Master Index of Archived Threads
Bad Parenting
Centerfield May 10 2018 03:35 PM |
Last night, during his baseball practice, I heard my son get it from his teammates about the Mets losing and batting out of order. There is one other Mets fan on the team, the rest root for the Yankees. As we were leaving the cage, all of them stopped to watch the exciting (and very relevant) Yankees-Red Sox game. My son glanced at the TV, then walked out. That game doesn't concern him, and he clearly doesn't want to stick around to get the ribbing they'll throw at him. It's good natured, but even at 12 years old, I can see it starting to get old. This morning, I watched him put on his Mets hat again and walk out the door. I'm sure he'll hear it again today about the high-flying Yankees, his friends will rightfully tell him that the Mets will be irrelevant again before the end of May.
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Benjamin Grimm May 10 2018 03:38 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Your son makes his own decisions. As you said, there are other Mets fan parents whose kids have decided to root for the Yankees. Yours didn't. Maybe he's rightfully put off by the smug attitude of their fans and decided he doesn't want to be one of them.
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cooby May 10 2018 03:39 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
CF where were you again? A TV at practice.
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Centerfield May 10 2018 03:44 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Oh, his team had a session at the batting cage. Indoor place on 74th street. They have TVs in the hallway and lobby.
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Ceetar May 10 2018 03:50 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Just make sure you he's not being a jerk about in in August when the Yankees are 3 games out of a wild card and the Mets just crushed the Nationals to take a 4 game lead in the division, what goes around comes around.
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cooby May 10 2018 03:51 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Lol okay. I thought you had a heck of a swanky ballpark!
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A Boy Named Seo May 10 2018 03:57 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Like G said in the 67 v. 87 yearbook matchup, it's easy to get excited about a championship team. We all wish the Mets were great at baseball and won all the time, but the pain of failure grows us as humans and makes us genuinely appreciate the things in our lives that will make us pause and remember them before we die. This includes the sweet windows of time that cracked open for the briefest moments to let us experience this weirdly powerful and irrational joy that sprung from watching a baseball team beat all the other baseball teams one year. Your kid will remember that stuff one day. I'm sure some of these Yankee kids are fine children who get good grades, don't litter, and are generally nice to their parents. But they won't have the strength of character your kid will have from growing up loving the shitty New York Mets.
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d'Kong76 May 10 2018 04:04 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I got an irreversible DNA implant in the early 70's. In another year or two, when you think your son is ready, you can teach him about YLD's and he'll see the light! hahahaha
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Centerfield May 10 2018 04:04 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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For most things yes. But I don't know that I ever gave him the chance on this one. Most of the Met parent fans whose kids root for other teams are not nearly as active as me. SC was dressed in Mets clothes as a baby, he got a teddy bear named Mookie. We watch or listen to at least a 100 games per year and go to Citi at least 3-4 times each season. My brother is a big fan and they text each other about it. I don't know if he ever had a real choice here. I am seriously considering sitting him down and telling him that everything I told him about the nobility of rooting for this team was wrong. He should root for whoever he wants. I mean, I'm guessing it's way too late now. But I feel like I should at least say something.
I would love for this to be true. And this is what I told him during his entire childhood. Wait until next year. Wait until the rebuild is done. But let's face it. This is never going to happen. Not on any sustained level. The process is wrong. Unless there is a wholesale change in philosophy, there will never, ever be a 5 year stretch where the Mets outperform the Yankees.
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Ceetar May 10 2018 04:13 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Well, do you mean every year or as an aggregate? because damn, the Mets have had more success over the last 5 years. both made playoffs twice. Mets won two series to their one. Mets went to the World Series, with a real shot to win it. If the Mets do in fact go farther in the playoffs this year than them, you could extend to more than 5 years. But whatever, it's not about RINGZ! baseball is a social thing. Right now he's, presumably, having fun with you on your Mets outings, watching the games. There might come a time when all his friends want to go to Yankee stadium and he wants to not be a grouch about it. Maybe that's okay. That's not his collection of little league Like, forced narratives aside, real talk, Yankees fans and Mets fans are roughly the same people, to like, the 99th %tile. It's hard being so invested in something outside your control, but like, that's kinda life too.
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Centerfield May 10 2018 04:28 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I know it's not about the RINGZ. Neither the Mets nor Yankees have any titles in the last 5 years. But the Mets have had losing seasons in 3 of those last 5 years. The Yankees last losing season was 1995.
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G-Fafif May 10 2018 04:28 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
CF, sounds like you're raising a real mensch. You wouldn't have it in you to parent a frontrunning jerk.
