Master Index of Archived Threads


Heilman, Keppy, Diaz cannot long endure...

Bret Sabermetric Mar 30 2006 10:28 AM

with the Mets, I think. Of course, all Keppy, Heilman and Diaz need is one big injury to Hernandez, any starting pitcher , or any outfielder, which is what they're waiting for in their diminished roles, but these guys have to be frustrated with the way things have shaken out. If nothing opens up for them in the first half of year, do you deal them somewhere or keep telling them to suck it up? Would you be more comfortable unloading them, or keeping their pissed-off selves around for another year or more? if they play well and continue to be frustrated in their ambitions, do you put together a package at the trade deadline? If you're Omar, are you including them as trade bait right now? What could you get in exchange for all three (low-salary, real MLB potential) now? Is there a major overpaid player whom the Mets could use on a small market team that needs a starting pitcher, and a low-D high-O outfielder and 2bman?

Yancy Street Gang Mar 30 2006 10:32 AM

I'd keep Heilman around. He's not eligible for free agency until after the 2010 season. With Glavine, Trachsel, and Martinez continuing to age (as are we all) I suspect that Heilman will move into the rotation way before 2010. He's worth keeping around, I think. As for the Diaz, if Nady locks down the position, and with Milledge on the horizon, it might make sense to trade him. I wouldn't look to dump him, but when they have a need to fill, Diaz could be a handy chip to have. Same with Keppinger. Keep him until you need him or until you can get something good for him. I see no need to aggressively seek to deal them.

metirish Mar 30 2006 10:33 AM

I would keep Heilman around,don't the mets really control him till 2010, that's when he can become a FA...that's it Aaron just bend over a little more...

Bret Sabermetric Mar 30 2006 10:38 AM

When a serious hole opens up, the price to fill it also goes up considerably, because the other team knows you're desperate. Also, shy of winning MLB jobs, all three are playing close to the top of their games right now. if Keppy gets injured, or Heilman has a few weak games, or Diaz goes into a batting slump, they're not valuable as chips.

MFS62 Mar 30 2006 10:39 AM

Diaz should stay for at least one of three reasons: Floyd gets hurt, or needs an occasional rest. (Chavez doesn't have the bat for more than occasional duty for a corner outfielder) And Floyd will be a free agent at the end of this year. Nady can't cut it. Milledge may not be ready until mid next year. Later

DocTee Mar 30 2006 11:48 AM

]that's it Aaron just bend over a little more... end of Irish's post ]When a serious hole opens up start of Bret's next post I got nothing to add.

RealityChuck Mar 30 2006 12:00 PM

Why let Heilman go? He's unhappy now, but he'll be an asset in the bullpen, and probably will get chances to start not only this year, but in the future once Pedro, Glavine, and Trachsel are gone. Diaz may make it if Nady fails. Since all are under your control for several years, for a low price, keep them until someone better comes along.

sharpie Mar 30 2006 12:17 PM

This is silly. I can't imagine that Heilman will pitch worse in the bullpen than he would in the rotation. He's a pro, he'll do whatever it takes and he'll end up starting before too long I'm sure. I'm unconcerned also about Diaz's and Keppinger's happiness. If we get a good offer for them, I'm happy to let them go, if not, we've got insurance.

Gwreck Mar 30 2006 01:53 PM

If we're not trading Milledge at all, these are likely to be some important players should the Mets need to make a deal at the end of July. My personal crystal ball still says the Mets will try to trade for a prominent starting pitcher come the end of July...

Bret Sabermetric Mar 30 2006 02:30 PM

sharpie wrote: This is silly. I can't imagine that Heilman will pitch worse in the bullpen than he would in the rotation. He's a pro, he'll do whatever it takes and he'll end up starting before too long I'm sure. I'm unconcerned also about Diaz's and Keppinger's happiness. If we get a good offer for them, I'm happy to let them go, if not, we've got insurance. Gwrecks' post gets the drift--are you eager to get value (that you can use) or do you want them around, possibly gathering dust, possibly playing fewer innings, than they're capable of? Do you save them for insurance purposes, or are you pushing hard to deal them asap? I don't think these questions are silly. Unknowable, risky issues maybe, but not silly at all. Deals aren't things you "get" by chance--you have to look hard to get deals that favor you. Is that what you want Omar to be doing? Heilman might not pitch worse in the pen, but he won't pitch as much, and he might not have the same impact he would in the rotation. His attitude matters only as far as what happens next year when the Mets again promise a spot in the rotation, and he says "I fell for that b.s. last year" and says that he wants to be traded. Remember, he was pretty pissed off already, and they told him he'd get a shot at the rotation with a good spring. One good spring later, he's in the pen again. I can't imagine he feels the Mets dealt with him properly.

