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"How Bad Are They?"

G-Fafif Jun 05 2018 08:31 PM

So bad that the 2018 Mets are the third club in franchise history to fall from at least ten games over .500 to at least three games under .500 in the same season, joining the 1991 Mets and 2010 Mets in this particular lane of infamy. The 2018 Mets raced high above .500 sooner and plunged uncomfortably beneath it sooner than their unfortunately descending predecessors. That's what 15-28 will do immediately after you've started 12-2. Honorable (?) mention to the 1971 and 1976 Mets who turned similar spikes into precipitous in-season drops. In their cases, the final record didn't suffer nearly so much. Details here.

Ashie62 Jun 06 2018 01:54 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Bad. I now think of Yoenis Cespedes in the same way as Bobby Bonilla. Yes, the are possibly as bad as the early ninties teams

d'Kong76 Jun 06 2018 02:41 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Ashie62 wrote: I now think of Yoenis Cespedes in the same way as Bobby Bonilla. Yikes.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2018 02:54 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I feel like we have progressed to "fire the hitting coach" territory.

d'Kong76 Jun 06 2018 03:28 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Players only meeting at eleven.

Centerfield Jun 06 2018 03:45 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I think you have to fire Alderson. We can always go back to payroll and point the finger at the owners, but that’s not going to change and we are going to be on this limited budget. We need someone who can build a winner on this limited budget and it’s becoming clear that Sandy is not that guy. Jay Bruce, Jason Vargas, Jose Reyes, AJ Ramos, all of these are moves where we would have been better off doing nothing. Gotta find the right guy to build this team knowing we are handcuffed to small market standards.

Centerfield Jun 06 2018 03:49 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I just hope that from now on, we understand that a team with a shit farm system can’t get away with signing Jay Bruce and Jason Vargas when competitors are signing JD Martinez and Jake Arrieta.

smg58 Jun 06 2018 10:12 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Ashie62 wrote: Bad. I now think of Yoenis Cespedes in the same way as Bobby Bonilla. Yes, the are possibly as bad as the early ninties teams Cespedes, in his defense, has been hurt for most of this nosedive. But he's hurt too often to be counted on to carry the offense moving forward.

metirish Jun 06 2018 01:37 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

WOW, this team is just awful to watch...absolutely not looking forward to the weekend subway series....Callaway looks lost....

bmfc1 Jun 06 2018 02:40 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Gene Rayburn: "The Mets are so bad" Audience: "HOW BAD ARE THEY?" Gene: "They've already been BLANKED for next season"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2018 03:07 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

"Awarded the top draft pick"

cooby Jun 06 2018 03:22 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

d'Kong76 wrote: Players only meeting at eleven. any news on this ? Sorry been offline a few days

bmfc1 Jun 06 2018 03:25 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

"Eliminated"

d'Kong76 Jun 06 2018 05:22 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

cooby wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Players only meeting at eleven. any news on this ? Sorry been offline a few days Sorry, I made that up... was just tacking onto JCL fire the hitting guy comment...

cooby Jun 06 2018 05:26 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

:)

seawolf17 Jun 06 2018 05:34 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Gene Rayburn: "The Mets are so bad" Audience: "HOW BAD ARE THEY?" Gene: "They've already been BLANKED for next season"

Ashie62 Jun 06 2018 08:35 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

So, who would replace Callaway??

Lefty Specialist Jun 06 2018 11:34 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Callaway is getting that deer-in-the-headlights look to him. But I think Pat Roessler will be the sacrificial offering to the Noffense gods. The real question is can they sink behind the Marlins.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 07 2018 03:52 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Ashie62 wrote: So, who would replace Callaway?? Honestly, I don't get the Fire Callaway crowd. The problem is motivation or something, and NOT shitty hitting/shifty bullpen/shifty depth because of shitty roster construction, or shifty player development?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2018 04:06 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The. Nats are now in first place as most experts predicted they'd end up in by season's end. And how bad are the Mets? They're now closer to the last place Marlins than to the first place Nats.

