Mayday Matt Harvey

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Mayday Matt Harvey

He will flourish and return to the rotation. 2 votes

He will flourish and continue on as an asset in the pen. 4 votes

He will distinguish himself in neither a positive nor negative manner. 7 votes

He will struggle and finish out the year as a Met, if possibly a disabled one. 10 votes

He will struggle and be released. 4 votes

Edgy MD
Apr 24 2018 08:38 PM

How do you see Matt Harvey's tenure in the bullpen breaking?

[fimg=600:1dyjum89]https://elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/harvey-e1524434241200.png[/fimg:1dyjum89]

A Boy Named Seo
Apr 24 2018 09:20 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Sadly don't see him flourishing either way, and I guess I don't see him being an indistinguishable middle reliever guy. I think he'll have moments of goodness in the pen, but is too stubborn and proud and dickish to get through the bad ones. I don't think they'll cut him, though.

Benjamin Grimm
Apr 24 2018 09:25 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I voted "struggle and released". I don't think it will happen immediately, but maybe by late June.

Edgy MD
Apr 24 2018 10:15 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Seven votes and we're all over the board!

[list][*]He will flourish and return to the rotation.
1
14%

[/*:m]
[*]He will flourish and continue on as an asset in the pen.
1
14%

[/*:m]
[*]He will distinguish himself in neither a positive nor negative manner.
2
29%

[/*:m]
[*]He will struggle and finish out the year as a Met, if possibly a disabled one.
1
14%

[/*:m]
[*]He will struggle and be released.
2
29%[/*:m][/list:u]

d'Kong76
Apr 24 2018 10:38 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I took flourish and continue on as pen asset.
Wishful thinking, I really think this story is going to not end well.

dgwphotography
Apr 24 2018 10:43 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

There's an option not listed - He'll return to the rotation out of necessity due to injuries

Centerfield
Apr 24 2018 10:53 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Struggle and finish out the year.

cooby
Apr 24 2018 11:09 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Flourish in the pen. Kinda a present day Tug McGraw, backward

Benjamin Grimm
Apr 24 2018 11:41 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

dgwphotography wrote:
There's an option not listed - He'll return to the rotation out of necessity due to injuries

And that is in fact a quite plausible option.

Nymr83
Apr 24 2018 11:45 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I think he sucks in the pen and goes on the DL with phantom injuries at some point

Edgy MD
Apr 24 2018 11:45 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I imagine there are a dozen other scenarios. Incarceration. Alien abduction. I should have included an "OTHER" option.

On behalf CPF Industries and Qualcomm, I apologize.

Fman99
Apr 25 2018 12:58 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I think he turns into a super bad ass baller in the pen. But I'm the optimistic sort.

Rockin' Doc
Apr 25 2018 02:18 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I think Harvey is too hard headed/proud to use this as a chance to prove himself. I think he will struggle in whatever capacity the Mets choose to utilize him, but he will finish the year as a Met.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 25 2018 03:03 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I think he is reasonably effective in the pen, putting him in position to slide into the 4/5 slot, which opens when Matz hits the DL with a ligament strain suffered from dodging Zach Wheeler's severed-mid-windup arm as it flies into the dugout on July 2.

seawolf17
Apr 25 2018 12:44 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

dgwphotography wrote:
There's an option not listed - He'll return to the rotation out of necessity due to injuries

I think this is the most likely option, honestly, but either way, I don't think his tenure here ends well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded for a low-level prospect this summer.

cooby
Apr 25 2018 12:58 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

How did he do last night? He looks very embarrassed in that picture hiding in his hoodie

Lefty Specialist
Apr 25 2018 01:30 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Struggle and finish out the year. Last night wasn't a good beginning. Nobody would trade for him right now, so they're stuck with him. I would expect a spot in the rotation would open up at some point due to the inevitable injuries, but I don't think it'll change his trajectory.

batmagadanleadoff
Apr 25 2018 01:52 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Harvey's as likely to get injured as one of the starters, especially with his injury history.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 25 2018 01:56 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

cooby wrote:
How did he do last night? He looks very embarrassed in that picture hiding in his hoodie

He did okay. Two bad pitches, mistakes left middle-low in the zone, were hammered for back-to-back doubles. Otherwise, the velocity was up, and the control was solid.

If he can hit his spots a LITTLE better-- or at least focus on missing his spots in more harmless ways-- he'll be a success, and several steps toward successful reinvention.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 02:34 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I agree he looked a little better.

Don't want to make too much of cahnfidence, but shit, if he can lose that sulky act and get his focus back, he can get by on spotting his pitches.

He's gonna get dinged from time to time, whereas early in his career, he almost never gave up homers. If he can channel Bartolo and detach himself from that, he can be alright.

Centerfield
Apr 25 2018 02:41 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
I agree he looked a little better.

Don't want to make too much of cahnfidence, but shit, if he can lose that sulky act and get his focus back, he can get by on spotting his pitches.

He's gonna get dinged from time to time, whereas early in his career, he almost never gave up homers. If he can channel Bartolo and detach himself from that, he can be alright.