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Centerfield May 10 2018 04:55 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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He's really the sweetest kid around. Hell of a lot nicer than me. He's at the age where baseball still means the world to him, but he won't be there for long. The Mets could have won back to back championships when I was in college, but it wouldn't have meant nearly as much to me as that '86 team. I don't know. I just feel like I did him a real disservice. His entire childhood has been three months of 2015, one decent year in 2016, and the rest of it hearing how the Mets suck. When I was growing up, I got to see a Mets team that was competitive for 7 straight years. 6 times they won 90 games. 2 times, they won 100. A World Championship. '85 Gooden. He's never going to see anything like that.
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G-Fafif May 10 2018 05:03 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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The past is the luck of the draw; the future is you never know. You did good.
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41Forever May 10 2018 05:57 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
You did well.
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d'Kong76 May 10 2018 06:07 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Benjamin Grimm May 10 2018 06:13 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I really and truly believe that kids shares interests with their parents if they're by nature inclined to do so. Certainly that's true by the time they're 13 years old. Would he have been a Mets fan if you weren't? Maybe not. But he certainly had a choice.
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Methead May 10 2018 06:20 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I don't know where I got it, but I had a Yankees jacket when I was a little kid.
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Centerfield May 10 2018 06:44 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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This is ShortCenter when he was zero. And Mookie. This isn't too much pressure to root for the Mets?
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Benjamin Grimm May 10 2018 06:50 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I got dragged to church every Sunday and every Holy Day of Obligation. I had eight years of catechism. I never really felt it, never believed it, never wanted it, and when I was old enough I walked away from it. Your son is a free-thinking human being and if he didn't want this, he'd know he had options.
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DocTee May 10 2018 07:52 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
My wife and I are Mets fans. We lived in the SF Bay Area for 15+ years-- both our daughters were born and raised there.
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sharpie May 10 2018 08:22 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
My son, the long-ago poster Lenny Harris, grew up a Mets fan in the midst of the Yankee late '90s early 2000s run of WS titles. He was 8 and a big Met fan for the 2000 World Series. We went to the stupid Met-Yankee rally in Bryant Park. Most of the kids he knew were Yankee fans although his best friend was not a baseball fan.
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Lefty Specialist May 10 2018 08:33 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
My son, born in 1995, had a similar path. He could barely comprehend baseball when the Yankees beat the Mets in 2000. He was crushed by a frozen Carlos Beltran when he was 11, then doubly crushed when he was 12 and 13 by Mets collapses. Yankee fans made his life miserable. But it also taught him to appreciate the good times when they were so fleeting. We Skyped game 3 of the World Series in 2015 with him, as we were having a party and he wanted to be a part of it even though he was 200 miles away at college. It was awesome.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 10 2018 08:47 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Off the Keyspan sign
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seawolf17 May 11 2018 01:29 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
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This is it for me. There's a reason the quote says "rooting for the MFYs is like rooting for US Steel."
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Fman99 May 11 2018 01:43 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
My son is 13 too. He also loves the Mets. He elates when they win and curses (in a non profane, 13 year old adorable fashion) when they lose or when they suffer injuries. And he's taken some shit, in little league (when he was wearing a bright compression sleeve like Yo only to get ribbed for it), and probably at school. He wore his Cespedes shirt today. The Mets swag is in regular rotation, regardless of the team's record. He does it because it's part of who he is. He's a Mets fan.
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seawolf17 May 11 2018 02:00 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
no YOU'RE crying
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cooby May 11 2018 02:41 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
My daughter played junior high basketball
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metsmarathon May 11 2018 12:04 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
in the words of john kennedy:
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Edgy MD May 11 2018 12:19 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Sheesh guys, you've made this a Game Six of a thread.
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dgwphotography May 11 2018 01:52 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Youse guys make me proud to be a Mets fan...
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 11 2018 02:03 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
You know how there's been a shift in childbearing philosophy over the last decade or two away from praising results ("good score," "nice grades") and toward praising effort?
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A Boy Named Seo May 11 2018 03:39 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Fboy in the Yo compression sleeve is one of my favorite tidbits of all the cool stuff in this thread.
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Centerfield May 14 2018 10:05 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
So in the end, what it comes down to is the ability to separate the Mets from the Wilpons.
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Edgy MD May 14 2018 10:43 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
If the issue is that Wilpons are dispicable, you're not going to find a whole lot of true honorable types out there among sports owning billionaires.
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Centerfield May 14 2018 10:47 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Both your points are correct.