MFS62 Jun 07 2018 12:53 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Bad isn't the word for it. But it will have to suffice until it is replaced in the thread title by something worse. Later

Lefty Specialist Jun 07 2018 01:42 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Fuck it, bring up Alonso. He can't be any worse than what they have already.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2018 01:43 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ashie62 wrote: So, who would replace Callaway?? Honestly, I don't get the Fire Callaway crowd. The problem is motivation or something, and NOT shitty hitting/shifty bullpen/shifty depth because of shitty roster construction, or shifty player development? I'm not headhunting, but I tend to think Callaway's doing a pretty bad job deploying his guys and having them ready to play. Particularly the offense and defense.

Vic Sage Jun 07 2018 07:57 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

...Particularly the offense and defense. Agreed. But what about the rest of the team?

41Forever Jun 07 2018 08:00 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Edgy MD wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ashie62 wrote: So, who would replace Callaway?? Honestly, I don't get the Fire Callaway crowd. The problem is motivation or something, and NOT shitty hitting/shifty bullpen/shifty depth because of shitty roster construction, or shifty player development? I'm not headhunting, but I tend to think Callaway's doing a pretty bad job deploying his guys and having them ready to play. Particularly the offense and defense. I think with a rookie manager, they've got to give him some more time to sort things out.

d'Kong76 Jun 07 2018 08:21 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

41Forever wrote: I think with a rookie manager, they've got to give him some more time to sort things out. I think the Callaway is dumb, incompetent, in over his head, caught in the headlights, impaired at times, brainless, witless and illogical stuff will slowly pass with time. Got men on base? Find a way to make them cross the plate. Got a pitcher running to first? Don't freeze up at second and not complete the double play. I could go on...

d'Kong76 Jun 07 2018 08:22 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Does anyone recollect what date the line-up card incident occurred?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2018 08:28 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

May 9.

d'Kong76 Jun 07 2018 08:32 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Wow, thanks, almost a month now...

Edgy MD Jun 07 2018 08:49 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I don't think Callaway is dumb. But I think he's got a basketball coach's problem of being locked into his philosophy. When you live and die by the system you build, regardless of available personnel or situation, it can be sort of a small way of avoiding accountability. If it doesn't work, it's the organization who didn't get the right people for the system, or the players for their intractable refusal to adapt to the system. That's only going to by you time for so long, of course, and in the end, clinging to your philosophy come hell or high water makes you the intractable one.

MFS62 Jun 07 2018 09:06 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Right. You have to be flexible based on the roster you have. Tony LaRussa might have kept his starters in longer, or pitching changes to a minimum, with this bullpen. Later

HahnSolo Jun 07 2018 09:12 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

To me the season turned that gay dame in St. Lou where Lagares lost what should have been the final out in extra innings. Just felt like a lot of good mojo ended there.

Centerfield Jun 08 2018 01:48 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

If we have to pick a defining moment, for me it was that 8th inning meltdown against Washington. They lost three straight series after that game and have never been the same. But really, this season was lost in the off-season when we failed to recognize how far off we were and brought in middling talent.

41Forever Jun 08 2018 02:00 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I think the season turned for good with the sweep of the Yankees that started on June 8, and with what will forever be known as "The Brandon Nimmo Game."

Lefty Specialist Jun 08 2018 06:10 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Centerfield wrote: If we have to pick a defining moment, for me it was that 8th inning meltdown against Washington. They lost three straight series after that game and have never been the same. This x1000. They were 6 outs away from going 12-1 and thrashing the Nationals. But right there all the flaws of the team became exposed all at once. I think that game rattled them and they've never gotten things on track since. I guess they'd have come back to the pack eventually anyway, but they seemed to nosedive from then on.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2018 06:20 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Other than one small spike in mid-May, this team has been on a steady downhill trajectory.

seawolf17 Jun 08 2018 06:43 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Well, when you put it in terms of wins and losses, no, it really doesn't look good. But it's really the thought that counts. The emotional wins.