That's it exactly. Heck, forget Bartolo. If he can channel Paul Sewald he'd be ok. Look at how Paul hits his spots and gets movement on his pitches. Even with a 90-91 mph fastball.

I think I read that Clayton Kershaw averages 93 for his fastball. That guy seems to be doing ok.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 02:41 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

of course, he's never spotted his pitches. Can he learn? I hope so. But it might just be one of those elite skills that he just doesn't have.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 03:00 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

In 2013 and 2015, his command was dazzling.

Centerfield
Apr 25 2018 03:08 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
In 2013 and 2015, his command was dazzling.

Yes. Exactly. So stop trying to hit 98 and start trying to hit your spots.

And if you don't have the arm to throw 98 anymore, I imagine if you try to hit it you do so at the cost of location.

I mean, I imagine if I tried to throw [crossout]98[/crossout] 78, I would have no idea where it was going.

batmagadanleadoff
Apr 25 2018 03:10 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Yeah. A coupl'a things: Harvey's control was once impeccable. He could nick the edge of a dime with 100 MPH stuff. So of course he's used to spotting pitches. Whether he still can is another story.

Also, obviously a pitcher can excel, perhaps even dominate in the majors with a 92, 93 MPH fastball, which is what Harvey's got right now. But he's gonna need outstanding secondary stuff to do that because otherwise, batters will just sit on his low 90s stuff which, on its own, ain't gonna overpower anyone.

Right now, Harvey's really struggling with his changeup. It's not fooling anybody. Either he's tipping it or it isn't working against an offset fastball in the low 90s. There's a fix, of course, but it's a lot easier said than done. Most every pro pitcher can throw 92, 93. Most of those pitchers don't ever get out of the minors.

Lefty Specialist
Apr 25 2018 03:13 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Needed another option:

"Drinks his way out of baseball and finds out he owns a bar in Boston. Has an on-again, off-again relationship with Shelley Long."

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 03:16 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Yeah. A coupl'a things: Harvey's control was once impeccable. He could nick the edge of a dime with 100 MPH stuff. So of course he's used to spotting pitches. Whether he still can is another story.

citation needed.

Benjamin Grimm
Apr 25 2018 03:17 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 03:29 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

In 2013, Matt Harvey walked 1.6 per nine innings, when the league averaged 3.0. That was good for 5th place among ERA title qualifiers.

In 2015, Matt Harvey walked 1.8 per nine innings, when the league averaged 2.9. That was good for 7th place among ERA title qualifiers.

[fimg=600:3kpqzvze]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Chevrolet_Citation_II_front.jpg/1200px-Chevrolet_Citation_II_front.jpg[/fimg:3kpqzvze]

Centerfield
Apr 25 2018 03:47 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 25 2018 03:50 PM

To clarify, I'm not implying that the ability to hit spots or to get movement on pitches is by any means easy, but we are talking about Matt Harvey, who once demonstrated the ability to do both.

So if the surgeries have robbed him of 98 MPH, I would want him to focus on control and movement, since he can still be awesome without the 98. I don't know for sure that he's not doing this, but all the talk has been that he's concerned with getting back arm strength and hasn't really bought into "learning to pitch".

If he already is focusing on control and movement and this is the best he can do, well then I guess he's fucked.

d'Kong76
Apr 25 2018 03:50 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

God the Citation was one embarrassingly ugly vehicle.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 03:57 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
In 2013, Matt Harvey walked 1.6 per nine innings, when the league averaged 3.0. That was good for 5th place among ERA title qualifiers.

In 2015, Matt Harvey walked 1.8 per nine innings, when the league averaged 2.9. That was good for 7th place among ERA title qualifiers.

Big deal. That doesn't mean the pitches hit the spot. He was striking guys out then ,getting ahead in counts, throwing strikes.

those same strikes get smacked now. Even the ones out of the zone. His pitches, slower, get hit. He wasn't getting guys out by nipping corners, he was blowing them away.

Centerfield wrote:

If he already is focusing on control and movement and this is the best he can do, well then I guess he's fucked.

the movement honestly isn't much different. It doesn't really seem like he's throwing the ball any differently, to any different spots. Batters just are swinging less, and making much better contact when they do.

theoretically he COULD learned something about placement and mixing up pitches, hell Darling has even questioned choices on the air, but he hasn't actually shown any ability to do it. Bartolo changes speed with his fastball and can mix up his spots. Harvey has little deception, he throws the slider to one spot, the fastball to another spot, and relies on classic change of speed stuff that happens in your brain to get him by, with plus-plus velocity. the velocity is gone and batters are simply waiting until they guess right from a limited subset, and crushing it.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 03:58 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
In 2013, Matt Harvey walked 1.6 per nine innings, when the league averaged 3.0. That was good for 5th place among ERA title qualifiers.

In 2015, Matt Harvey walked 1.8 per nine innings, when the league averaged 2.9. That was good for 7th place among ERA title qualifiers.

Big deal.

Please don't ask for any more facts.