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41Forever May 14 2018 10:49 PM Re: Bad Parenting Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 15 2018 12:50 PM |
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I take it you are too young to remember M. Donald Grant? That gentleman was so out of touch that he allowed surrogates to beat down his best player -- the franchise icon in his prime -- in the press then trade him, and others, in a spit of spite. Then he refused to accept that the game had changed since the 1950s, thought a racing donkey would appeal to fans and could have realistically shut down the upper deck for two seasons. If I can survive that, you can survive these guys. There is no comparison. If the alternative is the Steinbrenners, I'll take the Wilpons. Every day. Fred's never been given a lifetime ban for paying people to round up dirt on his own star players, or hired the same manager five times, or been suspended for other abuses or belittled a player as a "fat toad" or any of the other things the people owning the other team have been responsible for.
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batmagadanleadoff May 14 2018 11:56 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Oh, please ferchrissakes, before I throw up in my mouth. Steinbrenner never knowingly put his and the Yankees money in the history of the world's biggest Ponzi scheme ever, blinded by greed and figgering his good friend Bernie Madoff would protect him when the shit hit the fan and the redemptions came a callin'. The only reason the Wilpons still own their MLB team and Frank McCourt doesn't is because eff Wilpon has better social skills.
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Centerfield May 14 2018 11:59 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I am too young to know Grant. I’ve read terrible things.
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batmagadanleadoff May 15 2018 12:08 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Grant was awful, but pales in awfulness next to eff Wilpon, which is the worst thing to happen to the Mets in their entire history, not even close. And Grant's reign was limited to a handful of years until Doubleday bought the Mets. And you nailed Steinbrenner-- above all, he wanted to win and to be the top NY dog. His plan wasn't to assemble an 83 win team and hope for lotsa luck. And Madoff. (see my post above yours).
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Nymr83 May 15 2018 01:05 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
George might have sone some sleazy shit, but Hal Steinbrenner is pretty much the model of good ownership
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Ceetar May 15 2018 02:16 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
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lol. he's a sleezy rich profit-monger just like the rest of them.
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seawolf17 May 15 2018 12:44 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Unquestionably, yes, but he doesn't seem to let it affect the product on the field. If Cashman goes to him and says "I need $400M for Harper" next off-season, he'll get it.
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41Forever May 15 2018 12:51 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
What's a profit-monger?
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seawolf17 May 15 2018 12:54 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Profit uber alles. And admittedly, that's their job as owners. But that doesn't mean we have to swear blind allegiance. Even though I still totally do.
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metirish May 15 2018 01:04 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
For whatever reason at Lorcan's school( St. Theresa Bronx) several of the teachers are big Mets fans, his current 5th Grade teacher a die hard, so that helps...also helps that the only reason why Lorcan likes the Mets is because of me....but honestly he doesn't watch when they are on, never asks me the score...so in that respect it doesn't bother him and that is good.
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Ceetar May 15 2018 01:20 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Hal would cut payroll to 4 million and tell MLB to fuck off with the complaining about them taking money and not spending it on the team if he felt like a 4 million payroll makes him more money than a 204 million one. Without a hesitation.
maybe. I still don't see that, especially given the Stanton trade.(Machado would actually be their guy unless these prospects really really work out) But it helps to have 'acquired' the team when he did. Already running with a huge profit margin. And if you think he's not making all sorts of investments all over the place that are skirting laws and loopholes, you're kidding yourself. It's just that his 'Madoff' is slightly to the otherside of the legality line. So far. Well, if there exists a line anymore. Certain people are working to make sure people like Steinbrenner and Wilpon get much much richer, but that's more for the politics thread.
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Edgy MD May 15 2018 01:31 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I'm not sure what we're talking about.
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Ceetar May 15 2018 01:34 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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there's a strong, large, and persistent faction of the Mets fanbase that wishes they were Yankee fans and it's only stubborn pride, opportunity, or tradition that keeps them from making the switch.
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Rockin' Doc May 15 2018 01:54 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I would give up my interest in MLB, before I would become a Yankee fan.
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Centerfield May 15 2018 02:00 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
The original point is whether making our kids Mets fans was the right thing to do. We subject them to losing and ridicule. Is it worth it?
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Ceetar May 15 2018 02:08 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I mean, hell, it's tough. The Wilpons are not good people, and if that's enough for you to not want to support the product that's fine. Same could be said for quite a few corporations, and it's a tough road sometimes. Hobby Lobby, Chick Fil-A, Walmart, etc. I'm reluctant to support those, which are probably worse than the Wilpons.
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Edgy MD May 15 2018 02:12 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Centerfield, you've come at one guy this morning as being "stupid and lazy," and another as a "dumbass."