HahnSolo Jun 08 2018 07:55 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The only thing with the Nationals game is that they got them back the exact same way two nights later. Maybe to me that felt like a push. Surely there have been plenty of losses to choose from, but if they won the Lagares no-catch game (sorry to keep harping on this one) they'd have been 16-7 and would have won that series. Including that game they've gone 12-25 since.

Ashie62 Jun 09 2018 01:52 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

We will truly know how bad they are if Callaway gets canned in-season

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 09 2018 01:56 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Centerfield wrote: But really, this season was lost in the off-season when we failed to recognize how far off we were and brought in middling talent. Yyyyyep. Other contenders with spending money/capital load for bear, and carry extra ammo. We buy a used gun and hope it's loaded.

bmfc1 Jun 09 2018 11:28 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

You don't trade deGrom and Noah, they are under k and have reasonable salaries, you build around them now. That means a solid bullpen, other good starters so that bullpen is rested and strong defense. Sandy did NONE of these. There seems to be one lefty reliever in the entire organization (that can't be true but it seems to be); he resigns Bruce when there were better options if he read the market properly he signs Vargas when Arrieta was there. These are just examples of his ineptitude. The only good thing about this season is that Sandy has been exposed and will not be back--what? Heyman says that Sandy is under k through 2019? Ah hell, the Wilpons aren't going to pay him not work and Ken Rosenthal said yesterday that Sandy is "owed" the opportunity to rebuild.

Ashie62 Jun 09 2018 04:22 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The names Noah Syndergaard and Estevan Florial will get batted around in another six weeks near the trade deadline

Edgy MD Jun 09 2018 05:40 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I doubt it.

TransMonk Jun 09 2018 06:35 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I would love to build around deGrom and Noah (as well as Conforto, Nimmo and even Rosario). But, I'll echo that the Bruce, Frazier and Vargas moves were bad ones considering that SS, 1B and C had no reliable options for 2018 and will still be question marks in 2019. Sandy keeps constructing rosters that can win if EVERYTHING goes right. This season had big potential if Matz, Wheeler and/or Harvey could have gotten their shit together, if Rosario and/or Smith were ready to be an everyday and every at-bat threat, if Cespedes, Thor, d'Arnuad, etc. could stay healthy. But I think we all knew at the beginning of the season that the likelihood of ALL of that happening would be minuscule. I, for one, am not surprised at all that after 60 games the 2018 Mets have the same record as the 2017 Mets. They were essentially built the same way. And, hey, it worked in 2015 with some major help at the deadline - but I don't feel it is a sustainable model for success. I haven't seen any sign that 2019 will be any better and feel like we are wasting good seasons from deGrom instead of taking advantage of them.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2018 01:15 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

How bad are they? 16-33 since "the streak". Worst record in baseball in that span.

Rockin' Doc Jun 10 2018 07:51 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I no longer care to watch this team. They are pathetically inept.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2018 08:28 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

So bad that the 2018 Mets are the third club in franchise history to fall from at least ten games over .500 to at least three games under .500 in the same season, joining the 1991 Mets and 2010 Mets in this particular lane of infamy. The 2018 Mets raced high above .500 sooner and plunged uncomfortably beneath it sooner than their unfortunately descending predecessors. That's what 15-28 will do immediately after you've started 12-2. Honorable (?) mention to the 1971 and 1976 Mets who turned similar spikes into precipitous in-season drops. In their cases, the final record didn't suffer nearly so much. Details here. Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2018 08:42 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

And rather quickly, too.

MFS62 Jun 16 2018 09:40 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

G-Fafif wrote: Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season. Records are made to be broken. So is my spirit. Later

Ashie62 Jun 16 2018 10:31 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I had someone say to me that tradewise Noah is "damaged goods."

Zvon Jun 17 2018 02:09 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

MFS62 wrote: Update: The 2018 Mets are the first Mets to have risen to at least Ten Games Over .500 and fall to at least Nine Games Under .500 later that same season. Records are made to be broken. So is my spirit. Later Ha. 10 over, 10 under now. Tonight we turn it around.