41Forever
Apr 25 2018 05:38 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
In 2013, Matt Harvey walked 1.6 per nine innings, when the league averaged 3.0. That was good for 5th place among ERA title qualifiers.

In 2015, Matt Harvey walked 1.8 per nine innings, when the league averaged 2.9. That was good for 7th place among ERA title qualifiers.

Big deal. That doesn't mean the pitches hit the spot. He was striking guys out then ,getting ahead in counts, throwing strikes.

those same strikes get smacked now. Even the ones out of the zone. His pitches, slower, get hit. He wasn't getting guys out by nipping corners, he was blowing them away.

Wouldn't low walk rates be an indicator of hitting his spots?

Sometimes it seems like you decide a guy is a bum -- Bruce, Harvey -- then play Twister with logic to justify a position that others have proven inaccurate. If you just don't like a guy, there's nothing wrong with just saying it.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 05:49 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
In 2013, Matt Harvey walked 1.6 per nine innings, when the league averaged 3.0. That was good for 5th place among ERA title qualifiers.

In 2015, Matt Harvey walked 1.8 per nine innings, when the league averaged 2.9. That was good for 7th place among ERA title qualifiers.

Big deal.

Please don't ask for any more facts.

please stop providing ones that don't answer the question.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 06:00 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Really?

What would satisfy you?

Nymr83
Apr 25 2018 06:27 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
Really?

What would satisfy you?

Video analysis of every pitch showing where the catcher set up and the distance his glove moved to actually catch the pitch. Nothing else will prove where he intended the pitches to end up vs where they did.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 06:40 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

That's a beefy burden of proof. A lot of pitches!

Maybe I should talk about Qualcomm.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 06:46 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

you don't need his intention, you can just look at scatter plots, movement, etc. It's all in the graphs and the data. There doesn't seem to be any indication he's throwing to different spots, or being more erratic, than in 2013 or 2015. I'm far from an expert though, so if you're seeing something i'm not, that's what I'm asking for. The best I could find was maybe he's leaving his changeup up in the zone more.

Show me where he's missing spots he's was hitting in 2015. Show me something that suggests it wasn't just the velocity.

Centerfield
Apr 25 2018 07:12 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
you don't need his intention, you can just look at scatter plots, movement, etc. It's all in the graphs and the data. There doesn't seem to be any indication he's throwing to different spots, or being more erratic, than in 2013 or 2015. I'm far from an expert though, so if you're seeing something i'm not, that's what I'm asking for. The best I could find was maybe he's leaving his changeup up in the zone more.

Show me where he's missing spots he's was hitting in 2015. Show me something that suggests it wasn't just the velocity.

This is such a maddening method of argument. You come in with the statement that Matt Harvey never spotted his pitches. Arguably the best pitcher on the planet in 2013, and still elite in 2015 never spotted his pitches.

Then you demand to be proven wrong.

This is not how argument works. This is not how burden of proof works.

I'll demonstrate.

of course, ceetar has never been toilet trained. Can he learn? I hope so. But it might just be one of those skills that he just doesn't have.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 07:15 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Qualcomm has been called dreamers, inventors, rebels, risk takers, pioneers and geeks. They embrace those labels because, in many ways, they’re true. They dream big. They invent bigger. And most importantly, they often do what many thought was impossible.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 07:22 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I've repeatedly cited stats, throughout this thread and others, this year and last, where he has in fact NOT been doing things differently than in 2013 or 2015.

So yes, if you're going to just come out and contradict me, you need to cite _something_ meaningful to support it. Walk rate is not that. And so far is BB% this year is right up there with 2013 and 2015.

Everything point to batters making more and harder contact. And it's not because he's not hitting his spots

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 07:26 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Walk rates are meaningless. Got it.

A Boy Named Seo
Apr 25 2018 07:28 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Harvey 2015 v. 2018.

EDIT: I agree disappearing velocity surely plays a part in his diminished effectiveness. BUT, it also looks like he's not hitting his spots as often in 2018.

2015:
[attachment=1:2gd2iaqh]harvey-2015.png[/attachment:2gd2iaqh]

2018:
[attachment=0:2gd2iaqh]harvey-2018.png[/attachment:2gd2iaqh]

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 07:31 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
Walk rates are meaningless. Got it.

no, clearly not.

also his walk rate is the same as 2015 so I'm not sure how that means he's not hitting his spots this year?

You're asserting he's throwing strikes. that's different than hitting his spots. I could probably throw strikes. They'd get clobbered even more than Harvey's.

Harvey's release points are also slightly different. There's really no evidence I can find that he's ever been 'crafty'. Is it something he can learn? I don't know.

Like, look at this ridiculousness. Look how similar these two pitches are until the last freaking second. Harvey does not do this.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/989129086432931840[/tweet]

Nymr83
Apr 25 2018 07:34 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

A Boy Named Seo wrote:
Harvey 2015 v. 2018.

EDIT: I agree disappearing velocity surely plays a part in his diminished effectiveness. BUT, it also looks like he's not hitting his spots as often in 2018.