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d'Kong76 May 15 2018 04:36 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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This thread is really all over the map. I kinda didn't keep up because I felt
Absof'nlutely! Two more cents, the only time I ever think about the Wilpons is when they come up here.
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Centerfield May 15 2018 05:25 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I agree that we should be cool to one another. But "cool" should go beyond "don't use bad words". At the end of this thread, after reading all the feedback, I accepted that you can justify rooting for the Mets by teaching your kid the lesson of overcoming adversity. And if you can separate the club from its owners, the Madoff scandal, the Castergine lawsuit, etc., then all the shortcomings of the Wilpons, can be viewed as obstacles facing the Mets, rather than character traits of the Mets. Simply put: Scenario A: The Mets engaged in fraud, and have now put themselves at a disadvantage competitively. They also tend to be dicks to pregnant women. Can you justify rooting for the Mets? No way. Scenario B: The Mets are a noble team that have been handcuffed by their crooked owners. Can you justify rooting for the Mets? Absolutely. End of discussion really, for my purposes. Then, it was suggested that the Wilpons are not so bad. In fact, they are better than the owners across town. This is patently not true. Even during the George years, you never questioned his desire to win above all else, even if the method was crooked. And certainly since then, they have not been anything but a solid, well run team. Pointing this out is not "lionizing" anyone. Nor is it indicative of some secret desire to be a Yankee fan. Both ideas are an insult far worse than "dumbass". You don't have to use potty words to be a jerk. So when I say that the person who conveyed this idea is a dumbass, it's an expression of anger reacting to a stupid accusation. I want my team to have smart, ethical, trustworthy, competent ownership. That doesn't make me a secret Yankee fan. I stand by the idea that the post in the other thread is stupid and lazy. There are two pages of posts all talking about the need to commit to one philosophy or the other. A post the comes in and refutes a theory that literally no one has proposed is dumb and a waste of time.
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Edgy MD May 15 2018 05:29 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Resisting such attacks would be a lovely place to start. It's pretty much all we've ever asked.
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d'Kong76 May 15 2018 05:44 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
[fimg=250:2fqzr8sf]http://i.imgur.com/3f1BBVDl.jpg[/fimg:2fqzr8sf][fimg=250:2fqzr8sf]http://i.imgur.com/aqGqH6ul.jpg[/fimg:2fqzr8sf]
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G-Fafif May 15 2018 05:58 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I am a person who attempted dozens of times to put a hat on a cat, yet rarely succeeded. But Bernie did allow it...once. [fimg=500]http://i65.tinypic.com/2drcbw5.jpg[/fimg]
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Centerfield May 15 2018 06:07 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Sure. That's fair. But I am asking you, and everyone else, to be cognizant of attacks that come in different forms. "there's a strong, large, and persistent faction of the Mets fanbase that wishes they were Yankee fans and it's only stubborn pride, opportunity, or tradition that keeps them from making the switch." "You're stupid. You secretly want to be a Yankee fan. We all know it." These two convey the same insult. One insult is just wearing fancier clothes. "I would counter that there are's a large contingent of Mets fans who feel any criticism of the team reveals a secret desire to root for another team. This preposterous idea helps justify their blind devotion to the Mets while willfully refusing to see any flaws." "No dumbass. We want our organization to have good, smart owners who are committed to winning and don’t engage in fraud." Same insult. Fancier clothes.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 16 2018 03:42 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
I mean, if you want to go WAAAAY macro, recriminations-wise, you probably shouldn't get your kids into sports. Watching 'em, anyway. There are, like, a lot more productive/rewarding pathways towards which you could guide their leisure time.
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d'Kong76 May 16 2018 03:54 AM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I didn't view this as an attack on anyone here, and I agreed with it because I believe it to be true. Soon as someone starts flipping the Yankees do this and the Yankees do that cards I'll always say well go root for the Yankees if you are in such an envy of the crosstown doings.
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Centerfield May 16 2018 02:03 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
It was an insult directed at me.
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41Forever May 16 2018 02:51 PM Re: Bad Parenting Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 16 2018 03:05 PM |
I brought up the Steinbrenners. If you're too young to remember M. Donald Grant, then you definitely didn't live through the utter nonsense of the Steinbrenners in the 1970s and early 1980s
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d'Kong76 May 16 2018 03:01 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I'm sorry you feel that way, but I respectfully have to disagree.