Rockin' Doc Jun 17 2018 02:17 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I spent three hours at the Rocky Mount Mils, which contains 5 craft breweries and I still lack your orange and blue optimism. It will be a small miracle if this team ends up 81-81 for the season. I am expecting much worse a (72-90) is more likely in my view and I won't be shocked if they finish worse than that. The great start (11-1) was an aberration; this team is not remotely that good.

smg58 Jun 17 2018 02:18 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The preview of the tonight's game on my Yahoo app said that the Mets' batting average over the last 10 games is the lowest that any team has had over any 10-game stretch since the live-ball era began in 1920.

Zvon Jun 17 2018 02:20 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Rockin' Doc wrote: I spent three hours at the Rocky Mount Mils, which contains 5 craft breweries and I still lack your orange and blue optimism. It will be a small miracle if this team ends up 81-81 for the season. I am expecting much worse a (72-90) is more likely in my view and I won't be shocked if they finish worse than that. The great start (11-1) was an aberration; this team is not remotely that good. I won't disagree.

Zvon Jun 17 2018 02:39 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Good for three!!!!!! [fimg=400:q6yz5lwh]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df3DrX0UEAAxQqB.jpg[/fimg:q6yz5lwh]

Zvon Jun 17 2018 03:00 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Four runs! Count 'em!

Zvon Jun 17 2018 05:17 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Who knew? Good game :)

Zvon Jun 17 2018 05:19 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Oh great, I was in the wrong thread all night. lolol. Trying to cover all Mets social media outlets at the same time is a tough gig. Can you fix this Ed?

smg58 Jun 17 2018 11:37 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The starting pitching is trending upward, at least. Matz very quietly has a nearly identical ERA and WHIP to Jake Arrieta. Lugo is auditioning for a spot on next year's rotation, and while his last start wasn't so good, the start against the Yankees was super. Vargas (like seemingly most of the team) is still working his way back from an injury, but he has been good more often than not over the last month or so. Familia comes back today, and that can't possibly hurt. The team only has three trustworthy relievers right now even with Familia, but Gsellman and Swarzak were both sharp yesterday and are decent bets to remain so if they don't get overworked. Other than some injuries, I have no good explanation for the offense. Mesoraco has a .214 BABIP since he got here, and Reyes (.169!) and Guillorme (.196) have actually fared worse than that, but most of the team is performing close to career norms. Maybe Conforto hits like last year the rest of the way. Maybe the couple days off does Bruce some good. Maybe Cespedes shows up at some point. Maybe Cabrera can snap out of it, assuming he's not playing hurt too. Maybe Rosario actually learns something about hitting. Or, maybe not. The only firm grounds for optimism is that there is only one direction for them to go right now.

Lefty Specialist Jun 17 2018 12:01 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Unfortunately, scoring 5 runs and only allowing one is not a repeatable formula for this team. Most nights they struggle just to get 5 HITS.

Vic Sage Jun 18 2018 04:17 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

how about scoring 5 and giving up 3? That works too.

G-Fafif Jun 22 2018 02:06 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

7-22 since May 22. 20-40 since April 16.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 02:17 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I keep rooting for them to win, but if they win, then they might end up on the fringes of contention by the trade deadline, and hold onto pieces. Like Familia. And then fall apart. That would be the worst thing. But I can't really root for them to lose. I mean, what if they pull off an amazing run? All this indecision is terrible.

G-Fafif Jun 22 2018 02:26 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Clarity is a tempting siren, as if 7-22, 20-40 and 31-41 aren't blaring plenty loud already.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 02:40 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear. And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season...