That is one interpretation. Another would be that, as a result of decreased velocity, the spot he is trying to hit is no longer the same. You can pitch effectively much closer to the middle of the plate at 98 than you can at 92.

Hard to prove if he is "missing" his spot or not.

Edgy MD
Apr 25 2018 07:37 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
also his walk rate is the same as 2015 so I'm not sure how that means he's not hitting his spots this year?

Am I supposed to answer, only to be told again that walk rates are meaningless?

Because they're meaningful to me.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 07:47 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

A Boy Named Seo wrote:
Harvey 2015 v. 2018.

EDIT: I agree disappearing velocity surely plays a part in his diminished effectiveness. BUT, it also looks like he's not hitting his spots as often in 2018.

2015:
[attachment=1]harvey-2015.png[/attachment]

2018:
[attachment=0]harvey-2018.png[/attachment]

At first glance you'd kinda like the 2018 heat map right? seems like he's painting corners a little more?

seawolf17
Apr 25 2018 07:49 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
At first glance you'd kinda like the 2018 heat map right? seems like he's painting corners a little more?

I read that as "he's throwing every pitch in the same spot now" vs "he used to use the whole zone."

A Boy Named Seo
Apr 25 2018 08:14 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
Harvey 2015 v. 2018.

EDIT: I agree disappearing velocity surely plays a part in his diminished effectiveness. BUT, it also looks like he's not hitting his spots as often in 2018.

2015:
[attachment=1]harvey-2015.png[/attachment]

2018:
[attachment=0]harvey-2018.png[/attachment]

At first glance you'd kinda like the 2018 heat map right? seems like he's painting corners a little more?

No, not really. 2015 Harvey seems to work both sides of the plate, and the top and the bottom, working the edges while staying in the strike zone.

2018 Harvey looks like he's missing more in to the lefty side of the plate and isn't seeming to work the high strike or the right hand side of the plate much at all. Maybe to NYMR's point, he's trying to be out of the strike zone to avoid contact. I don't know. If "his spot" in 2k18 is more low toward the lefty side of the plate, then yah, his command is great.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 08:18 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

helps to break it out by pitch maybe. Though the slider doesn't look hugely different.

[attachment=0:2zedy5bp]download (2).png[/attachment:2zedy5bp]

[attachment=1:2zedy5bp]download (1).png[/attachment:2zedy5bp]

[attachment=2:2zedy5bp]download.png[/attachment:2zedy5bp]

Benjamin Grimm
Apr 25 2018 08:18 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I'm not sure what those graphics represent. It shows where the ball goes, right, but doesn't factor where the catcher set his glove?

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 08:19 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

[attachment=0:36aor477]download (3).png[/attachment:36aor477]

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 08:25 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Definitely seems like he was too far off with it last year, and that tracks, with the walks, but otherwise this year doesn't seem that bad? a smidge high?

[attachment=0:3od76hoi]download (4).png[/attachment:3od76hoi]

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 25 2018 08:45 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Oh yeah that red smear tells you all you need to know.

Sheesh

bmfc1
Apr 25 2018 09:35 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

This isn't good:
[tweet:3l48uqnn]https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/989253496858927110[/tweet:3l48uqnn]

A Boy Named Seo
Apr 25 2018 09:37 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Matt Harvey is a turd. We can Shirley all agree on this.

Nymr83
Apr 25 2018 10:03 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

He is certainly an ass. The question is can he help the team anyway

bmfc1
Apr 25 2018 10:07 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I don't know if there are any contractual restrictions on sending Harvey to the minors but when Vargas returns on Saturday, perhaps Harvey, and not Oswalt, should go to Vegas ("you want to be a starter, then you can start in AAA and we'll call you up when we think you're ready to pitch and act like a major leaguer").

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 25 2018 10:18 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

The question is, how long has he been an ass? The answer seems to be we knew before he ever made his first start.

[url]http://archives.thecranepool.net/18200/f1_t18261.shtml

Here's the earliest I could find of my referring to Harvey as a douchebag:

[url]http://archives.thecranepool.net/19400/f1_t19477.shtml

"I decided it was time to give Cole Hamels a run for his money in the douchebag department," Harvey remarked.

It was earlier than that, tho. It had to do with the Escalade he drove to spring training in 2013 and how much Francessa admired him. Just a bad sign.

d'Kong76
Apr 25 2018 10:21 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

He was asked why not. "I dont [expletive] want to," Harvey replied.

Oh boy, this tactic always works well with the NY press lol.

41Forever
Apr 25 2018 10:43 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

d'Kong76 wrote:
He was asked why not. "I dont [expletive] want to," Harvey replied.

Oh boy, this tactic always works well with the NY press lol.

Answers like that are the reason Communiations directors buy Tums at Costco.

G-Fafif
Apr 25 2018 10:48 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

"I felt all right. A little different, obviously. We'll see. I just wanna pitch and help us win. Thanks guys."

That's all he has to say. "Harvey spoke briefly" comes off much better than "Harvey told us to go fuck ourselves."