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Centerfield May 16 2018 03:14 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I get that it's a tough call between the two. On the one hand, you have Fred and Jeff Wilpon who fail to spend like a big market team, throw tantrums when others do, meddle in medical decisions, alienate beloved former players, criticize a female employee for getting pregnant out of wedlock, fire her, and eventually settle with her when she brings a lawsuit, criticize their own players in a New Yorker article, build a ballpark in homage to the ballpark of another team, name their rotunda after a great player from that other team, take part in the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, get sued as a result of it, negotiate a secret loan from their buddy the Commissioner, and take out personal loans against the franchise, crippling the on-field product for the foreseeable future. And on the other hand, Hal Steinbrenner is George's son. I mean. How do you choose?
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d'Kong76 May 16 2018 04:06 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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My brain just exploded; now if you'll excuse me, I have quite a mess here to attend to...
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Benjamin Grimm May 16 2018 05:06 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I know. It's not like the Mets were on the verge of folding or relocating. If the Doubleday-Wilpon team hadn't bought the Mets, someone else would have. And we might have been better off under Robert Abplanalp. (Anyone else remember that name?)
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41Forever May 16 2018 05:09 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Hey, M. Donald Grant scarred my childhood. I'm not over it yet.
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Centerfield May 16 2018 05:30 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Wasn't he a minority owner who had already been fired as team president by then?
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batmagadanleadoff May 16 2018 05:46 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Oh! So now eff Wilpon is getting the undeserved credit of saving the Mets from the de Roulets and M. Donald Grant? He had a tiny ONE percent stake in the Mets as a courtesy favor from Nelson Doubleday when the Doubleday Group bought the Mets in 1980 ferchrissakes. You think Doubleday was so strapped for cash that he needed eff's 1% to complete the sale? It was eff Wilpon who didn't have the money for a larger stake in 1980 and in fact, probably never had the money when he took over the team years later, cutthroatting his way to full ownership and screwing Doubleday, the man that gave Wilpon access, relying instead on bogus exaggerated financial statements based on non existent Madoff gains-- the investment vehicle that Wilpon absolutely knew or had to know was a scam. He knowingly invested in humanity's biggest scam and Steinbrenner's worse because he fired his fucking managers? (Firing his fucking managers all the way to the World Series every fucking year while the Mets played Funiculi Funicula with Tom Hausman). Steinbrenner got Reggie Fucking Jackson and we got Tom Hausman.
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G-Fafif May 16 2018 05:57 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Five percent, I believe. It took several decades for my goodwill toward Mets owners for simply not being deRoulet (or Steinbrenner) to completely wear away, so I understand the impulse toward vestigial gratitude. It may not be operative at this stage of the franchise's development, but I get it in a vacuum.
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Edgy MD May 16 2018 06:00 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
The case against Steinbrenner is certainly not limited to the fact that he impulsively fired his managers. But if you like him, you like him.
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batmagadanleadoff May 16 2018 06:06 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I thought so. But I googled a few pieces to write that post and they said one percent. Actually, I thought it was closer to 10%.
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batmagadanleadoff May 16 2018 06:08 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Agree. I was being customarily and stylistically snarky. But Madoff. Likely knowingly. Top that.
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batmagadanleadoff May 16 2018 06:12 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Steinbrenner was an asshole whose teams made the playoffs. Wilpon's a douchebag whose teams usually never make the playoffs. The douchebaggy character flaws cancel each other out and whaddya got left? Reggie and Catfish and Winfield against Michael Cuddyer and Jason Vargas.
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d'Kong76 May 16 2018 06:16 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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I think of Steiney and I think of the pussy grabber in the WH.
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Edgy MD May 16 2018 06:36 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
You're hardly alone. The president himself has called Steinbrenner his best friend.
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Centerfield May 16 2018 07:04 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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If there was a Mt. Rushmore of detestable, I feel like those two would be the first two heads. In fact, I'm struggling to think of two more that are comparable.
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Centerfield May 16 2018 07:07 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
Back to the larger point, the Mets owners are shit people. Just because there may have been other shit owners doesn't change that.
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seawolf17 May 16 2018 07:08 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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True.
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cooby May 16 2018 07:09 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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Please, put it somewhere even more remote than South Dakota
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Ceetar May 16 2018 08:10 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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If only Steinbrenner had cared enough about winning to do whatever it took to make a few extra bucks for years. It's impossible to know because these are all private finances, but maybe Mike Piazza doesn't happen without Madoff.
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batmagadanleadoff May 16 2018 08:23 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
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If you can justify investing with Madoff knowing it was a scam all along because it yielded Piazza, then where do you get off panning anything Steinbrenner ever did?
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Ceetar May 16 2018 08:27 PM Re: Bad Parenting |
I'm really doing neither, I think they are/were both out of touch old white men that cared primarily about status and profit. Like many rich folk, their various successes have a lot to do with already being rich, luck, and circumstance.
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