effectively to get credit for a hold. Some compilers consider that the mere fact of not surrendering the lead is sufficient, while most observers consider that the other two criteria should also apply. The lack of consensus on this issue means that hold totals vary from source to source. I didn't realize it was an unofficial statistic. I would think it should definitely be a criteria that you record an out. Also, if you leave runners on base that eventually score, it's hard to justify a hold. In the most liberal of definitions, a pitcher come conceivably come into a one run game, walk three batters, leave, the next guy gives up a grand slam, and that pitcher is still awarded a hold.

Nymr83 Apr 12 2018 03:43 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

the Save is stupid too. so is the individual pitcher Win.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 12 2018 03:47 PM Re: The Hold statistic is weird

In the April 7 game, Jerry Blevins came in with one out and nobody on in the eighth inning, Mets leading 3-2. He walked Bryce Harper, and then left the game. By the most liberal definition of the rule, he would get a hold. The Baseball Reference box score does not give him a hold. Neither does the one on MLB.com.