Honestly, I'm not all that interested in his thoughts on relief pitching. And those asking him aren't all that interested. It's all a bit of kabuki, owing to the man bites dog aspect of him as a reliever, but just be a person and move on.

Ceetar
Apr 25 2018 11:28 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

The flip side of this is Harvey is well within his rights to not talk to the media if he doesn't want to and if the worst you get is a curse after you've literally asked him a half dozen times for a quote and ignored his request not to talk about it, well, big fucking deal. I mean, is it really that wrong for him to want to process the transition on his own without having to define it to reporters first?

But you guys know I have little tolerance for the media game. Harvey's a douche, but we've known that. This changes nothing, means nothing, and is just filler content anyway. Sure, he could be nicer to the media. he could be a 'better person' or whatever, but his interactions with the media is literally 0% of what i need or want from him.

Doubly so for the media countering with "oh, let's bug Nido about Harvey's appearance and then blame Harvey for us bugging Nido about Harvey". fuck off, that's making the news not reporting the news.

Fman99
Apr 26 2018 12:51 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Here's the earliest I could find of my referring to Harvey as a douchebag:

[url]http://archives.thecranepool.net/19400/f1_t19477.shtml

I'm just happy I got to relive a joke I made about a robot having sex with a lady.

41Forever
Apr 26 2018 01:25 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
The flip side of this is Harvey is well within his rights to not talk to the media if he doesn't want to and if the worst you get is a curse after you've literally asked him a half dozen times for a quote and ignored his request not to talk about it, well, big fucking deal. I mean, is it really that wrong for him to want to process the transition on his own without having to define it to reporters first?

But you guys know I have little tolerance for the media game. Harvey's a douche, but we've known that. This changes nothing, means nothing, and is just filler content anyway. Sure, he could be nicer to the media. he could be a 'better person' or whatever, but his interactions with the media is literally 0% of what i need or want from him.

Doubly so for the media countering with "oh, let's bug Nido about Harvey's appearance and then blame Harvey for us bugging Nido about Harvey". fuck off, that's making the news not reporting the news.

I'm going to disagree a little. Scott Boras must be banging his head against a wall as Harvey continues to hurt his value for next season.

Is Harvey within his rights to not speak to the media? Sure. But he has professional obligation to do so. But he also went beyond that, and it's neither smart nor professional.

Speaking with the media is part of the job when you play in a big market, especially New York. If he embraced them when he was the Dark Knight and things were going great, then he needs to at least answer some questions when things are not going great. That's what stand-up people do.

Given that there was a 100 percent chance he was going to be approached after his first relief appearance, Boras or the Mets should have coached him on how to answer the question. It doesn't have to be a great answer, but it has to be an answer. The one G-FAFIF suggested works fine. Repeat it, over and over. It's inconceivable that this did not happen -- but very possible that they did, and he ignored the advice.

Cussing out reporters takes away from the team's win and Bruce's big night. That's being a bad teammate.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 26 2018 01:38 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
The flip side of this is Harvey is well within his rights to not talk to the media if he doesn't want to and if the worst you get is a curse after you've literally asked him a half dozen times for a quote and ignored his request not to talk about it, well, big fucking deal. I mean, is it really that wrong for him to want to process the transition on his own without having to define it to reporters first?

But you guys know I have little tolerance for the media game. Harvey's a douche, but we've known that. This changes nothing, means nothing, and is just filler content anyway. Sure, he could be nicer to the media. he could be a 'better person' or whatever, but his interactions with the media is literally 0% of what i need or want from him.

Doubly so for the media countering with "oh, let's bug Nido about Harvey's appearance and then blame Harvey for us bugging Nido about Harvey". fuck off, that's making the news not reporting the news.

Point taken, but my primary takeaway from this is, even as an adult who's attended his share of rodeo, Harvey lacked the self-awareness to mutter some platitudes. It behooved him to say something, even if something brief and meaningless. That he couldn't get out of his own way to do may not mean anything... but it sure doesn't mean something good.

Fman99
Apr 26 2018 02:11 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Where I'm from we call it "being a pissy pants."

G-Fafif
Apr 26 2018 03:15 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I certainly hope Matz handles his inevitable demotion more professionally.

Nymr83
Apr 26 2018 03:39 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Maybe they try Matz as the lefty lacking in the bullpen?

Centerfield
Apr 26 2018 03:43 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Matt Harvey is a dickhead. JCL was right from the beginning. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could, but seriously, fuck that guy.

It won’t happen but I would be fine with releasing him now.

Edgy MD
Apr 26 2018 02:01 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Here's the earliest I could find of my referring to Harvey as a douchebag:

[url]http://archives.thecranepool.net/19400/f1_t19477.shtml

You had him pegged earlier, when he showed up to his first camp in a Douchescalade.

Here's the happiest I've ever seen this guy:

[fimg=600]https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/-McJIOCe2wnJy7N8jHEPqCfvvtA=/0x166:681x620/1400x1050/filters:focal(0x166:681x620):format(png)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/31993377/harvey_middle_finger.0.png[/fimg]

Benjamin Grimm
Apr 26 2018 02:06 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

A CLUE! I wonder what Blue wants to do with a hospital gown? I'd better go get my handy-dandy notebook!