MFS62 Jun 22 2018 02:54 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Centerfield wrote: I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear. And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season... That's why "bad" isn't the word I'd use yet. For now, its just "frustrating". Later

Ceetar Jun 22 2018 03:28 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Centerfield wrote: I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like they are such a different team with Cespedes in the lineup. And when Noah comes back, if they can just get close, maybe they call up Alonso and he goes on a tear. And I know that "if everything breaks right they can maybe grab a wild card" was exactly the season I was campaigning against in the winter, but given the choice between that and another lost season... Teams become other teams so fast sometimes. they turn corners. Smith and Rosario could suddenly be cornerstones. It could happen tonight. Maybe Coors was an outlier and the bullpen/pitching just wasn't ready for it, and it was a minor blip and this is the start of that corner turning. Like the corner they turned in 2015. It wasn't just Cespedes, as it took a few days for Cespedes to take flight. 57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd, if they start now. The Nationals are flawed and broken too. They're really not this bad. But they've dug a big enough hole that a 49-42 'solid' finish isn't going to do it.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2018 04:07 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Ceetar wrote: 57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd,.... I think it is. It's a 100 win pace over a full season.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 06:21 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

It's absurd, but it's certainly possible. If everything clicks for this team, they can play at that pace. It would be absurdly good given their level of talent, but they've had an absurdly bad record given their level of talent, so they've already proven that absurd is within their wheelhouse.

Ceetar Jun 22 2018 06:29 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: 57-34 to get to 88 wins isn't absurd,.... I think it is. It's a 100 win pace over a full season. But it's not a full season. It's a little more than a half season. Part of the difficulty of 100 wins is going through the ups and downs and injuries of 162. You don't need to be as good over 91. The alternative is going on a binge like the 11-1 and then just playing to roughly their ability the rest of the way. if they win 15 of their next 20 they only need to go on like a 96 win pace to get to 88.

41Forever Jun 22 2018 07:17 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

What are you guys, non-believers? Of course they're going to come roaring back when Noah and Cespedes are healthy. Cespedes and Nimmo in the same lineup? Opposing pitchers will be looking for Alex Torres caps. Heck, the first 20 rows in the outfield seats are going to be wearing Alex Torres caps. NL East teams will be demanding a mercy rule before long.

Rockin' Doc Jun 24 2018 01:48 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I can't drink enough to believe. This team is absolutely pathetic. At this point, I simply hope they can stay ahead of the depleted Marlins.

metirish Jun 25 2018 12:45 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Is this rock bottom?....it sure seems this way and that is sad.

dgwphotography Jun 25 2018 12:54 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

What's sad is that I don't think this is rock bottom

metirish Jun 25 2018 01:02 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

dgwphotography wrote: What's sad is that I don't think this is rock bottom Yeah, really...

Lefty Specialist Jun 25 2018 01:11 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Ya gotta believe that this is not rock bottom. That'll occur when they slip behind the Marlins (who are more or less trying to lose as an organization) into last place. So it's not rock-bottom, but rock-bottom can be seen from here.

RealityChuck Jun 25 2018 02:12 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The team's worst month in 1962: April. 3-13 .188 The Mets in June 2018: 4-17 .190 The Mets need one victory this week to (barely) beat that record.

MFS62 Jun 25 2018 02:14 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Lefty Specialist wrote: Ya gotta believe that this is not rock bottom. That'll occur when they slip behind the Marlins (who are more or less trying to lose as an organization) into last place. So it's not rock-bottom, but rock-bottom can be seen from here. If they keep this up, pretty soon they'll have to look up to look down. Later

Ceetar Jun 25 2018 02:51 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

We're so far from rock bottom. There's a lot of down to go. even if you're just talking about 2018, if they start gutting this team, or worse, promote the #brand experiment in AA. They're not actually this bad and some of these players are quite good. The right retooling around Manny Machado has them very strong contenders as soon as next year.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2018 03:03 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Foli, Strawberry, Wilson.

Ceetar Jun 25 2018 03:09 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Foli, Strawberry, Wilson. what are random meaningless players from the 80s? I'll take 'Beer Words' for $200 Alex.