Nymr83 Mar 30 2006 02:39 PM

I was pissed off at the Seo trade to "make way for Heilman" and I'm even more pissed off now that i know that the guy we were really making way for is Brian Bannister. They traded Jae Seo to hand his spot to Brian Bannister. no, i'm not gonna get over this any time soon.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 30 2006 02:51 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: (Heilman's) attitude matters only as far as what happens next year when the Mets again promise a spot in the rotation, and he says "I fell for that b.s. last year" and says that he wants to be traded. Remember, he was pretty pissed off already, and they told him he'd get a shot at the rotation with a good spring. One good spring later, he's in the pen again. I can't imagine he feels the Mets dealt with him properly. He seems to have accepted that he can't demand a trade in 2006, and he won't have the right to make that demand in 2007 either. I agree, though, that the Mets have cost themselves some goodwill with Heilman, and if they don't treat him more carefully he can become a full-fledged malcontent. But they also have time to unruffle his feathers. It's highly unlikely that both Glavine and Trachsel will be back next year. In fact, they very well might both be gone. There's a decent chance that Heilman will be a starter in 2007. (He may still get his chance in 2006, too, of course.) The worst-case scenario, from the perspective of Heilman's ambitions, is that Glavine or Trachsel returns next year, Bannister thrives, and Zito also comes on board with a five-year contract. That leaves Aaron in the pen again for 2007, and forces him to look ahead to 2008. That may start putting the "I can't wait to get outta here" thoughts in his head.

Elster88 Mar 30 2006 03:08 PM

]and they told him he'd get a shot at the rotation with a good spring. I don't remember this telling, but I don't pay nearly as much attention to ST jibber-jabber.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 30 2006 03:31 PM

I wasn't in the room, but I think it was generally understood that he was told he had a real chance to crack the rotation. Else why not work him out of the pen from the start of ST?

Yancy Street Gang Mar 30 2006 03:35 PM

If he was told he had a real chance, then I don't think he was necessarily lied to. Had Bannister not emerged, Heilman would have gotten the job.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 30 2006 03:41 PM

Not lied to. But I don't think he's happy with being in the bullpen now, either. Just a guess, but not an unreasonable one. He started #5 on the depth chart, had a good spring, and is now #6.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 30 2006 03:45 PM

True. I think he's probably at least a little disgruntled, and it's not unjustified. Wagner approached him in an effort to make him feel good about the bullpen. I don't have a sense of whether or not that worked, or how well.

Rotblatt Mar 30 2006 04:56 PM

Tampa's interested in[url=http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/30/Rays/Maddon_won_t_fret_ove.shtml]trading[/url] Julio Lugo for Heilman. If I were one of Tampa's 5 fans, I'd be totally psyched right now. ]COMINGS AND GOINGS: As other teams start to cut down, the Rays may have a chance to bolster their roster - specifically the bullpen - through waiver claims or small trades. Reliever Heath Bell, who is in camp with the Mets, and John Wasdin, who was released by Texas, are among players they may have interest in. They could also get quickly involved in a bigger deal with the Mets if they were to consider trading Aaron Heilman, who is unhappy about being bumped to the bullpen. The Mets have had interest in Julio Lugo and still have a need for an established second baseman. The deal makes sense for Tampa. For us, I personally think it's retarded, even though a Heilman for Lugo trade in a vacuum isn't half bad. Maybe we could convince them that Bannister or Trachsel could do the job? If we had Jay Seo &/or Kris Benson right now, we'd be sitting awfully pretty.

Nymr83 Mar 30 2006 06:49 PM

yeah thats a great trade if we still had Seo but as it is i'm unsure i'd do it, i'd probably have to say yes.

Elster88 Mar 30 2006 06:55 PM

In high school, any guy with the nickname Keppy should have gotten beaten up for the principle of it.