(I think this is how I responded the last time this photo was posted.)

41Forever
Apr 26 2018 03:05 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
A CLUE! I wonder what Blue wants to do with a hospital gown? I'd better go get my handy-dandy notebook!

(I think this is how I responded the last time this photo was posted.)

Bad ass!

Benjamin Grimm
May 04 2018 02:24 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I was one of only two voters for "struggle and be released" and nothing since has changed my mind at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened within a week.

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 02:55 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Seems like, if this bullpenny thing is to continue, they should be looking at shorter stints.

Nymr83
May 04 2018 03:53 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I was one of only two voters for "struggle and be released" and nothing since has changed my mind at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened within a week.

what is his option situation? he can't be sent down involuntarily can he?

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 04:10 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

No, he can refuse an assignment.

If I was to go down, I'd insist on going to Binghamton instead of Las Vegas.

Nymr83
May 04 2018 04:12 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

because of the hitting environment in Vegas or because its Vegas?

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 04:13 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

If I was Harvey, I'd want to stay out of the hitting environment of Vegas.

But yeah, if I was the Mets, I might want to keep him out of the Vegas environment of Vegas.

41Forever
May 04 2018 10:12 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
No, he can refuse an assignment.

If I was to go down, I'd insist on going to Binghamton instead of Las Vegas.

Better that he hang out with a positive influence like Tebow in Bingo than the temptations of Vegas.

MFS62
May 04 2018 11:42 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 04 2018 01:04 PM

Dave Eiland, the "Pitching whisperer" should be screaming right about now.
Later

batmagadanleadoff
May 04 2018 12:01 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

If it's Binghamton, Harvey and Tebow will probably go around singing Christmas carols door to door in their spare time and baking muffins for the local church. Yeah sure. Whats likelier to happen is that Tebow will end up mainlining heroin directly into his eyeballs.

The only reason Harvey's probably still a Met is because eff Wilpon is a cheap stupid fuck who doesn't get sunk costs. No team is gonna pick up Harvey's salary so if the Mets have to pay it, they're gonna get their money's worth. In the era of four and five man benches, that they're using up a 25 man roster spot on a mop up man should be a scandal.

Benjamin Grimm
May 04 2018 12:28 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

John Harper is calling for Harvey's release in the Daily News today. He says that the Mets' reluctance to release Harvey is out of fear that the Yankees will pick him up and he'll be a star pitcher for them.

I don't think that's the reason at all. I agree that it's about the remaining millions of dollars on Harvey's salary. If they had asked for and heeded my advice, they would have non-tendered Harvey last winter.

MFS62
May 04 2018 01:05 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
He says that the Mets' reluctance to release Harvey is out of fear that the Yankees will pick him up and he'll be a star pitcher for them.

Of course he would. They can score 15 runs a game to compensate for his suckitude.

Later

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 01:06 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

It doesn't really cost them anything to release him.

You try to make things work until you don't.

metirish
May 04 2018 01:32 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

To me he is done, I voted for released....not that I think it will happen but , can see him journeying around with the likes of Tamps Bay etc

MFS62
May 04 2018 01:50 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

metirish wrote:
To me he is done, I voted for released....not that I think it will happen but , can see him journeying around with the likes of Tamps Bay etc

Don't forget Minnesota.
Even Mike Pelfrey lasted three seasons with them.

Later

d'Kong76
May 04 2018 01:56 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
John Harper is calling for Harvey's release in the Daily News today. He says that the Mets' reluctance to release Harvey is out of fear that the Yankees will pick him up and he'll be a star pitcher for them.

That's some coffee-spitting classic YLD tabloid fodder right there.

Nymr83
May 04 2018 02:25 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

41Forever wrote:
No, he can refuse an assignment.

If I was to go down, I'd insist on going to Binghamton instead of Las Vegas.

Better that he hang out with a positive influence like Tebow in Bingo than the temptations of Vegas.

I love the trolling, Tebow homered recently, it was on ESPN!

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23398264

seawolf17
May 04 2018 04:33 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
If it's Binghamton, Harvey and Tebow will probably go around singing Christmas carols door to door in their spare time and baking muffins for the local church. Yeah sure. Whats likelier to happen is that Tebow will end up mainlining heroin directly into his eyeballs.

They should not only send him to Binghamton, but make him and Tebow share an apartment and livestream the whole damn time.

41Forever
May 04 2018 05:25 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

seawolf17 wrote:

They should not only send him to Binghamton, but make him and Tebow share an apartment and livestream the whole damn time.

It would be a perfect opportunity for Harvey to learn some humility, embrace some service, and recognize that God-given gifts should be appreciated and not squandered.

If neither of them perform well on the field, Tebow still walks off to cheers. Matt's heard the alternative. He could learn a thing or two.

d'Kong76
May 04 2018 05:43 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

With all due respect, this apple-pie-in-the-attgig stuff has nothing to do with Harvey
nor will it ever have anything to do with Harvey. Harvey will get Tebow a couple of
hookers before they kneel down and pray together. Pass the bong!