Vic Sage Jun 25 2018 05:31 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Foli, Strawberry, Wilson. A: "Chicott, Foli, Strawberry, Abner, Wilson" Q: "What are the former Mets #1 picks?" That's 3 total whiffs, 1 major league player, and 1 all-star. I thought this was pretty bad track record and then i compared it to other teams' #1 picks, and you can see just how often they don't work out for other franchises, too. The Mets are one of 3 teams that have had 5 #1 picks. The others: Houston: Bannister, P / Nevin, 3b / Correa, SS / Appel, P / Aiken, P San Diego: Ivie, C/ D.Roberts, 3b / Almon, SS / Benes, P / Bush, ss 3 Teams with 4 #1 picks: Seattle: Chambers, OF / Moore, P/ GriffeyJr, OF / A-Rod, SS Pittsburgh: King, 3b / Benson, P / Bullington, P / Cole, P Tampa: J.Hamilton, of / D. Young, of / D.Price, P / T.Beckham, ss Seattle got 2 HOFers out of their 4 picks, but i don't know that the Mets were appreciably worse than any of the other teams in the results of their #1 picks. on edit: actually, after adding up the WAR for each of these picks, the teams rank as follows: Seattle: 229+ (4 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players) TB: 70+ (4 players, all with +WAR) Hou: 62+ (5 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players) SD: 43.6 (5 players, with +WAR coming from 4 players) Pitt: 43.6 (4 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players) Mets: 43.6 (5 players, with +WAR coming from 3 players) by this ranking, the Mets actually were the least successful drafting 1st, when you consider they had the most chances, but got the least +WAR, from the fewest players.

seawolf17 Jun 25 2018 07:05 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

BUT Foli was in the Staub deal in 1972, so there's that.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2018 07:19 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

At least the Mets didn't trade Nimmo for McCutcheon.

seawolf17 Jun 25 2018 07:28 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

batmagadanleadoff wrote: At least the Mets didn't trade Nimmo for McCutcheon. Yet. Don't give Sandy any ideas.

Ashie62 Jun 26 2018 02:48 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Better be careful when SF comes to town

Zvon Jun 26 2018 03:23 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

[tweet:csihvf1k]https://twitter.com/bigmetsfan1/status/1011438680811110401[/tweet:csihvf1k]

Lefty Specialist Jun 26 2018 12:29 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Hate to say it, but I've pretty much stopped watching.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2018 12:45 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Me too. The money I spent on Extra Innings this season is pretty much a wasted expenditure.

TransMonk Jun 26 2018 01:23 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The money I spent on Extra Innings this season is pretty much a wasted expenditure. Yup. I've also vowed not to purchase next season. I'll probably get the internet package, but hold off on the TV.

Rockin' Doc Jun 27 2018 12:05 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I have watched the Mets more this season, than I had in any of the 4 or 5 preceeding seasons. With each passing game in June, my desire to continue watching has grown a little less. After the last road trip, I came to the conclusion that there was little worth watching beyond Nimmo, DeGrom, and Cabrera. I am to the point that I will watch if DeGrom is pitching, otherwise I look for a more enjoyable way to spend my free time, like undergoing a colonoscopy or having a root canal done.

Centerfield Jul 02 2018 02:56 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I balked at the idea of trading deGrom and Syndergaard. I still think I am against it, especially since I have no confidence in the Mets ability to get value for these guys, but I honestly have no idea how in the world to fix this team.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2018 03:00 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I think it involves spending. On a higher quality of free agent (if they're willing to come here) and on international scouting. I don't want to trade deGrom or Syndergaard either, but I don't know that there's a quick fix that's likely to have the Mets contending in 2019. Maybe 2020, if things go well.

Lefty Specialist Jul 02 2018 03:05 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Centerfield wrote: I balked at the idea of trading deGrom and Syndergaard. I still think I am against it, especially since I have no confidence in the Mets ability to get value for these guys, but I honestly have no idea how in the world to fix this team. That's the thing. I don't trust these guys to get the building blocks needed to rebuild this team. I'd be more open to trading them if I had confidence that there was a plan and a process to implement it. Instead you've got Moe, Larry and Curly competing for Fred's and Jeff's affection.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2018 03:28 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Do you really believe that's what Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya amount to?

Vic Sage Jul 02 2018 04:43 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Edgy MD wrote: Do you really believe that's what Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya amount to? No, of course not. Moe, Larry and Curly were hugely successful.