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 05:56 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Getting back to the point above ... maybe one effect of the thoracic outlet surgery is a lack of stamina.

In his last outing, Harvey got his first four batters before blowing up. The turn before that, he faced four batters, and got three of them with the fourth reaching on a double.

While they are stretching their other relievers, maybe they need to compress him until he builds up a pattern of success.

Benjamin Grimm
May 04 2018 06:23 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I don't agree with the notion that spending time with Tim Tebow will necessarily make someone more Tim Tebow-like. I doubt that it would have that kind of impact on me, although I like the imagery of Matt Harvey and Tim Tebow praying with hookers.

And I also don't think it's fair to say that Matt Harvey is "squandering his God-given talents." This isn't a Doc Gooden thing here. Harvey's talents appear to be gone, through no fault of his own. He may not be handling his current situation like a big boy, but that's a different story.

metirish
May 04 2018 06:36 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I for one could not give a fiddler's fuck if Harvey were released and picked up by the MFY, he would end up getting cut there too.

Benjamin Grimm
May 04 2018 06:47 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

And I couldn't give an oboist's fuck!

G-Fafif
May 04 2018 07:09 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

The whole band is apathetic.

cooby
May 04 2018 07:25 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

What on earth makes anybody think Harvey and Tebow would hang out together? In the first place, Harvey seems to be a loner.

BTW, what is attgig?

d'Kong76
May 04 2018 07:32 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

cooby wrote:
BTW, what is attgig?

all the time god is good... it was a thing, not sure what it's all about or if it's still a thing.

Look, I apologize to those who find me popping off about Tebow offensive or wrong, but I just
don't get it. The god-given gifts thing set me off and I should show better restraint some times.

cooby
May 04 2018 07:35 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Oh! Didn't we used to have a poster by that name? I always thought it was initials, and a lot of them.

A Boy Named Seo
May 04 2018 07:40 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

cooby wrote:
Oh! Didn't we used to have a poster by that name? I always thought it was initials, and a lot of them.

There was. I had no idea what it meant.

For the records, I agree that Tebow and Harvey should be forced to hang out together, room together, etc. I'll see Seawolf's live stream and raise him a reality show.

41Forever
May 04 2018 07:42 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

d'Kong76 wrote:
cooby wrote:
BTW, what is attgig?

all the time god is good... it was a thing, not sure what it's all about or if it's still a thing.

Look, I apologize to those who find me popping off about Tebow offensive or wrong, but I just
don't get it. The god-given gifts thing set me off and I should show better restraint some times.

I had no idea what the initials meant!

My point there was that if he is out there partying as much as we joke that he is, then he’s not preparing himself the way he should and not putting him in the best position to be successful.

Edgy MD
May 04 2018 07:51 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Painting the town red with Adriana Lima and Anne V is one thing, but raising the roof with Tracy Morgan and Phil Collins is just a bridge too far from where I sit.

A lot of Mets fans are children for Pete's sake.

A Boy Named Seo
May 04 2018 08:08 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Harvey DFA'd! That was quick!

[tweet:39kxv6y1]https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/992494657610371072[/tweet:39kxv6y1]

cooby
May 04 2018 08:10 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Anne the Fifth? Is that like Sophia the First?

And holy smokes!!! About the DFA!

Nymr83
May 04 2018 08:47 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

seawolf17 wrote:
If it's Binghamton, Harvey and Tebow will probably go around singing Christmas carols door to door in their spare time and baking muffins for the local church. Yeah sure. Whats likelier to happen is that Tebow will end up mainlining heroin directly into his eyeballs.

They should not only send him to Binghamton, but make him and Tebow share an apartment and livestream the whole damn time.

The live stream would have been amazing.

[Tim walks in there door]

Tim: Hi Matt, who are you friends?

Matt: I dont know

Tim: you dont know their names?

Matt: they're hookers, Tim

Tim: ...

Matt: try one!

Tim: ...

Matt: Oh come on Tim, even the president has one.

Rockin' Doc
May 05 2018 12:16 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I'm surprised the Mets are cutting him loose, due to the finances, but he needed to go. Not sure he could become an effective pitcher again, but his unwillingness to do whatever is necessary to improve made it inevitable. It seems that his pride and ego won't allow him to confront the problems and work to overcome them, so good riddance.

Centerfield
May 05 2018 04:36 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

It occurs to me that Matt Harvey may be the first True Yankee before ever playing for the Yankees.

SteveJRogers
May 05 2018 04:38 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Centerfield wrote:
It occurs to me that Matt Harvey may be the first True Yankee before ever playing for the Yankees.

LOL! Actually Rich Gossage and Babe Ruth himself come to mind! ;)

TransMonk
May 05 2018 08:37 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Centerfield wrote:
It occurs to me that Matt Harvey may be the first True Yankee before ever playing for the Yankees.

When talking about him to non-Mets fans I know, I've been calling him "Future Yankee Matt Harvey" since 2015.

MFS62
May 05 2018 09:38 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

TransMonk wrote:
Centerfield wrote:
It occurs to me that Matt Harvey may be the first True Yankee before ever playing for the Yankees.

When talking about him to non-Mets fans I know, I've been calling him "Future Yankee Matt Harvey" since 2015.

Oh my GAWWD, Jonn. Matt Harvey is in the Owner's box.

Later

Frayed Knot
May 09 2018 09:37 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Here is a line that NO ONE would have bet on three years ago?

Below are stats for 2016-2018 for two well known NYC pitchers.
Though Matt Harvey was coming off of TJS two years earlier, his 2015 season had gone well so there was no reason to believe that his subsequent age 27-29 seasons wouldn't go well too.
Sabathia meanwhile had been going downhill for several years already [2013-2015 = 4.35, 1.32] and was getting fatter & drunker as he was heading into [u:1e02a1go]his age 35-37 seasons[/u:1e02a1go] (and almost his 36-38 years seeing as how he has a July birthday).

But then this happened --

[table:1e02a1go][tr:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]——[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]Starts[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]W/L[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]ERA[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]WHIP[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]H/9[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]HR/9[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]BB/9[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]K/9[/td:1e02a1go][/tr:1e02a1go][tr:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]HARVEY[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]39[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]9-19[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]5.93[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]1.58[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]10.8[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]1.5[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]3.4[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]6.9[/td:1e02a1go][/tr:1e02a1go][tr:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]SABATHIA[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]63[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]25-17[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]3.59[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]1.26[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]8.3[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]1.1[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]3.0[/td:1e02a1go][td:1e02a1go]7.4[/td:1e02a1go][/tr:1e02a1go][/table:1e02a1go]
-- and it's hard to tell which outcome was less predictable.

Centerfield
May 09 2018 09:40 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Especially when you consider Sabathia was more or less a contemporary of Johan Santana.

During his time with the MFY's, the Mets have had 2 ace pitchers blow up on them.

Say what you want about the Wilpons, and payroll, and Mickey and Sandy, but we have had some real shit luck in the past decade.

d'Kong76
May 12 2018 02:01 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Matt Harvey impressed in his Reds debut, pitching four scoreless innings against the Dodgers.
Harvey, who was on a pitch count since he's being transitioned back to the rotation, allowed just one hit, walked none and struck out two while throwing 55 pitches. He was the Reds pitcher deserving of the win tonight -- and he left with a 5-0 lead, but since MLB won't update an archaic rule, the victory was credited to Austin Brice, who allowed one run in 1 2/3 innings in relief. May 12 - 2:04 AM - RotoWorld

Ceetar
May 12 2018 11:41 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Matt Harvey impressed in his Reds debut, pitching four scoreless innings against the Dodgers.
Harvey, who was on a pitch count since he's being transitioned back to the rotation, allowed just one hit, walked none and struck out two while throwing 55 pitches. He was the Reds pitcher deserving of the win tonight -- and he left with a 5-0 lead, but since MLB won't update an archaic rule, the victory was credited to Austin Brice, who allowed one run in 1 2/3 innings in relief. May 12 - 2:04 AM - RotoWorld

he impressed? he was exactly the same guy that got DFA, the Reds just suck.

d'Kong76
May 12 2018 11:58 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Tell RotoWorld

Frayed Knot
May 13 2018 12:08 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Ceetar wrote:
he impressed? he was exactly the same guy that got DFA, the Reds just suck.

1 baserunner across 4 innings with no HRs on a below average number of pitches ... that's the exact guy who got DFA'd?

Not that I'm going to treat this one shortened outing as a sign of his long-awaited turn-around, but the guy who was just DFA'd averaged more than 3 runs allowed and nearly 7 baserunners per every four
innings pitched over the last season-plus.

Methead
May 13 2018 12:13 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I wasn't paying super close attention... but to me, it looked pretty much like the same guy we got rid of. Missing on both sides of the plate and not a ton of life on his pitches. I don't know how badly LA is struggling at the moment but they weren't being very selective. Time will tell.

Edgy MD
May 13 2018 02:45 AM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Sure, hard to read anything conclusive, but ceetar seems to be writing above as if he was pitching against the Reds, not for them.

Centerfield
May 13 2018 11:10 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

I still think Matt Harvey will be productive one day. He needs to buy in and learn to pitch with what he has, which is still good enough.

It pisses me off that he did well in his first start, and I know that it can certainly be said that the Mets gave up on him too early.

But from what I’ve read about him, it sounds like it was just never going to happen for him here.

Good riddance dickhead. I hope you find yourself, catch on someplace, then have a 17.68 ERA against the Mets for the rest of your career.

Ceetar
May 14 2018 01:26 PM
Re: Mayday Matt Harvey

Edgy MD wrote:
Sure, hard to read anything conclusive, but ceetar seems to be writing above as if he was pitching against the Reds, not for them.

I mixed up my points in an effort not to spend too many bytes on pitchers and teams that I don't really care about.

I just he's still useful for the Reds because the Reds are bad and can't pitch and need any glimmer they can find.