41Forever Jul 02 2018 04:56 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I think it would be a mistake to blow up the team. Improve it, yes, but not blow it up. They just don't appear deep enough to withstand injuries. They need another impact bat if there are going to be questions about Cespedes' ability to stay on the field. The rotation is strong when all the pieces are there. Rosario is only 22 and learning on the job. We know Conforto is better than what we've seen this year. Frazier is better than we've seen this year. Bruce was apparently playing hurt all season, and we know he is better than what we've seen this year. Hopefully some of the bullpen arms we acquired in last year's purge will start contributing better than they have been.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 02 2018 04:57 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Edgy MD wrote: Do you really believe that's what Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya amount to? I dont. But I also don't think that Jeff Wilpon isn't putting and won't continue to put his very heavy and clumsy hands on the scale.

Zvon Jul 02 2018 05:31 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

Vic Sage wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Do you really believe that's what Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya amount to? No, of course not. Moe, Larry and Curly were hugely successful. lotd But it's early.

Ashie62 Jul 03 2018 01:37 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

I am cautiously optimistic Conforto's career has not "peaked" I have no feel on Amed Rosario and I'm guessing the Mets may not either

smg58 Jul 03 2018 02:49 AM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

The first thing you need to do is figure out who are the guys you can't win with, and move on from them. DeGrom is the guy I'm most sure the Mets CAN win with, so he's not going anywhere. I'm pretty sure I can win with Nimmo. I'm willing to gamble that an offseason that doesn't involve rehabbing will do Conforto a lot of good. Matz and Wheeler can be the fourth and fifth starters on a winning team. Wheeler is only under control for one more season, though, which makes things complicated. I believe Lugo can be the fifth starter on a winning team, but I am not certain of that. d'Arnaud gets hurt too often. I like the guy, but I'm non-tendering him. Lagares gets hurt too often. He has a contract that may be hard to move. You may have to settle for him as the righty reserve outfielder, which is fine given his defensive value, but you need to get somebody competent in AAA just in case. That's not an unreasonable asking price for what we have available this month. Cespedes gets hurt too often. The only way he plays a full season again is with an American League team who doesn't need to play him in the field. AL teams might want him, but not at $29M per year. We have to be prepared to eat at least a third of that. He's more likely to be dealable in the offseason, but I could see the Astros showing an interest in August (yes he'll clear waivers, and he may even be healthy by then). Syndergaard... is young enough and talented enough that I'd still be patient. Bruce is our fourth best corner outfielder. He needs to show enough life down the stretch to make himself desirable to other teams. Like Cespedes, it might take until the offseason to move him although he will also clear waivers. Dominic Smith needs to go back to being the guy with extra-base power to all sides of the field that he was in the minors. He has no business being routinely killed by the shift. I'm curious to see what McNeil has. Hopefully Rivera and Cecchini will reappear before the season is over, so we can make reasonable assessments of where they are. Rosario... maybe the walks over the last two days are the beginning of progress, maybe they're not. The even bigger concern, and for me the even bigger disappointment, is that both Fangraphs and the Fielding Bible have him solidly below average on defense. That's not encouraging at all. Frazier strikes me as one of those all-or-nothing swingers the league is adjusting to. His average is limited by the shift, and he's not the power hitter he used to be. Maybe he can keep the seat warm for Nolan Arrenado. The pen has Gsellman, Swarzak, Peterson, and maybe Lugo if Wheeler is not dealt. That's it. A closer and two lefties are essential, and probably one other pitcher as well. The 2019 wish list would be a centerfielder who can hit, a frontline starter, and four relievers. Oh, and I forgot catcher. And that's assuming first base, second base, and shortstop take care of themselves. It's a big, daunting list.

Lefty Specialist Jul 03 2018 02:09 PM Re: "How Bad Are They?"

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Do you really believe that's what Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya amount to? I dont. But I also don't think that Jeff Wilpon isn't putting and won't continue to put his very heavy and clumsy hands on the scale. Moe, Larry and Curly may have been harsh, but a troika with no clear delineation of who's in charge is an invitation for Jeff and his clumsy hands.